"The Nature Of Class In Modern Society"

by Red Tito - CYM Fri Jul 06, 2007 22:21

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Solidarity.

Solidarity

by curious Fri Jul 06, 2007 23:38

We know what Michael O'Riordan's and the CPI's position was ("Crush those diviant workers!! Kill them all!"), but where stand the neophytes of the CYM? Are is the USSR, the Berlin Wall, mass repression of workers, is that all just "history"?

You'd be better off organising a discussion on such issues rather than on the Communist Manifesto which your tradition disgraced.

by Johnny H - CYM - Personal Capacity Sat Jul 07, 2007 00:31

The CYM isn't a political party so we don't have fixed policies that members have to conform to to be in the group. Instead we're a communist youth movement that has many different shades, there are Leninists, those who would just consider themselves Marxists and finally there are a few who are more anarco-communist in their views. Because of this, there's lots of internal discussion on such issues as the soviet union and the topics you mentioned above.

I think all of us in the CYM would give critical support to the positive aspects of the USSR that lead to gains for the working class, things like free healthcare, education and social housing, but at the same time we'd condemn the suppression of the democratic soviets and workers uprisings.

1989 was a long time ago though mate and so we don't spend all our time talking about the soviet union, instead we're out on the streets and in inner city communities, trying to get campaigns going for the benefit of local people and not for any one political party.

For you and some others, the USSR may seem like a good excuse to write off the whole communist movement but to me, the USSR should be viewed as a failed experiment in a very different time and the role of communists these days is not to bicker on about the past but instead to organise, agitate and educate for the future that will hopefully result in a more successful revolution.

Thanks for your questions, John.

by anon Sat Jul 07, 2007 00:46

"The CYM isn't a political party so we don't have fixed policies that members have to conform to to be in the group"

Are you really this naive and ill-informed? The Connolly Youth Movement has always been, and was founded as, nothing more or less than the youth wing of the Communist Party. Once properly 'educated', you will in due course be invited to join the big boys in the 'Party'.

The USSR was a failed 'experiment' in a particular context? Is this what passes for political analysis of totalitarianism these days in the "communist" movement? God save us from people who refuse to recognise the damage to humanity wrecked by the orthodox communist movement!

These are more than mere debating points. Millions died as a result of the Stalinist "experiment".

Stalinism is dead, long live socialism!

by Chris A. Bond - Labour Youth/ ATGWU (pers cap) Mon Jul 09, 2007 00:02

hopefully i`ll see you there, i would advise the people making critical points on this thread to do the honourable thing and voice their views at the meeting if they have time.

by w. - wsm (pers cap) Mon Jul 09, 2007 02:30

For you and some others, the USSR may seem like a good excuse to write off the whole communist movement but to me, the USSR should be viewed as a failed experiment in a very different time and the role of communists these days is not to bicker on about the past but instead to organise, agitate and educate for the future that will hopefully result in a more successful revolution.

While it's admirable that you want to leave the past behind you and get on with the process of building a new proletarian movement, without an understanding of why stalinism and why the USSR failed you are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. The revolution in Hungary 1956 mentioned above is one of the most important events in the timeline of stalinism (i know he was 3 years dead at the time). Workers fighting for more democratic control over production were butchered and your 'parent organisation' the CP supported it. There were numerous other events in Poznan, Prague and East Berlin where the real nature of Russian state-capitalism became quite obvious.

The USSR may have been before your time but it's not brought up as an excuse to 'write off the whole communist movement' it is brought up because your posters carry the hammer and sickle and you are the youth wing of the same party who supported dictatorship and violent suppression of workers, ultimately setting back the communist goal hundreds of years. It is precisely because I am a communist that I dread to see people ignoring the lessons of history.

by Don Mon Jul 09, 2007 15:50

My wee little commie friends will be happy to know I will be granting your pleasure with the honour of presents at this.

I still dont know why people like John, who apparently have strong views on most things, dont get actively involved the Dail elections.

by anti-fg Mon Jul 09, 2007 18:37

Don as you have no understanding of class, in any sense of the word, I would kindly suggest you save us all your greasy 'presence'. I had the misfortune of encountering one of your interventions at the recent anarchist meeting where you wow'ed the crowd with your wikipedia standard explanation of how to run for the dail, without understanding the conversation was framed in the context of questioning the whole point of electoralism. Instead of defending parliament, you explained how to run for it. Dope.

by Don. Mon Jul 09, 2007 20:08

I was listen to people ranting on all night about how crap things are in this state. What I was saying is that, "why dont they get involved?" Even though clearly I wouldnt agree with them on most issues but why not form a party? They can only get things done if they get involved with the Dail. They didnt explain thier system of government so I didnt understand what they on about. They claim to want to make things more democratic, but how? That was the thing they couldnt answer.

by anti-fg Mon Jul 09, 2007 21:05

From what I heard at the meeting people talked about creating a classless society based on workers control of production and their own communities if you dont see what is 'democratic' about that and how it can't be brought about by an elite in the dail then you're just on the wrong page completely.

by Don Mon Jul 09, 2007 21:10

I unstand about workers controling thier own production. Something like that has benn done before in Ireland, but they were eventually privatised.
But running a country isnt just like running a business. They explained thier goals. they just didnt explain how they were going to achieve them. How do they expect to become the government if they dont run for government. I went to thier site, didnt make any sence.

by anti-fg Mon Jul 09, 2007 21:29

http://www.wsm.ie/story/34%22

by Don Mon Jul 09, 2007 21:46

Doesnt explain how laws are chosen.
Doesnt explain how hospitals and schools are run, since thse are non-profit.
"Individual freedom", every political organisation says. Are they infavour of equality too! :-)

You can set up an anarchist work place if you want. If your project looks good, under a FG government you would be given funds for it. FG are pro-entreprenuers.