Left win SU elections in UCC

by John Sat Mar 20, 2004 14:21

Good news indeed. Can you tell us more about Frank's politics?

by cautious Sat Mar 20, 2004 14:29

Frank is a Labour party hack. His election on a seemingly combatitve ticket is a good development and will mean that he will be under pressure from the grass roots to take action and back up his rhetoric. But students in UCC shoudl just remmeber that he can't be completely trusted, they have to organise to put pressure on this guy.

by cautious about caution Sat Mar 20, 2004 18:04

Em, is he a "Labour Party Hack" or is he just a left-winger who happens to be a member of the Labour party? We heard the same thing said about Paul Dillon of UCD a year ago and experience has shown that doubts raised about his radicalism were entirely spurious. Dunno what the story is with this UCC fella, you could be perfectly right for all I know, but... does anyone have a little more light to shed on the matter?

by Dearbhla Sat Mar 20, 2004 19:18

I've taken a couple of quotes from Frank's website to give an idea of the left wing nature of his candicacy. Make no mistake Frank is not as left wing or radical as Paul Dillon. He comes from a traditional labour party background, has been a member of the party for years, is active on issues like the Irish language, and has reportedly moved to the left in recent years.

One thing is for sure - he's the most left wing president of UCC student's union in years.

"We need a President who is not afraid to take on the vested interests in UCC and who always finds the time to help individual students."

"Our Union must be open, transparent and accountable. It must be a Union that works from the grassroots up"

"USI – In general, I am in favour of USI (Union of Students in Ireland). I voted ‘Yes’ in the recent referendum...I believe the concept of an umbrella organisation protecting the interests of students on a national basis is a sound one.... However, all that said, USI has many problems; financial, organisational and the issue of it being relevant to students. I am very annoyed that USI has let itself become so badly run and managed. I would highly criticise the way in which it is trying to chop its executive committee down in size so severely. I believe USI as it stands now is in danger of dissolving if radical changes do not come about at this year’s National Congress. So how come I voted ‘Yes’? My view is that the only way an organisation can be changed is from the inside out. We are better off as part of that organisation when we (UCC Students) have a chance to change it for the better…remember, UCC is one of the biggest and most important players in USI. The issue of the €45,000 of student’s money being wasted on USI is nonsense when you consider the budget of the college as a whole runs into tens of millions of Euro. I believe we are better off in than out"

by Des Sat Mar 20, 2004 19:21

The official results are:

President
Frank Milling 1504
Ricky O Riordan 180
Lee Murphy 133
Micky Joe Griffin 113
RON 47
Spoiled 26

I've never heard of a candidate doing so well with 3 other candidates in the race and RON (except in the likes of North Korea of course!)

by Mary Sat Mar 20, 2004 19:29

Conor Flavin was also elected Welfare Officer. The result was:

Conor Flavin 1072
Jason Higgs 694
RON 111
Spoiled 134

Conor Flavin Elected

This is another great result for the left. Conor had been involved in the Earthwatch society in the college and has been involved in Gluaiseacht and took part in protests at Faslane.

It s great to see more activists getting elected to student unions around the country.

by Mick Sun Mar 21, 2004 15:04

I think we need to be clear on the nature of milling's 'landslide' - out of a student population of perhaps 15000 he garnered approx 10%. The vast majority of the student body did not give a toss. The original election date had to be changed as there were no nominations for a number of positions on the executive.

The people whom milling defeated included one (o'riordan) who ran as a joke, one pitiful FF hack (griffin) who ran on a platform which included reintroduction of fees, abolition of a number of SU positions, ending access programmes which facilitate students from poorer areas in reaching university - and who was recently involved in a discussion on local radio which led to assertions of his being racist, and one (Murphy) who had no policies whatsoever andd who based his postering campaign on the happy coincidence that he shares a name with a popular local brew. No doubt Milling is preferable to these specimens, but is he left-wing?

Frank Milling is a loyal Labour Party member and has been for some years - a fact he very carefully omitted from his election material. The only things I remember Milling doing in UCC are taking no position (as UCC LP head) on the invitation to David Irving, being one of two speakers at an EGM of the SU that same year to speak in support of the suspension of the SP,SWP,SF and Socialist societies which resulted from their actions in preventing the Irving meeting going ahead, and then presiding over an LP which opportunistically (and extremely inaccurately) advertised itself as the only socialist group remaining on campus. These are not the actions which I personally would consider "left-wing". It is of course possiblt that, as one poster here reports, Milling has moved to the left - I look forward to seeing whether this is the case. For a left-winger he was remarkably silent on the issue of the invitation which a UCC student society this year extended to a member of the BNP.

I am glad that Conor Flavin got elected - he seems well-meaning and has a good CV. I reserve judgement on the exec until we can see it in action. I especially can't wait to see how Milling involves the student body in the work of the union - or indeed if he tries.

I remember Dave McCarthy (was that his name?) being elected as president some years back. I would have considered him far more of a genuine activist than Milling, but he failed to involve the student body to an appreciable extent. I doubt Milling will succeed where he failed.

by observer Sun Mar 21, 2004 19:13

This guy is not the same as Paul Dillon. Paul Dillon was elected on quite a radical platform and was part of a large broad movement in CFE. This meant that Dillon could not really stray too far from the base that elected him. In any case Dillon was not really tested during the year, the government did not launch a major offensive against students.

This UCC guy as far as I can see was not elected as part of an activist group or has any real record of activism. All we know that he can spout some left rhetoric. The real test will come if and when fees are introduced.

by Cork student Sun Mar 21, 2004 19:18

This chap took no position on fascists speaking on campus. He also stayed silent while the SP and SWP societies were banned. His piece on USI does critisise them but it is quite weak critism, you'd hear something not too different off Archibald. The Lp are not a left wing party, they are a party of careerisits, middle class do-gooders and trade union bureacrats.

by Frank Milling Mon Mar 22, 2004 21:36

I was appreciative of the supportive posts left on this board regarding my win, and I read very carefully the ones that were critical.

So, let's cut to the chase. Am I an activist? In short, yes, but not to the extent that 'Mick' has been over the many years of his own political involvement with the left.

My main activism lies with trying to preserve Irish, our national language, and forcing the government to give it offical working status within the EU. To that end, I organised a public meeting in UCC on February 18th, 2004 which was attended by 160 people and addressed by 3 lecturers from the Irish Dept. (one being the Head of Dept.) and by the Director of Ionad na Gaeilge Labhartha. This meeting was organised by An Chuallacht (The Irish Society) in UCC, of which I am this academic year's Postgrad Representative. We agreed that we would protest in Dublin before the end of April and we are still trying to contact the other college societies and other interested individuals to organise this. I have attended numerous rallies and meetings in Cork on the same topic. I am currently reading for a Masters in Irish in UCC. My activism on that matter nor indeed my love for my language should not be in question.

When David Irving, the revisionist historian and man of far-right beliefs, was invited to UCC in 1999, I was Chair of Labour Youth at the time and supported his arrival and permission to speak. Others in the branch were against the idea and were quite entitled to be. I make no qualms about this. To debate against such a racist in a debating chamber would have provided a good opportunity to debase his disgusting theories. He eventually didn't arrive, staying in his hotel room due to safety reasons. The SP, SWP and others tried to barge their way into the debating chamber having beaten their way past UCC security and I along with several others physically stopped them by barricading the doors. The guests who had arrived, and there only about 60 or 70 of them, were asked to leave and the meeting was cancelled.

In the wake of what happened, as a member of the SU in UCC (Oifigeach na Gaeilge/Irish Officer), I, amongst others, spoke against the socieites in question and was in favour of banning them from campus for the remainder of the academic year for offences including breaches of the peace, which duly happened. I would do it again and I absolutely make no apologies regarding that.

The proposed arrival of a representative from the BNP earlier this year rekindled all those memories again in the Labour Youth branch. A majority of those in the branch felt that the original course of action I had taken was the correct stance and agreed that they would attend the meeting. I personally believe in free speech. I personally believe in tackling a person with warped or twisted views face to face in a debating chamber where I can devalue and contradict his views in public - not just close my ears and eyes and pretend he doesn't exist. That's where the problems start, I believe. In the end, he didn't come to the meeting because security and UCC authorities bowed to the veiled threats of the far-left and the Shinners. A shame, really, considering he would have been hammered (in an intellectual sense) by the crowd who had intended to go to the debate.

If anyone queries my left-wing position, hopefully this answer will clear a few things up; if not, sorry. I am a Social Democrat and a moderate. It's not my problem if anyone has issue with that. That is well known within Labour Party circles and beyond. I am not a Socialist. I have been active in the party since I was 17. I'm now 23, 24 in April. Read my policies in relation to what I want to do for UCC SU when I take up my presidency next July if you want to question how far left I am. I am annoyed that I have been referred to as a 'hack'. I have my own independent, thinking mind and I do not follow the flock so keep your personal remarks to yourself. It is true that I am not as radical as Paul Dillon, but I respect what he has done for UCDSU. I am going to deliver a more open and transparent Union next year. Again, check my policies.

If anyone wants to query me on any issue, email me at

[email protected]

and I will endeavor to reply asap.

Centre-Left Regards

Frank

PS It is great that Conor Flavin got elected as Welfare Occier, hopefully we can push the Fair Trade agenda, which I also believe in, a lot further. And other reports about me being the first Labour president in UCC are inaccurate - I believe the very last one was a chap called Scully elected in 1992. I could be wrong though. But I am certainly the first president from the Centre Left elected to the Presidency since that time.

by Conor Flavin Mon Mar 22, 2004 23:29 conorflavin at ziplip dot com

I am delighted to be working on such a fine SU team next year. Like alot of many other inymedia whines it is important not to get caught in political ideology and theoretical world views. There is a job to be done in next years Union and that is to fully represent students, their educational and welfare needs. Apathy is the biggest problem all over societies today. Rampant consumerism has led to docility and sedate student populations. Through the formation of solidarity with UCC students first we can move forward with coherency and dynamism at a local and national level.

by uccarerightwingscum Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:28

Stop talking shite. Did you ever think that it may be the fact that SU officers are all disgusting right wing careerist hacks is the reason for student apathy?

For example in UCD when a left campaigning exec was elected this year saw a huge increase in activism. Over 500 in the library occupation for example, 4,500 voting in class rep elections....

by Centre-Leftist Tue Mar 23, 2004 16:05

[Ed. - title edited from all uppercase/caps by R Isible. Please don't do this. It's considered shouting. Thanks] I suggest you read his policies before you twist his words. Or maybe you can't read. The last post was taken totally out of context of the true depth of what Milling said - typical SWP rubbish. And he's not a democrat? Take a running jump boys - I think 75% of the vote is a fairly good mandate, don't you?

http://www.votefrank.com

by pat c Tue Mar 23, 2004 16:51

He takes pride in the fact that he acted as a bodyguard for the fascist David Irving and he wants the BNP to visit UCC. Actually I believe his bodyguard actions consisted of hiding behind the cops.

He also takes pride in trying to get the SP Society etc banned from UCC. If you are looking for scum, its a term better applied to this right wing hack Milling.

by Séamus Ó Ceallaigh - UCC SU Thu Mar 25, 2004 14:23 shamintherye at hotmail dot com

my name is Séamus Ceallaigh, Deputy President/Education Officer Elect of the UCC Students Union. The recent elections has seen 4 candidates of left of centre being elect, myself, frank Connor and Gearóid Breathnach elected as Publications/Communications officer. But that is not different form our other unions in the past. The difference of this Union is not political tendancies but of experience in college societies at the highest level that was not seen in previous unions. The reason is that politics in the general sense does not come in to Union politics in UCC. UCC perhaps more than any other college has been hit by political apathy particularily with regards our involvement in USI, this year our affiliation referendum did not reach the quorum of 10% of the total student population. it could be said that everyone is afraid of alining themselves to either the left or right in this college...The Far Right Canidate in this years presidential election only secured 113 votes.

Why is this?
Mainly because of the terrible performance of the political parties on campus in recent years. Labour were not existent when I came to college three years ago but have recently been revived and are doing well.
The far Left on campus are non-existent...and their only activity is to try and prevent other College Societys from holding meetings. They have tried to do nothing else.
I'll tell you honestly I am a defender of free speech. I was a member of the Philosoph committee last year as Finance Officer and I am utterly against the use of violence and the threat thereof to bring about ones objectives. That, in my opinion, is fascism and that is what the far-Left have done in this college both this year and in 1999. That is was not the societies that threatened this violence is why the societies can still exist on campus but threats were made by activists and the hypocrisy of this activists is unlimited.
That is my stance and the stance of successive unions and society's guild on the matter. You will not change our minds by calling us fascist protectors or far right. You must accept the situation as it is. The fact also remains that people in UCC as a majority would not be anti-free speech and have supported such action by society guilds.

Our aim next year is to run a more professional and pragmatic union. After attending congress this week I believe UCC SU is ome years behind other Collges such as UCD. I must say that although I did not aggree with everything that Paul and Aidan might have said I was hugely impressed by them and the rest fo their delegation and look forward to working with them in the future perhaps. I believe we can learn alot from them.

by Mick Thu Mar 25, 2004 15:31

Was slightly bemused in reading Millings´s post, where he refers to my "many years of activism on the far-left" or words to that effect - until I realised that he was (and is?) probably of the view that this Mick is in fact Mick Barry, SP main man in Cork and former member of Labour before the glorious victory of the LP Right that was the expulsion of the Militant.

Well Frank, I am not Mick Barry and to be honest I very much doubt he is overly concerned about you!

by Frank Milling Thu Mar 25, 2004 18:47

Firstly, sorry for confusing the two of you 'Mick'.

Secondly, I would like to back up and reiterate what Séamus had said about the Union in UCC. The college parties have been very weak this year and for a good few years past, in fact. Apathy in UCC is well known but no matter how much the 'far-left' try to stir things up in college, they get nowhere - and that is a fact. People see them for what they are; an annoyance.

I like the fact that we have most parties represented to some degree in UCC - that's healthy and it promotes democracy. I'm from a Labour background and I'm proud of that because of family tradition, but more than that; a deep belief in the aims of the party. I have already said that I am a Social Democrat. That puts me with the majority of people within my party. If you are an SP or a SWP member, you will obviously hold a different view to me on most things, but do not call me right wing. I am not on the right of the political spectrum even though my last posting seems to make you think I was. If you want to know what background I come from; well, my father works in Eircom climbing telephone poles and fixing lines and my mother works part-time in a local shop to help us make ends meet. We have no 'acres'. Read from that what you will.

I am in favour of free speech. I was in favour of letting Irving speak and I was in favour of letting the BNP speak - NOT because I want to see them get a foothold in Cork or indeed any part of Ireland, North or South, but because I believe that the proper way to defeat the DISGUSTING ideas of racial superiority and bigotry is in the debating chamber. We, as a mature and sensible society, should be able to freely debate these things in a free environment rather than bow to the wishes of the SP/SWP/SF/IRA and close our eyes and ears to what's happening. It's through ignorance like that that hatred and bigotry stems, not through dialogue.

You must also remember that the people who attend college debating societies are on the whole, reasonable, rational human beings, able to make up their own mind on matters of importance. It is not for any political party to dictate who they can and cannot debate on behalf of or against.

Let me set the record straight for any person reading this thread.

I am not a fascist apologiser.

I am a Social Democrat who believes in all that goes with it; healthy democracy, a strong student body and SU, proper medical and educational facilities and opportunities for all in our society and equality for all across the board, irrespective of race, religion, sexual orientation etc.

I am not right wing.

I ran against a Fianna Fáil candidate who wanted to shut down our medical centre, re-introduce fees, savage the SU by sacking the Sabbatical posts of Education Officer and Publications Officer and who publicised his campaign using pictures of George Bush, Margaret Thatcher, Arial Sharon and Henry Kissinger...oh yes...under the slogan 'The RIGHT choice'. I would ask all those who still doubt that I am not right wing to check out my website and check my policies http://www.votefrank.com

I will be President of an active Union, working from the grassroots up.

The other officers, the Sabbats in particular, are in the broad family of what you could call the 'centre-left'. We did not run any joint campaigns, but we were (and are) agreed that our Union must be more visible, more active on the ground, more open, transparent and accountable and more REPRESENTATIVE. How that's right wing, I just don't know. To that end, we will canvass, lobby, protest, get active and listen to students in order to be more representative and effective. We will protest when we need to (and I think we WILL need to) and we will do everything in our power to make the Union relevant. YES, we know apathy in a huge problem and we must tackle that. Plans are afoot and I urge you to keep an eye on UCC.

hope that has cleared up some things and answered some questions. Fell free to email me at

[email protected]

if you have any queris you want me to answer personally

Beir Bua

Frank

PS Yes, I am a moderate Nationalist/SDLP supporter, not a republican. And there's nothing wrong with loving your language and campaigning for it.

by Mick Mon Mar 29, 2004 14:16

For the record, the whole issue of whether the BNP should have been allowed to speak in UCC was debated out on the UCCSU messageboards:

http://su.ucc.ie/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=138&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

and

http://su.ucc.ie/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=144

between members of the UCC ssocieties guild and those opposed to the BNP invite (specifically a person who I suspect is a member of the SP).

Not much point in going over all that old ground again, eh Frank?

by Frank Milling Mon Mar 29, 2004 16:57

True Mick ,let's move on.

by Small College President Wed Mar 31, 2004 15:23

I think it is hilarious that all these people from large Universities areon this site preaching about student activism. The small colleges are the ones that are really active. In a college with approx 3,000 students the average turnout for a protest is about 1,500 to 2,000 students and this a protest on any issue while UCD or Trinity wouldbe hard set to get 2,000 students out despite their huge student populations.

by Mick Wed Mar 31, 2004 16:00

Strange, I don't see anything amusing about the low levels of student activism.

by Frank Wed Mar 31, 2004 16:46

Wel instead of character assination and libel, suggest ways through which we can get students active please.

Regards

Frank

by Student Wed Mar 31, 2004 16:49

Frank,
You are a right winger, there is no libel there. You wanted to ban the SP and the SWP while supporting and helping the fascist BNP organise in UCC. This is FACT!

Students will only become active when right wing careerists like yourself are kicked out of the SU. That's what happened in UCD.

by Frank Wed Mar 31, 2004 16:52

Kicked out? And my term hasn't even started yet ;-)

Lads, for the millionth time, I am not right wing. Now, please suggest some real ways in which we can get students active - I wouldn't be on this website if I didn't think there would be a few good ideas on it, or if I was a right winger. Or a careerist for that matter

Suggestions please.

by Frankwatch Wed Mar 31, 2004 17:32

I think anyone that is sane would characterise someone that defended fascist scum while attempting to ban left wing groups as a right winger.

by Séamus Ó Ceallaigh Mon Apr 05, 2004 22:41

SO is that the definitive description of right wing? It's true that this topic has been argued to death on the uccsu meassage boards and thankfully those discussions were for the best part intelligent. Saying Frank was teaming up with cops is ridiculous. He had no involvement with the Lawsoc meeting this year.

The fact is that Frank and the rest of the executive, myself, Conor and Gearóid are a the most left leaning exec in the past four years. All have been active throughout the college before. It is a change from a fianna fail ( Meighan) president elected last year and a fine gael (Reidy) president the year before. Those former president's political affiliation had nothing to do with their job performance, as i am a firm believer than in UCC, political affliation has nothing to do with Union politics.

It can be said also that this is the most left leaning exec that could have possibly been elected. Michael Joseph Griffin ran for president with posters of Sharon, Bush, Kissinger and Haughy. He polled a pitiful 113 votes showing that the far right has very little strength in UCC. Similarily the far left has very little support in UCC.

I've siad it before, UCC is a very apolitical campus. The reasons behind this are varied, apolitical or careerist union executives in the past is certainly a factor but the riddiculous representaion of political parties on campus is also an issue.
The question, as Frank has said, is how do we change this? We would love to have 2000 people attending protests...but if a union organises a big protest and only 20 people turn up, that union will divert its efforts into other activities that won't make them look like tools, thats obvious. A new approach will be taken next year and if your only criticism of Frank Milling or next years executive is that he has made a stance on freedom of speech which is contary to your opinion on how to deal with the growth of fascist or far right organisations like the BNP then that does not automatically make him far right. To say so is childish and ignorant.

by Johnny - UCC student Tue Oct 05, 2004 17:56 johnnycash at oceanfree dot net 0861234567

Well so far i can see nothing of what Seamus, Frank, and Connor all promised. I know we have only been back in college for a week and a bit, but they had all summer to sort themselves out. Have they? NO!
I would have thought by this stage that they would be leeting all U.C.C. students know who they are - not just first years! Or are the 1st years the only ones that are important?
Even last year's U.C.C SU had been around to most of the lectue theatres by this time. Have Frank, Seamus or Connor? Are they to lazy to remove their asses from their little offices?
Johnny Cash

by Crsh Wed Oct 06, 2004 14:03

Frank it's your job to get students interested that's why you ran. There is a general stereotype to most students officers whether you are left or right that you are living up to 'incompetentcy' .
Will you stop worrying about which side of the political line people think you are and get on with it. Personally as an ex-Union president being a bit more right wing is much better for the Union than being a flaky liberal, it's just a pity it took me half a year to realise that.

by jay Thu Oct 14, 2004 16:12

I read the above comments with interest. I am a little disappointed that there is so much character bashing going on, from all sides.

Now that the elections are over, I would suggest that all sides come together & work for the common good of the students. It is the students who will benefit at the end of the day.

Besides, I do not believe that the young men & women who were elected would deliberately & knowingly do anything to harm the welfare of the students. If they do, then there would certainly be a case to answer.

Until then, I suggest that everyone works for the common good of the students. In other words, let's all get on with the job of improving services & the quality of education that students deserve. We should ac tlike a union, ie. united. We can build on what previous students achieved and make progress.

There will be another election next year. Perhaps the candidates elected then will be more of a political persuasion to suit those who are unhappy, including myself, with the current elected officers. And until that time comes, let's hold the current elected officers of the S.U. to account to ensure that they keep & carry out their election campaign promises, as we are entitled to do. But please let's not make personal attacks. Let's make progress!!

As the sayings go:
There is strength in numbers
OR
Ní neart go cur le chéile (literal translation: there isn't strength until we come together)