Irish fur farm raid footage

by Conor - ucdSA Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:09 Conor at ziplip dot com

Fair play to the alf. great stuff. it nice to see them operating out of ireland - god only knows animal welfare is fucking terrible here. theres some shocking stuff on that website - checkout the slide shows.

direct action groups such as the alf really show up the "green" party. why dirty your hands when you can write a piece of leglislation and keep your 60+grand a year td job.

Does anyone know if the gards went after the alf crowd, or did they manage to get away?

C

by Aidan Hehir - Green Party Tue Oct 14, 2003 14:23 aidanhehir at hotmail dot com

Its a pity that a news item on Indymedia is once again hyjacked by some disgruntled observer desperate to critisise some group or party. It amazes me that anyone could read this post and immediately think, "I know what I'll do, I'll have a go at the Green Party". Aside from the fact that the Green Party has a better record on animal rights then any other party in Ireland, this kind of negative and divisive activity contributes nothing to the resolution of immoral practices and serves only to stroke the ego of the author. Personally speaking, I am a vegan and a member of the Vegan Society, the Irish Vegetarian Society and the Irish Wildlife Trust and I am quite certain that the Green Party is concerned about animal rights. Perhaps Conor belives that the GP only comprises our six TD's and thats why he belives we are all on 60 grand a year. That is far from the case. In addition, though its not the popular thing to say in certain circles, in many instances affecting change at the legislative level can be more effective then direct action, though sadly it has often taken direct action to highlight abuses before there is any move to change legislation. My advice to Conor would be to try and be constructive rather than one of the countless bitter snipes that devote their days to raging against the Greens the Socialist Party and Sinn Fein on indymedia. If you want to do something then join the campaign to stop the state sponsored cull of badgers in Ireland that has already killed up to 30,000 animals in the past ten years. The IWT link is below...

by Conor - ucdSA (Slangin At) Tue Oct 14, 2003 17:47 Conor at ziplip dot com

Heres my point dude:

another party , another line. go suck a fuck.

The green party shies away from any form of direct action (of the non petition signing type - or even the petition signing type). for example , in ucd the green party in the last year did thus:

1) set up a stall in freshers week.
2) pissed off for the year unttil.... they helped clean litter with college services in late april.

(and an agm somewhere in between i suppose).

this is in the year when fees were introduced, in a year when the college was found to have (mistakingly?) gotten rid of chemical waste in non-approved sites, when war was brought upon iraq - a war for oil (im sure ucd greens did turn up for a nice march on feb 15 along with 100odd thousand other punters, although it wouldnt surprise me if they diddnt). the greens in ucd have not played an active role in the cfe (did they even play a role?).

on a national level , it supports an unjust double tax , where, my 1 kg of waste will cost me the exact same (not in relative terms) as any multi millionaire property developers waste. etc ....

i would like to think otherwise, but the green brand will sell to many young prople, and so our greens will go down the german road.

so please forgive me Aidan Hehir if i read of the couragous efforts of the alf and contrast them with those of the "green" party. it did smack me in the face.

your use ofthe word hi-jack and hi-ace are also well out of line.

id also love to hear of the greens record on wildlife (its the best of any party in the counrty!) - those parties being who exactly ? fianna fail fine gael labour etc?

sounds a bit lame, the whole "party political" element when if you bothered yourelf to get up off your todd to do as the alf, youd certainly achieve more than piling pieces of paper on some ministers express lane to the shredder.

groundwork does sound like a laugh, and i may well join the iwf. ill take my direct action on my bike and in my mouth, in my little boat. i dont have the guts of the alf, at least i dont pretend to.....

by Aidan Hehir - Green Party Tue Oct 14, 2003 18:11 aidanhehir at hotmail dot com

Scarcely has a better comeback been uttered, nor has a more coherent argument been so succinctly condensed, then in the phrase "go suck a fuck". I marvel at your command of English and I bow down unconditionally to anyone who can write with such subtlety, style and moral authority…..
My interest in the activities of the UCD Greens is minimal though I hope you will continue to impartially observe them with such gusto and relate their activities to all interested parties.
The Green Party has nothing to be ashamed of in terms of its activities in the Anti-War campaign and the Limerick Branch was particularly active through the work of Ed Horgan and Tim Hourigan. Your blinkered focus on the UCD Greens has clearly clouded your better judgement…

There is an ongoing debate as to the best methods to employ to effect radical change in Ireland. There is a great deal of validity in saying that party politics is not the way to go and that those that choose this route will necessarily become compromised. I do not subscribe to this view though I accept that there are more examples of compromise then there are of consistency.

However, I have never read the argument against party political activity so coherently and thoughtfully articulated as in your paragraph which reads…
"sounds a bit lame, the whole "party political" element when if you bothered yourelf to get up off your todd to do as the alf, youd certainly achieve more than piling pieces of paper on some ministers express lane to the shredder"

Powerfully put....

by caff Tue Oct 14, 2003 18:28

I am completly against the fur trade and agree it should be banned here, however I'm curious to know what the impact is to local wildlife when so many predatory animals are released all of a sudden. Mink mainll eat freswater fish but are also known to often attack hen houses at night. They also eat a lot of young duck or other water birds.

by Conor - ucdSA Wed Oct 15, 2003 14:59 Conor at ziplip dot com

Go suck a fuck is one of my all time fav expressions. it features in the big lebowski.one of the nihalists shouts it in the backround.

Tim H s actions at shannon were an example to the greens.thats because they are actions. i dont follow them on campus, because there is nothing to follow , they do nothing, they dont get involved politically, practically (apart from that litter cleanup in april), or even socially.

thats my local green branch, apart from that i can only judge them nationally, for which they have a terrible record on the issues outlined.

_______________________________-c

by Aidan Hehir - Green Party Wed Oct 15, 2003 16:33 aidanhehir at hotmail dot com

Thanks for clearing that up Conor. I now see where the rationale for using that phrase comes from.
The nihilists in the Big Lebowski are indeed figures of such commanding philosophical authority that it is only natural to quote from their lexicon of epigrams. I believe another one of their more memorable sound bites was "Its not fair", I'm sure you have used that to similarly devastating effect.
I would love to read your justification for saying the Greens have a "terrible record" on animal rights. Either you became over excited and wrote more emphatically then you might have meant to or you are just saying something that sounds vaguely plausible to which you can offer no justification. I suspect it is the latter...

The point about the minks impact on the local animal population is very valid and I would be interested to hear whether measures were taken to insure that this sudden introduction of a predator was legislated for in advance..

by Conor - ucdSA Wed Oct 15, 2003 20:05

"if you will it dude, it is no dream"

im surprised youve failed to pick up on the nihalists technopop origions,or their most enlightened phrase "were going to cut off your JOHNSON"

heres my point dude, heres my point..... the other lebowski, jeffrey lebowski

ive no intention on reading the greens wildlife policy, im sure its nice, well put together, well researched, and should 700 odd thousand irish people decide to vote green in the next election - 4 - more years of cruelty down the line,then it will make for wonderful practice.

until then, and in the not so unlikely event that ryan cuffie and co dont get another 75 tds in the next election, thats all it will remain. a policy document, drawn up by a nicelypaid up td an a nice officd. savvy.

meanwhile ... people are doing direct actions
meanwhile ... we put five pounds in the iwm coffers each week
meanwhile ... people pay an unjust double tax
meanwhile ... greens on campus listen to and do sfa
meanwhile ... we wait

ah thats interesting, thats interesting

am i wrong?

(p.s. like my alter ego walter sobcheck, i am not a vegan, so i stink of...)

by ollie - katalyzer Thu Oct 16, 2003 00:34

wow conor ,or is it konor, I've never seen u go off on one quite as far out as this one. I mean, I've seen the pink wig wif the shades, but his oasif-style persona suits you _even_better.

my my

However, not all direct action is good direct action. Remember that. ALF are supra-fundamentalists, and have no idea of nature's balance. Unlike u, konor, I am a veggie (that's twice I've ended up sayin that in the last 10 mins on indymedia...what's goin on) but I'm not _just_ a veggie. I see the probs with factory farming, sure, but also ,food miles, food waste, organic meat vs. GM soya, the list goes on. THe world is far more complex than mostly urban animal right activicts seem to be able to get their heads around. In fact, I'm a post veggie...who doesn't eat meat...but its a long story. I suppose the point is that veggie style ethics need to inform the entire food world. supra-Veggies can lead to 'footwear courtesy of the petro-chemical industry, proudly supporting the next oil war'. Not always, but often.

predator species released unchecked cause suffering. In fact, they are _precisely_ the reason why no small organic chicken farmer can be fully free-range, but instead a sort of barn fed.

Now, conor, it's time to put the spliff down, the ash is clogging up your key-bored anyway.........

by hippie basher Thu Oct 16, 2003 04:02

"THe world is far more complex than mostly urban animal right activicts seem to be able to get their heads around"

"Now, conor, it's time to put the spliff down, the ash is clogging up your key-bored anyway......... "

Ollie,your one to talk....

by Conor - PuffPuff Thu Oct 16, 2003 09:57

Could have fooled my. My party have all the answers.

Cough cough.(supa dub fly remix)

you want to play yoyo? I dont Smoke anything really, apart from beer mats when the conversation is poor.

i went over the top.

i just dont like people with a line. i hate my line. C

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