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Tuesday May 13, 2008 22:11
by E - Labour Party
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Comments (18 of 18)
Jump To Comment: 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1I'm glad to see Eamonn Gilmore marking the anniversary of the Labour Partys first great pragmatic coalitionist leader.
If Connolly was prepared to enter a coalition with conservative nationalists in order to further the cause, then there should be no problem with Labour entering a coalition with either FF or FG after the next election.
I had that mug of hot chocolate last night and slept well in the end. Well, I was being a bit tongue in cheek in giving 10 points to Tony Gregory. Not wearing a tie in the Dail was explained by Tony with the words "Half of my constituents don't wear ties". Ever hear of the sans-culottes (1789) ? Tony stood up for Ireland's sans-cravates, including the Moore Street traders who work so hard to scrape a living.
Of course he let Charlie Haughey become taoiseach, but at a price - lots of inward investment for Dublin's decayed inner city, more public authority housing projects, and - something that wouldn't be regarded as a votegetter - a government committment to close the Curragh military detention centre where civilian prisoners were being incarcerated. Somebody had to become taoiseach and Haughey offered practical returns for Tony's vote while FitzGerald the academic statistics cruncher just waffled.
Six months later Tony Gregory voted against a government measure he considered went against the interests of the poorest in Irish society. So I gave him ten points for consistency.
Being left of centre is a relative thing in the real world. Tony Gregory and a couple of other independents have been to the left of Labour. FF has been sometimes to the left of Labour. Labour has often been to the left of its coalition partner FG. And Healy-Ray is a comedian. Most people, politicians and non-pols, move a bit to the centre with advancing years. The permanently radical end up being pure and powerless.
The above points are rhetoric to you because as a supporter of `the Lp of today, your politics are completely divorced from principle, class content etc,
If you like, our debate could focus exclusively on empirical data, and include no reference to anything political at all. This thread began as a debate over the legitimacy of the Labour Party holding a James Connolly comemmoration.
Do you deny that there is no affinity between Connolly's politics and Eamon Gilmore's?
PS: All the examples of taxation you cited, when applied tro ordinary income-earners are indeed regressive, anti-worker measures.
any increase in tax that affects the working class is bad?
How about cigarettes, drink, leaded petrol and smoke producing coal?
I'm always delighted to be invited to debate issues in a free and open site, however there is a problem. The following
"The Labour Party represents the interests of the fat cats in Irish society, their project for a bosses' Europe, and race to the bottom in wages and conditions
The Labour Party puts forward a program which has as its basis the maintenance of the rule of profit in society.It makes no fundamental challenge to capitalism.
The Labour Party are a bosses' party."
Arn't actually points. They're wild flights of rhetoric with nothing provided to back them up. My last one's the favourite - a bosses party.... ohhh that sounds bad.
I also love the fact that Tony "I'm the person who allowed Charles Haughey to become Taoiseach" Gregory is considered more radical because he doesnt wear a tie
Also free education sounds pretty good to me as a leftwing policy
You do the let no favours by mouthing off in such ways, why not be quiet for a while and read a bit more
No. Any move to increase tha tax burden on ordinary workers, especially on such an esential consumer product is not left wing. Left wing policies seek to force bosses and the rich to fork out more to the public purse, not attack the vulnerable.
An historical examination of Labour policy would find left wing policies, but that would have been when the Labour Party was a different beast altogether, organically linked with the mass movement of the organised working class, trade unions etc. I was referring more to the post-1990s LP
Hmm, you have me there now. I'll have to make a mug of hot chocolate and think that one over. Politics gives me sleepless nights.
Would Labour's support for a tax on children's footwear in the Coalition Budget of 1982 ( when Tony Gregory and Sean Dublin Bay Loftus voted against it thereby provoking an election) rate as a left of centre policy in your estimation?
name one left wing labour policy
FAO me:
Me, Connolly kept the ISRP intact in some form throughout his life, including after the formation of the Labour Party.
As far as LP being a cath-all wprking class organisation, representing all strands of working class political opinion, you would have been right until recently. The meaninfgful participation of organised workers in the LP at a rank and file level is a thing of the past, and seems unlikely to return.
Even the LP youth organisation voted to endorse the Lisbon treaty, undeniably a bosses' project for the increasing subordination of human beings' lives to the market.
Devote your time to the forging of a new mass party of the workibg class, not to defending the shipwreck that is the LP
I'd say Bertie was more socialist than some of the smoked salmon eaters, but everything is so relative these days. Michael D. Higgins has been there for many a year as a lithmus test for Labour commitment to left of centre policies.
My ratings:
Labour 1
Fianna Fail 2.45
Tony Gregory (who never wore a tie in the Dail) 10
Jackie Healy-Ray (- 7.5)
Enda (- 5)
To all those who seek to equate the politics of James Connolly with those of the Irish Labour Party:
James Connolly stood as an unambiguous partisan of the working class throughout his life
The Labour Party represents the interests of the fat cats in Irish society, their project for a bosses' Europe, and race to the bottom in wages and conditions
James Connolly advocated a revolutionary break with the exploitative capitalist system.
The Labour Party puts forward a program which has as its basis the maintenance of the rule of profit in society.It makes no fundamental challenge to capitalism.
James Connolly was a socialist, a revolutionary and a Marxist.
The Labour Party are a bosses' party.
I invite anyone to challenge the above points
If you were judging on a scale of one to ten, with number one being the least radical "labour" party in Europe, and number ten being the most radical, where would you place the Irish Labour party?
(I'd say they would be at about one.)
Connolly wore one
Just look at all those lovely suits.
Great to see the Labour Party rediscovering their roots,maybe its the shape of things to come ?
Close to 100 members of the Labour Party, SIPTU and relatives of James Connolly attended the commemoration
The speech of the Party Leader can be found here http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1210770320328059.html
As well as the oration from Eamon, SIPTU President Jack O'Connor spoke and Jimmy Kelly (SIPTU) sang 'James Connolly'. The commemoration was concluded with the Last Post, the National Anthem and the raising of the Tricolour.
The Labour party was founded by Connolly (& Larkin) to be a catch all party.
Connolly had experimented with establishing a purely Marxist party with the ISRP and had come to the conclusion that there needed to be a braoder catch all representing all traditions within the trade union movement - "a parliamentary outpost of the industrial army"
A conclusion his son Roddy Connolly also came to when he was elected as a Labour TD during WW2
So don't speak so authoritatively on a subject you don't know much about
Yeh I can see the great marxist james connolly supporting the labour party of today especially their decision to back and and campaign on the neo liberal con job that is the lisbon treaty. Have you even read his writings because your politics and ideology are way way way off. I wish your party would refrain from using the memory of connolly.