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Are the Irish SWP on the verge of a split?

category national | miscellaneous | news report author Friday March 08, 2002 12:57author by Anon Report this post to the editors

A statement by a SWP faction

Are the SWP on the verge of a split? This document was written by a senior member of the SWP in Ireland, will this faction be booted out at the upcoming conference? What will happen to the SWP if they are? Who is in this faction?

The International Socialist Tendency
1. As we arose out of the Socialist Workers Party and the International Socialist Tendency, the tradition represented by the SWP/IST is our political starting point. Whatever its many faults, the SWP/IST has historically performed a valuable role in keeping alive the classical Marxist tradition and the concept of socialism from below.

2. As Marxists we are internationalists. We believe international co-ordination is indispensable for a revolutionary political current. However, the form of that co-ordination can be a help or a hindrance. The toy Cominternism of many orthodox Trotskyist currents, most notably the Healy group, led to delusions of grandeur and in some cases outright megalomania.

3. In the IS tradition we have rightly refused to proclaim ourselves an “international leadership”. Rather we have traditionally sought to build a cadre around a set of political principles. With proper modesty the IST has always referred to itself as a “loose grouping” of organisations united by its shared politics.

4. However, the very formlessness of a tendency which has no organisational existence can lead to a democratic deficit. As by far the largest organisation in the Tendency the British SWP has naturally taken a leading role. Furthermore, in the absence of an international leadership body the SWP Central Committee has become the de facto international leadership. This places a clear onus on the SWP CC to behave with restraint, to respect the smaller groupings and not to act like a bull in a china shop.

5. For much of the history of the IST the SWP CC has indeed behaved with healthy restraint, offering advice and not orders. However, in the 1990s a pronounced shift took place. The SWP CC, represented in the main by Comrades Cliff and Callinicos, took an increasingly commandist approach to the Tendency. The reasons for this lie in the failed catastrophist perspectives of the SWP and need not be discussed here. Practically, this has led to serious splits in one country after another and to a ridiculous situation where numerous countries have rival IS groups sharing the same basic politics. As Fourth International comrades have wryly observed, it is ironic that the SWP’s “loose current” allows much less national autonomy than the FI’s “world party”.

The SWP-ISO Rift
6. The events of 2001, the split in the Greek SEK and particularly the purge of the ISO-US from the Tendency represent a qualitative escalation of the gradual degeneration of the IST. By virtue of the ISO’s size and historic weight in the IST it could not be carved up quietly: it had to be fought in the open. As a result, SWP members, though they were given a one-sided and distorted picture, were at least aware that a dispute was going on. In previous splits (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, South Africa etc.) the SWP simply did not deign to inform its members. The open war in the IST has also raised many important issues about the way forward for revolutionary socialists.

7. The ISO comrades make a very important distinction between principles and perspectives. One manifestation of the SWP leadership’s confusion of the two is in Scotland. After years of sectarian isolation from the SSA/SSP, refusing to recognise its significance, the CC has abruptly done an about turn and its members have liquidated themselves into the SSP. Likewise European groups are currently throwing themselves into Attac, not on a united front basis of maintaining and arguing their politics but in line with the tailist 90/10 formulation. Meanwhile the SWP CC is wantonly splitting IS groups around the world for refusing to blindly apply a London perspective or for failing one of Comrade Callinicos’ arbitrary tests.

8. Having studied the documents of both the SWP-GB and the ISO-US we conclude that the ISO has a much more realistic perspective than the SWP. Even if it did not, we would still defend it on democratic grounds. As national or even local conditions can and do vary widely, national and local perspectives should be tailored to the tasks on the ground. The idea that differences in perspectives to take into account the differing conditions in Britain and the US cannot be tolerated belongs to Stalin’s Comintern, not the IS tradition. We should also point out that the SWP does not even have a realistic perspective for Britain.

9. On the SWP’s organisational allegations against the ISO, we claim no detailed knowledge of the ISO’s affairs. However, we are disinclined to take on trust any claims made by the SWP CC. Furthermore, even if the allegations were 100% true, they would still not justify the mass expulsion of the ISO from the Tendency. Even if they did, the record of the SWP leadership over the last ten years or so surely means that the SWP-GB should be the first party expelled from the Tendency for organisational breaches.

The Way Forward
10. We do not propose to write off the whole history of the IS tradition simply because of the degeneration of the IST. Recent developments in the Tendency are contrary to the whole ethos of International Socialism. We reject the revisionist political and organisational concepts of the SWP CC. By the same token, we do not propose to set up a citadel of Orthodox Cliffism. One of the best elements of the IS tradition is its scepticism of all orthodoxies, and we are acutely aware of Cliff’s tragedy in becoming his own epigone. We seek to preserve the best elements of the IS tradition and adapt them creatively to new circumstances.

11. The position of IS dissidents towards the official Tendency is likewise contradictory, and depends heavily on the balance of forces in each country. We feel it would be ridiculous for the ISO-US to “relate” to the tiny cult which is now the official IS group in the States. At the opposite extreme is Britain, where a large SWP faces no formal oppositional IS grouping. In most countries the dissident IS forces are numerically weak and may be politically confused. Those groups or indeed individuals in various countries who seek to regenerate the IS tradition must find their own line of march.

12. It follows that we do not favour the proclamation of a counter-tendency. We seek the reunification of the IST on a democratic and collaborative basis. It may be that under the present leadership in London this proves impossible. However, we believe that this is the best strategic orientation. In the meantime, we favour informal collaboration between those IS forces who find themselves outside the official Tendency. If formal links develop from that collaboration, they should develop slowly, organically and on a basis of equality between the organisations involved.

Our demands are:

End the SWP’s arbitrary dictatorship in the IS Tendency!

Reunite IS forces worldwide!

International Socialists (Ireland)

17th December, 2001.

Related Link: http://www.angelfire.com/journal/iso/irishstatement.htm
author by Curious - Dublinpublication date Fri Mar 08, 2002 13:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Does anyone know who wrote this? Is it true?

author by News Consumerpublication date Fri Mar 08, 2002 14:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz

author by flypanampublication date Fri Mar 08, 2002 14:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

this hardlt relates to the Swp in ireland as in the number of references to Britain. For anon, we are not going to split. Why would we? For we have just defeated the right wing. Everything is open to the left now (inc anarchists and others) This is just poor/very sloppy muckracking. Don't believe everything you here even on indy media.

Related Link: http://www.swp.ie
author by publopublication date Fri Mar 08, 2002 16:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Whats an SWP?

author by publopublication date Fri Mar 08, 2002 16:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Whats an SWP?

author by SWP memberpublication date Fri Mar 08, 2002 17:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

SWP - Socialist Workers Party. Unfortunately, there is some truth in this as there had been an disagreement over the expulsion of the ISO in the States from our tendency, a quite natural thing to happen in any political grouping. From what I know, a few members in Belfast left over this issue and other problems. Thats all I know for the moment. Never like to see this happen, but as the Hungarian Marxist George Lukas said "all political disagreements can only be resolved organisationally" (or something along that line of thought!)...

author by humbugger - ........publication date Fri Mar 08, 2002 22:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

author by Brian Cahill - Socialist Partypublication date Sat Mar 09, 2002 16:33author email nigel_irritable at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors


I'm sorry to disappoint whoever was shit-stirring about the Irish SWP splitting, but that document is actually from the IS Ireland website. IS Ireland is a small group of ex-SWP people in Belfast who were expelled or walked out over the last few years. They are not current SWP members.

It's interesting in a kind of trainspottery kind of way. Neither the SWP nor its splinter amount to very much in the North, but I suppose that there is some gossip value.

On that note, a bonus prize to anyone who has encountered the Communist Party of Ireland (Marxist-Leninist) in the last five years.

By the way, whoever was quoting Lucacs on the necessity of solving political disputes by organisational means (ie expulsions) should go and have a long lie down somewhere. A healthy political organisation has to allow serious debate, something which isn't possible if you throw out everyone who disagrees with the leadership line.

Related Link: http://www.socialistparty.net
author by goldmanpublication date Sat Mar 09, 2002 21:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Like Tommy Sheridan Brian?

This would be the Irish Socialist Party: Genoa is a distraction, but brussels is really important because we have a group there and our td is going?

You give a link and I notice under campaigns:
"under construction" - Strangely no mention of the "let's defend the car users campaign."

I suppose International Socialist Resistance is Globalise Resistance with a TD?

Oh yeah, the problem with the SWP splitting is it would mean there would be two of them.


author by Brian Cahill - Socialist Partypublication date Sun Mar 10, 2002 16:34author email nigel_irritable at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors


I wouldn't normally bother replying to this kind of rant, but I'm bored as everybody else in my flat is still asleep. Lazy bastards its nearly three.

Anyway, point by point:

> "Genoa is a distraction, but brussels is really
> important because we have a group there and our
> td is going?"

This is just slander. Genoa was very important, Brussels was very important, Porto Alegre was very important and so on. Members of the Socialist Party attended all three. Did we mobilise heavily for all three? No. Should we have? No.

The set piece anti-capitalist demonstrations and meetings are a way of showing the strength of our movement, of bringing people together and of getting our point across. Their success or failure will be determined by how local people and people in neighbouring countries mobilise for them. Not by whether or not an extra busload of people from halfway across Europe gets there.

In each case decisions have to be made about priorities. Was sending more than a few people to Porto Alegre, given the timing of the abortion referendum, the widening of the bin-tax struggle and the sheer expense in getting there, a priority? Absolutely not.

Was sending some people to Genoa important? Yes. Was throwing everything, for months, into mobilising to get an extra busload of Irish people the length of Europe at the height of the Nice Treaty campaign a good idea? No way. In fact it would have been a criminal abdication of responsability.

Prioritising the next big demonstration no matter what is the politics of adventure - something to tell your kids about, not a serious contribution to changing the world.

> You give a link and I notice under campaigns:
> "under construction" - Strangely no mention of > the "let's defend the car users campaign."

You mustn't have looked very hard, when you were digging for dirt. MIJAG, a campaign to defend young people from the profiteering of big Insurance corporations, is mentioned a number of times on our new website.

> I suppose International Socialist Resistance is > Globalise Resistance with a TD?

No. International Socialist Resistance is very different from Globalise Resistance in both aim and nature, despite the similarity in name.

GR claims to be a coordinating body for anti-capitalists of all stripes. ISR is a specifically socialist organisation, trying to bring the ideas of socialism into the anti-capitalist movement.

GR is organised on a national basis, with what little international coordination there is being provided by the local variants of the SWP. ISR is an international body, organising in Nigeria, Brazil, Ireland, Germany, Belgium and so on.

ISR is also intended to be an independent organisation, democratic, open, run by its membership and clearly separate from the parties which set it up. I'll leave you to work out any possible contrasts with GR.

> Oh yeah, the problem with the SWP splitting is > it would mean there would be two of them.

It is possible that a splinter from the SWP would be an improvement on the original. There's no reason why an organisation with similar political views and a student bias has to be entirely recruitment focused and organisationally sectarian. I'm certainly willing to give the IS Ireland people a chance before writing them off as a mini-SWP.


Related Link: http://www.socialistparty.net
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