Choice Ireland calls for no more “X” “C” or “D” Cases

by porco dio Wed May 09, 2007 17:05

Porco Dio present

A benefit for Choice Ireland with

Estel http://www.estelrocks.com
Captain Spaulding http://www.myspace.com/fungusmuffin
Burn It To The Ground http://www.myspace.com/burnittotheground
Beal Bocht http://www.myspace.com/bealbocht

The Lower Deck, Portobello.
Thursday 10 May.
Doors 8pm. Adm €6 before 8.30pm, €7 after.

by Chekov Wed May 09, 2007 17:07

The pro-life movement attempted a major mobilisation outside the four courts today. They wanted the state to prevent a 17 year old girl carrying a foetus which was destined to die immediately after birth, from travelling to England to have an abortion. Approximately 50 pro-lifers, again bolstered with small children and babies, and with a large number of large colour posters, gathered outside the four courts. As soon as the verdict was known, they packed up and disappeared. A pro-choice rally also mobilised to support her right to travel, again consisting of approximately 50 people.

pro-choice demonstration

pro-life demonstration on pavement opposite

Large, colourful pro-life placards

another shot of pro-choice demo

Choice Ireland Spokesperson welcomes verdict but calls for legislation

by C . Wed May 09, 2007 20:26

Psychologists for Choice Welcome decision But Express Concern Over Continuing ordeal of Miss D

Psychologists for Choice wish to express its concern at the handling of this case
both by the HSE and the judicial system, which has effectively tried to force a young
woman to complete a pregnancy that is itself traumatic and potentially dangerous.

The trauma of this pregnancy and its associated risks, especially for such a young
person has been addressed by an approach which far from supporting her in
crisis has compounded the trauma by subjecting this young woman to Psychiatric
assessment and preventing her freedom of movement.

We welcome first reports that Mr Justice Mc Kenchie has made a ruling
enabling Miss D to travel. Miss D now needs and deserves compassion and understanding
provided in a non-judgmental and supportive manner, in other words proper medical
and psychological support.

Unfortunately this support is impossible to provide to any pregnant woman
for as long as there is a failure to legislate for travel, information and
abortion services In specific circumstances as voted for by the people in the last
two referenda.

The leaders of the political parties must now clarify how they intend to legislate
for this matter in the forthcoming general election.

[ends]

by English Husband Thu May 10, 2007 18:01 London SE6

She went overseas to find a job and pursue her career years ago. A lot has changed since then. But one thing hasn't. We were both appalled at what we read in the British press and at what we did not read in the Irish press. Why did that pregnancy have no chance of bringing life into this world? You say and more brave you are for saying it that your state is at fault. But it's your society too. How many people go to church without brains? How many posters were there outside the court with photos of humans without brains? What's wrong with Ireland? You say D is not happy? We read D and her boyfriend have had one of the worst shocks that can happen to any couple. Was RTE afraid of hurting their feelings?
My wife says these gestation defects are called "humpty dumptys". Is that a bad word in Ireland?
D is going overseas, abroad to England. Like so many other women before and so many more in the future. How many humpty dumpties have you sent over here? How many women have been made bear humpty dumpties to full term? Is that health care? Is that christian living? The doctors in Ireland are begging for a change. Some of the bravest young people in Ireland are facing bigots to tell the truth. Tell that truth and shame the devil.

by wow Thu May 10, 2007 18:16

Miss D had been taken to hospital for a prenatal scan following an incident with her mother. The ultrasound image showed that the foetus had no head. It was diagnosed as suffering from anencephaly, a condition which meant it would live at most for three days after birth.

Once she was shown the scan Miss D decided she would seek an abortion. But the HSE wrongfully told her there was a court order preventing her leaving the country. The agency also wrote to Ireland's police urging them to stop her going abroad. A superintendent wrote back saying he had no powers to detain the girl.

missing bit is NO HEAD or if you need dog latin "anencephaly" NO HEAD = NO BRAIN.

by Arise Thu May 10, 2007 23:26

No victory was won in the high court yesterday.
Miss D has lost the child she wanted.
She was tramatised and abused by the state, and now finally after all that
finally gets to exercise her choice.
The atmosphere of the choice acticists was no jubiliant yesterday, as was right.
We were there so show solidarity and thats what we did.

None of the major political parties have said that they would legislate in
accordance wiht the X case. So what does this mean?
It means that our politicans have once again let us down.
Enda has already comes out and said to the Irish catholic newspaoer
that he will not do so. Bertie has failed to do so in the past and is showing no signs of
doing so in the future. So basicallt we do not live in a democracy. We live in a country where the
will of the people is not taken into account. Where we exercise our democratic right every time
the general election comes around.

The right to travel and the right to information is still terriblelly restricted.

So what do we do now? Where do we go as choice activists from here?
This is a question I put out as a discussion of, What Now?

by Fairy Queen Fri May 11, 2007 00:48

"None of the major political parties have said that they would legislate in accordance wiht the X case."
Labour have said they are in favour of legislating..although they didn't when they were in power post x-case and probbaly won't force the issue on FF or FG as part of a programme for government/coalition

by Correction Sun May 13, 2007 10:49

Chekov,

I don't think the label "pro-life" is accurate, or, even honest. I think the label "anti-choice", or "anti-privacy", is more truthful.

by L'lords Sun May 13, 2007 13:30

somebody said
pro life before the child is born but after the child is born its "poor mother" ! Those pro lifers or what ever they callt hemselves seem to be the landlords putting single parents into below standard rented acommodation. Labour & the other right wing parties have agreed the the minimun wage is something like €8 Whats the cost of a house in Dublin? What sould the average wage be then.? Any mathematicians in the labour F/G p/d camp?
the way forwared is Independents or left wing parties .Going round the country smilling at camera 1 2 3 4 5 will tell the real truth on D.Day
The tenants will prevail I think with how they vote.
this is an excellent website too (my comment)

by corkman in paris Sun May 13, 2007 16:37

"Those pro lifers or what ever they callt hemselves seem to be the landlords putting single parents into below standard rented acommodation."

Yes, of course you are right; the pro-life in Ireland and all those who oppose abortion are ALL landlords (and let's be fair, landladies). You have such a strong grasp of demographics. ALL pro-lifers are evil Thatcherites, and ALL of them supported the war in Iraq and ALL of them are closet Nazis (even though Herr Hitler was a fan of abortion and euthanasia). What other incisive social commentary do you have to add to that inspired quote?

by Elisa O'D Tue May 15, 2007 15:53

"My wife says these gestation defects are called "humpty dumptys". Is that a bad word in Ireland?
D is going overseas, abroad to England. Like so many other women before and so many more in the future. How many humpty dumpties have you sent over here? How many women have been made bear humpty dumpties to full term? Is that health care? Is that christian living? The doctors in Ireland are begging for a change. Some of the bravest young people in Ireland are facing bigots to tell the truth. Tell that truth and shame the devil. "

"The doctors in Ireland are begging for a change"

They are?.My sister is a gp,my brother is an SHO in Tallaght and I am soon to be a doctor (in a year and a half to be exact) and I would never ever or would know of any collgues that would cause serious neuronal defects 'humpty dumptys'.
I think bringing in legisaltion for a case like Miss D's is a lot easier said then done. There are hundreds if not thousands of reasons why a chid could die at birth,ancephaly being only one.
Will legisalation in the d case ,as proposed by choice Ireland, include only certain neural anomalies or numerous disablites?Will someone bearing a downsyndrome child for example, who will probably die in his/her thirties, will they be included in the same bracket as ancephaly? Legislating on the specific d,x and c cases is impossible as far as I can see. If legislation was to be brought in on this case regarding allowance for termination in cases of neuronal defects and disabilities I think we would see the same action here by doctors as doctors in France in 2002.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7330/129/a

by Arise Tue May 15, 2007 21:20

'Will legisalation in the d case ,as proposed by choice Ireland, include only certain neural anomalies or numerous disablites?'

Choice Ireland want free, safe legal abortion on Demand for any woman. So your comment is irrevelant. We call for the government to respect the patethic excuse for the democratic system we have and actually legislate in accordance to what the people have called for.

'Will someone bearing a downsyndrome child for example, who will probably die in his/her thirties, will they be included in the same bracket as ancephaly?''

This is also irrelevant, A woman's right to choose is a woman's right to choose. Regardless if a child would have downsyndrome or not.

by Starstruck Wed May 16, 2007 02:01

Took the words right out of my mouth..
Hypothetical whinin gis what the anti-life side is all about.
A woman's body is her own damn business.Period.
Fair play to Choice Ireland for giving the pro-choice movement a bit of a kick up the arse..cudos.

by Elisa O'Donovan Wed May 16, 2007 09:46 limerickaction at gmail dot com

"-immediate legislation for the "X" and "C" cases"

So by immediate legislation on these cases you mean immediatly making abortion legal? I interpreted immediate legislation as legislation perhaps specific to these cases? Perhaps Choice Ireland should remove this from your list of calls on the goverment at the top of the page as 'immediate legislation' is misleading.

Arise,I ask you again please stop telling me to go away.As someone who sits on the fence on the abortion issue and as a future medical health proffesional in this country surely you should be more intrested in disscusing these issues. You wont legalise abortion by insulting borderline pro life people like myself or holding placards of 'roasries of my ovaries' outside the fore courts.Abortion will be legasied when you and choice Ireland can convince Ireland that it is the best thing for the Irish people. You can convince us by intelligent debate but so far you are only isolating non fanatical pro choicers/lifers people like me.
If you wont answer my simple questions from now on with out insulting me then could you please remove the link to my article at the top of the page. I wish not to be associated with a group of people who bully pro life people like myself.

by Ovaries Wed May 16, 2007 10:12

A doctor to qualify in 18 months, I think not.

The first rule of medical professionalism is privacy between the medical doctor and the patient,
a repsonse on medical information alone to the position of a patient , which includes if
necessary the giving of termination advice.

if a dr has not achieved the distance between their emotive life and their need to respond
to a medical situation, then they are no doctor.

add to this the training in pathology and chemicals- body chemistry and
you really need to get mature Ms Elisa D.

if a woman requires a termination professional advice and privacy are the
order of professionalism not silly emotive haggling on a public arena, which
shows a consistent refusal to accept that there are medical and ethical
needs for abortion and termination in this country.

go away and study the silly books that alarm you so much.

by H. Wed May 16, 2007 12:15

"You wont legalise abortion by insulting borderline pro life people like myself or holding placards of 'roasries of my ovaries' outside the fore courts. Abortion will be legasied when you and choice Ireland can convince Ireland that it is the best thing for the Irish people. You can convince us by intelligent debate but so far you are only isolating non fanatical pro choicers/lifers people like me."

Why should I have to convince you about anything? Like I say, keep your rosaries off my ovaries. Why would I have to convince Ireland that a decision about my own body is the best thing for the Irish people? I don't give a crap about the Irish people. It's my body, and my choice. Buzz off.

by Arise Wed May 16, 2007 12:43

'As someone who sits on the fence on the abortion issue '

Another Lie, You have explicity said on many forums that you are completely anti-choice. I'll add it to your manylies and pretend victimisation and whinings over issue like shell to sea and abortion.

Now Go Away Elisa!!!!

by Arise Wed May 16, 2007 12:47

'as a future medical health professional'

Do you want a medal, do you think its more important to 'win you over' then any other person because you might actually eventually get to qualify as a doctor? This is the sort of elitism that defines and gives rise to anti democratic states.

Go Away Elisa.

by Jan - UCDSU Wed May 16, 2007 13:15

Elisa is a troll. She has a history of trolling on UCDSU. Now that is gone, she will troll here, or anywhere else she can. She ran for womens officer in UCD on the basis of being against rogue clinics, now she is pro-life. One minute she is a suffering dyslexic, the next a high flying medic. She is a religous reactionary, compulsive liar (if her online record is anything to go by) and above all else an attention seeker. Most of all, she exists as an activist only online. She irrelevant as she is ignorant and arrogant, and prefers controversy to reasoned debate. The best thing to do with irrelevant people like her is to not waste your time by responding to her. Ignore her.

by Jane - UCDSU Wed May 16, 2007 17:50

Just to quickly clarify that the above post isn't me although it might appear to be. Much as I would have loved to be posting on Indymedia at 13:15pm I was in the RDS waiting for an exam to start.

Just for the record.

by Elisa ODonovan Fri May 18, 2007 13:24

As I said before Can Choice Ireland please remove the link to my experience on the wrc at the top pf the page.I wish to have no connection with this quite evidently horrible ,victimizing group. I just asked a simple question,does immediate legislation mean immediate legislation specific to the d case,I didnt ask for an attack on my character.

P.s Being dyslexic does not not make you stupid. You can be a high flying medic (which I am not I have struggled with my course) and dyslexic at the same time.Many people like Albert Einstein,Picasso and Churchill also suffered from Dyslexia.

by Dorothy Gale Fri May 18, 2007 13:32

Only a couple of weeks ago you wanted to work with Choice Ireland (we have the emails). Now you detest us. You change your mind very quickly.

No one said you were stupid due to being Dyslexic, its just that you appear to be a Walter Mitty character. No one can believe anything you write or say.

by Elisa O'D Fri May 18, 2007 13:32

'She ran for womens officer in UCD on the basis of being against rogue clinics, now she is pro-life'

People knew I was pro life when I was running.I never hid that.I never hid that fact either when I tried to organize the protest in Limerick against the WRC which Choice Ireland did not want. I have received support from many other pro life people on rogue crisis pregnancy agency's such as the wrc.
As I have said numerous times you can be pro life and be non fanatical. I believe that women should be told all their options when attending a crisis pregnancy agency.I believe they should be given comfort in a difficult situation. I believe that the wrc does not give comfort and they tell lies to dissuade people from having a termination. I don't believe in scaring people and telling lies to ensure that women do not terminate a pregnancy.

by Eileen K Fri May 18, 2007 14:56

Yes you did Elisa. You hid the fact that you were pro life in the UCD election. Your manifesto only included info on your work on rogue clinics, nothing else whatsoever. You also lied in the manifesto about celebrity and corporate contacts, and took a hypocritical stance on many other issues. Anyway, you lost, and you don't really matter. Just putting all this out so indymedia readers also get the point that you are a bit of a political joke and they don't take you too seriously either.

by Fr Nick Sat May 19, 2007 12:33

Don't mouth off about things you don't understand "Live and let live". Elisa O'D has a track record of telling particularly shameless lies and her posts on this thread are yet another example of her dishonesty. She is a cheerleader for police violence against protesters (declaring that the Shell 2 Sea protesters deserved to get batoned by the Gardai) and for extreme, violent anti-abortion activists (praising Youth Defence's leader on this very website). She is just trying yet again to cause trouble for people doing useful work with more lies and slander, washed down with a laughable "butter wouldn't melt in my mouth" self righteous tirade.

Nobody with their head screwed on would want to work with her in any campaign, she is only interested in causing trouble and sabotaging the work of others. Choice Ireland were quite right to tell her where to get off. Nobody on earth is obliged to work with disruptive bullies. The only bullying going on here is Elisa's, the pro-choice activists posting are merely pointing out her lies and inconsistencies. A bit like the climate change deniers this - when people point out the gaping holes in their arguments, they start shrieking about "fascism" and "censorship". Nobody has any right to go unchallenged when they tell lies repeatedly.

by Elisa O'Donovan Thu May 24, 2007 17:35

I dont want to drag out this issue but If people hiding behing pseudoname are going to continue making up completle lies about then I must retaliate. Some people here obviously want to stir up shit using such names as jan(Jane I know Its not you,I respect your intelligence enough to know you would write your own name :) )I have no time to respond to these people who are obviously have a vehment dislike towards me personally and therefore have to hide behind a pseudoname to register their petty grievances.
.
Lie 1
"You hid the fact that you were pro life in the UCD election"
Well as you can see from my link at the top of this page I said just underneath where I gave my testament that I was pro life.
Here are my exact words:'I fundamentaly agree that abortion is wrong' My testament was written a good three weeks before nominations were out for these elections!As I said I have been completly and utterly honest in the womens officers elections about my stance on abortion. Only one person asked me my stance and I told them I was pro life and that was that. You have no proof whatsoever to say I hid that I was pro life when I categorically stated three weeks before the election on the union website that I was against abortion. So stop saying I lied when I there is proof there in balck and wite that I said I was pro life well before the election started.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:wRq7vmIN4mAJ:www.uc...fox-a

Lie 2
Your manifesto only included info on your work on rogue clinics, nothing else whatsoever

And you must have missed the huge parts of my manifesto and lecture addressing on mental health (the bulk of my manifesto and campaign),positive bodyimage,security and inspirational women speakers....the list continues.....
As I have pointed out now dozens of time. Me and many pro lifers believe that women in a crisis pregnacy situation deserve a compassionate caring envionment in which women are told all their options and not told lies to dissuade them from having an abortion.This is not a pro choice/pro life matter it is a humanitarian and legal matter one in which wrc are breaking the law. A law that many pro lifers agree on, to ensure that women are given truthful and considerate advice on all their options at a distressing time.

Lie2
She is a cheerleader for police violence against protesters (declaring that the Shell 2 Sea protesters deserved to get batoned by the Gardai)

I would never ever promote violence. I asked on indymedia and ucd members of shell to sea numerous times where the people of Rossport satisfied with these violent protests and did they want to coninue the protests the way they were going? Nobody from UCD gave me a straight answer except for insinuating that I was somehow pro-brutality and anti shell to sea,which I am not. So In the end I went to a UCD shell to sea meeting where Alan Morkan told me that the people of rossport were undivided with many wanting to end these type of protests. After that I helped out the UCD group by putting up posters for a Rossport solidarity march in my faculty and around UCD. How this shows I am a cheerleader for police brutality is just ridiculous.It is just completly making things up. It feels like you are just pigenholing all pro life poeple into this crazy,extreme,violent group which many of us are not. You only have to look at Miss D who herself holds the same views on abortion that I do to see we are not all crazy,violent nuts.

Lie 3
You also lied in the manifesto about celebrity and corporate contacts

As I have said numerous times before I had and still do have backing from Dove To run a positive body camapign in UCD. Im sure this is something you will see in UCD next year as Im sure Aishling would be intrested in running it too.
I was events organiser of world aid soc in 2003 and manged to get Denis Halliday to UCD at a time when the Iraq issue was extremely topical. I am well used to getting guest speakers from my experience with world aid soc. Emma Bunton is a personal friend and so the two 'celebrity contacts' I mentioned in my manifesto were ready and willing to come to UCD.

Lie 4
she is only interested in causing trouble and sabotaging the work of others

I dont see how trying to promote the dangers of places like the WRC outside Dublin is sabotaging others work. Through Choice Ireland I heared that this crisis pregancy agency was operating and so decided to investigate myself. I thought they only had a branch in Dorset Street and so was shocked to see a vibrant community of them in munster. I highlighted this to many UCD students as well as Ul,LIT,Mary I,the IFPA in Limerick city , there is an upcoming article in the Limerick leader about it and I have spoken at a Limerick gp's meeting about this.
How is making people aware of this sabatoging the work of others?Surely Choice Ireland want this issue highlighted? Please show me where I have caused trouble for Choice Ireland?Or sabatoged their work?
I wanted to hold a protest in Limerick to get the camapign going outside Dublin and build up a bit of momentum for it outside of Dublin as the WRC is not just confined to Dorset street. I was willing to work with Choice Ireland as I said here when I first mentioned holding a Limerick protest at the and also when I emailed them. I then got a reply 6 weeks after contacting them about starting a protest in Limerick where choice Ireland said they do not want pro life people involved with them. Which is fair enough as they are a pro-choice organistaion fundementally but I do think two heads are better then one and we would have made more progress with the wrc working together then apart.

'Nobody has any right to go unchallenged when they tell lies repeatedly.'
Well lots hope you practise what you preach from now on. Stop blackening my name and spreading these completly unfounded lies about me. It really reflects badly on choice Ireland

by Fr Nick Thu May 24, 2007 17:59

I won't bothering dealing with your latest pack of lies, everyone who is familiar with your record knows what the truth is and nobody else cares. You are a malicious saboteur who takes pleasure in attacking people who do useful constructive work, you are a cheerleader for police violence (sorry Elisa, the evidence is there in black and white, just because you pretend you didn't say that peaceful protesters in Rossport deserved to get batoned, doesn't mean the rest of us will allow you to send it down the memory hole), you are shamelessly dishonest and must expect to be challenged every time you try to sabotage the work of others. It would be a total disaster for Choice Ireland if they let somebody like you anywhere near you, thank god for them they gave you the cold shoulder you deserve.

BTW it's not possible for me to damage your reputation, all the damage is already done by your own hand. If you don't want it to be damaged, maybe stay away from the Internet for a while. I see that you're frustrated now the UCD site isn't available anymore and want an outlet for your egotistical attention seeking, but for your own sake it'd be better if you just bowed out quietly - you're only embarassing yourself. If you don't want the facts about your record to be repeated ad nauseum, stop your malicious, disruptive trolling on this site.