and the liberal left would legalise this?

by TPT Fri Jul 25, 2003 20:09

I suppose cannibis is the exact same as crack.Why don't you show us pics of someone going through the various stages of alcohol abuse aswell while your at it.If you associate crack with cannibis it shows what an uneducated redneck you must be.Now go drink a bottle of rum,beat up the wife,and piss the bed.After all it is friday.

by paul cummins Fri Jul 25, 2003 20:15

maybe i didn't make it clear but don't kill the messenger, i only took a photo of the poster and reported what it said...?

take deep breaths before you post people

by R Isible - 1 of IMC Editorial - Editorial Group Fri Jul 25, 2003 20:54

What sort of a response is that to Paul for posting a picture that he took? Even if he were the person putting up the picture how does the childish and obscene nature of your comment contribute anything other than an impression that you're insane? Thanks for the reportage/picture Paul.

by Mike Fri Jul 25, 2003 23:08

Well first of all, this MUST be from the "right" because they are the only folks to confuse "liberals" with "leftists". But that isn't the bad logic.

Some things can't be "cured" and our approach should be to minimzie harm.

Yeah, I'm for decriminalization of drug use. Why? Because the alternative is exactly the crazy logic of this sticker. Yes, taking drugs may make her sicker and sicker, though probably less damaging if they were readily available to her and she didn't have to do the sorts of things she does in order to get them. BUT THINK! Does chopping her head off make her well!

Because THOSE are the alternatives (well we don't have to chop their heads up; could simply keep them confined).

by Anon. member of a leftwing group - - For reasons that will become clear Sat Jul 26, 2003 01:40 regular-user at indymedia dot ie

I'm guessing this comes from some 'nazi' group. who else would actually be bothered? I don't thing Ogra or young FG/PDs would bother getting their manicured hands dirty by touching lamp posts. and I can't think of any leftist groups that are against criminalisation and/or legalisation. (Irps maybe?)

anyway, i think TPT did actualy raise a good point. Alcohol abuse. Well, ok I abuse alcohol (don't most of us?), so SERIOUS alcohol abuse. This is the worst blight on western, and definatley Irish, society. But it is not looked on the same way as illegal drugs because, well... it's legal. But the fact is that if you take heroin, and have the resources to get your gear when you need it then you can lead a fully functioning life. But if you are an alcoholic, you are actually drunk most of the time and incapable of being 'normal'. Yet heroin is looked on as this massively evil drug that ruins communities.

Yes, it is. This can't be denied, but... guess what, so does alcohol. But if the resources were there (shooting up clinics (none of this methadone shite), properly funded kicker schemes, and (drum roll) a lack of poverty and alienation in working class communities) then these addicts could lead 'normal' enough lives. But with alcohol, such a situation is impossible, given the very nature of what it means to be an alco.

It is a common myth that all heroin addicts are mad rabid junkies out for their next fix. This may be true in some cases, but I've known quite a few addicts in my time. I lived next door to one for a year, and met a lot of casualties. But, these were essentially 'good people' who's life had been fucked over in various ways. In fact, his house was something of a 'half-way house' for people who got out of prison in the area (north wales), and many of these people had only started taking smack in prison (but thats a whole different debate!) I know someone brought up the 'argument by anecdote' thing on another thread, but i think seeing as i lived there for a year and met many different people, then this could be called 'research' i guess.

But the question that is never answered, or in fact asked, is WHY? why do people take drugs, more specifically herion? Is it because they are 'bad people' who don't care about anything? I would say no. They are simply people who are fucked off with it all, and find an escape route. All these people who go on about the evils of smack, in a way they are right (it is a horrible drug that can serioulsy fuck things up), but there are two questions that every 'anti-drugs' head should ask themselves. 1) do i know what this person's life is like? and 2) do I know what being on smack is like?

I have taken herion on a few occasions (only smoked - but yes i did inhale!) and i know what its like. It's like nothing, there is a vacuum, but a happy vacuum. Somewhere where you dont actually feel anything, except maybe acute euphoria. No wonder so many people from shit estates, or who have been seriously fucked over etc, turn it. It lets you escape like no other drug - except maybe crack but i've no personal experience of that.

So, i think its time that people, such as the people responsible for the sticker, realised that, in the words of Flavor Flav: "You can't stop reality from being real" Let's face it, as long as society is in such a fucked up state as it is, people will use and abuse drugs. The question then is what do we do about it?

(First as an aside, Cannibis as a 'gateway drug': I was just thinking of all the people I've known who take drugs and of how many are now taking herion. I can only think of two, both are irregular users but both took their first smack in, you guessed it, prison. And both are from a shit town in kildare. Saying hash is a gateway drug is like saying a pint is a gateway to whiskey alcoholism!!!)

So what do we do... Fucked if I have all the answers, but a step to towards it would be getting rid of the underlying causes. Yes those old ditties, poverty and alienation - y'know they don't go away no matter how much you wish. But is our government (or any for that matter) actually interested in such a radical departure from the neo-liberal agenda?

Irish Times Survey Says: Shut up you hippy fuck.

I think most of us on this site will agree that, regardless of drugs, we need to fundamentally change society. (Now we differ on our ways to get there, but lets leave this aside for this deabte eh?) No-one can say that in the 'new society' people will not take drugs (FUCK man, I LIKE getting high) but i'll bet that in an equal society there will be a fuckin lot less drug use.

But in the short term, (ie under the current regime) what can be done? Well, i think that proper funding for clinics, ability to get access to clean herion (no-one has EVER died from pure smack, fact) for addicts, re-integration programs, ending the crimialisation of drug users. that's just a few starting suggestions, but seeing as the govt is committed to cutting back on the CE schemes, it wont be long before they cut back on those CEers who work in drug clinics I think its fairly safe to say that NOTHING wil be done. As if they give a flying fuck. Or any of those other mainstream parties for that matter. We just need to lok at the recent 'undercover swoop' in Dublin. A load of guards went round buyin smack off small time dealers, then busted them. Oh joy! Now they'll go to prison, and someone else will take their place. But the drugs will keep coming, cos they aint interested in bustin the big boys. Or maybe they are just too incompetent?

But, back to cannibis. Is decriminalisation the answer? Personally I don't so, because that still leaves the market open for dealers - and I mean the big boys, not your mate who knocks out a few bars a month. I think it should be not just legalised, but nationalised. (As I do with alcohol and fags). This way (including a ban on advertising) we could ensure good clean pure drugs for those who choose to partake in the usage.

E for example. I think that if someone wants to take E, they should have the right to go to a doctor anonymously, have an allergic test taken, and then get clean mdma, and just in case have free testing available in the nightclubs. Idealistic? I'd say realistic or people will keep on dying from shit drugs. It really is as simple as that. If we don't accomodate these people (and I definatley include myself in that) then we will keep seeing people die, and an increase in 'drug related crime' (does that mean if I smoke hash and happen to abuse a copper, then I become a part of the 'drug related crime' statistics?)

So I think I've shited on for long enough. So I'll leave you with something to think about, hopefully. How many people in Ireland have died on building sites, or generally unsafe workplaces, this year? How many people have have had (excluding smack, alcohol and fags) drug related deaths? Now serioulsy, you'd think given the fuss kicked up about drug deaths and profiteering, you think something would be done about unsafe workplace deaths, and unsafe workplace profiteering? IT Survey Says: Shut the fuck up you hippy (again???)

PS - I'm a regular(ish) poster on the site, not a troll i assure you (and apart from this I always use my real name). I want to remain anon for obvious reasons - I've said quite a bit about my past in the post. Anyone who knows me well, will know who I am, others, well you'll just have to take my word for it.

by Corran - non affiliated Sat Jul 26, 2003 02:44

What i fucking great article (see above). iv never read something relating to the drugs "problem" so down to earth and sensible.
seriously, whoever wrote that, print it and send it to the powers that be, send it to schools everywhere, and for Gods sake keep posting here. thank you for such an interesting read and for being so open and sharing your experiences.

by Anon. mlg Sat Jul 26, 2003 03:16

Glad at least one person sees the sense behind it! nice one Corran. Drugs is an issue i feel really strongly about, becaue basically I've taken them all my life. Mostly drink - but hey, drink's not a drug is it??. And basically everybody I've known (including family) do or have taken illegal drugs. thing is, I was actually TAUGHT about them. As opposed to 'drugs nr bad, nkay' which is what i was 'taught' in school. such fucking bullshit. sure i was brought up (by school) to think that sex involved a nun saying "this is the peeeenis".

But I don't think emailing this to schools, the powers that be etc will have any effect. They ain't interested. Maybe the unions might though, teaching things like that would certainly improve student/teacher relations. Esp considering a fuckload of teachers are takin drugs too. (again argument by anecdote, but i do know quite a few teachers who endulge - including one i met pickin mushies on the curragh many years ago - he had to be nice to me after that!)

Seriously tho people from all walks take illegal drugs. from the drop out scum like myself to the rich and famous. except who will get off on the charges, me or liam gallagher? i wonder...

by Lavery Sat Jul 26, 2003 03:58

Fell through the cracks. Big deal.

by Dave Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:45

Thank you. It's wonderful that you can clearly state the problem and then give very reasonable solutions that would work. If only our "leaders" gave a shite

by iosaf Sat Jul 26, 2003 13:49

good photo. And as for the rest of you maybe you will pass through all your life without knowing either friend, relative or child be addicted to Crack.
Maybe you will aviod being the victim of Crack caused crime. Well done. How middle class and safe and secure and smug and prim you must feel.
Well done Paul.
Once you have seen the human damage Crack causes you have seen Hell. Heroin doesn't easily compare.
Crack is the most evil substance ever to come to the street and it is almost certain that the CIA put it there. To control and decimate their cities and ours. To make Hell that little bit easier to have.
Does Dublin have a crack problem yet?
Do you have teenagers with pipes under their hooded jackets? Do you have teenagers who can think of nothing but that 2minute high selling everything that is left at train stations?

by . Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:58

but the poster is a load of crap. It's a picture that's been doing the rounds on email for years, as in variously attributed to crack, cannabis, heroin, alcohol, prostitution and tobacco.

It's fine to have a debate about drugs, but I wouldn't use the evidence of some anonymous poster stuck up on a lampost to back up an argument any more than I'd debate HIV/Aids using the evidence of stickers up on toilet doors that condoms don't work.

by iosaf Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:19

manic mondays.
i don't like mondays.
someday monday.
Very different songs to Sunday, Tuesday.

The stickeron teh toilet doors too deserves to be addresses where do these things come from? What prompts someone to distribute such propaganda. What else do they do?
AIDS must never be discussed without discussing migration rights and drug health strategies.

by weeler Mon Jul 28, 2003 13:50

seems to me the only thing that really changes in that series of pix is the ladies hair and facial expression..

MO' drugz fo' das punx