EU suppresses report on anti-semitism

by David C. Tue Nov 25, 2003 19:07

Actually criticism of Israel *is* regarded as anti-semetic.

And any criticism of Israel by a Jew is regarded as the rantings of a 'self-hating Jew', who is a victum of anti-semitism.

This use of the 'anti-semitism' label to cover and hide and enable the domination of a people, theft of their ancestral property, ethnic cleansing and possibly genocide is profoundly evil. It is truly against Judaism and it deeply disrespects the tradgedy of the Jewish holocaust - which was carried out by earlier facists who used similar techniques.

by avi H. Tue Nov 25, 2003 20:15

I must take issue with this point. Reasoned criticism is not anti-Semitic, i.e. when deployed as part of a considered pattern of argument. On the other hand, the casting of slurs against Zionists, such as calling them 'Zionazis' is. Fundamentally, there is all the difference in the world between taking an opposing stance, if reasoned, and mere abusive name-calling.

In fact, what I have found is that those who have an abusive habit tend to reject this assertion by countering that a blanket suppression of all criticism of Israel is meant. It is NOT meant and rather, abusers should take some time out to consider their own anti-intellectual habits, instead of simply rejecting this point out of hand.

by David C. Tue Nov 25, 2003 20:34

Argument on every side of every issue ranges from peer-reviewed academic papers to out-and out rants and diatribes. Arguments against Israel's behavior are no different.

For example, the term 'Zionazis' is a simplistic way of pointing out the similarities between what the greater Israel zionists are doing in the occupied territorities and what the nazis did in the 30's and 40's. The comparison is obviously not exact but it applies nonetheless. There is a strong case to be made that the main difference is merely that the likudniks have not yet perpetrated their holocaust.

If arguments against the likudniks program for israel appears to be a little more passionate than, say, arguments against the liberian rebels program it is only because of the disgust as seeing plucky, decent little Israel, the light and hope of the world, become a vile thuggish sociopathic monster bend on theft, ethnic cleansing and even genocide in pursuit of selfish materiaistic goals.

Covering up the deeds of these people (ie likudniks) with terms like 'anti-semitism' is an abomination against israel, judasim and decency...

by Eoin Dubsky Tue Nov 25, 2003 20:45

According to Noam Chomsky's book "Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians", more Israeli settlements have been created and expanded in the Occupied Territories under Labour than under Likud.

by David C. Tue Nov 25, 2003 21:04

You are absolutely correct. I use the term 'likudniks' to denote the entire neo-facist side of the Israeli political spectrum (I also use the term 'greater Israel zionists', to distinguish them from those who founded Israel proper). Any suggestions regarding a more accurate term would be appreciated....

by Liam Tue Nov 25, 2003 21:41

It's so sickening to listen to you Israeli thicks whinging on and on and on. You know Israel is a right wing racist terrorist breeder and yet you squak "anti-semitism" when all people are doing is pointing out you are a bunch of racist fucks.

You bastards wouldn't even let a EU delegation go to visit Arafat in his own home. You bastards! You fascists! Ooops , am I being anti-semitic?

Wouldn't it be great if we all had such an old womans skirt to hide behind. I have a feeling you lot of zionist fascists will have enough to worry about when the Iraqi people are finished kicking your masters, the US and Britains , from their homeland.

You remember less than a year ago the US was the "undisputed singular superpower" and "friend" of Isarel in it's abuse of Palestinians? Now they are seen as a weak and unable force. Your friend, the big bully, is not so big anymore. Israel might do well to give up all it's awl shite of abusing people near enough as bad a Hitler ever did and claiming "anti-semitism" when people get sick of it and express an opinion on human rights.

Israel has made a lot on enemies on the head of thinking Amerika , the big bully, would back them up. So where is you friend now Avi? Led into the desert by Saladin or someone else from Tikrit for a slow parching death?

by mr. fuzzy logic Tue Nov 25, 2003 22:38

O David you naughty boy ... trying to explain away abusive terminology like Zionazis ... next thing you know you'll be dabbling with Holocaust revisionism ...... careful now AVi. H nad the Mossad thought police are watching you .....

by iosaf Tue Nov 25, 2003 23:57

Sharon has not snubbed Burlosconi.
Burlosconi has not snubbed Sharon.
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Politica/2003/11_Novembre/18/berlu_sharon.shtml

if you'd like you could also read this / put it through the translator / use it as an excuse to get to know an Italian...
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2003/11_Novembre/22/sinagoghe.shtml

Now let's twist the poisonous roots above
Shalom=Saleem=Pax=Siochain=Peace

by Red Dub Wed Nov 26, 2003 01:15

Same old same old. Thats right Avi, we are all anti-semites because we are afraid that Israel is a threat. Even though the Irish Foreign Minister is pushing a bill through the UN condeming anti-semitism, the Irish are all anti semitic because many Irish question the actions of the IDF and the political drive behind it! Do us all a favour.

Arabs are semites too. Denying them the same rights as Jews in Israel probablt makes you more ant-semitic than 99.9% of us.

Grow up and argue the facts. Dont you fucking dare hide behind 6m dead Jews rather than defend the Zionist state apartheit policies.

by Piccolo Wed Nov 26, 2003 06:41

Notice how they wail and gnash thier teeth when some Palestinian civilian accidientally gets killed by the Israeli army, yet the complete indifference when Palestinian homicide bombers DELIBERATELY target innocent Jewish civilians.

If it looks like racism, if it sounds like racism, then it's bloody well racism.

by Liam Wed Nov 26, 2003 07:04

Sure, Berlusconi, the twisted little fascist criminal , is great friends with Israel. But it was the Euroean Union, and that's us serfs here in Ireland too, that Israel snubbed.

A recent delegation to Israel from the EU was refused permission to see Arafat. Is that correct Mr Haifa propaganda man?

Who is Israel to tell us or European leaders who they can and can't see. Israel is acting like a fascist thug no matter how you look at it.

And by the way "Semites" refers to more than just jews. Some arabs Assyrians and phoenician people are also Semitic. But maybe you've been watching too many Hollywood movies and lost touch with the reality

by avi H. Wed Nov 26, 2003 07:13

Ranting and abuse constitute the anti-intellectual core of racism - as illustrated so well by a number of contributors to this thread.

by Piccolo Wed Nov 26, 2003 09:22

Liam is a prime example of this. Ranting, hate-filled, malicious people:

On Liam's planet it's like this:

America - Great Satan

Saddam - Leave our friend alone

Anarchy/Communism - These systems have never been properly implemented, we're sure (in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary) that it would work this time.

Palestinian terrorists - Blameless patriotic heroes

Liam got a nice little ad hominem in there as well, another hallmark of a racist bully.

by kokomero Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:18

Forget the anti-semitic labeling crap which simply attempts to deflect attention from Israels genocidal policies as usual.

I for one hope that Europe imposes blanket sanctions on the Israeli terror-state until it is brought to heel as this is the only language apartheid states understand and is proven to work.

End internment and torture in facility 1391, state-scanctioned murder, collective punishment and ethnic cleansing now and return to the pre-1967 borders or face the consequences!

by kokomero Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:33

The Israelis can much more credibly be labeled as anti-Irish or anti-celtic than vice-versa given that the Israelis killed approx. 50 Irish soldiers on UN peace-keeping duties in Lebanon.

http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Document+ID/A4D094B5E1FA8D7280256C5D002940CC?OpenDocument

As usual the silence of the Israelis on this matter is deafening!

by JMcK Wed Nov 26, 2003 13:01

A high-level EU delegation flew in April 4 , 2003 to try to tackle a tidal wave of Israeli-Palestinian violence but ran into trouble even before it arrived, with Israel blocking all access to Yasser Arafat and the Palestinians refusing to parley without their leader.

Israel said there was no question of EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana and Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Pique breaking Arafat's isolated captivity inside what remains of his West Bank headquarters in Ramallah, besieged by Israeli troops.
"The cabinet decided yesterday that the decision taken some days ago that the Chairman should be isolated will remain since (Arafat), as the chairman of the Palestinian Authority, is responsible for terrorist actions," Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said ahead of the EU mission's arrival.

An Israeli official, who asked not to be named, amplified that Israel would "not permit a European delegation to break the isolation which we have imposed on Arafat."

"The Europeans' only aim is to provide Arafat with a public platform and that we will not allow," he added.

Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, who held talks with the two Spanish envoys in Tel Aviv, said he favoured a meeting between Arafat and US special envoy Anthony Zinni, but stuck to the government line on banning the Europeans going in.

"The official position is that the cabinet decided not to allow a meeting ... because we want to keep him isolated," he told reporters.

Solana hit back that the ban on allowing them to meet Arafat was "big mistake."

"We insist that everybody will have the possibility to speak with everybody else," said Pique. "To meet Arafat is not an objective in itself. We are here to help, we have to see how to proceed to implement the UN resolution."

The UN Security Council on March 30 passed Resolution 1402, calling for an immediate ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal from the Palestinian territories.

by Ali H. Wed Nov 26, 2003 13:40

Instead of trolling Avi your time would be better spent reading Aron Bakers reports on how ordinary Palestinians are treated by IOF "soldiers" as they try to get on with their lives.

I notice you don't try to deny the truth in his reports!

All Palestinians are missing in terms of their treatment by the Israelis is to have to pin a crescent onto their clothing!

by David C. Wed Nov 26, 2003 18:51

I fully agree with you there Avi.

Reasoned argument is a difficult thing to find on any issue and anti-semitism has clearly not yet disappeared from the world. But using the term to cover up an evil and unsustainable policy doesn't help matters.
Also, don't confuse a point that is passionately argued with abuse or a rant. There's a lot of good points on this thread, as well as some debris. Don't hide from them just because they're made with some emotion.

Sharon is definitely courting Italian neo-facists. In addition to the current state visit by the leader of the Italian neo-facist party, there are many other signs. Last year Berlusconi said that Mussolini was an OK guy, and sending jews to the camps was just like sending them on a little holiday. (I wonder if Primo Levi would agree?). Yet this guy is a close friend and ally to Sharon, who shouts that 2/3 of Europeans are anti-semetic because they oppose Israeli war-mongering.

*Everyone* can see the bullshit.

by the terminator Wed Nov 26, 2003 22:44

http://www.news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=869&id=1063282002

by Giron Thu Nov 27, 2003 09:44

And we still have people who cry "anti-semitism" if you criticise their fascist regime in Israel and the occupied terratories.

Maybe I'm being "anti-American" by criticising the US torture at Guantanamo and Bhagram?

I see the Holocaust Museum in Washington only has reference to Jewish victims of the Nazis. Perhaps it would be anti-semitic to contaminate the sacred holocaust constructed memory ? Also interesting that of the billions extracted by corrupt Jewish/Zionist groups in the States from european government an banks ,with the threat of severe US sanctions, to enforce the embezzelment , not one red cent went to non-jewish victims of the death and labour camps. In fact a great many jewish survivors of the camps also received only a pittance while the most went to Zionist projects in Israel .

If you use your religion as a battering ram to achive moral justification for murder, theft and mistreatment of the native population in Palestine and to line the pockets of gangsters and thieves like Rabbi Singer in New York or Ab Foxmann of the ADL, it is you who is being anti-semitic.

Think about that.

by Barney Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:34

I don't know where to begin setting you straight your mind is so poisoned by hatred of israel.

You talk of corrupt Jewish Groups/ embezzlement/rant/rant.

It's such a heap of hooey that I must assume you are a revisionist of some kind.

Come back when you've got something sensible to say.

BTW, Guantananmo Bay is a place where certain individuals who are dangerous to both you and me are being detained. If you think they're mostly innocent little puppies, the ask yourself waht the hell they were doing in a terrorist training camp?

by Yossarian Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:00

I suggest that anyone who doubts the validity of Giron's claims checks out Norman Finkelstein, a jew, who has extensively documented such abuses. I think his new book is on that subject. He has also contributed to www.counterpunch.org where he has refuted criticism of his claims. Worth checking out if this subject is of interest.

by David C. Fri Nov 28, 2003 00:52

There is a lot of stupidity in the world, and much of it is dangerous, however the old "if-they're-not-guilty-then-why-were-they-arrested" argument is among the most stupid and the most dangerous -especially in a democracy that is based on rule of law.

Barney, you are a facist, as surely as if you were in the hitler youth with deep and sincere ambitions to serve the fatherland in the SS. The fact that this is slowly and insidiously becoming acceptable in the western democracies is absolutely horrifying and frightening.

The era of the rule of law is ending...

by red dub Fri Nov 28, 2003 02:48

so if israel is such a wonderful little country, why are the US cutting its aid? or is the white house anti-semitic too?

by slider Sat Nov 29, 2003 04:58

You Irish cant even get along with your own ethnic group--you slaughter each other in a genocidal rage in Northen Ireland just because some are Protestant and some are Catholic and then you want to lecture the Jews? You come to America and then help perform ethnic cleansing on the Native Americans and take jobs from African Americans and then you criticize the Jews? You collaborate with the real Nazis during WWII becuse of your blind hatred for the British. One of your favorite sons, John F Kennedy, started the Vietnam War where more Vietnamese were killed in one days bombing and Search and Destroy missions than all the Palestinians in all the so called Intifadas. This after he invaded Cuba and brought the world to the brink of Nuclear war. So slide back up to the bar and have another round and then Blame it on the Jews!