Another Provo Resignation

by Jimbo jones Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:44

Unfortunately nearly all strains of Irish republicanism whether reformist, militarist or quasi revolutionary share one common characteristic, they are all authoritarian. All look to a leadership who they majority of their movement are meant to trust and obey. RSF and PSF at their core are no different in that way. It is unfortunate because the historic tradition of republicanism is about democracy as its central theme. When it gets sucked into nationalism and militarism it loses sight of that the primacy of the army, struggle etc. take precedence over the true objective democracy.

Swearing allegiance to a Dail elected by people now dead only enhances that problem.

McHugh took the correct courageous decision. Hopefully now he will draw positive conclusions and continue his journey. He might check out Eirigi a body trying to eveolve a more democratic form of republicanism.

by Pete Brickette Tue Dec 04, 2007 17:26

Provisional Sinn Fein have become nothing more than a bad joke;

Infiltrated at leadership level and no one seeming to give a damn or maybe too scared to give a damn.

Content to administer British rule, happy that Paisley has accepted them under his wing.

Supporting a British Police force and courts. So called 'law abiding citizens' who turn a blind eye to murderous criminals in their ranks.

A leadership who has become wealthier, one certain person having bought a second larger house in his street to which he is building an extension. Property portfolios, bars and other businesses all benefits of being a loyal Provo.

Moving from the Socialist Revolutionary's of Bobby Sands time to the Thatcherites of today, even licking up to the Bush Administration at the drop of a hat.

And as for the grassroots they aren't even allowed to have a tongue in their head.

by Gary Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:02

Armed struggle achieved nothing but stalemate.
The Unionist Protestants are going to be in the majority in Northern Ireland for some time into the future and that majority will style themselves as British until such time as they are persuaded that a United Ireland would be a better deal. Republicans are no less republican because they have gone into government with unionists. When it is demonstrated to unionists that they can work together with republicans then it is not too much of a leap for them to realise that north and south can work together also.
This process will take decades certainly a time period longer than your own life spans.
The alternative is going to back to war, losing the progress already made and returning to a hopelessly divided sectarian society endlessly killing each other without any prospects of advancing the republican cause.

by Pete Brickette Wed Dec 05, 2007 13:41

Provisional Sinn Fein have gone from 'Our Day Will Come' to 'What's the Alternative?'
The Alternative was there, exactly the same in 1973 only it was called Sunningdale.
Those now preaching the loudest about peace were then sending young people out to kill and die even though the majority of Nationalists wanted PEACE. Remember the tens of thousands who had taken to the streets all over the North for PEACE in the 1970s?
I remember the Provos standing at the side of the roads calling them BRIT AGENTS etc.
What has changed? The SHINNERS weren't in a position to take over from the SDLP, so countless lives were lost in the mean time.
Now we have the same Leading Provos adopting the policies of the SDLP even joining the DDPs while just over a year ago they were abusing them for having taken the same step.
YES, ARMED STRUGGLE HAS ACHIEVED NOTHING, I FULLY AGREE.
But neither will Provisional Sinn Fein, their own grassroots are slowly wising up to that fact as are the people.

by Gary Wed Dec 05, 2007 15:11

I'm not excusing what Sinn Fein and the IRA did.
I despised them then and I despise them now.
It took so long for them to realise violence was never going to work.
Your analysis is spot on - they have stolen SDLP clothing.
However a Sinn Fein/DUP administration must be seen to work while the SDLP and moderate Unionists regroup for the next assembly elections when they can be replaced.
The violent extremists on both sides - both Republican and Unionist must understand that peace is permanent. While a remnant of paramilitarism survives there will always be a danger that politics in Stormont will lose the initiative to politics on the streets.

by A Town Wed Dec 05, 2007 22:00

I'm fed up listening to all the crap about Adams moving the IRA away from violence. Anyone who was in the Provos or Sinn Fein from the 80s on knew that they had run out of cannon fodder, namely volunteers willing to operate. The IRA had grown war weary and that was the reason Adams sneaked off behind their backs to negotiate a face saving deal with the Brits.
They dragged it all out to save face, nothing more.

by Class Action Thu Dec 06, 2007 14:01

Did you ever think you would see the day when an Sinn Fein Minister would be out to defeat 3000 women workers in struggle for decent pay?

Sinn Feins La has definately Chukeyed!

by PB Thu Dec 06, 2007 14:50

Changed times from when they used to tell their members to show their faces on the picket lines.
It pays to be seen was the old SF catch phrase.
Now they use the tactics of Thatcher to try and smash the strike.

by solidarity Thu Dec 06, 2007 20:03

support for the strikers from actual Republicans

http://admin2.7.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=8061

by Barry - 32 csm Fri Dec 07, 2007 00:10

Jimbo Jones stated

"Unfortunately nearly all strains of Irish republicanism whether reformist, militarist or quasi revolutionary share one common characteristic, they are all authoritarian. All look to a leadership who they majority of their movement are meant to trust and obey. RSF and PSF at their core are no different in that way. It is unfortunate because the historic tradition of republicanism is about democracy as its central theme. When it gets sucked into nationalism and militarism it loses sight of that the primacy of the army, struggle etc. take precedence over the true objective democracy.

Swearing allegiance to a Dail elected by people now dead only enhances that problem.

McHugh took the correct courageous decision. Hopefully now he will draw positive conclusions and continue his journey. He might check out Eirigi a body trying to eveolve a more democratic form of republicanism."

he might check out 32 csm as well . They managed to identify the lack of democracy and use of rigid , commandantist militarist structures within the republican project as central to its repeated defeats before EirigÍ was even conceived . They also defined democracy at its maximum expression as not only the ultimate goal but the tactic that should be persued by the republican seperatist constituency while Eirigí were still giving Mary Lou rounds of applause . It might be an idea for Eirigí themselves to consider finally engaging with those republicans whose policies they are adopting and adapting , not that theres anything remotely wrong with that . They shuld be commended for their approach no matter how late in the day , as should Gerry McHugh and Im sure the others who will follow his example . But engagement and democratic unity must happen sooner or later , and the sooner the better .

Gerry McHugh is now echoing what so many republicans have been saying privately and in public for a very long time . The sinn fein project has been a century of utter disaster , it must be identified as such before another project can be constructed . A new republican project is now a feasible alternative . The demand for one is growing by the month regardless of electoralism . Democracy must be at its core and founding principles , regardless of the form it takes or name it adopts . Or names .

Id also question the view that Irish republicanism shouldnt be " sucked into nationalism" . The republican seperatist cause is by definition a nationalist cause , as well as a progressive left wing one . That your website quotes Sartres foreword on Fanons Wretched of the Earth should leave you in no doubt that nationalism is an essential to any anti colonial project . If Pearse Connolly and Fintan Lawlor hadnt made that clear before him .

by fti Fri Dec 07, 2007 18:54

barry neither eirigi nor rsf or anyone with any sense at all will be going anywhere near that "republican unity" project of the irsp's.

by Barry - 32 csm Fri Dec 07, 2007 19:50

i was talking about this one

http://www.32csm.org/repun.htm

by Patrick Henry Fri Dec 07, 2007 20:50

What a year for the Shinners, since they were forced to support the PSNI and the British Judicial system, which means they have to been seen tripping over each other calling on the Catholic / Republican community to report everything, unlawful in the Unionists eyes, to the PSNI.

Then we have them adopting Maggie Thatcher tactics with the Classroom assistants, as well as taking a leaf out of Widgery's book of excusing Murder in the case of Paul Quinn.
Talk about learning from the past.

I wonder what's in store next year?