CHEMTRAILS PART 2

by DJ Rob - UCC Sun Jun 02, 2002 15:26 Cark

I swear, this'll be the death of indymedia, ridiculous cranks, ultra left partisans, rabid zionists, etc etc, posting up the most ludicrous opinions and non-events masquerading as "news", drowning out whatever real potential the newswire is meant to possess.

I suggest that a new "opinion newswire" be formed, from which all the above can post their wacky crap, and that the newswire be aggresively policed to include only current affairs news. I believe thats how most sucessful newspaper and media operations work, they keep a clear line between news and comment.

But to return to "chemtrails":
(From here:)
http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm

"Perhaps you've come across the dire warnings on the Internet: "HIGH ALERT!! REPORTS ARE COMING FROM EVERYWHERE PEOPLE!! RED ALERT ** HOSPITALS JAMMED AS BANNED PESTICIDE IS SPRAYED FROM THE SKIES (see http://home.earthlink.net/~ravenlmr/index2.htm.)

What's all this about, you ask? It's called "Chemtrails," a purported government program to deliver poisonous or mind-controlling substances to the general population by spraying from airplanes.

...

Chris Lydgate of the Willamette Week (Oregon) wrote a detailed report on Sept. 26th, 2001 on the "CHEM TRAIL" phenomenon. Lydgate wrote about Portland observers of the "Chemtrails," and even New Mexico's own Cliff Carnicom (see http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm). He also included comments from an old-timer meteorologist who puts the kibosh on the "Trails."

He wrote "If there is a giant conspiracy to spray chemicals from the sky, chances are good that Professor John Day is not a part of it. The author of six books on meteorology, Day is a world-renowned expert on clouds, a professor emeritus at Linfield College and a regular contributor to the McMinnville News-Register.

When he hears the word 'chemtrail,' however, Day's frosty mustache droops, and his sky-blue eyes darken. 'I don't happen to warm up to that phenomenon,' he sighs. Despite his reluctance to be drawn into the controversy, Day graciously agreed to examine photographs of chemtrails to see if he spotted anything unusual.
'This is a perfectly normal situation with cirrocumulus cloud and a single spreading contrail,' he declared after inspecting one photo for a full minute. Then he flipped to the next. 'Nothing weird about that. Cirrostratus cloud...' And the next. 'The criss-cross pattern is a consequence of planes flying criss-cross patterns....' And the next. 'I've seen many situations like this one....'

Contrail formation, Day explained, depends on the relative humidity of the atmosphere-- he ratio of what is to what could be at a particular temperature. When relative humidity is low, contrails dissipate within seconds. But when relative humidity is high, especially at the subzero temperatures of the upper atmosphere, the addition of even a tiny amount of water vapor acts as a catalyst. Under these conditions, contrails may linger and spread to cover the whole sky.

At length, Day extracted from his bookshelf a well-thumbed edition of Peterson's Field Guide to Clouds and Weather, which he co-authored in 1991 (a good 10 years before chemtrails became widely discussed), turned to the section on contrails, and pointed to a photograph of a thick, white plume--a plume that looked for all the world like a chemtrail...

...

If you see a contrail from a plane, does that mean that the government is again spraying deadly chemicals or biological agents on its citizens? A 7 March 2001 article by Traci Watson in USA Today describes the "chemtrail" phenomenon. She quotes Patrick Minnis of NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, VA, who said "If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it's, 'Well, you're just part of the conspiracy ... Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them.'' Watson also writes that "The cloud-forming contrails that conspiracy theorists find so ominous are 'perfectly natural,' Minnis says. The odd grid and parallel-line patterns are easily explained as contrails blown together by the wind, scientists say. "

This is in fact such a well known loony-bin area, that Electronic Arts made a video game called Majestic which included a fake webpage called "www.chemtrails.com", but sadly, some people never learn, least of all the people who waste indymedias bandwidth with this drivel.

by Author Sun Jun 02, 2002 15:28

The 'm' is missing in 'sympatico' in the first URL link in the posting.
Correct this by typing the whole address in the address bar and it should take you there.
Apologies.

by Author Sun Jun 02, 2002 15:44

The 'm' is missing in 'sympatico' in the first URL link in the posting.
Correct this by typing the whole address in the address bar and it should take you there.
Apologies.

by Author Sun Jun 02, 2002 15:59

That site http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm has already been dealt with and proven a load of trash, which it is. That was months ago.
Can't believe you've been taken in by that garbage designed to make a serious issue seem like a cheap conspiracy. Get with the times.
What research have YOU YOURSELF done. How do YOU know what is a chemtrail or not. What are YOUR own genuine feelings about the issue without reference to stupid stupid websites by stupid stupid people. Send your article to the 550 residents of Espanola Ontario Canada, who got together and pleaded to the Canadian Parliament via a petitian to have spraying stopped over their town because they were becoming increasingly ill. They didn't even know about 'chemtrails' as we now describe them, for God's sake. REAL people suffer in THE REAL WORLD, DJRob. At least respect that.

by DJ Rob - UCC Sun Jun 02, 2002 16:06

Any counter opinions are of course "trash" and just part of the conspiracy, black UN helicopters, etc etc, I've heard enough thanks.

by Concerned citizen Sun Jun 02, 2002 18:48

You may be shocked to know, DJRob, that this isn't about you or if you've heard enough. Did you ever stop and wonder that others might want to hear more?
It would also be a big help if what you are ranting about had some substance. What's your agenda?
Have some respect, if even for yourself.

by DJRob - UCC Sun Jun 02, 2002 20:05

As much as I dislike this sort of conspiracy-nutcase trash wasting indymedia newsspace, "concerned citizen", my power to somehow delete your original posting is nil, so I cannot somehow deny other people the chance to laugh at the various websites shown.

I do however have the power to comment on this thread by showing that this absurd theory has been well and truly debunked by various people, if indeed anything beyond common sense was required.

(Sure.. the government wants to poison us all by having "military tankers", which look suspiciously like normal jet aircraft, spray us with.. something. Something evil, anyway! And of course, the conspiracy is so well organised, if it wasnt for people like you taking photographs of these "chemtrails", which look suspiciously like contrails left behind by jet engines, we'd never know! To borrow the parlance of the americans, gimme a break.)

Oh, and my agenda? I work for the government, clearly.

by Author Sun Jun 02, 2002 22:57

Unlike you DJ I've looked at ALL the available material on chemtrails. Sure 90% probably goes too far, and comes across as conspiracy hype. That will always be a given with these types of things. Since you mention UCC, and by the tone of your sentiments, I guess you are probably quite young, maybe early 20s? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to stereotype here, and I really do respect your right to air your views. But I have just the same right to air mine (and they're not just mine) and the type of treatment you are giving is hurtful and quite unnecessary. I am surmising that I may just have a little bit more 'life' experience than you, and just may be a little wiser on one or two things.
What you are doing is making a complete generalisation and totally trashing the issue without actually saying anything to disprove it or to make a coherent, believable arguement against chemtrails. What I am doing is slowly building up a picture for others to make up their own minds on it, based on real observations. I am not myself a conspiracy theorist, in any way nutty, paranoid, mad, afraid or anything like that. What I am is an observer. I listen to people - all people - even those like you. I have travelled and witnessed a lot, and one of those things I have first-hand experience of is chemtrails. I don't even know of some of the things you are saying like UN Black Helicopters and the like. I have seen people's lives ruined for asking the wrong questions to the wrong people. I have seen people who have lost everything they hold dear over getting the chemtrail issue into the open. THAT is more real than the chemtrails themselves and is what I am more passionate about. I abhor deliberate inducement of suffering on intelligent, innocent, sick, normal people. There is a very human story along with this that I guess you just havn't witnessed, and I wouldn't want you to witness it either.
What is making you so passionate, vehement, angry, accusatory, dismissive? Your observations don't make chemtrails any less of a reality. It's so easy to write like you have, relatively anonymously, out of site. People like me are not some sort of geeks in cyberspace with something to get off our chests. I am not passionately trying to prove chemtrails. Like I said, I'm an observer, a normal human being. I go about my daily life just like anyone. What I want to do is make people more vulnerable than you or I aware. I want to contribute in this way. In the end what I put on a webpage doesn't matter. It's people that matter. It's basic human rights, the right to know things, the right to be heard, the right to inform yourself as an individual, the right to command at least a modicum of respect from your fellow world citizen even if they do think you're nuts. It's fair play.
I work tirelessly to contribute to the world as constructively as I can, as do countless others just like the people going to Shannon tomorrow to protest about the USAF thing.
I just wish you could find it in your heart to respect, acknowledge and observe real people doing real things about real (to them) issues, and doing so with a good spirit and with dignity. That's how the world becomes a better place. I've been around the block so many times on this and it's never any different.
I don't care if you have a closed mind on the chemtrails thing, or anything else. But please have an open heart at least...for the sake of those who sacrifice their reputations, loved ones and lives.

by silo Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:44

The first "Chemtrails" post starts by saying that the photos are "proof". They aren't proof of anything. They're evidence, and very weak evidence at that. It goes on to say that "Ireland's skies are regularly pounded by tanker aircraft spraying toxic chemtrails", without showing any aircraft, any actual spraying, any evidence that these trails are in fact toxic or any demonstrable evidence that they might have been toxic in other places where this spraying has supposedly taken place. (Medical evidence/opinion, studies, research etc.)

Anyone with a vague interest in meteorology could explain these trails, probably in a variety of different ways. (cirrus/cumulocirrus clouds, jet trails, ice particles, etc.). Even if they are "chemtrails", (the burden of proof to demonstrate that these are in any way "toxic" or otherwise harmful is on the person making the claims.

Positing the theory that "chemtrails" are the result of a plot to poison us with "toxic" substances is a ludicrous inference without any basis in any evidence.

Provide the evidence (preferably independent and conforming to normal standards of research) and we will gladly listen to your case.

The evidence provided (mostly at http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Willthomas/UN/Fitrakis.htm) seeks to infer that "chemtrails" are related to the militarisation of space. The House of Representatives bill referred to (HR 2977) is available for all to see (go to http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c107query.html and type HR 2977 into the "bill number" search query box), and mentions the word "chemtrails" once, without any reference that they are anything to do with spraying and are included in a list of "exotic weapons systems" - that is, weapons that are not in use but could be developed.

The pages on the internet about "chemtrails" generally propose that these trails are a vast conspiracy (e.g. from http://www.rense.com/general4/fre.htm "Many theorize that it s part of a clandestine operation to implement the New World Order (NWO) by eliminating society s "useless eaters" and the infirm and/or to reduce the population to a support level for the "elite"."), but they never provide conclusive evidence, just lots of pictures of clouds and sky, without evidence, context, research or any other form of rational persuasive argument.

Please use the newswire for news. Please make the news "radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth". Note the second word.

by Author Mon Jun 03, 2002 14:36

1)I said that the pictures were proof of something weird going on in the sky. What I am seeing/photographing is at least abnormal and warrants investigation.
2)I'm working on a solution to have the pictures more illustrative and clear.
3)I have personally seen more than enough demonstrable evidence that chemtrails are toxic, a health risk to those underneath.
4)I don't care about conspiracy sites etc. and what they imply about chemtrails. Chemtrails are chemtrails. They are not natural and they have made thousands of people sick whether I or anybody else believes that or not. The initial reason why chemtrails became known the way they are now is because people were getting sick, not because of some God damned conspiracy.
5)People did not make this up. Thousands of cameras click and record thousands of chemtrails all the time. The vast majority of the pictures show obvious and deliberate white lines that form into an artificial overcast, sprayed out by military tanker aircraft in conditions not right for ordinary jet contrails. It's very very very simple. That's what I am TRYING to show. I wish I could take a picture through my binoculars.

by Ryan Mon Nov 28, 2005 15:09

Been noticing these things for about the last three months. Thursday 24th November saw the heaviest spraying I've seen so far at around 9:30 am. Four huge parallel 'smoke trails' across the sky. The fourth trail was being laid down as I watched. Then all four drifted into one another with the wind over the next two hours. I've lived next to Dublin airport for 30 years and I know my planes. I also know the difference between condensation trails and 'other' substances. We're being heavily sprayed with something? Going to approach the authorities when I've a few decent photos and some footage of what I'm talking about.

by Ryan Mon Nov 28, 2005 15:18

By the way, That first reply is a bit odd. DJ Rob or somebody? Very quick to dismiss the 'chemtrails' as the subject of cranks there my friend. Very quick to give internet samples of how it's all a big joke. Know a bit too much about this already it seems???????? You on here specifically to make a joke out of peoples legitimate concerns???? Rather we discussed XFactor would you???? You also made no mention of all the concerned people worldwide who've been seeing this stuff in the skies and created websites showing their photos. So much for objectivity! Your comments aren't helpful or welcome. Choose to ignore the chemtrails by all means. Enjoy your cancer/heart disease/blood poisoning/respitory problems etc.

by Paul T - STOP CHEM TRAILS UK Fri Feb 16, 2007 17:11

http://www.stopchemtrailsuk.bravehost.com/

by number 6 - legalise freedom campaign Fri Feb 16, 2007 18:49

The site below has some interesting stuff on the issue.

by no.6 - lfc Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:13

The web site reference is as below. This is the correct site with interesting info.on it.

by Damien Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:40

Having read up on the website you have privided I can't understand what you are worried about. The site is clearly selling a device called a chembuster which it promises will use free orgone ( whatever that is) to break up these chemtrails. So the problem has now been solved - Just make one of these zappers and put it in your garden and you'll be safe.

I also suggest a hat made of tin foil.

by no.6 - lfc. Sat Feb 17, 2007 21:10

Ta for that Damien. Sure if we were to worry about everything we'd be all in the early grave.

The lungs seem to be at risk if there is any truth in this chemtrails stuff. An expensive hat from tin would be no good.

I do find the info. on the subject quite interesting though.

by P.O.T. Sun Feb 18, 2007 15:04

But sure this Chembuster machine gets rid of the trails, so there would be no risk to anyones lungs if you buy the chembuster.

I think we must have some chembusters here in Dublin - no chemtrails today.

by Alan Mon Jan 07, 2008 13:32

The Guardian reported the Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

by Charles B. Mon Jan 07, 2008 14:10

Indeed sirs, I don't see what you are all so alarmed about.
They appear as jet contrails to me (see link given below), the content of the original piece is merely conjecture.
If you are worried about toxic substances entering your atmosphere, then I would consider roaming the high ways, and especially the byeways of the countryside to observe the multi coloured flames of plasti-coated wrapping paper being burnt in manys the back garden, and the associated dioxins and furans being dispersed throughout the locality.

http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/SCOOL_Clouds/Contrails/list.cgi

Consider worrying about such issues as food and energy security, the proliferation of reality TV or my favourite, mans inhumanity to man.
Worry, worry, worry, isn't it a fine thing to be able to worry eh? Perhaps one day soon we shant have the opportunity to do it so much...

by Alan Mon Jan 07, 2008 22:23

Charles B, you obvously didn't read the main stream article from the Guardian
"A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain’s biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,439850....html
The above video above also exposes the German Military spaying it's skys (currently), adding another piece of info on to the mountain of evidence. I hope you also don't have a 1940's attitude believing lead paint and asbestos are not poisonous and perfectly normal to be exposed to everyday.

The British spraying it's unaware population with harmful bacteria, some of which causes lung cancer is not conjecture (like you say this original article is) and more important than as you say "the proliferation of ;reality; TV". You obviously don't know the difference between a natural contrail and a chemtrail which the British Gov have 100% been proved of spray on it's population (in their own report only made public recently). Charles, please don't take what I said personally, do a bit of your own research before you comment again.