Student tazered and arrested in the US...

by iosaf Wed Sep 19, 2007 17:54

http://indymedia.ie/article/84270 Students get tazered all the time in the US, just put tazer and student or tazer and university or campus through the search engines. Even in Florida where this incident occured tazer-use is complained about many hundreds of times a year. What is really interesting about this case was the "impeachment" line the young man used & the spin which followed when a rival newspaper in Florida took up the story and linked to a different youtube video. They decided the man had a history of pranks. & of course that's how it was picked up in the British press today.
http://indymedia.ie/article/84270

by Miriam Wed Sep 19, 2007 17:57

http://www.johnkerry.com/2007/9/18/kerry-statement-on-f...ident

by Miriam Wed Sep 19, 2007 21:59

Sorry Io - didn't spot you'd covered this already. This thread will probably be be bzzzzzhhhhttttted within seconds! Proper order too!

by Sceptic Wed Sep 19, 2007 23:39

"The US is in no position to lecture any other country about democracy or human rights abuses:"

It was wrong but it is a single incident in a nation of 300 million people. Fairly drastic to be drawing such sweeping conclusions! For instance it was not these non-lethal guns that were used against the Chinese pro democracy students in 1989 who perished by the hundred. I hope you feel as proportionally indignant about that and similar atrocities.

by Seán Ryan Thu Sep 20, 2007 01:24

There are many examples as to why the US is not fit to lecture on democracy or human rights abuses. This article and Iosaf's served to highlight only one of them. For you 'skeptic' to be claiming that this example is the only example is beyond belief.

Here's another one. Back in July of this year, a 70 year old woman was viciously beaten and arrested by a police officer. Here's a link to the story from your beloved BBC: - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6282348.stm

This case found its way into the American halls of justice on Tuesday of this week: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_6934574 The frail and elderly lady has pleaded not guilty to the charges of not watering her lawn (she couldn't afford to, what with the cost of living and the town being in a drought) and not guilty to resisting arrest.

The mayor and the city council had already apologised, the police department had disagreed with how the police officer had handled the incident.

However it cannot be said that nazi's don't look after their own. The city attorney is prosecuting her and a state investigation found that Officer James Flaygate had acted properly in arresting the great-grandmother.

Of course that's only one other example. I'll be happy to supply many more, one for each piece of propaganda you interject in your attempt to act as an enabler for fascism.

by William Thu Sep 20, 2007 02:22

Does a seasoned, non-office holding politician like John Kerry need this kind of security on a college campus? By accepting an invite to talk to students he knows he's not addressing a catchall public like what happens when presidential candidates go barnstorming around the country.

OK, that student questioner said something like, "I'm informing you before I ask my question" and then went on to make a straggling speech about disenfranchisment of black voters in the Florida vote. This student was obviously, from his body language, in a state of nervous animation, and stretched the patience of the invited speaker. He should have come to his question sooner. But John Kerry, experienced in addressing college students, should have called on the police to cool it.

At no time did it appear that the questioner/speech maker was going to attack Kerry. His life wasn't in any danger. This sorry episode is an over reaction by police - an echo of the vindictive, near-deadly way LA police handled Rodney King some years ago.

by redjade Thu Sep 20, 2007 06:07

Question 'Does a seasoned, non-office holding politician like John Kerry need this kind of security on a college campus?'

Answer It was not his security - it was university cops. Kerry had no authority over the cops.

-- -- --

meanwhile in florida....

Quote
Within an hour of her call to 911, Delafield, a wheelchair-bound woman documented to have mental illness, was dead.

Family attorney Rick Alexander said Delafield's death could have been prevented and that there are four things that jump out at him about the case.

"One, she's in a wheelchair. Two, she's schizophrenic. Three, they're using a Taser on a person that's in a wheelchair, and then four is that they tasered her 10 times for a period of like two minutes," Alexander said.

According to a police report, one of the officers used her Taser gun nine times for a total of 160 seconds and the other officer discharged his Taser gun once for a total of no more than five seconds.
/end Quote
http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512

by Sceptic Thu Sep 20, 2007 06:53

It is not a question of lecturing other States No country is perfect and upholding certain values is not contradicted by instances of police or security guard misbehavior or departure from best practice in some cases. Upholding human rights is not saying that abuses cannot happen but that there are remedies for righting them when they do. Thats what the investigation and justice system is about as well as a free press - calling people to account including those in some positions of authority. The whole thrust of the argument is flawed - one security guard uses a tazer wrongly and the entire edifice of the US Federal Government must desist from promoting values as a result? It does not follow.

by Miriam Thu Sep 20, 2007 08:32

We are talking about a country where two presidential elections have been corrupted in order to secure power for a violent and undemocratic administration which has so far caused the deaths of more than one million people in Iraq alone. Its history of violent interventions in other countries over the last 50 years utterly disqualify it from lecturing any other country about democracy and human rights. It's support for fascist juntas and other violent dictatorships is a matter of record. It has murderously undermined legitimately elected governments in order to achieve these outcomes - it has encouraged torture. The US economy has benefitted from the power and advantage it secured by these actions - as have many US citizens though not the poorest, naturally. Too many American people have avoided confronting the truth about their own history and are happy to parrot the mindless propaganda fed to them by their media - all that 'we are the greatest democracy' bullshit that they have to believe in order to continue their excessive lifestyle - the US being the most polluting country in the world.

This video plainly shows an American citizen being bound and then tortured for attempting to hold an elected representative to account. The US government is the greatest threat to world peace and stability we have ever seen - violent, arrogant and greedy - whether Democrat or Republican. Let ordinary American people attend to the democratic deficit in their own country if they are concerned about human rights abuses either at home or elsewhere and certainly before they send their sons, daughters, wives husbands or whoever to issue violent instruction to the innocent people of other countries. The incident in Florida is a shocking example of how depraved the US really is. We can criticise Iraq and Iran as much as we like but when it comes to turning the spotlight on the US we are made to feel it is an outrage that it should be held to account for anything it does. What is this collective myopia about telling it like it is where the US is concerned? Why is there one rule for them and another entirely for everyone else?

by Melanie Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:09

Its in other press twice!

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84270

by Righteous Pragmatist Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:20

Meyer is clearly a nut - he claims Bush stole the 2004 election and Kerry knew he was the true victor but surrendered? He claims that Bush should be impeached for overthrowing a dictator, attempting to give Iraqis democracy and fighting Islamic terrorists? He claims that Bush and Kerry were in the same club in college so they are really in cohoots?

Meyer shouldn't have been tazed - he should be marched down to the nearest USMC recruitment office and shipped out to Iraq where he can see how freedom of speech is being protected from the enemies of civilisation - Islamic extremists.

by Kursk Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:44

During the public hearings on the Kursk disaster , a woman relative confronted the military
committee- she was injected by a female nurse whilst standing in the crowd asking
her question ... and then she was dragged off (to god knows where). The big bastards
who utilise people to further military action and do not care for 'collateral damage'
(families, children, sweethearts) do not like the questions being asked. the democrats
are in the meantime flaunting 'radical health-care reforms', under the authorship of Ms Clinton
that does not address the huge homeland problems evinced in the failure of successive
administrations to the ordinary people who face tragedy and disease as a result of
poor infrastructure development, universal health insurance, corporate hospitals and all the
bogeys of white enrichment in amongst other places- New Orleans.

The US is the new third World- they just dress it up in nylons, as my grannie says:-
'Fur coat, no knickers'

Thats jut in case anyone thinks the US is anything but a military union-

by Andrew Meyer Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:47

We hear it on the news almost everyday.
"At least 18 people were killed when two car bombs exploded in a busy market…”

It happens so frequently at this point that we have become desensitized to the message.

“Eleven more died when a minibus blew up in the Karrada district, while a suicide attack…”

Iraq is thousands of miles away from the United States. When a suicide bomber strikes in the middle of a crowded Baghdad street, leaving mayhem and carnage in his wake, America is largely unaffected. The only thing we hear in the States is the same tired story. Yeah, yeah, suicide bomber, 20-something dead, we’ve heard this one before. But in Baghdad, no one is “over” these attacks. Every new bombing is a deadly and frightening jolt, a senseless thunderbolt of destruction bringing the city to its knees and death to its inhabitants. Yet we in America are so far removed from Iraq, so jaded to the tales of violence in its streets, perhaps the only time we truly feel the human cost of the War in Iraq is when it hits close to home.

Shannon Timmann is a friend of mine. On January 7, 2006, her father was killed outside of Mosul, the biggest city in northern Iraq. He was in one of two Black Hawk helicopters that lost contact with base. “Human error in a storm,” they called it. They don’t know what happened. The helicopters just went down. They just crashed.

In exchange for the life of her husband, Shannon’s mom received this letter from the government:

“Dear Mrs. Timmann:
I extend my heartfelt condolences on the death of your husband. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I am grateful for Robert’s service to our nation and to the Department of State. His dedication and bravery should serve as an example to us all.

Sincerely,

Condoleeza Rice.”

Nice words from our Secretary of State. But that is all they are. Words. Nothing can bring back Shannon’s father, nor the 3,566 other Americans who have died in Iraq to date.

I asked Shannon what she thought of the letter sent from our government. She said it was nice, but, “I mean ….but how many of those do they send a week? It’s just copy.”

Shannon had another letter, sent to her from the Iraqi chief of police. It was heartfelt, and genuinely saddened for the loss that Shannon and the world would feel from Bob’s death.

I watched a video that Bob Timmann filmed in Iraq before he died. He was a good man, and he believed that America was doing good work in Iraq. But what exactly are we accomplishing over there? America invaded Iraq on false pretenses, bogus intelligence that Saddam had WMDs and links to al-Qaeda.

When Cho Seung-Hui killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus, it was like a knee to the stomach of Americans across the country. It was the only story on the news for days, and everyone felt affected, whether they had family or friends at Virginia Tech or not.

If 32 Americans died in a bombing in Iraq today, would the media give the story the full-court press that Virginia Tech got? Would every kid on facebook change his or her picture to a ribbon with the message “We support our troops”?

The story would get lumped in with every other Iraq story, mentioned for a day, and then swept under the rug and forgotten.

Virginia Tech was a tragedy, but you can see that death toll almost everyday in Iraq. And for what? For democracy in Iraq? As if anyone in the U.S. government really cares about the Iraqi people? We are there to make money for Vice President Cheney’s corporation, Halliburton. We are there for oil. When insurgents or terrorists or whatever you want to call them blow something up in Iraq, and kill Americans, its not big news – for a reason. The powers that be do not want a true audit of the War in Iraq, and the cowed American media is more than happy to accommodate them. More than anything, the mainstream media is part of the problem. Now here’s a real tragedy - what it takes to get play in the mainstream media. Billions of dollars are missing from the department of defense, eight U.S. attorney generals were fired in an unprecedented political coup, and the biggest news stories of the year are Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole Smith.

It’s enough to make you think about what the real goal of the news is. Is it to keep the populace as educated and up-to-date on America and world affairs as possible, or is the news like any other business, with the chief goal to make money. The news is designed to keep viewers watching and sedated and not thinking bad thoughts about America, because that would be bad for the economy. Stories about a severely unbalanced budget are out, train wrecks like Paris and Anna are in. A train wreck may be senseless and pointless, but Americans sure do love to watch.

Is it “news” when a toddler accidentally drowns in Lake Michigan? It’s a tragedy, to be sure, but does it affect the world as much as, say, the decisions of the U.S. Federal Reserve, which drastically affects the value of money? The news is a crock of spit, mostly of the bull variety. People need to stop assaulting their brains with garbage, and start educating themselves with books.

If you truly want knowledge on the world around you, try picking up a book. The great thing about books? They have authors who have to do months of research, and actually know exactly what they are talking about. (Unless the author is Bill O’Reilly or Sean Hannity, in which case they can say whatever they want because their audience is a bunch of self-deluded ignoramuses who want to be told what they think they already know.)

Do you care about what’s going on in Iraq? Do you want to know the truth? Start reading. Just now, I typed “Iraq Book” into google and found this: Target Iraq: What the News Media Didn't Tell You. Without even reading this book, I can all but guarantee you that this book has more information than every news story NBC, ABC, and CBS did in 2003, when invading Iraq was still up for debate.

“Deftly separating truth from propaganda, Target Iraq is a hard-hitting expose of the harsh realities and consequences of the pending war and the media's failure to present the full spectrum of issues to the public.”

Why wasn’t this stuff on the news? It isn’t necessarily corporate malfeasance hiding facts. Maybe they just think critical reasoning and big words and knowledge will drive away viewers. Whatever the case, the war in Iraq is still going on, and most of America still doesn’t know why we went there in the first place, or what we’re doing now to get out.

Americans might not care, like when they hear about “just another bombing” in Baghdad, but I’ll bet you a Prius that if Iraq was negatively affecting the price of gas, people would start to give a damn. Maybe they’ll care next time around, when Bush starts talking about “consequences” for Iran. You know, one of two “Axis of Evil” countries that actually has nukes? The one that’s secretly funding the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip? Maybe Iran should start getting some attention. If only they were run by a millionaire debutante famous for nipple slips and a sex tape. Then they might even be news-worthy.

by atomised Thu Sep 20, 2007 14:02

www.theandrewmeyer.com

Long winded incoherent questions being asked of kerry is what it says all over the (corporate) web.

They weren't incoherent.

Meyer was holding his book 'Armed Madhouse' throughout the incident FOR DEAR LIFE.

Greg, its author, once came and supported indymedia ireland bigtime with a public in dublin event that raised a fortune. See what he's saying about it all . I bet he's happy about his book racing up the amazon charts. http://www.gregpalast.com/ He includes somewhere a transcript of what the guy was saying .

This screed above by Mr. Meyer sounds like a manifesto for independent media doesn't it.

If you look at this wired article http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/19/dont-tase-me-bro-t....html you'll see that this guy and the people who videoed his intervention are communicating something on a massive scale.

What that something is is not quite clear yet. Maybe a lot of people will read the book. Maybe that's the embedded message. ARMED MADHOUSE.

The situationists would have been proud of this guy. He was asking the questions for the independent cameras obviously. It was a stick-up in the best sense of the word.

'Christ is a sausage' said a guy who the situationists celebrated for disguising himself as a monk and making it onto the altar of notre dame cathedral in the 1950s.

The thing that made the incident famous was the fact that the cathedral guards had to be prevented killing him with swords after they nabbed him. Ill try to dig up the story.

Meanwhile I like the commentaries here
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2007/09/john-kerry-is-a.ht...ments

by hmmmm Fri Sep 21, 2007 17:59

Nor did the guards attack the letterists who staged the stunt. A conversation between Malcolm McLaren and Stefan Brüggemann led to that. McLaren who I hope nobody would credit with anything, incorrectly reported the "sausage" and included the swiss guards who have nothing to do with Notre Dame. Of the writers associated with either the letterists or situationalists, it was Raoul Vaneigem who brought in the sausage as a kind of writers artistic counterpoint thing to De Bord's more political prose. The incident is written up in English on many websources but always exactly the same. Thus the wikipedia english version is dubious - http://www.answers.com/topic/notre-dame-affair simply because the French equivalent sources are considered dodgey. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationale_lettriste
here's a report english - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_Affair & french http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandale_de_Notre-Dame

This alledgedly what they said :- Today, Easter day of the Holy Year here, under the emblem of Notre-Dame of Paris I accuse the universal Catholic Church of the lethal diversion of our living strength toward an empty heaven I accuse the Catholic Church of swindling I accuse the Catholic Church of infecting the world with its funereal morality of being the running sore on the decomposed body of the West. Verily I say unto you: God is dead We vomit the agonizing insipidity of your prayers for your prayers have been the greasy smoke over the battlefields of our Europe. Go forth then into the tragic and exalting desert of a world where God is dead and till this earth anew with your bare hands with your PROUD hands with your unpraying hands. Today Easter day of the Holy Year Here under the emblem of Notre-Dame of Paris we proclaim the death of the Christ-god, so that Man may live at last. Interestingly there are multiple memories of the incident, ranging in numbers who took part & who actually read the manifesto. Here's another in French http://www.ranska.net/actu/?p=76 but other than the self-aggrandising memory of the writers who said they did it - there is not one extant news or independent source to provide evidence they did.
I suppose they did something. But it didn't provoke as much scandal as they believed. Rather like your man in Florida. If he had got tasered for simply asking why no-one has impeached Bush it might be easier to follow. But instead he suggested Kerry had won the 2004 election and stuck in the "skull & bones" bit. Which I suppose is a tip to anyone who wants their tasering to have lasting effect on the global youtube community. Make it short and to the point.............e.g.........."did your relationship with Celia and your ascension to premier status in any way indicate a move on from Mc Quaid's fatherhood model and figure in your chats at All Hallows?" then say feck and sausage - god is dead . muscular jesus on a cross for your sins. let me go man, you have no right, help, help, they're manhandling me, buzzzzz. They love that.

by atomised Fri Sep 21, 2007 18:53

I read about this I don't know where a long time ago (head like badly made sieve) and remember clearly an illustration in the book which showed reportage of the incident on the front page of an English national newspaper. I also remember something about the guy being mentally ill.

Just because it isn't on the web doesn't mean it didnt have any impact at the time. I'll try to dredge the source up properly since this page'll probably grow into first google hit on the accursed 'sausage or lack of same' incident.

by Seán Ryan Mon Sep 24, 2007 15:37

This clip took place on Sept 14.

It seems that not even the practitioners of local democracy are safe from the police and their newly found sense of omnipotency. This happened after a heated argument in the Rosetown meeting of the Council when a councilman was ordered to leave. The councilman did indeed leave as he was told. The fact that his hands were full as he was leaving the room belies any allegations that he could have either attacked or provoked the policeman who is seen moments later pounding on his head as he straddles the councilman's back.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d43_1190611319

by We the People Mon Sep 24, 2007 23:38

Reading some of the above comments ,I feel that the video link below may explain why the abuses of human rights are commonplace in the former 'Land of the free and home of the brave'.

Is it on the way here?

by tipster Tue Sep 25, 2007 00:05

I've been thinking this one over for a while. The Taser company sell training armour, but only to registered "law enforcement agencies". So, obviously there is a material, which is flexible and relatively lightweight which protects against 2 elements of a Taser strike - (1) penetration by the electrode prongs (2) conduction of the electrical convulsion shock. I have a few ideas on what that material might be, but then surfing about discovered that cops in cold places are instructed to taser the legs (at closer range) of people muffled up in layers of winter clothing.
You could tie a bit of typical bathroom cork matting in strips interlaced with recycled heavy duty tiring & wear that under your fleece or quilt filled slash proof Kevlar hoodie every time you ask an awkard question. But best things to do would probably be (1) run away. (2) ask yer man to put you in a traditional headlock instead & then profit by having read the wikiguide to "getting out of headlocks" (c/f http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_To_Escape_the_Headlock ) or (3) wear a T-shirt with the message I've a Pacemaker in really big letters.

Now the last 2 options are more diversionary than anything else. & I reckon diversion is the way to go for the DIY crew. Rather than prevent the current, perhaps adaption of traditional chain mail design combined with the more "samurai" layered cork thing, might allow you to send the current into something else. Battery pack, I-pod, little helicopter roterblades on your cap.

Laugh & Scoff now. but every problem & challenge finds it counter.

by We the People Tue Sep 25, 2007 00:49

Ta for all the tips but I may not be alive to tell you my one.
This form of .....control is disgusting and should never happen in a so called civilised society.

Tasers are only the tip of whats to come if the People allow it.

by R & D Tue Sep 25, 2007 15:35

Taser use as use of any generic "stun gun" & most handguns is as we know endemic in the USA. Nobody could even begin to argue that the introduction of such a product to policing and security management in the USA has reduced the use of lethal firearms in crime. It is also debateable if the success of the Taser corporation despite protracted law suits on the very issue has reduced deaths or serious injuries at point of detention or arrest.
Taser's penetration in the European market has been slow. Most European jurisdictions consider stun guns to be quite serious weapons & no state to my knowledge [correct me if i'm wrong & add to our data] has given the Taser corp permits to sell their "citizen protection guns" to private individuals. That much said since at least 2005 a variety of European police forces have run trials on Taser use & the majority which did so deciding to adopt to them but then a fair chunk of those encountered civil rights & ombudsmen issues in their full use.
As an example we could trace the history of Taser in the UK.........delightful little history it is too. The first use of a Taser that I'm aware of [correct me if I'm wrong please do expand data] was stopping a male varyingly described as drunk, mad or hairy who tired of something or other led a one man frontal assault on the offices of MI5 straight through their front door on London's Millbank street........delightful no?...........then 2005 a quick police board had to officially explain the niggling doubts which followed such a report & quicker than you could find a news report on that story the UK cops approved the presence of the weapon in their land & ours too by 2006.
http://www.nipolicingboard.org.uk/index/faqs/taser.htm Ah but then the civil rights people started complaining. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/537...4.stm never stopped either.

That all contrasts with my neck of the woods where the full "national" deployment of the Catalan "mossos d'esquadra" saw them quite notoriously take in a few thousand youngsters with attitude, short hair-cuts & not much in the sense of giving directions or being friendly to squatters or dark-skinned people. Without any close attention being given their equipment contracts & expenditure caught up as it was in "nationalist" fervour, they got Tasers & kubatons. [a youtube link which even without language skills will show both toys being demonstrated on brekkie telly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nFJ0_8VZRU&mode=related...arch=

Now here's a little clue, just as above you may find the link to a true & reliable Jujitsu technique for escaping school yard bully headlocks ( http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_To_Escape_the_Headlock ) one could argue that the skilled "low tech" use of such nasty fighting buddhist relics as the kubaton (or pen even) is preferable to the "high tech" use of expensive US Taser stunguns.

But as we all know, the introduction of new weaponry to any police force must not be done on the sly, or in kneejerk reaction to one regretable or shocking incident like the shotgun shooting of a garda as he unwittingly disturbed an armed robber this morning.

Coz we require data & we debate. no shock tactics with us.

by Aragon Wed Sep 26, 2007 09:33

Youtube have taken that video clip down - 'copyright or terms of service violation' - do you have it archived anywhere?

by Aragon Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:29

Seems you can only ever do one version of a story on p.ie - well unless its about Bertie Ahern, the property crisis, the 'problem' of immigration, fighting about homosexuality and other matters of interest to the SSIA savers and investors whose natural home the website is.

A while ago they had a version of this story titled: 'Annoying victim or moron or both' - and off it went in inimitable p.ie style with the consensus being that the guy got what he deserved. Despite the valiant efforts of some voices of reason the thread makes depressing reading:

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=26655&start=24&p...ight=

This morning I posted the story again from a different angle - 'Student tortured for asking John Kerry Questions' and was hoping to get a wider discussion of the use of tasers and the state of US 'democracy'. .

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=26902

It's been locked.

Discussion of editorial decision here:

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=26905&start=0&po...ight=.

by We the People Wed Sep 26, 2007 14:19

One of the functions of Taser Guns is that they can be fired at a distance of around 20 or 30 feet. What exits from the muzzle ,is a long electric wire with a pointed tip that embeds itself in the flesh of the Person. 50,000 Volts is administered on contact.

These tips are used many times over and over which , besides violating the Person's Personal rights, pose a threat to contamination of all sorts. I am unaware that tips are available for every one in the audience. Rising costs and all that you know.