Go! Move! Shift!

by Joe Collins Wed May 28, 2003 02:00 Cork

By coincidence a friend e-mailed me tonight with this message:
I was in Carrigaline tonight and saw what seemed like a fairly large number of Travellers arriving at the new car park there [situated down by the river and between Main Street and the Crosshaven/Fountainstown Road].
Judging by the mutterings and posturing of some of the locals as I walked through the village tonight, there could be trouble tomorrow [Wednesday]

by Bill Thormey Wed May 28, 2003 11:19

I note by the tone of the above two postings that the author seems to think that these people should be exempt the laws. If I break a law, I expect to be punished and I have no problem with that. If I have a problem I will argue my case in court, or challenge the law through the higher courts, or else lobby my elected representatives to change the laws.

Travellers are clearly in breach of the criminal law in certain instances and they should be treated the same as any other group or individual in society. This is after all what equality is all about.

In my locality (different to the above) we have had years of problems with travellers. They have ruined an area of national historical interest, dumped litter and wrecked cars all over the place. They physically attacked a litter warden who was just doing his job. They drink and drive and dont give a dam about the lives of other road users. They dont pay car tax like I have to. The dont pay a TV licence fee like I have to. The TV Licence Inspector won't go near them because he is afraid to do so. They urinate and deficate openenly leaving all sorts of health hazards.They once parked in a persons front lawn and demanded three thousand euro to move. They are barred from the two local pubs because of no less than six serious outbreaks of violence. In short they have no respect for the environment around them or anybody elses property or enjoyment of an amienety area. We are simply plagued with this scourge and like prisoners in our own homes.

And the biggest joke of all??? The local council has two halting sites in the area, one completely empty and the other with six bays empty because the travellers 'dont like them'.

Give us a break.

by Joe Collins Wed May 28, 2003 12:08 Cork

It would be so easy if people and actions and issues could be dealt with as if every situation, person and action could be neatly categorised. The last post suggests that all Travellers are the same. I know many Travellers and the vast majority of them would agree with the wisdom of prosecuting people who break the law, as would most settled people.
However I draw the line when the homeless Traveller breaks the law simply by existing. Read the 2002 housing act and you will see that it criminalises Travellers if they have no place to live.

by . Wed May 28, 2003 14:47

"feeling a prisoner in your own home".

Many things readers may make you feel like a prisoner in your own home.
These include "·House Arrest·"
& "·electronic tagging·"
With House Arrest, generally a "repressive" government decide you are too "sticky" to shoot & place you "under house arrest".
Oh, lots of people have been put under "house arrest". Electronic tagging has a very different social economic profile, this involves wearing a bracelet around your ankle which is "electronically" monitored by sattelites, telecommunication multi-national-corporations, and your local police station. To get one of these you contact your "probation officer". [youwill have had experience of how "laws" are ·"different·" for people coming from different ·"social economic backgrounds·" by that stage, so I shan't go explaining that one today.

There are other "measures" that can make you feel a "prisoner" in your own "·home·".
These include having a marked passport, A5 posters with your face (generally scowling in a vaguely upward direction) on street corners, or a "handle with care" order.

"Handle with care" orders aren't available from either your local police station or your probation officer. Don't worry about them, the "State" does these. (you don't have to worry about it, there are no "formal" interviews to attend, and your signature ends up in the boxfile without you worrying about it).

Extracted from a longer text.
"on prisoners"
iosaf.

by . Wed May 28, 2003 14:49

so many of ye are prisoners in Ireland.

by iosaf Wed May 28, 2003 14:52

Solidarity with Speakers of Shelta
who it be true carry in their small
caravans of culture that which is best
and worse of Ireland.
The land of prisoners.

by - Wed May 28, 2003 16:53

depression etc., are a main cause of many people feeling like they are "prisoners in their own homes".

by . Wed May 28, 2003 16:55

we are all prisoners in our own homes.
good there is TV. eh
?¿?¿?

by Clare Wed May 28, 2003 20:06

Travellers have been in Ireland since pre-christian times. They has always led a nomadic way of life, they speak their own language, have their own customs. I know many Travellers, they are a highly excluded indigenous ethnic minority. The fact that Irish soceity has failed to recognise their basic human rights is not the fault of the Travelling Community but the fault of us the settled majority.

Laws around vagrancy and illegal occupation are impossible to enforce when families who have been on the road for generations are given no option but to camp illegally. Who's fault is it that there is rubbish all over illegal halting sites?? The Local Authority I'm afraid, for not providing the services.

Travellers must be afforded equal oppurtunies that is all campaigners ask, not that they be above the law. Recognision and help to gain their basic human rights. Exchanging horror stories and tell us what your neighbour told you is counterproductive. All the people I've met from Kildare have all been particularly horrible. How unreasonable of me it would be to suggest that all Kildare people are the same or that they should go and live in Cork so the next generation can all be as wonderfully rounded as I.

by kitty-kat Thu May 29, 2003 13:00

they're ALLLLLL the same. we should round up this scourge and have ourselves sum hayngin's better yet we could just forcibly sterilise the women, they do it elsewhere to gypsies, why not here?

christ i bet they eat their young anyway.

i've met several guys called bill in my life and they were all shits.

I hereby decree all men who go by the name of "Bill" are shits.

you'd be wise to have a read of Clare's posting and try to imagine how life could be improved for people in your area - both settled and traveller and then do something about it instead of whinging about how much harder life is for you.

bhoo whoo on the TV licence. my heart bleeds. how's your running water?

by anonymous Thu May 29, 2003 14:50

Obviously not all travellers are vicious sociopaths like many people claim them to be. However some of them are. People who campaign for for travellers not to be persecuted also protect those who cause the huge problems that decent travellers face in their ordinary lives.

While many of the laws designed to restrict travellers rights should be actively ignored and campaigned against, there are also aspects to the law that should be obeyed. Travellers do not have the right to blackmail ordinary people or to wilfully destroy the envoronment or our delicate Heritage. If a member of the travelling community is guilty of such actions he/she should be severely reprimanded and should not be protected by over enthusiastic rights campainers.
Some campaigners imply that travellers can do no wrong and that they are subject to horrendous treatment by everybody in the settled community. This only leads to a destructive persecution complex by the travellers who then feel justified in taking what they rightfully feel is owed to them. That leads to resentment and a vicious cycle

by Clare Thu May 29, 2003 20:04 cork

What you are saying is totally true. Each incedent needs to be taken on its own. Crimes committed by Travellers are still illegal but all too often Traveller culture is not validated or recognised in mainstream (or other) media or in everyday life. The only mention of their culture are negative reports. Crimes committed by Travellers are reported as exactly that, yet crimes commited by red-heads are not, hence the reason why it is not as hard to be a redhead!

Most Travellers are subject to no only wide scale poverty but wide scale social exclusion which is a far more aleinating entity. As such an excluded minority its surprising that crime/drug rates are not far higher within the group as is visible in other ghettoised communities worldwide. Traditional family structure and community unity may be one reason..but this is all irrelevent.

My main arguenment is that as humans they should be afforded the same rights and responsibilies as all citizens. When there is a serious deficit in the rights (eg. health, education [basic literacy I'm talking] and validation of economy) then perhaps perceptions of obligation faulter.

What i will say to you is I was recent talking to one Traveller who said that he thought all this immigration was great cos now when anything was robbed or broken the Travellers weren't blamed anymore it was all the blackmen! (paraphrased)

by pat c Fri May 30, 2003 13:12

May 29 2003 - Liverpool Echo

Schoolboy beaten to death
by Sam Lister and Matt Slater,

A 14-YEAR-OLD schoolboy has been battered to death.

Johnny Delaney was attacked as he walked across a field next to Lydden Road,
in Ellesmere Port, yesterday afternoon (Wednesday, May 29). It is believed
that he was knocked to the ground and repeatedly punched, kicked and stamped
on.

His aunt said she was convinced his murder was racially motivated because
Johnny was from a family of Irish travellers. Mary Doran, who lives on the
same caravan park in Oil Street, Vauxhall, as the Delaneys, said: "These
thugs killed Johnny because he spoke with an Irish accent. "They knew he
was part of a travelling family and that is why they picked on him. We are
all devastated but his mum, Winifred and dad Patrick, cannot even speak
about what has happened. Johnny has never been in trouble with the police
and he was a very slim lad who would not hurt a fly. He is part of a massive
family and we are just contacting them all to let them know what has happened."

His relatives and friends have created a shrine on the field on the corner
of Lydden Road and New Grosvenor Road were he was killed.

Johnny, was taken to the Countess of Chester hospital at about 5.45pm but
died shortly after.

Local resident David Jones ran out of his house to help him and twice gave
him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation before paramedics arrived. Mr Jones, 36,
said: "He was lying on the ground and not moving so I tried to bring him
round and he did start to recover twice. It seemed that he would be okay
and I just cannot believe that he is dead.

I am a father myself and all I can think about is that this could have been
my child that this happened to. This is a quiet area and there are lots
of families living nearby. Everybody is totally shocked that this could
happen here."

Police are today making house-to-house enquiries in the area. They are investigating
a number of theories, including whether there had been any disputes between
people living on the travellers' camp and local people.

Last night five teenage boys, three aged 16 and two aged 15, were arrested
in connection with the death. They were today due to be quizzed by detectives
from Ellesmere Port.

by Environment Sat May 31, 2003 14:37

Have a long history of fucking me up - in many (small) and BIG ways !

Imagine everyone as a traveller. I would be fucked fucked fucked.

by pat c Sat May 31, 2003 18:03

Everyone as a chemicalfactory, a pig farm, a farmer spreading slurry, guinness discharging waste into the liffey. thats what fucks upthe enviornment.

by rant Sat May 31, 2003 22:56

you're all a crowd of NIMBYs! faux-liberals who don't give a shit about travellers. would you allow a convoy of travellers in your back garden? or on your street? didn't think so...

anyone who has really met travellers -and I've met many- knows there are many good ones.

please, stop pretending they're all great. some are violent, into crime. look at the halting site next time you walk by. where did the beamers come from, the satellite dishes? is the dole THAT generous....?

If I pitch a tent on Grafton Street I'll be moved pronto. Why should travellers be allowed camp where they like and generally cause chaos?