sep 11-remembered in ireland (+NYC RCN feedback)

by solemnly remembering the Dead and their chances. (iosaf) Sat Sep 11, 2004 22:12

New York City
Washington DC
Afghanistan
Bali
Iraq
Turkey
Madrid
Indonesia
Russia

more have died than ever will have a respectful grave, a name carved in stone,
or ever had reasonable cause to fear for their lives in the conflict between the USA and Islamic Fundamentalism.

Heroin however has been uneffected in production, cost or supply.

Thanks be to Allah the Great that there is still something to take away the pain of the living.

The majority of those who have gone to Heaven didn't use Heroin nor were conscious of the importance Oil plays in their lives.

The majority of those who have died in that long list of places were Muslim of whom the clear majority did not die in circumstances of jihad or martydom so were not guaranteed a place in Heaven.
Then - Jewish, leaving the Palestinian related suicide bombers aside, Jewish deaths occured in Turkey and Bali and Madrid.
then - Catholic. (Roman and Orthodox catholics sharing third place in the death toll)
Mormons have suffered amongst the 1000+ war casualties in Iraq and were amongst those killed in the Pentagon in Washington DC.
The Episcopalians have accounted for most of British (and former british territories) deaths.
Presbyterians come in a close seventh to Baptists (at sixth religious denomination) and their deaths are mostly concentrated in the first months (Sept 11 and Bali).
Buddhists have only suffered one death but life is suffering and death is release.
There have been no native american deaths reported.

A great number of the Dead, chose not to be registered as practising a recognised global religion, nor lived in a State which favours one religion or disallows citizenship to other religions. These people accordingly just "go to the Light" (just like you see in the movies).

Thank you Dunk and crew for so thoughtfully demonstrating where we all stand on this, and providing the US Marines and Garda Siochana with so poignant a display of our common Western culture- a good shake of the Native American Dream catcher and a bit of Harp playing.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker/Pit Stop PLoughshares Sun Sep 12, 2004 14:26 087 918 4552

Saturday's (Sept. 11th.) anti-war presence and memorial at Dublin's U.S. Embassy kicks off a weekly presence at the embassy leading up to a return to Shannon Airport on Haloween.

An anti-war vigil will be conducted each Monday 5pm-7pm through September & October - all welcome! We will read names of war dead as part of our presence outside the embassy.

DCW & PSP events are always invitational not obligational - so should you receive a text or email from us about an event receive it in that spirit.

DCW/PSP events are always multi faith/no faith and commited to a nonviolent discipline. At Saturday's event there were 4 Catholic Workers and seven freinds expressing no faith base. In repsonse to Isoaf's concerns we are reluctant to employ other folk's symbols (Koran, Buddhist stupers etc.) without their presence. When we do we will use max sensitivity. We hope the Buddhist monks of Nippon Myohoji will be present at our trial and other events as they have in the past.

Symbols worn by others on Saturday included www.counterpunch.org, anti-Bush and a Motorhead t-shirts.

It felt like a moving and significant event.

by moonwolf Sun Sep 12, 2004 22:49

Good to see the christian cross being reclaimed as a spiritual symbol. Like all symbols it is easily hijacked. In the case of the cross by the likes of the crusaders of old and the more modern day anti islamics such as bush jnr /blair who would like to justify their war on Islam by decietfully allying themselves with Christianity.


Peace be upon all those who have died in these conflicts.

by alex Mon Sep 13, 2004 02:59

To insult a country's loss of 3000 civilians just so you could make apoint about your politics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by moonwolf Mon Sep 13, 2004 03:42

Where is the insult in remembering the dead?

if it had been an event in support of the continuing mass murder of civilians by a discredited U.S president/U.K Prime minister to get their point across would you have supported it?

The true insult is the continuing pretence that the 3,000 deaths had nothing to do with decades of U.S imperialism in the Middle East. The deaths are the effect - why not consider the cause?

Even a child understands that if you kick a dog enough it will bite back, yet the U.S thought they could act with impunity in their oppression of the peoples of the Middle East(and indeed the whole planet)So alex, when the dog bites back who is really to blame?

By the way alex, September the eleventh is the anniversary of another act of terrorism, the murder of the democratically elected leader and overthrow of the Chilean Government by the C.I.A.

Remember Salvador Allende?

read about him
www.neravt.com/left/allende.htm

by Elaine Mon Sep 13, 2004 04:59

I couldn't make it to the vigil on Saturday but I lit a candle and listened to the audio report of the names of the dead being read out. ( Thanks for that Dunk ) Somebody on the report was asking how many civilians in Iraq had been killed since the start of the war. I did a little trawl and came up with these...

Iraqi victims of war: Fact sheet

"We don't do [enemy] body counts," General Tommy Franks, commander of US forces in Iraq during the war, famously said when answering a question from reporters.

Taken from Aljazeera.net where the estimated casualty counts run to five figures.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F37A5384-E7C8-4EAD-8262-1727833C32B8.htm

However the website http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ seems a bit more accurate and reports the minimum number of dead at 11797 and a maximum number to be 13806. Unfortunately, this site is updated regularly.

by righteous pragmatist Mon Sep 13, 2004 20:12

Wouldn't have anything to do with Al-Qaida bombings?
Al-Sadr and his band of thugs?
Baath party lunatics?
Foreign Arab jihadists?

why haven't more died?

Because the US army and the Iraqi defence forces are trying to protect the Iraqi people.

10,000 Iraqi soldiers died March-April 2003 fighting to prevent the end of one of the most brutal regimes of the 20th century - Saddam Hussein and his evil Baath Party.

America have lost 1,000 brave soldiers and will bring democracy to Iraq -elections next January will make it assured.

Afghanistan was a terrorist base with the blessing of the Taliban, the second most odious regime in the world after Saddam.

Now that is no longer so - democratic election will begin in October.

3,000 people died in New York and Washington - both cities and America refused to yield and will NEVER yield.

You people scream and cry all you want
- you freedom is our gift to you for which we ask for nothing.

Thank God people like you can be dissidents.

In the Middle East where tyrants and fanatics plan your death every day they allow no such dissent.

by Elaine Tue Sep 14, 2004 00:52

Because it is considered acceptable in this crazy world to take the life of a fellow human if the cause can be justified and then believed by the majority.
It has happened before. Until we learn to love our enemies and not let pride or egoism rule our actions or greed dictate our course, it will happen again.

Atrocities

by Siegfried Sassoon

You told me, in your drunken-boasting mood,
How once you butchered prisoners. That was good!
I'm sure you felt no pity while they stood
Patient and cowed and scared, as prisoners should.

How did you do them in? Come, don't be shy:
You know I love to hear how Germans die,
Downstairs in dug-outs. 'Camerad!' they cry;
Then squeal like stoats when bombs begin to fly.

And you? I know your record. You went sick
When orders looked unwholesome: then, with trick
And lie, you wangled home. And here you are,
Still talking big and boozing in a bar.

Published in War Poems, October 1919.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker/Pit Stop PLoughshares Tue Sep 14, 2004 01:01 087 918 4552

Yeah, say the party line three times and believe it. RP. Saves on exercising the neurons.

Today we gathered at the Embassy and remembered the children and jouralist massacred by U.S. forces on Sunday. As the U.S. occupation knows nothing draws a crowd in Iraq like a burning U.S. Bradley armoured vehicle. As the kids came out to surround the disabled Bradley after the U.S. troops driving it were rescued and the Arab media came to film it. U.S. helicopter gunships unleasehd rockets and weapons fire into the crowd killing a journalist and a number of children and civilians. That was yesterday...check the link for today's latest atrocity as reported in the mainstream media.

Righteous Pragmatist and the Bush cheerleaders - "THE HAVES AND THE HAVE-MORES" thrive on amnesia and spin. Two of us and five Garda gathered today at the embassy to remember the dead.

To vigil is to stay awake while society slumbers and children die.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker/Pit Stop PLoughshares Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:25

Article in today's (tuesday) Guardian G2 'zine section by Ghaith Abdul-Ahad a Guardian journalist injured in Sunday's attack.

by righteous pragmatist Tue Sep 14, 2004 13:51

"Because it is considered acceptable in this crazy world to take the life of a fellow human if the cause can be justified and then believed by the majority."

What is really crazy?

Al-Qaida, a movement who espouse violence in order to enforce a Neanderthal religion of misogyony, homophobia, blind obedience and medieval persecution on the entire World.

Your damn right it is justified to kill these fellow humans.

by dunk Tue Sep 14, 2004 16:58

this news has been reported to the NYC indymedia
just to let them know that were working in solidarity with them

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/121339/index.php

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker/Pit Stop PLoughshares Tue Sep 14, 2004 17:15 087 918 4552

You omitted
Al Qaida an organisation, trained, funded and set up to carry out U.S. foreign policy in Afghanisat in the 1980's

We are reaping...NYC 911, Madrid, Bali what you have sown 20 years ago.....

One can only guess what we will reap in the next 20 with U.S. military massacres a daily occurence in Iraq.

The U.S. military the same people who gave Oklahoma Tim McVeigh and DC the Washington Sniper.

by Elaine Wed Sep 15, 2004 00:16

>What is really crazy?

R.D. Laing in his book 'The Divided Self' comments...
"It is not uncommon for depersonalized patients, whether or not they are schizophrenic, to speak of having murdered their selves and also of having lost or been robbed of their selves."

What is self but an awareness of our own humanity and enough humility to recognise this self-same 'human condition' in another, no matter what man-made or incidental differences seem to divide us. ie, different colour, culture, religion, gender etc. A sense of self-worth, in a non-egotistical sense, allows us to embrace these differences and not feel threatened by them. Instead, to glory in the diversity of human life and experience and, more importantly, to hold all human life sacred.
So what is crazy? It is that which divides us from our humanity, alienates us from the human condition and by extension, alienates us further from our fellow humans. It is any ideology that suggests we have the right to take another life so that ours may be better. It is turning away when the opportunity to help presents itself. It is being complacent or complicit when the rights of another are violated for vested interests.
This anonymous quote sums it up. "Defence is ones duty, aggression is an act of madness."

>Your damn right it is justified to kill these fellow humans.

How is it justified? Because it feels right / because you are afraid of them / because someone told you so / as an act of revenge? Because in Al-Qaida's case they have bit the hand that fed them? Bad dog! If it is 'justified' to kill them now then why not under the Carter administration when they were the pawns used to de-stabilise the Russians in Afghanistan, and trained to that end? Is it because they have served their purpose and are now no longer needed?

People in Iraq are dying for an ideology not their own. There is no justification for murder but for those who try to, remember, you reap what you sow.

"You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, this is something you are free to do and is in accord with your nature, but perhaps precisely this holding back is the only suffering that you might be able to avoid." - Franz Kafka

by moonwolf Wed Sep 15, 2004 00:19

R.P said:

"You people scream and cry all you want
- you freedom is our gift to you for which we ask for nothing. "

Actually our freedom was won through our resistance to the imperial aggression of Britain, just as Iraqi freedom will be won by the resistance of the Iraqi people to U.S Imperialist aggression.

by alexander Wed Sep 15, 2004 22:07 alexander at oniells dot ie

Well done, RNC protestors. You managed to turn a democratic state onto Bush. Please, please, please, go home.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/a/2004/09/15/politics1020EDT0551.DTL

by Homeboy Thu Sep 16, 2004 00:45

Alexander, We are home for fecks sake give the beads, blankets and Manhatten back and feck home yourself!

by Dublin Catholic Worker Thu Sep 16, 2004 22:56 087 918 4552

We have decided to move our weekly vigil from the U.S. Embassy to the Irish Aviation Authority, Dublin City Centre.

The vigil will take place each Monday 4pm-6pm at the Irish Aviation Authority, Burgh Quay, Dublin City Centre.

Our priority remains to nonviolently confront Irish complicity in the U.S. invasion, occupationa dn plunder of Iraq. The militarisation of Shannon Airport remains the most significant Irish contribution to this expanding slaughter.

We will return to Shannon Airport on Sunday Oct. 31st. We invite you to share this nonviolent journey with us.



http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66615

by anon - nothing Sat Sep 10, 2005 17:22 a at aaa dot com

Stop the illegal war!

The US PROPAGANDA MACHINE has done an excellent job at controlling public anger against the unjust Iraq war, in TOTAL contrast to the VIETNAM WAR.

The Vietnam war ended when the PUBLIC started protesting not at a DEAF government, but the people fighting the war (the NATIONAL GUARD). Having anger against the millitary helps ensure that reserves are down, and no PROFITTERING wars will HAPPEN in the short term.

A HATE CAMPAIGN needs to start against those who are willing to fight in an UNJUST WAR. However, this needs to be done in a NON-VIOLENT way.

Other nations (such as CHINA and RUSSIA) should CONDEMN this illegal war, and help out with propaganda AGAINST the US.

PROTEST against Millitary recruitment, and the armed forces.

DONT LISTEN to their propaganda about needing a STRONG ARMED FORCE. Force isn't needed when you HAVE NO ENIMIES

---
cut and paste this text and post it wherever possible. Only by spreading the word will the war stop

by dunk Sun Sep 11, 2005 13:09

anon
as you are cutting and pasting this piece everywhere can you post back here with the links to the spaces you have posted, im interested in seeing what other networks are out there
as done here
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71888#comment121031