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dublin |
summit mobilisations |
news report
Sunday May 02, 2004 14:42
by redjade
printable version
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Comments (35 of 35)
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Black Bloc
Jesus Bloc
Womble Bloc
anarchy-ism vs SWooPism
.
into the Red Zone...
.
decision time.
moment of decision...
incitement-guy appears at front line
push and shove
riot troops move in for back-up
.
quick retreat by Garda, Riot Troops to the front line of battle
Water Canon moves in
the battle for the street begins
.
Rory Hearne (AEIP) & Lawrence Cox (DGN) Pleads to Crowd to Pull Back to a Safe Distance
Starhawk & Co with Peace Drums while Battle Continues...
and the Battle Continues.
.
Dispersal
Waiting a few blocks away in the back streets of the neighborhood (things could have been worse)
Does anyone know who that incitement guy was?
i hav a lot of tape of him & his actions, any1 know anything about him?
Apparently nobody from Grassroots or IMC knows him. According to frontline participants in the pushing, he was hitting police and doing his best to provoke others to do the same. The police, although they had many chances, did not choose to arrest him. Was he one of the 'infiltrators' that the police told us about? Were they trying to provoke a riot?
one was wearing a brown leather jacket a balaclava with a white cloth underneath. tried to insight violence before we got anywhere near farmleigh. Another suspicious person seemed to turn up near the end of the march, was wearing a mask and what looked to me like a radio headset underneath though maybe i was being paranoid.
http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/may2004/may_press_1.jpg
he's not a cop. i've met him a few times and he's just a bit of asshole.
They are gobshites that are burning the SWP leaflet. Surely the Grassroots Network is all about respecting different views. What's wrong with the SWP having their say and handing out their leaflets. I'm certainly not a fan of theirs but I do respect their right to participate in the movement.
There seems to be an intolerant attitude from some in the Anarchist movement. There is all talk of tolerance and diversity, but ye seem to have tolerance and diversity so long as it complies with certain values that you hold.
The SWP are on the left, they are anti-war, they are anti-privatisation. They are against the EU (which some on the march last night were not, I know of one person there who voted for Nice).
of not undermining any other groups in public (When we issue press releases or speak to the media).
There are individuals who for many reasons don't like the SWP as an organisation. I would count myself amongst those people.
Whoever burnt the leaflets did so in a personal capicity as is their right to do so.
Hi, just wondering did anyone else notice the massive activites at the nearby McKee army barracks, there was several hundred soliders in formation inside the gates as well as a armoured tank like yoke full of them too, I took some poor quality pics of this on my camera phone, but was then told by the gate solider and the gardai that what I was doing was illegal. Did anyone else see this? And have proper pictures?
an anonymous poster ("anyone") tells us he's not a garda but doesn't say who he is.
very amusing. I'm sure you can do better than that lads.
Seriously, what is Hearne doing there? Who invited him along?
SWP are authoritarian socialists. They do not organise openly, democratically, and non-hierarchically. Example of such? "Another Europe is Possible" (i.e. Rory Hearne's mouthpiece) managed to squeeze out a press release around 11pm on Saturday night.
Now, if they were REALLY a coalition of diverse groups, like they so claim, then putting together a press release with the consultation of all involved members would take a while. At least until the next day.
But it just meant Rory running to a computer (while most people were still on the Navan Rd) and typing whatever came into his head. AEIP is a ONE MAN BAND - and just as crap. Makes lots of noise but ultimately no timing, no rythym, no class.
Incidentally if you were wondering where the 3 flags and the dozen paper sellers disappeared to, they ran away when anarchists told them to fuck off. They tried to get people to march away but people ignored them, and they vanished into the distance, forgotten by everyone...
Sorry we missed the 2 hours of speeches at the Central Bank lads, but people were busy doing real direct actions during the day. All talk and no action makes Jack a very bored little boy. Sorry we missed your "carnival" as well, as much diversity as a bag of crisps.
They are withering away in this country at last... 15 years after their nonsense was rejected by people in eastern europe for the fraud it really is...
when i saw him earlier on the march, he seemed awful pissed. of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't a cop (maybe he had to pluck up courage or summink) but he coulda been some random wanker.
there definitely seemed to be 'infiltrators' trying to cause trouble up the front though, as well as the armoured uniformed scum of the state who were obviously dying for a (dirty) fight.
Cowards and scumbags the lot of them
It seems that it is the Anarchists who are the real authoritarians. AEIP never said you had to comply with their politics to go to their march. Howevber with the Grassroots socialists are not welcome, hardly very grassroots and democratic.
you guys are pathetic fools.
i don't want to get into a stupid argument about this but incitement guys name is paddy and he works in a factory.
come down to ncad su sometime and meet him yourself, he's in there all the time.
i have no doubt that there were plain clothes guards infiltrating the crouds but to suggest that one of them was hitting
his collegues and telling others to do the same while piss drunk is just stupid.
dont be paraniod.
The bit with the person in black burning the SW paper made me do a double take. It's a keeper for me just because... maybe the SW weren't on the frontline or something?
.
indymedia.ie, better than the rest, bang up job and all that bla bla...
Would you ever give it a rest you crowd of wankers.You will change nothing because every poxy little pathetic protes you have only makes people like me who like freedom,capitalism, individualism more determined.Go piss off and get your handouts somewhere else as I'm tired paying taxes to support you useless crowd of twats.Its apity there were any cameras at your tiny gathering, and its also a pity the Gardai have to be so restrained, I would use live ammo on any smelly crusty that tells me I do'nt pay enough tax. I wish welfare was abolished so you wankers might actually see what its like to work. I know some witty aloof pseudo intellictual rebuttal will follow, I don't care. I know none of you are graduates of any course worht persuing, post your names and college graduation dates if you dare.Well done Bush, wish there were more like you, and I wish we had leadership like him.What do you dickheads know about war, most of you would be incontinent if faced with any decent agression.I will meet any of you useless piles of shite anytime to let you know my views up close.come all you crusty cowards.
Most people in the Grassroots are good decent activists. The march to Farmleigh was a very good march, apart from the Gardaí giving us all a shower. However there are idiots who are anti-democratic and far from non-hierarchical.
Those twats that burnt the SWP leaflet are some of these peope. The SWP (and ANYONE else) have the right to go to that protest. Surely this is fundamental to open democratic public protests! OK, you're not a fan of the SWP, neither am I. But WHO GIVES YOU THE RIGHT to tell them to "fuck off"
What's wrong with Rory Hearne writting a press release? There is a thing called a phone that you can use to consult other groups before you put out the press release. What about DGN press releases. You didn't all sit down and write it! It was a task delegated to other people.
Like them or not the fact is that the SWP are anti-privatisation, anti-capitalist, etc. They are on the left. They have a different vision of society and different tactics. What's so wrong with DIVERSITY IN THE MOVEMENT.
I saw this guy on the way back to town eyeballing and giving the finger to freestaters and later trying to manually uproot a set of traffic lights and a street sign. The level of intelligence on display suggested he was filth but I reckon he was just an idiot, probably suffering from Henry Rollins syndrome.
Oh and keyboard hardman "Mick", - we are all shitting it here with you brave offer to take us out. If you can take a break and stop tugging yourself in front of your PC for , come down to the next left demo, identify yourself and back up your rant you sad sack of shite. Look forward to seeing you.
I've been giving out political leaflets for years and its a fact of life that some people who don't agree with the contents will seek to demonstrate this by tearing them up, throwing them on the ground or handing them back. It's no big deal, indeed if there is a 'right' to give out a leaflet there is also a 'right' to make a point by destroying a leaflet you've been given.
Given that Rory had announced on NewsTalk106 that morning that the DGN march was cancelled so everyone should go on the AEIP instead I was surprised he didn't get a stronger response.
Joe, I take your point. There is every right for someone to burn the SWP leaflet, That doesn't stop them being idiots. People have a right to vote for FF, Labour, FG etc doesn't stop them being idiots.
It's an act that shows that they are not 'non hierarchical' or not respecting diversity in the movement. It's quite regressive to burn the leaflet of another left wing group. Read it, Agree or Disagree, then put in the recyling bin. Publicly burning it is idiotic and puts your tolerance of other views into question.
Yes I saw them. I left just before everything kicked off and went down Blackhorse Ave, and cycled into the complete riot squad waiting in vans around the corner.
I had a camcorder with me and went to take a shot but they screamed to shut the door (of the van).
There was also many groups of 8-10 guardi and I saw the activity in the barracks.
I didnt fancy my chances of aguing any civil liberties so I left.
Cian O'Callaghan is a Labour PArty hack and he voted in favour of the Nice Treaty and supports social partnership etc. Why is he the darling of the Grassroots group while the SWP are demonised
Cian O'Callaghan is a Labour PArty hack and he voted in favour of the Nice Treaty and supports social partnership etc. Why is he the darling of the Grassroots group while the SWP are demonised
The point is that all these SWP heads insist on handing out their papers and leaflets at every protest. Alot of ordinary people who don't know anything about the differences between DGN and SWP etc.... get very put off when handed what they see as communist literature at anti war marches etc... The anti war march of feb 2003 had over 150,000 people quite a large proportion of whom got very pissed of listening to socialist rhetoric from Ciaran Allen and equally pissed off with people handing them SWP leaflets. The fact is most ordinary people are ANTI WAR and for Global justice but they sure as hell don't want to be a part of a stalinist state. Cian O'Callaghan was present at the march. He wasn't handing out Labour party literature and as such is as welcome as anyone else. Stop using these protests to build your party you do more harm than good.
they spoke of free speech people who defend their right of free speech (but hate their guts stilll) say if we were to block them we would be the same as them
they do hold lots of good lefty ideas but they screw people over time and time again thats the problem i and many others have with them, ok theyre groups you won't work with cos you don't agree on enough things but you'll happily party with em but people hate the swp them cos the screw people over so much its nothing to do with freespeech , its nothing to do with lefty solidarity....
if a friend screwed you over as often as they do and continued to do so not a care in the world would you just stand there and let em do it?
What the SWP are devoid of is MUTUALITY...it's not even their Trotykist nightmare they want to impose on the world....it's their total lack of MUTUALITY...you don't accept that in football, relationships, wherever..unless you want to be a door mat.
They are the borg!
A few comments from someone who (a) wasn't there - and so I accept eyewitness accounts at face value and (b) being a nasty cynic when it comes to press and TV in this country, got all my "media" coverage of Saturday via this site rather than the mainstream media.
From my experience of growing up in Belfast in the 70s, what happened on Saturday was no way a riot. Being crude about it, you need an open space across which to throw missiles - with people right up against the cop lines, you get push and shove but not a riot.
Which begs the question: why did the cops escalate from yellow jackets to full riot gear when there was no actual riot in progress? The ordinary cops would easily have kept people out of the park, it's not as if they were outnumbered. There was absolutely no need to go OTT on it. If the ordinary cops were getting attacked with bottles, etc, they could just as easily have put on helmets (I'm assuming that if the hundreds of cops I saw at Parkgate St at 8o'c on Saturday had helmets on their belts then their buddies on the Navan Road did too).
However, those who tried "forcing" their way through the cop lines were nothing more than posturing idiots. Kicking a riot cop's shield may do wonders for your ego, but it does nothing for the innocent bystander who later gets batoned by the riot cop in question. Yes of course in an ideal world the guardians of the peace would be trained in Gandhi-esque patience and innocent bystanders wouldn't get a drubbing, but this is the Irish cops we're talking about - put a gorilla in a helmet and boiler suit and he's still a gorilla. So in effect all the Black Bloc posers did was provoke a hiding for others - not their intention obviously, but not exactly a great way to display concern for your fellow-protestors' wellbeing.
As for calling on a megaphone for people to move back from the cops when it was already too late...well that was a bit lame, wasn't it? 2000+ people with whistles, drums, pots and pans, police sirens, shouting and chanting (just going by the videoclips) and that genius expected to be heard? Maybe if he'd borrowed Motorhead's PA he might have had a chance.
Brief aside re the water cannon: who was driving it, Garda or RUC? Just a thought... (And fair play to the two kids with the Peace banner standing in front of the truck in one of the photos. Very Tiannemen Square and a zillion miles more gutsy than the Black Bloc idiots.)
As for the bloke that's been dubbed "incitement guy": again, just going by the photos, who's to say he wasn't just some random nutter with his own agenda? Since when does everyone on a 2000-person protest have to know everyone else and understand their motives in detail? You can't go branding every stranger whose actions you don't like a "provocateur" - if that was the case, who's to say half the lads in black with face-masks weren't "provocateurs"? If you allow that level of paranoia to creep in, you'll soon be insisting on protestors wearing numbers so they can identify each other.
In summary, fair play and hats off to all those who went to protest and make their point, but who did so in a spirit of realism, humour, honesty and bravery. Unfortunately, there's not enough of you (yet) that you can afford the kamikaze tactics of your anarcho pals. But I might just be tempted to dig out my marching boots for when Dubya comes to town.
''As for the bloke that's been dubbed "incitement guy": again, just going by the photos, who's to say he wasn't just some random nutter with his own agenda? Since when does everyone on a 2000-person protest have to know everyone else and understand their motives in detail? You can't go branding every stranger whose actions you don't like a "provocateur" - if that was the case, who's to say half the lads in black with face-masks weren't "provocateurs"? If you allow that level of paranoia to creep in, you'll soon be insisting on protestors wearing numbers so they can identify each other.''
- - - - -
Just as a point of information - I labeled him 'incitement guy' and not 'Agent Provocateur' for the reason you mention - i do not know.
He was certainly stiring sh*t up, on purpose, with intent and was pushing the gards hard, at one point pushing his elbows and hands in their faces trying to break through police lines.
the guy was totally arrestable - no doubt about this. I do not know, but i do not believe he was arrested since I saw photos of him in the papers after the time I took his photo.
Yes, perhaps he is just an idiot - and that why i labeled him a guy whoe was inciting.
who ever he was i do not believe much would have been different that night if wasn't there.
anyone else notice the bit in this comment about crusty's telling Mike to pay more taxes? Mike your obviously a "reasonable" person but get your facts straight before you launch into another tirade like that. I can sympathise with your plight, the idea that people might want a fair and equal world is obviously ridiculous, but these "unreasonable" people dont want to raise taxes, they want to get rid of them all together. Hope this information is of some use to you, you pompous wanker.