Sapienza University staff & students unite to block Pope - "Galileo again"

by + ora pro nobis Tue Jan 15, 2008 14:58

Being willing to help people in ways possible, I've just gone to the bother of finding a pdf file which though written in Italian will get any ex-RC trhrough the first hurdle of a formal declaration of auto-ex-communication.
Coz it's like this, you might hold political or social beliefs which have already ex-communicated you.........but nobody has noticed yet. so go here and download the italian pdf file
http://www.uaar.it/laicita/sbattezzo/sbattezzo-modulo-p...o.pdf
all the instructions are here
http://www.uaar.it/laicita/sbattezzo/#09
here's an article in English on Wired about how demand on that Italian site (RC church claims 90% of Italians are RC but only 30% go to mass) http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/06/deb...ptism which also explains how you can do the whole thing "online" & just to keep it all on track here's a blog space just created today for all you Italian students from that same website bunch (UAAR) to support the current Pope bashing thing at the Roman university which of course is explained above. I'll work on getting the "auto-ex-communication" thing up in English (& Gaeilge) later.
http://uaarultimissime.wordpress.com/

by iosaf .:. ipsiphi Tue Jan 15, 2008 22:32

english :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7188860.stm
italian :
http://www.unita.it/view.asp?IDcontent=72093
http://www.rainews24.rai.it/notizia.asp?newsid=77635

sure he had it coming.
he shouldn't have turned his back.
Now the formal excommunication package will be available in a fair few languages to those who no longer wish their religious affiliation to be claimed by the RC church. Don't worry if you change your mind about it later (perhaps under a better papacy) they have to let you back in as long as you say a whole creed.

a lot of toasting went into getting that cheese to stick..,

by it wobbles Tue Jan 15, 2008 23:24

Once a catholic, always a catholic, taking your proud part in the one billion plus dipped in holy water crew together with Nicholas Sarkozy & Carla Bruni. The Italians, Prodi & Berlusconi have already given Benedict XVI complete support. Despite security issues being ruled out 4 hours ago Europe's right wing press typified by "The Daily Telegraph" will go with the tasty target angle of a bunch of masonic scientists taking on the pope with antimatter weaponry. But we're only getting one side of the story. Padre Pio will be exhumed & on devotional display from late Spring onwards. Put that on your trump cards. It's never been better to be one type of catholic than ever before. All the temptation of economic freedom & consumerism guaranteeing providence with a really traditional fascist lifestyle.

___________________________
this is part of the statement to the media by the rector of the University published tonight:-

(AGI) - Rome, Jan.15 - "I have given the students an area where they may discuss and exchange opinions, and above all think over the issues linked to the death penalty, which is the topic the inauguration of the academic year is based on. That's what Rome University 'La Sapienza' rector, Renato Guarini said, informing the reporters about the area granted for the morning of 17 January, when Pope Benedict XVI is expected to attend the inauguration of the academic year. Guardini pointed out that "La Sapienza is a free university, there will be no anti-riot police deployed, because democracy has always prevailed here....Should there be tension, that will be due to infiltrations. Students may enter and exit the university freely, as long as they are actually students. I shall not tolerate infiltrations, and I hope the students may organise themselves on their own, ensuring some order". Guarini also said he doesn't agree with the stance some professors took, openly declaring they oppose the visit of the Pope, because some of them "have manipulated the students. History tells us there have been many bad teachers". When reminded that some of the professors behaved in a lay way, Guarini said we should watch out, "because the risk is that of becoming lay extremists". He also said it is not the first time a Pope attends the inauguration of an academic year: it already happened 10 years ago with John Paul II. "The Pope - he said - comes as a man of culture". When reminded about the Pope's position in terms of science-related issues, Guarini replied that "these topics can be dealt with through dialogue and debate". When asked if he had to ask permission to the Vatican to grant the students some specific areas, he replied that "La Sapienza is a free university and I don't have to ask permission to anyone".

_________________________

New York Times
“Following the well-known events of recent days,” said a Vatican statement released Tuesday, “it seems opportune to delay the event.” The statement said that a text of the speech, which was to have been given on Thursday, would still be sent to the university.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/world/europe/16pope.h...world

Avoiding scientists' protests, pope cancels university speech
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvbN4Kwx6YEGz48iXeT...1LnyQ

by .:. Wed Jan 16, 2008 21:45

The Vatican have tonight released the text of the speech which the pontiff of the RC church would have given tomorrow at Sapienza university. It is already being selectively misquoted in the right wing press, so I thought to link to it (it's in Italian) & comment on how Ratzinger dwellt somewhat on John Rawls.

Rawls was a political philosopher & author who towards the end of his lfie plonked right behind Bill Clinton. The very weird Isaiah 11 got in there too as did the now typical Ratzi style nod to any Greek philosopher (as long as it's not Aristotle). This time it was Socrates who got a mention along with Habermas.

But not one mention of Galileo.

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/news/21453.p...ng=en

__________________________

Meanwhile the RC church has called for a public demonstration in Rome this Sunday to express support for the pope. Not risking much there, are they? One generally expects to see plane loads of people in all types of physical condition out on the square admiring the Belini on a Sunday.

read about Rawls & if you really want to creep yourself out, read Isaiah 11 - & just in case you're wondering, Rawls wasn't a catholic. That's the thing with Ratzinger's trad. fash. recipe - he never quotes catholics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rawls

by flat earther Thu Jan 17, 2008 17:07

daft protest.

link to what he actually said

he was miss quoted again quoteing some philosipher.

by staring at planets Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:14

It's a simple thing which since we all accept Galileo and Newton now has very little political value, but if you're awake & are going to be in the next hours - take the time to look at the low horizon where the two brightest planets of the solar system will appear to an earthling to allign or converge in the south west.

Don't go all silly & think this is aliens or even worse a great big star sent by God to harken the birth of some avatar, messiah, antichrist or genetically enhanced human baby in a lab just 35 km north of the Brazilian border with either Venezuela or Colombia.

It's just pretty shit - which is free - regular like clockwork yet once in a lifetime. it's the little things that count. & just in case it is some GME monstrosity, never fear - we're dropping very toxic shit on the seven suspect hatch-zones. better safe than sorry is the motto. don't leave spore in the chamber.

bang bang.

:-)

by one earther Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:09

Flat earther has provided an interesting link, viz. a long quotation form Ratzi's own speech on the Galileo case. It is interesting that Ratzi quotes from three modern scientists, including a noted marxian one, to show that as scientific discoveries accumulate it is logical for previous scientific assertions to be re-evaluated in the light of new data and theoretical speculation. Hence 20th century scientists have reconsidered heliocentric and geocentric ideas about the universe.

Epistemologists (people who philosophise about knowledge) have since ancient greek times pondered how we come to know and how we can verify what we know. One 20th century physicist and philosopher was Karl Popper, who pointed out that there can be many uncertainties about physical science because physical phenomena need human observers for data gathering and interpretation, and errors can be made by the human observers. These errors can be physical (problems with eyesight and other senses, or with observation and measurement instruments) and hermeneutic (processes of interpretation of data, sometimes incomplete data).

Many great scientific advances have been made by glorious accident while scientists were doing something else - Graham Bell's discovery of the telephone or the discovery of penicillen - or by inspired guesses, such as Archimedes displacing water while getting into his bath or Hamilton's discovery of the quaternions. So not all science advances scientifically i.e. by methodical observation and experimentation. But of course all scientists try to verify their discoveries and theories.

The epistemology of science is a continuous process of pondering. Ratzinger was right to quote modern scientists who are examples of this. His speeches are more subtle than his detractors make out.

by BB Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:32

that's why he has enjoyed so many good conversations with excellent minds. He's never hidden his acceptance of marxist (or post marxist) economic theory & anyone who plays that much piano is bound to be "well sophisticated". Yep - he'd be a good dinner guest, maybe even an excellent weekender - learn from him & spar with him. I admit I engage with the references in his writings in a way I can't with the tunnel vision supposed followers of many individuals who have enjoyed in their time a sparring match or dinner or weekend with him. But that's not what he is about anymore. He is no longer the star intellectual of the Roman church, nor even the rottweiller of Roman dogma - he's the pontiff complete with all the magical powers.

He's now an utterly shite pope who let's get nitty gritty - broke the rules of succession.

& the only hat he's ever worn other than the whole range of papal antique fancy dress has been the tricorn of the Spanish guardia civil. he is an utterly shite pope. - excommunicate yourself in writing if you're a catholic & don't go back till you've they give you a less intellectually rigorous pope who people just like or ignore - you know - like the last one. Hell - why not exhume the last one? Good enough for Padre Pio must be good enough for Karol Wotyla.

(no religious beliefs were actually harmed in the writing of this comment - it's just smoke & mirrors. some gay people aren't your friends & you're too scared not to see that. incoherent rant.......vueling & clickair budget airlines with combined fleets of 50 jets are in merger talks - the budget air alliances across europe's key routes are consolidating - if you want to see attacking o'leary a different way. bout time too. you could have budget travel & be treated nicely too. even if you were working class. so sell that stock tomorrow & force reweighting of ryanair & by thursday next you'll see ripples on the FF confidence. know it all that I am - I'd make a shite pope too.......... )

by one earther Fri Feb 01, 2008 13:05

An interesting stream of consciousness, but what about the epistemology of physical science?

The Ratzinger who published twenty-five books before being elected pope is still the same sentient being today. He has published one new book and two encyclicals since that election, so his subtle mind is still ticking over.

by epistles Fri Feb 01, 2008 17:59

interesting and salivating attraction to 'empire'.

by patient Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:39

The writer promised hyperlinks to excommunication forms in the first comment, now that we
have passed the vernal equinox, its time for them to be published?

by author Fri Mar 28, 2008 00:19

A group of feminists in Spain excommunicated themselves using slightly different a formula in the last month. I hadn't forgotten my promise to supply hyperlinks to those readers who either wish register their displeasure with the leadership of the Roman Catholic church which still counts them as "faithful" thanks to their baptism as infants or those others who don't believe a word of it anymore.

But as it turns out it's not so simple for citizens of states in the supposed liberal democratic political & anglo-saxon legal tradition. In both Spain and Italy (the examples I'd like to see copied) the parents ID numbers and "family books" are recorded along with the baptism cert. But in Ireland, UK and USA where no common ID system other than driving license or RSI, NI or "green card" number is used & certainly not granted to infants or recorded at parochial offices by curates raised in a fascistic tradition of beurocracy - it's not to so easy to ensure the destruction or cancellation of the documentation.

Odd no?

give me some more time.