|
|
Blog Feeds
Anti-Empire
Human Rights in IrelandPromoting Human Rights in Ireland
Lockdown Skeptics
Voltaire NetworkVoltaire, international edition
|
The end of the American Illusion? national |
miscellaneous |
news report
 Tuesday January 21, 2003 22:14 by Graham Caswell - Various caswell at indigo dot ie
 What's wrong with America? America seems to be increasingly out of step with the rest of the world. Why? One of the greatest differences between America and other countries is that America is first and foremost an idea - a mental construction of what a country should be and could be. The story of America has been the story of hope, the story of freedom, the story of equality and the story of wealth and opportunity. America is special among nations, says this story. Made up of immigrants from everywhere, America IS the planet in miniature, the greatest country on earth and a preview of what is possible for the rest of the world. Evidence for the truth of America's story can be found in its economic, military and cultural influence in the world and in its general success. Not only is America an idea, it is a very good idea and is shared by Americans and non-Americans alike. Or so the story goes. But the idea of America is an idea that seems to be losing its appeal. In South Korea restaurants have signs outside their doors saying 'Americans not Welcome here'. The Arab world is almost unanimous in opposing American influence. The relationships between several European countries and America are the worst in living memory and in nations around the world huge crowds demonstrate against American foreign policy. At the risk of being labelled 'anti-American' (the international equivilant of being unpatriotic), it seems clear that almost everybody, including many Americans, has a problem with America these days. At international forum after international forum America stands alone in resisting an end to landmines, frustrating action on climate change, undermining the International Criminal Court, and generally opposing every progressive international agreement around. The European Union, the Pope, Mexico, Canada, Amnesty International and other countries and organisations regularly and consistently condemn American disrespect for human rights in its use of the death penalty. Representatives of America are booed at international meetings and summits and any American living abroad will tell you of the surge in, well, anti-Americanism in recent years. America has been out of step with the rest of the world for some time but the 'election' of George Bush undoubtedly made the division much worse. Then September 11th happened and changed America in a deep and fundamental way. Today with the seemingly unstoppable War on Iraq the divisions between America and much of the rest of the world seem to be becoming even more pronounced and a war on Iraq without UN Security Council approval will make them crystal clear. In many eyes America's vision of a 'New World Order' seems to be that 'America does what America wants' and darwinism seems to have been elevated to the level of international relations at the expense of a discussed and agreed world. For those who are deeply concerned by these developments the question has to be asked, "What's wrong with America?". Perhaps the problem is simply power - i.e. America has become the world's only 'hyperpower' and its administration is suffering from the arrogance and corruption that comes with it. Or perhaps there is something dark deep in the heart of racist, gun-loving, vengeance-seeking, God-fearing culture that believes power comes from the barrel of a gun and America has a God-given right to do whatever it wants. Or maybe the problem is simply that much of the world is enviously wrong and 'weak' and it is America that is strong and right. But there is another, more disturbing, possibility. Perhaps the popular vision of America is an illusion and that illusion is in trouble. Maybe America isn't as militarily secure as it seems? Maybe the American economy and business model isn't as healthy as it would appear? Perhaps American culture isn't dominant but is weaker than that of older nations? Maybe the real problem with America is that the illusion of its dominance and of its special place is crumbling? It is arguable that the illusion of American military security was shown clearly on September 11th, 2001 when 19 men dealt America the greatest blow in its history with only box cutters, imagination and a willingness to die for their cause. The sight of a vast nuclear aircraft carrier 'guarding' New York in the days after the atrocity highlighted how the rules had changed. Technology seems to have inadvertently created a world in which mass destruction is becoming more democratised. True national security now involves more than military spending and might. Concurrently with this realisation, the demise of the dot com bubble, along with the problems of Enron, Worldcom and other American corporations, has done serious damage to the credibility of the American economic model. This has added to suspicions about America's deepening social inequality, crumbling infrastructure and increasingly dysfunctional lifestyle. America's trade deficit (the REAL deficit) is at record levels while the world is beginning to sell dollars for Euros. America depends on the world subsidising its trade deficits through investment and by using dollars and, if the world stops paying for America's deficit, then America's economy is in trouble. America's economy is certainly big but like American society and many individuals living what is seen as an American lifestyle, it may not be healthy. Finally and most importantly, the idea that America represents the ideals of freedom, equality, democracy,the rule of law and respect for human rights seems increasingly threadbare. America incarcerates more of its own citizens than the vast majority of countries. The American political system seems to depend on money and corporate influence, black and poor voters can be disenfranchised through electoral fraud and even the electoral system allows the 'election' of a president who lost the popular vote. The American media is restricted to four similar television networks while most American cities have only one newspaper and critical debate seems conspicuously absent in mass media. The Geneva Convention seems to be disposable in America's eyes and America works hard to frustrate and undermine the International Criminal Court and other international agreements. Social, income, educational and other measures of inequality show America as by far the most unequal western nation and its inequality is growing. America stills violates the human right to life by executing human beings. America as a nation doesn't seem to pay any special regard for the values and ideas of freedom, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights and, as a nation, its respect for those values and ideas increasingly seems to be an illusion. Many countries are exposed to terrorism or the threat of weapons of mass destruction. Many countries have a restricted media and show little respect for the ideas of freedom, equality, democracy, the rule of law and respect for human rights. Many countries have economic problems. But only one country defines itself by the idea that it is special and that its system is the best on earth. The events of the past few years have introduced doubt about the America idea into the hearts and minds of people around the world. Since America depends on this idea for much of its influence and for its very identity this is a fundamental threat. |
printable version
Digg this
del.icio.us
Furl
Reddit
Technorati
Facebook
Gab
Twitter
|
View Comments Titles Only
save preference
Comments (22 of 22)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22America is a relatively new country and has not yet settled down. The people have so much energy but they don't seem to know how to direct it for the benefit of all.
You do make some interesting points, a couple of which I'd like to refute:
We are out of step with some of these international arrangements for good reason.
For example, with regard to the International Criminal Court, it is almost certainly illegal under the U.S. Constitution to agree to subject U.S. nationals to a criminal process which does not guarantee trial by a jury of one's peers, but rather some panel of judges from a mix of countries, including despotic ones.
How would you like that Irish soldier who was making porno tapes in Eritrea while on UN peacekeeping, and his commanding officer, to be facing some trumped-up "war crimes" charges with a prosecutor from the Sudan, and judges from Libya and China?
Second, with regard to landmines, the US opposition to a ban is primarily related to the defense of South Korea, where the North Korean army, led by the crazy Kim Jong-Il, outnumbers the combined US and South Korean forces by about a million men. Landmines are an excellent defensive weapon, not much use offensively.
Third, it may be that US power is declining. I worry that we are overextending ourselves militarily. The Chinese will overtake us as the world's largest economy during this century. According to my sources in US military and intelligence, younger PLA officers see this century as the Chinese century and are willing to aggressively assert their power when the time comes.
Do you think the Chinese will be better hegemons than the US?
Graham,
You provide some exellent ideas in your essay. Now here is the thing you are not hearing about because of the control of the media. A lot of Americans are becoming quite vocal in our dissent. In fact Henry Kissinger is coming to Minneapolis on MAY 1st and we are planning a lively reception for the war criminal.
As for the crap posted by our other Irish/American friend re backing out of the International War Crimes Tribuneral well let us discount that idea right away. That is the line being played out in the pentagon friendly media here, however those of us in the know understand the real reason. It starts with East Timor. Listening to one of the few truely free media outlets Pacifica Radio with Amy Goodman (g-d bless ya Amy, a nice Jewish girl who also calls Ariel Sharon and the other leaders of Israel war criminals) explains how the US Military from the Ford Administration, thru the "human rights" Prez Jimmy Carter, on thru Reagan, Daddy Bush, Billy Bob Clinton and ending with the Son of a Bush All directly provided the Indonesian military with 95% of the arms which they then used to slaughtered 35% of the population of East Timor. Or for that matter, the US Military providing arms, support and intelligence to the Columbian military which they then pass on to right wing death squads killing trade union activists in places like the Coke-a-Cola plants in Bogata, much like the British did provide arms and intel to loyalist death squads in the north of Ireland or indeed to a whole host of other drug lords, all under the pretense of the "war on drugs". But do not blame our Irish/American friend for his ignorance, the media here is complicit in keeping the people ignorant, you have to be willing to really dig to get the truth. And it is very very difficult, in this present culture to get there.
Michael Moore gets close in his movie "Bowling For Columbine". Very close. Be of good cheer, resistance is growing, the American working-class are starting to awaken and history has taught us that we are pretty damned radical once we do awaken. Must be all those damned Irishmen and women.
This is really quite insightful. It is difficult in the USA to speak freely these days, so I think that you are brave to put your name to this. Unlike "Irish-American" who does not have the courage to write his name... But I suppose he is like his draft-dodging heroes in the White House; a loud-mouth coward ;-)
I'd like to respond to the comments made by the CIA-sponsored American propagandist "Irish American":
First of all pal, drop the "Irish" bit. This is obviously an accident of birth which has nothing to do with having a cultural affiliation. Irish people instinctively dislike imperialism and totalitarian regimes; you seem to be quite fond of them!
1- Trial by jury is simply one type of judicial system. There are many types. It is not written in stone as being the best system in the world. How would you define "peers" with regards to war-crimes? People from the country of the accused? No way! People from the country where the war-crime was committed? They would be equally biased. The problems here are obvious, too obvious to enumerate. But you demonstrate again the American arrogance that your system is the best and so everyone and everything else is inferior.
2 - The example here is nonsense. Making porno movies is not a war-crime or a crime under International Law. But again your American arrogance shines through... if you are in someone else's country you must respect their traditions, laws and customs. As an American you think that you don't have to because you are the best. And what would be wrong with having judges and lawyers from foreign countries on the ICC...? oh, that's right, they are a funny colour, they speak funny and dress funny... who could trust dirty foreigners eh? You are a racist. Plain and simple.
3- Landmines are evil. They are not a deterrence The only Western nation that thinks it needs landmines is the US. The South Koreans can look after themselves. They want you lot out. And the best way to stop a war is to make friends with your enemies. Look what we have done here in Europe. The thought that Germany, France or anyone else in the EU could go to war with each other is unimaginable. Europe fought two horrific wars in the last century. We know how to prevent them.
4- I will worry about the Chinese if they take after the US's idea of "foreign policy" and "pre-emptive defence". But we'll deal with the Chinese if they ever become a threat to peace. The US is the main threat to peace right now so please do not use soem fictional bogeyman to scare us. We are a bit more intelligent than that.
5- As for the last question about the Chinese being better hegemons than the US... well I might ask the Nicaraguans about that, or the Cubans, or the people of
Grenada, or the Chileans... this list is getting quite long!
Yours,
Shane
IrishAmerican,
This is a typical of the Government (not just America, it happens everywhere) excuses to avoid something.
The *real* reason America doesn't like the War Crimes tribunal is nothing to do with their constitution. It is because if an American was seen to be convicted by an International Criminal Court, then it would destroy the image of righteousness they like to project. Can you imagine what it would be like to see an American general described as "evil" and lumped in with the likes of Slobodan Milosevic? America would have to come down off its throne and admit it was just as fallible as the rest of the world.
If it was merely a matter of their constitution being violated, they wouldn't just dismiss the ICC, they would try to negotiate it and work it to their own needs: They certainly have the power to do such a thing.
Surely that would be better than to allow war-criminals to get off scot-free...
First of all thank you all for giving me more credit than I deserve.
If the CIA wishes to sponsor my commentary, it is welcome to discover my identity and send me a check.
GreenParty Mike, if you're "anti-American" why don't you seek asylum elsewhere?
For the person who accused me of being a "draft-dodger": I have many years of both active and reserve military service. As a volunteer, not a draftee.
For the person who accused me of being a racist: funny, since my wife is a "woman of color."
I am also an attorney, so I can attest that jury trials are the fairest method of determining guilt or innocence of the accused.
I wouldn't want you to be tried by some corruptible crew of judges from third-world despotisms.
America's motivations for refusing to join in the creation of the ICC and for deliberately frustrating its creation and operation are known only to the politicians and officials concerned. However this stance is certainly compatible with a general unwillingness for America to submit to international law and agreement, which is the point I was making.
The wider and main point of the essay is that, because America is first and foremost an idea (in the minds of both Americans and non-Americans) it is uniquely vulnerable to the doubting and the dissolution of that idea.
The issues of the International Criminal Court and the landmine treaty are just examples to illustrate my main point. I could have equally have used other examples of American non-co-operation with the international community (protectionism of the American steel industry, frustration of the handgun control treaty, etc.).
The point is that America is out of step with the rest of the world. I think that this is fairly incontrovertible at this stage. What I'm interested in exploring is why this is happening. Whatever you think of America and wherever you stand on America's actions in the world this is a very important question.
God I love it our "Irish" American friend here gets to this, just like all the rest of them. Hey if'n ya don't love America then leave it. That is the basis of the arguement. Mother Jones,Farrell Dobbs, hell even Martin Luther King would hear this "rebuttal" to facts. The issues not addressed to the evil that the US has done to others. As for the "oh I'm not racist, why my old lady is black" (ps my wife is also a person of colour) the actual corect term for not liking or trusting those nasty, smelly foreigners is a xenophobe. Lots of that going around in the States (Ireland too for that matter), why look at the tension between the African-American community and the Somalai. Bigotry is bigotry no matter what the source.
Sorry son, we are not leaving. We are growing, like a virus. growing and organizing.
To quote Mohatma Ghandi First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they get angry at you, then you win.
Irish American has accomplished much:
"According to my sources in US military and intelligence" ... he later says "thank you all for giving me more credit than I deserve. If the CIA wishes to sponsor my commentary, it is welcome to discover my identity and send me a check [sic]."
"I have many years of both active and reserve military service. As a volunteer, not a draftee."
"I am also an attorney"
Not bad going for a yankee doodle paddy. That is, if ye believe him 'cause when accused of being a rascist for the following comments:
"How would you like that Irish soldier who was making porno tapes in Eritrea while on UN peacekeeping, and his commanding officer, to be facing some trumped-up "war crimes" charges with a prosecutor from the Sudan, and judges from Libya and China?"
... it conveniently turns out that ...
"For the person who accused me of being a racist: funny, since my wife is a "woman of color.""
Whilst on the subject of international criminal courts our US/IRL commentator remarked:
"For example, with regard to the International Criminal Court, it is almost certainly illegal under the U.S. Constitution to agree to subject U.S. nationals to a criminal process which does not guarantee trial by a jury of one's peers"
Perhaps he could explain how and why Milosevic is being charged, or the supposed Libyan bombers of Pan-Am or the Rwandan genocidists or even the Nazi's for that matter? Which of those trials did/does the good ol' US support?
Not that it matters, really because even if the US was charged, they'd probably ignore the charges as demonstrated when they were convicted of terrorism against Nicaragua (the only country ever convicted of that charge) in the world court and ordered to pay around $30 billion in damages. How much did they pay? Diddly squat!
Here's another example taken from commondreams
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0121-06.htm
-'The latest case echoes a previous ruling by the ICJ [international court of justice] in June 2001 involving the La Grand brothers, two German nationals who were executed in the US in 1999.
The court found that the US had denied the brothers their right to contact the German consulate.
It ordered the US not to go ahead with the execution of Walter La Grand, whose brother Karl had already been put to death.
But Walter was executed nevertheless.'
they make it up as they go along and fuck you if ye disagree.
I'm fucked!
First to Graham: The reasons for US opposition to the ICC and the landmine treaty have been substantively discussed by the government, and include the objections (political influence on the trials, etc) that I wrote about.
As for Milosevic, yes it is probably true that he can't get a fair trial by US standards. That doesn't mean we have to subject our soldiers to such a process.
GreenParty, you described yourself as "anti-American," I didn't. If you are so in contempt of the United States, why not leave it? Go to, say, the socialist paradise of Cuba?
The question is always rhetorical, because of course you would never leave - the livin's too good here. You would rather just take shots at the government, people, economic system, military, culture, and cuisine of the US (did I leave anything out?).
Is there any use of force in defense of the United States that you would support? Did you think that the attack on al-Qaeda's bases and their Taliban hosts in Afghanistan was justified?
Again you are missing or avoiding my point. America is again and again and again and again refusing to submit to international law and agreement (i.e. it has become increasingly 'unilaterial'). It is not a co-incidence that this has occurred on issue after issue - it is part of a pattern. Going to war in the absence of a security council resolution would be the ultimate unilaterilsm and seems to be quite likely.
For this and other reasons that I have outlined America is increasingly out of step with the rest of the world. This is, I think, quite clear to even the most casual observers of international affairs.
My question is why?
Like many supporters of America these days you seem defensive - and understandably so. But whether you approve or dissaprove of America's behaviour on the world stage, the question of the reasons behind the growing division between America and the rest of the world is extremely important.
I think you overstate the differences.
The USA is a party, even a leader, in most international initiatives and agreements.
We are the primary funding source of the UN, to begin with. You can follow on with many examples of accord, e.g., the law of the sea, AIDS initiatives in Africa, the WTO, etc.
The points of contention are few, mainly the examples you cited, the ICC, landmines and Kyoto.
You see the problem as merely one of America "getting in step" with "the rest of the world." I see each issue as discrete and subject to acceptance or rejection on its own merits. I see strong arguments against subjecting the US to the ICC and the landmines treaty; I am not knowledgeable enough about Kyoto to make a judgment on it.
The final issue, Iraq, is a tough one because it will be played out in the next month. I am personally undecided on it, but if it happens it would undoubtedly be better to have the Security Council's backing.
You try and tar us all with the same brush....
I can be pro America, pro American, but I can object to the current and (previous) american administrations foreign and domestic policy.
If I object to Bush's "war on terror" does that mean I object to old spiderman comics, sierra nevada pale ale, the sight of the sun setting over the rockies, Bettie Davis, and John Ford movies, Walt Whitman, Deep Pan Chicago Pizzas, and two thousand other things? Does this mean I reject and spurn the friendship of american friends old and new out of spite?
I don't. It's a wonderful piece of propaganda, to make me feel that if I protest about the current US administration I am anti American. I am not. I like america, I like so many things about america, and I love my friends there. But I don't think this should force me not to object and fight againist your current government (and its non existant legitmancy) policy and the pain and death it's forcing innocents to undergo.
I'm not anti american. When people hold up parodies of your flag or burn it, they are making a powerful gesture, (a gesture that was made illegal and then thrown out of your own courts, one rule for your citzens and another for the world, how typical) they are showing their contempt for your governments policys by burning what was once seen across the globe as a symbol for freedom and democracy.
Besides the Kyoto Protocol, the International criminal court and the Ottawa Landmine Treaty America also differs from much of the world (and from almost all western nations) on the UN Handgun Control Treaty, the ABM Treaty, the Biological Weapons Convention (abandoned by America after more than six years of negotiations), the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the WSSD Johannesburg Summit and various UN resolutions on Israel. These are just off the top of my head - there have been quite a few others.
The points of contention between America and the rest of the world are NOT few. We wouldn't be having this discussion a few years ago, for example. Polls in a great many countries show growing disillusionment with America and, as an American, you must have noticed an increase in concern about the direction in which America is heading. From Time magazine to the Sun to Indymedia Ireland America's relationship with the world is questioned. Within America and world-wide people are concerned about America -not all people, but a large and growing number.
Blindly criticising everything to do with America is stupid and, in today's social and political climate is a dangerous generalisation. But so is blind allegiance to the often unilateral policies and actions of the current American administration. America is losing friends in public offices, in private homes and in individual minds around the world. I have argued above that America may be much more vulnerable than many believe. If that is true, then America may need those friends and today's policies are very, very stupid.
For in the end might is NOT right and co-operative living on a shrinking planet requires communication, discussion and agreement. Today's America doesn't seem to get that very important fact.
looking for voluntary weapons inspectors to inspect USA and Isreali weapons of mass distruction. Possibly starting with shannon airport. Expect plenty of non co-operation!
Get your map of US terrorist installations at http://nyc.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/terrormap_24x36.pdf
"Whether you’re a budding weapons inspector or just a trivia buff, the Indymedia map of U.S. terrorist infrastructure can give you the scoop on nuclear manufacturing facilities, chemical and biochemical weapons facilities, weapons manufacturers, nuclear testing and launch sites, and much, much more."
Not to be missed.
(Right-click on link and choose 'Save as...". 1Mb download)
Graham
Thanks for the great essay - you have calmly put into words what I can only yell and scream about.
This 'War on Terror' is not like any other US war. Bush and his friends are, I believe, trying to transform America into something more authoritarian than we've ever seen before.
And with that it the administration is revealing its racism, too. Bush even asked the Supreme Court to effectively end Affirmative Action on Martin Luther King's birthday! How tacky is that!??
It is hard to state this without seeming extremist or 'Anti-American.'
I cannot be Anti-Myself. If America is the democracy it claims to be, it can withstand criticism.
Right-Wingers in America love to quote Carl Shurz 'My country right or wrong'
Funny thing is, they do not quote him accurately.
He really said:
'My Country right or wrong, if she be right, stand by her, if she be wrong, right her.'
Americans, I believe, know that something seriously wrong with the Bush Junta, but simply do not have the democratic skills to confront the daily onslaught of 24 media hype of fear. We are only effectively allowed to have two parties and thinking outside of the box is not rewarded by either the party funders or even the voters.
We do not get much outside news in the US. Only recently did I realize that most of the 'European Perspective' that we get is actually a British perspective. And views from France and Germany (and Ireland) are rejected, ignored or just made fun of (especialy the French).
I could go on, but I wouldn't want it to sound like an excuse. America is democratic enough to stop its government from acting the way it does - or I would like to think it is.
America does not 'connect' with the world because it does not have to. It is big enough, powerful enough, and economically strong enough to do is it wills - everyone else just has to ride the wake in its path.
The World Court situation is instructive. When America decides to be an equal among nations and commit itself to the idea that 'All people are created equal' (and equal under law) then we will see a change in policy and attitude.
September 11th should have created a time of reflection for us, instead Bush led us into hate and fear as motivations for foreign policy. This is increasing reflected domestically, as well.
When the US immigration authorities round up Iranian Jewish refugees for fear of 'terror' something has gone wrong. The very people who would be Bush's allies (Iranian Jewish refugees!) are treated as 'the enemy' - this makes no sense at all and shows that there are deeper fears involved - racism, xenophobia and perhaps even anti-semitism. How this squares with America's mini-me, Israel, is both difficult to explain or understand.
OK, I'm ranting enough for now...
Here's another good essay by Brian Eno, one my most favorite artists...
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2003/0120/cover/view_eno.html
Please Graham, keep up the writing - I spammed your essay to all my comrades back home :-)
It's not just that the USA has recently become a "hyperpower". It's that your/our perception has changed because we are now threatened. With no USSR to provide credible military response to an overextension the USA is gettin' while the goin' is good.
All the things that you object to now about the USA have been practiced by it for a long, long time.
It is built upon genocide and racism.
It is built upon the expropriation and exploitation of other countries.
It's list of human rights abuses goes right back to the first days of settlement.
For further information read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".
For a shallow, cursory look at the USA's horrendous history of invasion and interference in other people's countries look here:
http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm
The US has the biggest economy in the world, yet somehow the world supports the US...interesting assertion, but it lacks truth
The country has the worst economy it has had in 20 years, and unemployment is still only 6% (which is an unemployment rate most EU countries only dream about) and it grew by 3% last year, but the US economic model doesn't work...hmmmmm...doesn't add up.
The racism smear. So old. When Ireland is as diverse as an average American city, get back to me (oh, and quit coming the fuck over for jobs and complaining about the beer, the food, the women and how much "you" - when it was my grand daddy - built this country you have just set foot in). The race issues you lot are dealing with we were over 40 years ago. You guys almost held up Nice on immigration for God's sake. The emigrant country doesn't want immigrants!
The rest of it is also devoid of reality. The only people I know who have guns are hunters who keep them locked away); no one in my family has ever owned one. I would bet my life that 9 out of 10 Americans would prefer to give the rest of the world a big FUCK YOU and close shop to you lot (but then we are accused of being isolationist). Whenever there is a problem in the world, the US has to solve it. Most Americans have complained for decades about having to be the worlds policeman, and your complaints, those of you in the EU, ring hollow when you sleep under the blanket of security we have provided you the last 50 years (before that, we gave you the big Fuck YOU and were constantly denounced for isolationist). The same thing goes for South Korea who if it wasn't for us and securing your lives in the Korean War (and my Uncle Pat's chest wall looks like hamburger meat for it from grenade shrapnel), they would look pretty much the same as North Korea. No KIA's or Hyundai's for Americans to buy and for South Korean's to get rich on. They would be starving...
Hope we pull up stakes and move our bases out of Western Europe and let you all defend yourselves for once (you wouldn't even take the lead during the genocide in Kosovo in your own back yard).
Grow up and quit whining! GEEZ!
I think I have to take this off of my list of site's because the people who write and post here seem to be delusional.
Jews and Arabs are being rounded up by the U.S. government? That is one under-reported fact, and I thought that "Jews control America," the media, and other anti-semetic claims. Amazing that I have not noticed this round-up, and I live in New York, a city with the largest Jewish population outside of Israel. You would think I would be missing a few friends, politicians, customers (mostly Jewish).
Pathetic. Whatever gives you comfort and feelings of superiority, I guess, if therapy isn't available.
Refreshing stuff, Graham. Nár lagai Dia do lámh.
What a snivelling bunch of full of yerself leftie twits! Can none of you see the big picture? It's not about oil, you fuckin' morons - it's about getting rid of a regime that's a serious threat to world peace. Look at the jubilation on the faces of the Iraqi's for fuck's sake. Do any of you have any cop on at all?