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news report
 Friday August 16, 2002 11:11 by RED OCTOBER 1917 - Socialist Party/ Socialist Youth
 There is no capitalist escape route for the working class and rural poor in the Middle East out of their plight. Only by creating independent workers' organisations with a socialist economic programme of nationalising industry under democratic workers' control and fighting for an internationalist solution to the problems of nationalities, can the enormous oil wealth be redistributed poverty eliminated and wars banished.
Even Bush's European lap dog - Tony Blair - has recently cooled his enthusiasm for war, reassuring the worried Jordanian ruler King Abdullah that a UN resolution would be sought before any military attacks. Nonetheless, Blair remains adamant that British MPs won't have a vote on pursuing a war against Saddam Hussein. In any event a majority of Labour MPs reportedly support this military option. Yet according to a Daily Mirror poll of 21,884 people, 91% opposed going to war. Recently leaked Pentagon plans have envisaged a massive invasion force of 250,000 US troops supported by 25,000 British troops. Civilian casualties have been estimated at 11,000 dead. In the White House, while Bush's propaganda machine continues to pump out unfounded horror stories about the Iraqi dictator's "weapons of mass destruction" and his terrorist links, the consequences of removing Saddam and replacing him with a stooge regime remain troubling for US imperialism.
The ruling regimes in countries such as Jordan and several of the Gulf states enjoy little popular support. And by supporting the US - Israel's main backer - while Ariel Sharon continues to oppress the Palestinians they will further enrage the impoverished masses of the region who could in turn force a "regime change" in their own countries. Even in Saudi Arabia, whose reactionary and repressive rulers have sought to distance themselves from their US allies, they too could find themselves overthrown by a mass movement of dispossessed Saudis. This could result in a more reactionary, Islamist regime being installed and - ironically for the US - a regime that would be sympathetic to the aims of Osama bin Laden, i.e. the expulsion of Western influences from the region. But, assuming that these semi-feudal regimes cling to power, would a post-Saddam Iraqi regime produce the stable democracy that George Bush and Tony Blair hope to see emerge? If the post-Taliban regime in nearby Afghanistan is anything to go by, with assassinations of government ministers and rampaging warlords, then this expressed aim of Western governments will remain unfulfilled. Indeed, the motley crew of pro-imperialist exiles that make up the Iraqi National Congress and other opposition groups are hopelessly split and remain tainted in the eyes of Iraqis as former members of Saddam's political and military elite. And the chances of such a disparate band reaching an accord with the equally split pro-capitalist Kurdish nationalist forces in northern Iraq are also utopian. Any pro-Western regime in Baghdad would, therefore, be dependent upon US army troops to remain in power. Behind the US propaganda about its former ally, Saddam Hussein, lies the strategic aims of imperialism - to maintain its hegemony in the region, secure its oil supplies and to have a non-belligerent regime in power in Iraq. But if Bush temporarily suspends a military invasion and continues the US policy of "containing" Saddam, this will result in a continuation of the misery and suffering ordinary Iraqis have endured due to the crippling effects of trade sanctions. The long-suffering masses of the region cannot look to Bush and Blair for an end to their crushing poverty and the overthrow of their oil-rich reactionary rulers. There is no capitalist escape route for the working class and rural poor in the Middle East out of their plight. Only by creating independent workers' organisations with a socialist economic programme of nationalising industry under democratic workers' control and fighting for an internationalist solution to the problems of nationalities, can the enormous oil wealth be redistributed poverty eliminated and wars banished. |
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Comments (23 of 23)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23Why are you reprinting an article from the UK Socialist Party paper? Do you feel its so important that activists _here in Ireland_ are told why Tony Blair is a Bad Man? Are you incapable of providing a link? Why don't you just put it on your own website?
This is a useful resource, you should treat it with a little more respect.
Ray man, we can make up our own mind on articles from the newswire topic headings. I will read what I want and ignore what I don't want- please extend this courteosy and stop posting your inane, anal little comments after articles, that you have a problem with.
and I wouldn't have found it if it hadn't been copied here.
Ray, do you have to post your comments? Your comments are not relevant to me. Are we incapable of deciding for ourselves what to read? How do you know what happens in another country is not relevant to our lives wherever we live? Is what happens in Castlebar relevant to me if I live in Drogheda? Or Wexford? Who are you to decide? If you don't like what you read just go onto the next posting. It is kind of like, well, turning the page on a newspaper.
The problem with this attitude - I'll post whatever interests me, and ignore it if you don't like it - is that indymedia has real constraints on space. Sure, articles that get pushed off the front page will still exist further back in the newswire, but the further back they go, the less people will see them. So the more people post cut-and-paste jobs like this, the less room there is for original reports, or articles about events in Ireland.
Its also lazy. Even if this was an especially interesting article, why is the whole thing being posted? Why not just a link to the page where it first appeared? Because the poster is lazy. Too lazy to write a summary talking about the article, and far too lazy to actually write a new article themselves - unfortunately not too lazy to select 'Cut' and 'Paste', and share with us all an article discussing Tony Blair and a poll in the Daily Mirror.
The Irish IMC should be an important resource, full of independent journalism and important information. But if people keep treating it as their personal weblogs, or as a clearinghouse for their party's articles, or keep acting as if copying articles from other news sources is 'journalism', then this place will collapse.
Everyone is free to write what they want - that doesn't mean that everything you write (or copy) belongs on the IMC.
Everyone is free to read what they want - that doesn't mean that everything you want to read should be available on the IMC.
The IMC is a shared resource, not your playground. Grow up.
Indymedia does become a clearing house of articles that could be found anywhere.
It be much simpler and considerate for the authors of these posts to include a summary, or editorial, and then the link.
I think Ray's absolutely right, and the comparsion to section 31, is unfair and obnoxious. Indymedia would be a cleaner more effective tool if people listened to him.
Ray is right. Just post a brief summary and a link/s to the article. If we're interested enough we'll check the link/s.
Ray where do you find the time to read every single left wing site on the net. Regardless of whether or not cut and paste jobs are all that bad, how the hell do you know where every single article comes from. I'm worried for(about) you ray, really worried.
Its very simple, Paul.
I copy a sentence from the article into Google, and it turns up the source.
And yes, cut-and-paste jobs are that bad, because they drive original and relevant articles off the front page, meaning that fewer people see them.
You'll just have to copy the sentence into google yourself.
As you read above im a boring fart who decides to search and re search all articles through a search engine.
I enjoy running naked through parks and playing with puppys.
Sorry for boring you all.
Yours
Ray
Indymedia Ireland is in bad need of an on site search engine.
Its all too often that good articles are lost and never to be found again.
The group in England have one, as do most indymedia's, why is this one an exception.
Likewise, Tony Blairs actions effect Ireland as well as the world. Ray by your comment it seems to may that you are of the attitude that if a war in iraq occurs, its not our problem because its in the middle east.
Well Ray does it matter if this article was written in England? I dont so. Its an interesting article.
Your question " Do you feel its so important that activists _here in Ireland_ are told why Tony Blair is a Bad Man?"
Is rather foolish, as we all know that Blair is "Bad man" as you say, and as I mentioned above his actions effect Ireland North and South [Calling Blair a bad man does not attempt to cover his entire charactor]
Finally Ray and indeed Indymedia. alot of articles written here are pasted, or are public notices.
The IMC is becoming far to censor minded and dominated by the same names and is beginning to become boring.
Perhaps it should take a leaf out of IMC UK who get articles up on time and update them properly likewise it isnt dominated by Boring shites and yuppies and anarchos.
This is a report. so what if its pasted, does anyone care, people will still read it or not.
Indymedia nor Ray have no right to choose what people can and cant read.
further articles that were pasted on Indymedia:
1.Yesterday's arrests at Dutch embassy.
2.the Vatican lacks honour (A truely worthless piece of shite)
3.schNEWS - alternative news
4.A talking head from Washington, D.C (Absolutely worthless information)
and many more. And yet do Ray and Aiden say anything? No. (Well Aiden is just jumping on the bandwagon nothing new there.)
So please Indymedia and Ray DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO. DONT TELL ME WHAT TO READ. I CAN DO THAT MYSELF.
RAY SAYS:
"Everyone is free to write what they want - that doesn't mean that everything you write (or copy) belongs on the IMC.
Everyone is free to read what they want - that doesn't mean that everything you want to read should be available on the IMC."
Well tell us Ray what do we want to read...What do we want to see?
O Tell us great leader what should be on Indymedia?
Dont get me wrong but how is simply posting the address going to make a difference to postings on the newswire ? Likewise is that not the same as ya know ehh copying and pasting? It isnt real journalism is it?
Just a thought
http://www.socialistyouth.cjb.net/
Cheers for the bandwagon jibe, glad to know I'm annoying people.
The fact is the editorial team is a tad short staffed at the moment, people are on holidays or at ecotopia.
As for the search engine we're beta testing new software with the search engine. And reclaim Indymedia if you're so passionate about Indymedia come on board and help out.
-Ray by your comment it seems to may that you are of the attitude that if a war in iraq occurs, its not our problem because its in the middle east.-
That's not my attitude at all. I've been on many anti-war demonstrations, and I think people should be kept informed about developments in the middle east. But that doesn't mean that every time someone writes an article about Iraq or Afghanistan it should be posted on the IMC.
There is no reason why all interesting articles should be reprinted on here. People are perfectly capable of visiting other sites themselves. If there is an interesting article somewhere else, or a useful site with lots of information, then POST A LINK. Let people know where to go.
The IMC title bar says this site is for "the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth". That's CREATION. Not just copying stuff you've read elsewhere, but writing something yourself.
The article above isn't news. It isn't an original report that someone wrote. And it doesn't relate to the Irish anti-war campaign - it is obviously for a British audience, who have different concerns. The British anti-war movement is opposing the sending of troops, the Irish movement is opposing a stopover. They direct their protests at Blair, ours are directed at Bertie. It doesn't belong here, and its pushing more relevant stuff off the front page.
-Finally Ray and indeed Indymedia. alot of articles written here are pasted, or are public notices-
Public notices are fine, if they're about stuff in Ireland, or that Irish people may be doing something about. You're not stupid, you know the difference.
-Indymedia nor Ray have no right to choose what people can and cant read.-
Nobody is telling you what you can or can't read. But Indymedia is perfectly entitled to decide what it will or won't publish here.
This site is not the whole of the internet. It doesn't have to cover everything - it CAN'T cover everything. But if people try to put everything on here, then the valuable stuff that is unique to indymedia will be killed off. And I'm perfectly willing to put up with idiotic insults about Section 31 if I can do something to stop that happening.
- why didn't Ray say something about -
1.Yesterday's arrests at Dutch embassy. -
Because it relates to a campaign going on in Ireland. Its a news story that isn't being covered by the mainstream press. Its exactly the kind of thing that _should_ be on here.
2.the Vatican lacks honour (A truely worthless piece of shite) -
Which article is that?
3.schNEWS - alternative news -
Someone has already given out to the poster for this. (Incidentally, I wouldn't mind if Schnews were linked to occassionally, as not everyone has heard of it. But I don't think it should be posted in its entirety, and it shouldn't appear here every week)
4.A talking head from Washington, D.C (Absolutely worthless information) -
Put up for amusement value, obviously. As long as it's a once-off, I wouldn't mind too much.
-Well tell us Ray what do we want to read...What do we want to see? -
You don't get it, do you? You can read whatever you like, and you can see whatever you like. Playboy, What Car?, Socialist Worker, Salon - I really don't care. What I care about is what is published here, on indymedia.
And re: posting links. I agree that its still not real journalism, but I think there should still be a way of pointing out interesting articles to people, and that's an acceptable compromise.
The "links" section of this site appears to still be under construction. A possible solution to this dispute over links and cut'n'pastes would be to construct the section and include links to sites such as Socialist Worker, Counterpunch, Common Dreams, Media Lens, Emperor's Clothes, etc, etc, etc...
This would give IMC readers an opportunity to scan through interesting sites which contain most of the articles that are copied and pasted here...
Just a suggestion...
By the way, I agree entirely with Ray. If you come across an article of interest to Ireland or to groups campaigning in Ireland, write a summary and post a link. It is off-putting to many readers when they come across 2,000-word articles reprinted from the Guardian or the Washington Post or wherever.
Did nothing about the Brits in the Six COunties- sided with the DUP against anti sectarianism rally- fucking losers and their one man show
Sinn Fein are in the gov in the six counties now though aren't they? We haven't changed our position. We said the armed struggle would fail in the late sixties and it would simply cost thousands of lives and not succeed in pushing out the brits. 30 years later we have the same line. Your problem is with the prodestant people, the brits couldn't give a toss about the north. This has been obvious for years. Of course your vision of a catholic celtic united ireland will never appeal to prodestants, and why should it? Until SF rejects its narrow one sided nationalism ireland will never be united. The Provos turned out to be the greatest barrier to a united ireland it will take generations to get over there campaign. And now sectarianism is as bad as ever. Nationalism is destructive and devisive, you can't unite an island by dividing its people.
You say we did nothing about the 'Brits' in the north in the past 30 years. Well how closer are SF/IRA in removing the British army from the north? Your terrorist tactics have divided working class people in the north further and therefore put the prospect of a united Ireland further away. The reality is that Protestants will not accept a united Ieland on a capitalist basis, a forced united Ireland under capitalism would create a civil war.
Regarding the anti sectarian rally last week. We did not 'side with the DUP'. The DUP opposed the rally because they are an extremeist sectarian party. We raised several critisms, we believe that the labour movement should lead the fight against sectarianism and should not be courting the support of the 4 main sectarian parties, business organisations or churches. I would like an SF supporter to answer the question, where were you on Jan 18? On January 18 a half day general strike took place in the north against sectarianism lead by the postal workers. On that day Gerry Adams wrote in the Irish News that he wouldn't support the strike or oppose the strike and that he heard arguments for and against going on strike. This position was an utter disgrace and exposes the true nature of SF.
Ray there is no need to sensor these nutty trotskyists. The origional article was nuts, containing simplistic appeals for workers unity. Does the writer know anything about middle eastern countries? Its no wonder workers turn to religon there instead of nutty left wing groups.