Scrap Partnership: It's time to strike back

by Realist Mon Nov 23, 2009 14:06

Private sector workers have already had their taxes raised and their pay cut because the businesses they are employed by will simply go to the wall otherwise in a shrinking market.

The public sector exists soldely because it is funded by taxpayers, the majority of whom are also working people who do not have secure employment because of the recession.

The government simply does not have income from taxes to continue its current spending and its ability to borrow is restricted.

If it does not cut taxes it must borrow to make up the shortfall or else the IMF will step in and make the decisions for them.

At the moment when the cost of living is falling it is simply unrealistic to expect the government to be able to maintain its current spending the majority of which is public sector pay and social welfare.

No amount of rhetoric about class struggle so going to alter the cruel of facts of life that government spending in all areas must be cut one way or another , sacrificing many services, laying off workers and cutting social welfare and other payments.

by Cathal - WSM Mon Nov 23, 2009 14:28

Realist, the governmnet has many other options to make up the shortfall. Most of the richest people in Ireland don't even pay a penny tax. That could be changed. And they could take back control of the huge oil and gas reserves off our coast that have been just given away. No public service pay or social welfare cuts are neccesary.

by Andrew Mon Nov 23, 2009 15:22

All workers have had the rate of tax they pay raised.

Beyond that

A 90% tax on earnings over 100k would raise 2.1 billion
A cap on public sector wages at 100k would raise 450 million
A 5% wealth tax which excludes farming land would raise 8 billion

In the longer term there is the equivalent of 10 billion barrels of oil off the Irish coasts. This is almost been given away to Shell and other companies at the present. If the government took 70% of this, the rate Russia, Angola and Nigeria among other countries do, this would see 294 billion coming in as these fields are developed.

by Conor. M Mon Nov 23, 2009 18:59

''If it does not cut taxes it must borrow to make up the shortfall or else the IMF will step in and make the decisions for them.''

These are classic scare tactics. As a previous commentator pointed out, there is plenty of revenue in Ireland, its just not FOR Ireland. There is over €500billion worth of oil&gas here. Why cut, when we can raise taxes for the wealthy and tax Shell to good heavens.

'We are going to use your money to help out our friends in the banks who helped facilitate this economic crisis. While we do that, we're going to attack the people who had nothing to do with the crisis, and/or actually got nothing from the Celtic tiger era. If you don't bow down and take it... we're going to call the IMF (we wont really)'. - Brian Lenihan's Diary

by Realist Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:34

"These are classic scare tactics. As a previous commentator pointed out, there is plenty of revenue in Ireland, its just not FOR Ireland. There is over €500billion worth of oil&gas here. Why cut, when we can raise taxes for the wealthy and tax Shell to good heavens."

Are you an economic illiterate?

Government revenue is gathered from business profits and from the wages of workers.

Do you think that you can raise endlessly raise taxes to "good heavens" without any impact whatsoever on businesses and without any knock on effects on government tax revenue?

Money is invested in businesses including Shell for profit. No other reason. That is why economic activity exists. People are investing in enterprises which will increase the amount of money they invested. When enterprises cease to be profitable or lose money they collapse and are broken up to retrieve what money the investors can still get back from their failed investments.

If investors find that too much tax is taken from their profits with the result they do not make the profits they wanted, they do not make any profit or they end up with less money than they initially invested, they will be less likely to invest in Irish business enterprises and they will invest their money elsewhere.

Raising taxes and borrowing to cover public spending is the road to ruin.

Banks borrow money because they know that the debtor will pay them back plus interest. That is why it is profitable to lend money.

If the government does not have the ability to raise the revenue to finance its debts then the borrowers will no longer lend the money.

When profits dry up and businesses go to the wall then tax revenues will plummet and there will be less money for public spending.

by Cathal - WSM Wed Nov 25, 2009 17:40

Do you think the deal oil companies like Shell get in this country is good for the people?

The only chance the state has to get revenue from the resources is through the very low 20% tax rate. And the corporations can write all their expenses off against it, so the exchequer will probably get nothing.