A World Without Politicians is Possible!!!!

by a Fri Apr 19, 2002 21:26

oh yes

by dj salinger Fri Apr 19, 2002 21:33

I don't care what your going to do.
leave out the politcal opinion, please,
it's not news.
same goes for various save the world by (insert political creed here) posts.

by Phuq Hedd Fri Apr 19, 2002 22:07

Dear "a",
the people proposing that they will "make trouble" (as though there were anything wrong with that!) are the SWP. I quote from their election statement:

"Any elected representative of the SWP will - as James Connolly put it - function as a 'disturber of the public peace'."

I'm just trying to save innocents like yourself from inadvertently "making trouble".

Dear "J D Salinger",
I don't care that you don't care! Where does that leave us?

by dj saliger Fri Apr 19, 2002 22:12

it leaves me still dj salinger

by a Sat Apr 20, 2002 00:17

Disturbing the peace is not 'real' trouble - it is a mere disturbance. Now, burning the Dáil and its inhabitants in a toxic waste incinerator, that's trouble, and that's what I intend to do instead of voting.

by Burty O'Hurn Sat Apr 20, 2002 00:59

Dis is dedly. Instead of actually doing anything. Dease people prefer to engage in fantasy of how day'll burn down de Dail. We're spending millions of day're money investing in de military, but day'll come at us all angry and disorganised.
Dedly!
Tremble tremble...

by Sheain MacCionnaith - Socialist Party/ Socialist Youth Sat Apr 20, 2002 10:02

Why bother to vote if your going to spoil your ballot paper?

Seriously what difference do you think you will make if you stand on the sidelines shouting at capitalism while the corrupt politicans run a muck with the affairs of the people.

Our TD Joe Higgins has been discribed as the real opposition in Dail Eireann. Since day one he has stood up for workers and youth. Clare Daly if elected will do the same, and unlike other TD'S Joe lives on an average workers wage.

It is impossible in my opinion to stand back on argue with capitalism simply on the streets when the movement is at its current size. The capitalist politicians wont listen.

But imagine if a strong workers movement was represented in Dail Eireann by real left wing TD's. A diference would be made and a real strong opposition voiced.

I state real workers movement a movement which refuses to go into a coalition with any establishment party (For one our party has this rule: no coalition with the establishment no matter what!)

Finally I wish the SWP the best of luck in running for election. And I hope that they turn out for SP candidates where no swp candidates are running and vice a versa from my party.

comradely
Sheáin Mac Cionnaith

by Oliver O'Driscoll Sat Apr 20, 2002 13:04 olodr at eircom dot net 30 Salvia Court, Keyes Park, Limerick. 061-468518

Opting out from the election achieves absolutely nothing. A vote for radical left candidates such as Joe Higgins or Seamus Healy provides a platform for them to explain and agitate for the socialist alternative to the current, corrupt and unjust capitialist system.

by anti-swp and now anti-sp Sat Apr 20, 2002 13:20

Power hungry? parliamentary socialism never works and cannot work, take the power back.

by C. Sat Apr 20, 2002 13:25

Given that even the mainstream irish media has accepted that there are no issues in this election and no possibility that a government will be elected with policies in any way different than the normal, voting serves as a tool to give people the illusion we live in a democracy.

Use the energy you would spend going to the ballot box, going to the anti-war demo next weekend.

Use the intellect you would use analyzing policies and manifestos looking for a difference to instead discuss how we can change things or where we want to go.

Go to a meeting - to disrupt, or talk or whatever.

Don't pay you bin charges and join the campaign - this won't be defeated by votes - only by resistance.

While I respect the commitment of the SP, SWP et al. (even SF whose activists are committed) I don't see the election as an opportunity to change anything. Perhaps the biggest difference would be the money to the parties if candidates who donated money got elected - but that's what it's all about: who gets the money. Not change.

by M - - Sat Apr 20, 2002 17:35

We have so little influence on what goes on in this country and in our name, dont you think we should use what little say we have to elect someone who will try to get our views out there? I say tear it all down
but in the mean time we have to live in it. I dont know about the SWP and SP, agendas n all, but there are greens and independants who can make sure some important issues are raised, piss off some politicians, while we prepare, plan, hope.
I dont think spoiling your ballot is really making any statement, someone counting will just bin it and there goes what little voice you have.

by Phuq Hedd Sun Apr 21, 2002 19:05

"M",
you have a lot more: the ability to get out with your friends, neighbours and acquaintances to organize your own life. Whether it's a food co-op, a project to clean up your street, a solidarity action with local striking employees, being active in your resident's group, trying to get a decent halting site in your area, organizing resistance to the extra depradations of the politicians that your less-active neighbours elected (bin-tax, poll-tax etc). Whatever spins your wheels.

As soon as you do those things you can expect that one of the highly salaried loudmouths will try to jump onto the success of your campaign and claim that its because they blustered in the Dail.

Bollocks. It's because you and your friends DID it.

by Solidarity Mon Apr 22, 2002 16:11

A growing amount of young Irish people are looking for anti establishment electoral alternatives. Many young voters are checking out the Greens, Sinn Fein, Joe Higgin's Socialist Party and other left wing radicals and independents like Seamus Healey. I was not aware that the SWP were standing as they are a revolutionary party but I found this posting informative. Bigger parties that are pro business get plenty of coverage- look at the four pages the Progressive Democrats got in today's irish Times. I think it is good that INdymedia invite the smaller radical parties of the Irish left to participate and inform activists through this news wire, and I would vote against any attempt to censor SF, SP, Green or SWP information.

As to those from an anarchist position, you have no authoritarian right to censor this discussion for those of us who are going to exercise our vote. I believe registering our protest is important- I voted No to Nice and No in the Abortion referendum. To abstain here in referendums would be criminal. I want to register my anger at the PDs and FF's squandering of the economice boom, and I will support any party that calls for an end to racism, more public housing and transport etc etc etc. Its just not good enough to sit on the sidelines- look at the shit France is in. If the Irish radical left increase its share of the vote- most Irish people who have not read Bakunin or Trotsky or whatever will see that as a real tangible barometer mark that dissent is rising in this country. As such, I would prefer if this news wire realised that, like it or not, the election is a fact and we should not bury our heads in the sand ignoring it. SF, SP SWP, Green and left wing independents should be free to air their policies and there should be no political censorship for those of us who want to use our vote

by A99 Mon Apr 22, 2002 23:27

Indymedia sets out to be free of all political parties or organisations, whie posting party information might seem like a good idea to some others like myself see it as nothing but a spit in the face of indymedia's ideals.