Anti Capitalist No to Nice Campaign needed

by Andrew Mon Jul 22, 2002 16:32

There are at least two anti-capitalist 'No to Nice' campaigns in formation. One of there will be libertarian/anarchist and probably similar in message to the campaign that went on last time, for texts etc see
http://struggle.ws/about/nice.html

This is also being discussed on Irish Anarchism
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irishanarchism/

I also know that a number of independant more leninist inclined socialists are also in the process of forming an anti-capitalist campaign. Don't know too much about this.

Now will we see some other party setting up 'THE anti-capitalist campaign'?

by Baffled Mon Jul 22, 2002 17:13

I understand how anarchists can be opposed to the election of individuals (TDs, MEPs, Councillors etc). And I can understand how Anarchists can vote in referendums (each voter has equal say etc)

But in the Nice Referendum the question is decided by elected 'representatives'. By voting you are surly giving the Oireachtas etc legitimacy to set questions. If you agree with the Oireachtas setting the questions why dont you participate in D¨¢il and Seanad elections?

by Steve Mon Jul 22, 2002 18:41

I hope that a unified anti nice campaign can be established on a countrywide basis. Many groups and individuals are opposed to this anti democratic second referendum. I will co-operate with ANYONE who wants to see the NO side succeed.

by MoI - GR Mon Jul 22, 2002 18:47

Anthony Coughlan's comments about the EU being invaded by hordes of people from the East are disgusting. This shows why there should be a strong anti capitalist campaign that has nothing to do with racist arguments about immigration.

by Amanda Moloney - IMC Ireland volunteer Mon Jul 22, 2002 19:38

Indymedia is making plans for the re-run of the Nice referendum. For the weeks leading up to and during the referendum we are planning to open a temporary centre to which we will be inviting groups to do a series of talks both pro and against the treaty. And also discussions on alternatives to it. We will be inviting groups from all over Europe, particularly from EU countries and countries that are up for enlargement as they will all be affected by the treaty but their publics are not getting a say.
We can’t say for certain at the moment what dates this will be as the government has yet to call a polling date but it will most likely be late October- early November.
We have been told by our government and by EU commissioner Chris Patten that we were stupid and selfish for voting no which is why there is now a movement to invite people in Europe to come here and tell us what they actually think as we know many people are opposed to the treaty but our mainstream media seems to ignore the fact.

Contact [email protected] for further info.

by red Mon Jul 22, 2002 23:32

I am agreed that all on the left must publicaly distance ourselves from the racist comments made by some anti nice campaigners. If we win the no vote it will be sold as a racist, pro life reactionary vote by the media.

by lavender Tue Jul 23, 2002 01:13

There is a desperate need to expose the Nature of EU centralisation and the EU's imperialistic relationships with other countries, it's role in the arms trade, rejection of refugees, Fortress Europe, economic takeover of poor countries natural resources etc. Most of this can best come from people outside Ireland and any decent anti-Nice 2 campaign should focus on these issues.

By the way, red, my vote against Nice will be an anti-imperialist, anti racist pro-life vote. As such it will only be reactionary in that it is reacting against a negative development.

by lavender Tue Jul 23, 2002 01:16

By the way, red, my vote against Nice will be an anti-imperialist, anti-racist, pro-life vote. As such it will only be reactionary in that it is reacting against a negative development.

by Andrew - The Struggle Site Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:20

Reply to Baffeled

Your not all together wrong in that the big problem with referendums is that the question we vote on is set by those in power. The recent abortion referendum was a case in point where although we won we got no more as a result then we already had won 10 years earlier. A related problem is that those in power determine if and when and on what topic we have a referendum. So yes the process is deeply flawed.

BUT we don't see referendums as equivalent to voting for better leaders. The problems with Dail elections are outlined in great detail at the link below. From this you'll see that the key problem, they involve handing over of our power to make decisions to others who are neither mandated not recallable, are not replicated in the referendum vote.

You'll find articles discussing referendums in more detail at http://struggle.ws/wsm/anarchism.html

by Justin - Sinn Fein Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:23 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

I think the idea of a united, national NO to Nice campaign just isn't going to happen. Certain groups are just not going to work together, getting the structures sorted out would be a nightmare. Some groups would want to emphasise different aspects of Nice to others. The best we can work for, and what I would like to see happening is that the various NO to Nice groups co-operate with each other, share platforms on public meetings and demos etc. while each have their own posters, leaflets, newsletters, canvassers etc.

Andrew pointed out that the Anarchists and the 'more Leninist inclined' socialists are building NO to Nice campaigns. I know Sinn Fein's planning is at an advanced stage and I'm sure the Greens and others are already forging ahead. PANA are already distributing quality literature.

The first priority of all these groups must obviously be to beat Nice but crucially, almost as important is to portray this as a left wing rejection of Nice rather than allow the lunatic right claim the credit.

Lastly, congratulations to the indymedia collective for the idea of a forum on Nice. It's an excellent way of stimulating debate and getting the government to come in and defend this nonsense.

by Andrew - The Struggle site Tue Jul 23, 2002 11:02

I agree with Justin that it is unlikely there will be a one size fits all campaign on anti-capitalist terms on Nice. There are some good reasons for this (people want to emphasise different aspects in opposition) and some unfortunate reasons (people being burnt by front groups in the past and so not wanting to work with the parties responsable). But we should seek to co-ordinate our efforts in some ways to avoid for instance some areas being covered by everyone while others are missed altogether.

A good starting point would be an email list that we can announce activities to etc so I've set one up at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/No2Nice
you can join it there OR send an email to [email protected]

I'll run this like global_irl for the moment but what I'd like is for each group campaigning on the issue from at least a vaguely left perspective (to include Greens and SF) to volunteer someone who can become a moderator for the list. Using a system we have had running for IrishAnarchism for some months this can ensure that SPAM and irrelevant content is elimintated without any particular party or group having the power to censor discussion. If you want to do this for your organisation email me at [email protected], people volunteering themselves will do until organisations delegate someone.

by Justin - Sinn Fein Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:33 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Woo-hoo, we're now seen as vaguely left rather than right wing populist neo-fascists. ;)

Slightly more seriously I think the email list is a good idea. So long as we can avoid sectarian nonsense it could be a very useful tool in opposing the Treaty.

by Steve Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:42

When I stated that I would co-operate with any organisation or individual re NiceII, I meant any liberal or progressive organisations/people, NOT RACISTS.

by Blisset Tue Jul 23, 2002 15:45

Money where mouth is guys/gals and plusher the merrier.

by IMCsupporter Tue Jul 23, 2002 22:24

I will co-operate with anyone who wants to see the NO side succeed, except the Socialist Workers Party/Globalise Resistance. Strange though it may sound, not everyone enjoys being fucked over in exchange for the privilege of joining the latest SWP front.

by IMCcog Tue Jul 23, 2002 22:35

I'll support discussion on the Nice treaty.
I'll support people who say we should vote no - for saying we should vote no. Doesn't mean I'll then promote anything else they say, or even their reasons for voting no to nice, but it has to be shown that all the reasons to defeat Nice are stronger than those who want to impose it.

by Mokmy Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:50

In opposition to the first referendum on Nice, in Cork, was a group called: "Cork Says NO to Nice". The people involved in this campaign included WSM, PANA, SWP, Sinn Féin, SP and probably one or two more groups represented as well as non-aligned individuals. Most of these organisations were conducting their own campaigns but it was believed that a cross-party leftish campaign in Cork could bring the message to a wider non-political audience.
The text of the leaflets we produced together in a democratic manner is below. We also held a fundraiser and public information days on Patrick Street and in shopping centres around the City. There was no "sectarianism" and everyone united to defeat the referendum successfully.
Unrelated to the Nice treaty, there currently exists in Cork a group called the Cork Peace Alliance composed of a similarly broad membership as the Cork Says NO to Nice. These people meet every week and make decisions in a manner to the satisfaction of everyone.

It is possible!

Text of Cork Says NO to Nice leaflet (Nice I):

UN Peacekeeping Weakened!

Domestic Irish Decision
Making in many areas Weakened!

Accountability in Defence
and common foreign Weakened!
matters

The European Arms Strengthened!
Industry

The Say of Traditional Strengthened!
Power (eg, England and Germany)

Brussels Power Strengthened!
Building
[in box]

European Army
The treaty of Nice means that the European Union is, for the first time, taking on responsibility for military affairs. The treaty establishes a new political and security committee that will control and direct EU military operations. The Treaty of Nice is just another step towards the creation of a European State, a European Empire - a "World Power". It consolidates the formation of a European Army, the Rapid Reaction Force which will be capable of placing up to 60,000 soldiers into a war situation outside of Europe.

Rapid Reaction Force
The Rapid Reaction Force will operate in tandem with NATO ­ a nuclear-armed military alliance. NATO in recent years, in the former Yugoslavia, has been responsible for cluster bombing civilians, destroying civilian infrastructure, and poisoning even it’s own troops with cancer causing depleted uranium. NATO does not promote security, it promotes insecurity. By binding
itself to NATO, the EU is contributing to insecurity.

Tony Blair has claimed that the Rapid Reaction Force is merely "an extension of NATO" [in box]

All EU arms will have to be compatible with NATO equipment as they will be available for use both by the EU and by NATO. Six years ago, the pentagon admitted that: "[henceforth] all tanks and fighting vehicles will possibly contain Depleted Uranium contamination" (sic) [Development of Depleted Uranium training Support Packages (pg 37), US Army Chemical
School, October 1995)

Options
By voting No to the Treaty of Nice, you can say that you do not support the militarisation of the EU. The Danish government has already made clear, through a Treaty protocol, that it will not participate in the new military arrangements. The Irish government could easily add a similar protocol on our behalf. By standing aside from these dangerous new initiatives, Ireland would be free to maintain its tradition of genuine peacekeeping and support for non-violent conflict resolution. Ireland shouldn't be isolationist - we have played and can continue to play a positive role in international affairs due to our
independent neutral and non-aligned status.

A no vote will ensure a renegotiation of the Treaty, this will allow Ireland to insert the necessary protocols required to safeguard our neutrality and maintain our exemplary
peacekeeping record under the guidance of the UN. [in box]

Demise of the UN
The power of the UN has been undermined through use of the veto by permanent members of the Security Council and loose interpretation of its mandate by powerful countries. Some of these countries now want us to link with their alternative forces because, they say, the UN is powerless!!

Defence Spending
Irish government spending on defence is to increase by £95,498,000 between 2001 and 2002. Do you want to see increasing amounts of Irish taxpayers money diverted to spending on bombs? Wouldn't this money be better spent on housing, health and education?

“Democracy”
By voting NO TO NICE, we can control the way Ireland approaches military matters. Decisions will be made by unelected representatives - European Comission officials will hold the power and Ireland will not be consulted. This will further erode the accountability of Ireland in relation to Security and Legislative affairs. The Nice Treaty will see a re-weighting of
European council votes. Under the new voting system, Germany, France, Italy and the UK each have four times as many votes as Ireland.

REALITY
Do you know what it is like to be hit by a bullet? Can you imagine? In YOUR name people will be killed in warfare in ways more horrific than you can imagine in YOUR name with no further consultation. Now is YOUR chance to say who should or should NOT be murdered in your name.

VOTE NO 2 NICE

by IMCsupporter Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:31

Why the SWP is so desperate to set up united fronts? Maybe it's got to do with the fact that they are so unpopular and discredited.

by grumble grumble - IMC supporter supporter Wed Jul 24, 2002 13:15

grumble whine whine blah blah

by red sp Wed Jul 24, 2002 20:20

I said that is how the media will report it, not how I see it. And that will be the media all over europe not just here. We will be branded racists and we should be prepared to argue against it.

by Moonlight Thu Jul 25, 2002 01:45

Well I think this shows why seperate campaigns are better:

"Demise of the UN" etc...

The whole business about how the U.N. is better than anything other international body is a myth.
"UN mandate" just means the Russian, Chinese, British, French and American agree. Nothing more.

"“Democracy”
By voting NO TO NICE, we can control the way Ireland approaches military matters. etc..."

Well we don't control of the Irish state any more than we do the EU, as far as I'm concerned.

I'd prefer not to build illusions in nation states, the UN and democracy, as far as I'm concerned that's what S.F. and the Greens and PANA will be doing.