Gardai enter home to confiscate Iraqi flag

by anne bonny Mon May 24, 2004 17:31

"A similar situation replayed itself two centuries later when the crown took to dealing opium in S.E. Asia to fund the building of Hong Kong. Some of those agents of the crown also reached positions of great power, others moved into the tea trade....

How come no-one on this site reckons drug dealers are cool?"

what the fuck are you talking about? How are the two situations similar? The only similarity is the involvement of the Crown. Talk about straw men.... That's the weakest argument i've seen in a long while

Where did i say that certain pirates attaining power was cool? Where did i say that trade was cool? In fact, i said that a positive aspect of piracy was its attacks on trade

Come on. I'm putting up a very weak argument here. There's holes all over the place. You don't need to make such ridiculous comparisons to show me up. for example, where are references, examples, any proof whatsoever that my argument is based on anything other than fantasy? (honestly, i can't really be bothered searching the net to provide proof for such a trivial point)

by anne bonny Mon May 24, 2004 17:20

when privateers becamed deemed as outlaws (in peace time), they became pirates.

I'm not saying pirates are great by definition, sure there were lots who were agents of the state, some also kept slaves, some ships were extremely homophobic (although overall a pirate ship was one of the safest places to be gay) etc.

But there were also a lot of anarcho-types. Radicals (eg. Diggers) who were exiled to the West Indies would often end up as pirates. Runaway slaves, mutinous sailors, etc. would often be attracted to piracy.

There's plenty of dodgy anarchists around nowadays ('anarcho-capitalists', deep ecology nuts etc.) but that doesn't mean we're all mental.

by Jim Hawkins Wed May 19, 2004 00:22

= agents of the (emerging proto) state

Privateers, initially an english breed, were the initial and also primary utilisers of the skull and bones. Privateers were also agents of the state. queen liz uno believing that attacks from any quarter on the enemies of the crown were in the best interest of the crown granted licences to loyal citizens to pillage ships of the spanish main provided that a (large) percentage of the proceeds went to the royal tresuary.

Of course that some privateers turned in poorer times to attacking ships of the crown but they were generally allowed to redeem themselves and occasionally even granted positions of power.

A similar situation replayed itself two centuries later when the crown took to dealing opium in S.E. Asia to fund the building of Hong Kong. Some of those agents of the crown also reached positions of great power, others moved into the tea trade....

How come no-one on this site reckons drug dealers are cool?

by anti capiatlist feminist anarchist pirates Tue May 18, 2004 13:42

And Ghrainne Mhoail...

by the ipsiphi - fighting it. Mon May 17, 2004 21:42

¿does that look like _your_ Iraqi flag?
now let's get honest here, ( [email protected] ) "the gards" how many of these offensive Iraqi flags are knocking around in Ireland???

by anne bonny Mon May 17, 2004 21:33

They fought the emerging trade system which would become capitalism, attacking slave ships and such. Plus there was a few 'pirate utopias' which were in keeping with anarchist thought.

But then i'm biased (anne bonny was a pirate)

by bored Mon May 17, 2004 21:15

end the arguement easily by stating that nazi flags are an incitement to racial hatred, so they can be acted against, but a warrant would still be needed.
the flag flown above was not an incitement to racial hatred so it should have been safe enough, incitement to riot is on shaky ground, although who knows maybe they were afraid a busload of those invisible roving international anarchists would see it an start a riot, maybe the guards believed those 'we are everywhere' stickers i saw about town.

by David Mon May 17, 2004 19:15

You believe that you are right, these nazis and racists believe that they are right. we might not agree, but if we start censoring them because we really don't like their point of view, then capitalists can start censoring us because they don't like what we have to say, and we can't object to it without hypocracy

The best way to combat racists and fascists is to attack their lies. if we attack their right to expression then they will just go underground and speak their sometimes convincing lies to vulnerable people who don't know any better.

by Naziwatch Mon May 17, 2004 19:00

So Ciaron you think that people have a right to fly flags with swasticas and slogans like 'keep ireland white' or 'burn all blacks' etc?

Flags are political symbols they can be used to insight hatred against minorities. they can also be used to demarkate ethnic territories - that's why I think it is wrong to fly tricolours or union flags on the street in the North. It is a symbols stating that 'this is a protestant/catholic area and others are not welcome'. The same is of nazi flags, if someone flew a nazi flag it is sending out the message to minorities 'you are not welcome here, go back to whereever'.

by Ciaron Mon May 17, 2004 18:45

Not into nation state flags myself. That one ain't a Baathists flag, saddam had an amendment to it.

You can't take away peoples right to wave what they want...'70's punks with swastikas etc...or you are starting to mimic the Nazis by restricting free expression etc.

Can't understand why peaceniks and anarchists are waving pirate flags (pirate - privateers etc) looked more appropriate on the U.S. war plane passing through Dublin recently.

by jeff Mon May 17, 2004 16:13

Get sent to the Gulag if you say the wrong thing.

Now; flags

The debate on flags is thus; yer man was flying the flag in solidarity with people who got bombed by the shock and awe of the US.

Thus, it was a flag of protest.

A Nazi flag is racially provocative. An Iraqi flag is not.

Therefore, anyone should be allowed to fly their flag, as long as it does not cause a riot. A flag with ' keep Ireland white' will set people off. An Iraqi flag is the flag of that country, unless you believe Paul Bremer's rag is whats hot.

The only people that flag insulted were a few beuracrats from Shrub's administration. I'll tell you one thing, the Gardai were a lot faster taking that thing down than they would be with a Nazi flag. Some guy with power and a suit told them to.

The Gards would only take down a Nazi flag if there was going to be a riot.

now drop dead red.

by observer Mon May 17, 2004 14:32

Brought to you by the people who are against all national flags except of course the Union Jack because they don't want to offend the poor backward loyalists of the 6 Counties.

The "absolutely disgusting" phrase gives you away! Someone get Kevin a Thesaurus

by Sean Kennedy Mon May 17, 2004 14:31

Look lads, it's not which flag he flew that is the point here, but the guy's right to fly a flag in his own back garden. The cops had no right to take it down or to enter his premises in order to do so.

I don't like Brit flags, US flags or that silly blue EU yoke, but I don't go climbing into the hotels or private homes that have them up. I know the treatment I'd get from the law if I did. Good on ye Tony!

by Denis Mon May 17, 2004 14:27

Looks like the logo of the Chorus multi-channel television company.

by Biz Mon May 17, 2004 14:17

All national flags symbolise oppression. Especially this one...

And the new US hand picked Iraq Administration national flag

by John Jefferies Mon May 17, 2004 13:44

The flag flown was an Iraqi flag, not a B'aath flag. Saddam Hussein added some words. The B'aath Party flag contained some writing in Arabic added by Saddam Hussein. I have no problem flying a red flag, and have often done so, but this flag was there temporarily to make a point on the war and occupation of Iraq. Incidentally here's some more pictures of other Iraqi flags.

Iraqi flag introduced in 1963 - as flown in Cork last week

Iraqi flag 1924-1958

Iraqi flag 1958-1963

by Red Mon May 17, 2004 13:15

"Gardai do not have the right to enter property without a goddamn warrant. Do not let stupid people win."

You're the stupid person for sowing illusions in the bourgeois legal system. Cops will do whether they want as long as they can get away with it.

I reckon there should be laws about flying flags, If my neighbour hoisted a flag in his front garden that had a swastika and a slogan like 'keep Ireland White' on it I would want that flag to come down.

The flag that was flown was a Baathist flag. It is the flag of Saddam Hussein, it is not the flag of the Iraqi people.

by jeff Mon May 17, 2004 13:10

Gardai do not have the right to enter property without a goddamn warrant. Do not let stupid people win.

there is no law against any flag flying. Next time any government agency wants to trample on constitutional freedoms in this way, may they fall off the roof and break their necks.

by Red Mon May 17, 2004 13:02

Why the hell are you flying a Baathist flag in anyhow?

Saddam's regime was absolutely disgusting and should not be supported even against US Imperialism.

You should fly a red flag not an Iraqi one

by Ali la Pointe - fu-fighting anti-imperialistas Mon May 17, 2004 12:59

I'm sure he was pleased!