March 2007 issue of The Socialist (#24) now online

by RP Tue Mar 20, 2007 20:23

ASSEMBLY ELECTIONS:"The two Socialist Party candidates – firefighters’ leader, Jim Barbour in South Belfast and Tommy Black in East Belfast, both increased their vote. Jim Barbour got 248 votes while Tommy Black got 225."

Whatever way you look at it, that is a woeful result. Your newspaper talks about the election as though it was a success, and then blames the electorate for being too sectarian to appreciate you.

Less than 500 votes! Appalling. You'd have been better staying out of it.

Will your version of Pravda acknowledge that you have no support though? No. Prefer top live in the clouds...

by McCann's not the man Tue Mar 27, 2007 16:34

When it comes to the politics of the North the SWP and the SP live in a fantasy land - though on opposite sides. They can't engage with the politics so they just dismiss it. It is all sectarian they say, and leave it at that. When they were 'Militant' many years ago they wanted a socialist federation of the 'British Isles' (maybe they still do) - even though Ireland is not a British isle.

Like the SWP, the SP fall into a British paradigm in attempting to escape from an Irish one.

See commentary on SWP publication:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/81610

Asserting that the electorate are too sectarian to listen to them is a pale echo of the British establishment view of northern politics - paddies too thick to accept civilized (socialist) ideas.

by McCann's not the man Tue Mar 27, 2007 18:45

The following has got to be the most pathetic newspaper article ever to appear in the left wing press - though I am willing to stand corrected on this point.

According to 'The Socialist' the increased (!) vote of 248 and 225 was as small as it was because, "With only a month to go until water charges come in, party members had to continue to put most of their energies into preparing for mass non-payment". What are they going to do with all that pent up energy now that the charges have been withdrawn (even if temporarily)?

It is certainly some achievement, to increase a vote to 225. What was it before, 224? At least the SWP chap in West Belfast got over 700 votes - "widely regarded" as better than the SP effort.

[See: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/81610#comment187586]

A separate article on the overall election results dismisses the derisory dissident republican vote - whose worst effort was twice the vote achieved by the SP stalwarts. "Sinn Fein, as it turned out, was able quite easily to see off the challenge from dissident republicans" - and what about the "challenge" from the Socialist Party? Was it also seen off?

However, this cloud has a silver lining,

"There was a warm response from shoppers and local people for Tommy and especial anger on the water charges issue. This type of support may only have shown up in second and third preference votes when it came to polling day – or not at all as many people in areas like this don’t bother to put themselves on the electoral register or, if they are on, don’t bother to vote."

In other words, after parachuting into an area the SP discovered that the populace was so demoralised, so lacking in any fighting spirit, that they were not even registered to vote or do not vote. The SP supporters detected "especial anger on the water charges issue". Despite this righteous working class "anger", it was "a low key campaign". How unfortunate.

So much anger, so few votes.

How did the SP cause such a "low key campaign" - or can the SP abstract itself from the election campaign it fought? Did they spread despondency in this reputed sea of "anger". Or is this entire account a tissue of make believe?

However, on the bright side, this campaign was a solid foundation to build the Socialist Party among working class communities in South and East Belfast and also a solid foundation to help build mass non-payment of water charges whenever they are implemented.

Yeah, right.

If anyone doubts this analysis, here is the article in full:

Vote goes up for Socialist Party candidates

The two Socialist Party candidates – firefighters’ leader, Jim Barbour in South Belfast and Tommy Black in East Belfast, both increased their vote. Jim Barbour got 248 votes while Tommy Black got 225. The increase in the vote came despite the quite low key campaign – by comparison with previous elections – that the party fought.

With only a month to go until water charges come in, party members had to continue to put most of their energies into preparing for mass non-payment and, along with others, continuing to build the We Won’t Pay Campaign.

Nevertheless some canvassing was done and street stalls were organised in working class areas across both constituencies.

One of the most successful stalls was for Tommy Black in the lower Newtownards Road/Dee Street area of East Belfast. This is an impoverished area that is simply neglected by the establishment politicians.

There was a warm response from shoppers and local people for Tommy and especial anger on the water charges issue. This type of support may only have shown up in second and third preference votes when it came to polling day – or not at all as many people in areas like this don’t bother to put themselves on the electoral register or, if they are on, don’t bother to vote.

All in all this campaign was a solid foundation to build the Socialist Party among working class communities in South and East Belfast and also a solid foundation to help build mass non-payment of water charges whenever they are implemented.

Perhaps, only perhaps, some SP and SWP members will re-think the path to socialism.

by Harry Tue Mar 27, 2007 21:00

The SWP stood in predominantly nationalist constituencies, Derry and West Belfast, where there is a high level of politicisation and, as is the norm within nationalist political ideology, there is openness toward radical political ideas. The SP stood in predominantly loyalist constituencies, South and East Belfast, where unionist pro-British ideology tends toward reactionary politics.

SWP and SP ideologues today will consider this observation 'sectarian'.

McCann's vote is based on his record in the early 1970s as a fighter for civil rights and against discrimination directed at the nationalist population. He also stood on platforms with Sinn Fein when it was subject to vicious repression in the 1970s. Joe Cahill remarked at one public meeting that he may not have agreed with all that McCann stood for, but he recognised that McCann stood up for democratic rights - when the liberals and social democrats (including the Militant Tendency) scurried for cover underneath a barrage of reactionary propaganda.

Today, neither the SP or the SWP have any conception whatever of the radical nature of the national question, between Irish democracy and British imperialism. That is why they are floundering in the North and blathering on about sectarianism without understanding its nature. To accuse nationalists of sectarianism is equivalent to accusing black people of racism.

by sper Wed Mar 28, 2007 00:06

I won't waste my time tearing your sectarian diatribe apart, I just want to comment on one thing you said.

"In other words, after parachuting into an area the SP discovered that the populace was so demoralised, so lacking in any fighting spirit, that they were not even registered to vote or do not vote. The SP supporters detected "especial anger on the water charges issue". Despite this righteous working class "anger", it was "a low key campaign". How unfortunate."

You accuse the Socialist Party of parachuting into the area. The Socialist Party has been doing political work in East and South Belfast for over 30 years, Tommy Black has lived in East Belfast since the 1960s. We did not parachute into the area. The Socialist Party stood in the election to raise a socialist banner. We have stood candidates in East Belfast from the early 1980s.
We knew from the outset that our vote would be small but that was not why we stood. The most important work we have been doing in the last period is the anti-water charges campaign. The election campaign gave us an opportunity to raise this issue with working class people in East and South Belfast - and we received a very good response. 90,000 of our manifestos were distributed between both constituencies, that was more important to us that how many votes we were going to receive. The water charges was one of the key issues of the election. But it was not a factor in how people voted, unfortunately without a major working class party providing a credible alternative sectarianism dominated how people voted. It did not take a genius to predict that the majority of people who would vote in the Assembly election would do so on a sectarian basis.
The water charges have been postponed for one year not abolished. The Socialist Party will continue to build the We Won't Pay Campaign as we have been doing now for the last 3 to 4 years to ensure that they are abolished.
I will leave you to get back to your hurling on the ditch!

by Harry Wed Mar 28, 2007 09:27

"The Socialist Party has been doing political work in East and South Belfast for over 30 years."

Then why have you not engaged in the basic task of registering those you say are potential supporters to vote? Your vote was not just low then, it was pathetic in the circumstances. What is your estimate of why SWP candidates in West Belfast (a first timer) and in Derry got significantly higher, but also small, votes. The candidate in Derry also had 30 years of political work under his belt and had 2,000 votes to show for it (a drop in support on last time).

Is there a difference in approaches to radical ideas in nationalist and unionist working class areas in your opinion? It is possible that you will not consider this question because you think it is sectarian. If so, that is because you do not know what sectarianism is.

Continue hurling away in obscurity - or maybe you would not wish to mention that game in the constituencies you operate in. You might think it 'sectarian'.

by sper Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:52

Your point about getting people to register to vote is lost on me. No were in the article you mention does it say that the SP had voters in the constituencies that were not registered. It said that in East Belfast there are many working class people who are not registered to vote. This is a reflection of growing alienation with the major political parties and the political process.
The SWP did not stand in the Assembly elections. I don't think they have ever stood in an election in the North. In West Belfast a People Before Profit candidate got 774 votes. He did not stand as a socialist, and it is stretching things to say that his programme was even left. His campaign was a radical version of what the greens stand for. A substantial number of the votes he got would have gone to a Green Party candidate if they had stood in that constituency.
The vote for the SEA in Derry is a reflection of McCann’s standing over 30 years of his work but also because he is a left republican and for many years was a cheerleader for the Provos and Sinn Fein. The SWP thought that McCann would win a seat. His vote went down in part because it went to other republicans.
Your attempt to say that Catholics are more likely to vote left than Protestants is sectarian but it is also wrong. You should back up your claim with historical evidence. None exists. The majority of the 100,000 votes that the old Labour Party received would have been in Protestant areas. There is no credible argument or evidence to back up a claim that Catholics are more likely to vote left than Protestants. Working class people irrespective of which side of the sectarian divide they come from have and will vote left if a major left/socialist political party existed.

by Harry Wed Mar 28, 2007 17:32

“Your point about getting people to register to vote is lost on me.”

Why am I not surprised? The SP article clearly attempts to explain the low vote attained by the SP in the context of non-registration, amongst other things - see it above. Why did you not do a registration drive among potential supporters? If working class people are not even registered to vote they are too politically demoralised to do anything very much. If you were there for the past 30 years, what were you doing?

You explain the relatively larger vote of the PWP and SEA candidates by saying it was larger than yours because it was not a socialist vote. Therefore, the more socialist you are the less votes you will get. You must be pretty depressed. I have a suggestion, read some James Connolly. Absorb that and you will soon cheer up.

The old Labour Party collapsed on the national question. By the way, that was well over 40 years ago. It is the first question for socialists in the North to address. Failure to do so leads to obscurity. Well done, you have arrived.

McCann was never “a cheerleader for the Provos and Sinn Fein”. He appeared on platforms in defence of democratic rights. It is not something you understand, it is all sectarianism to you, so I won’t belabour the point.

The problem with both the SP and the SWP is that they think that campaigning against water charges (nothing wrong with that per se) will bring them closer to socialism than calling for a United Ireland. Because both parties are essentially ‘workerist’ (the SP more so than the SWP) they think that bread and butter agitation will advance political consciousness significantly. It won’t, and your history during the last 30 years in the North is proof of that. Instead you hand all the initiative on the big political and economic questions to the bourgeoisie. Nothing to do with us you say. That’s all sectarian. Good luck with it, you will certainly need it.

by Mark P - Socialist Party (personal capacity) Wed Mar 28, 2007 17:49

And those socialist or far left organisations which emphasise the "radical nature of the national question", or whatever code our anonymous critic prefers for left nationalism, have made vastly more of an impact have they? There's been no shortage of such groups, you know. And without exception their political record has been much worse than that of the Socialist Party and they are currently organisationally weaker than the Socialist Party.

Nobody pretends that the North is an easy place to be a socialist. It is not. It will be a long, hard struggle to develop any kind of real independent working class politics there, given the depth of sectarian polarisation. But it would be foolish in the extreme to abandon the attempt and to get down to putting a left gloss on communal loathing. Not that there is much point in arguing with the kind of person who thinks that Catholics in the North can't, by definition, be sectarian.

by marxist-wally Wed Mar 28, 2007 18:35

The PBP in west belfast was larger than any of the Green votes in any constituency in Belfast.

West Belfast- Seán Mitchell (People Before Profit Alliance) 774
South Belfast- Brenda Cooke (Green) 737
North Belfast- Stephen Agnew (Green) 653
East Belfast- Peter Emerson (Green) 590

As for the SP standin on a more radical platform. Im sure your election communication took up postions like the war in iraq, migrant rights, a socialist postion on the police, womens rights, enviorment??? I hope it wasnt just a free bus pass for all manifesto. And i certainly hope that you werent making arguments like "the police need to be equipped to deal with anti social behaviour". You see the psni are pretty well equipped as it is. Some say too equipped. Id like to say that it compares to a radical DUP campaign. But i think even they accept that the police need to be less equiped
But as long as you call yourself socialist you will remain pure.

To be honest it really doesnt matter what the vote was, as long as you tried your hardest, thats what my mum always said.
OH NO WAIT!!! I forgot that the SP werent really trying this time round. They Kinda stood but werent puttin any effort in to the election, they werent really bothered you see.
If they had of been trying we would have seen big posters on lamposts, glossy leaflets to every door, articles in their paper, articles in other papers, press releases campaign stalls. Actually come to think of it, they did.
Ah well, hopefully next time the nasty greens dont come along and steal your votes.

by Harry Wed Mar 28, 2007 22:26

"Not that there is much point in arguing with the kind of person who thinks that Catholics in the North can't, by definition, be sectarian."

There's the beauty of the Interment. I never said any such thing - just look up.

Unionism tends to be explicitly anti-Catholic, whereas nationalists have no problem voting for Protestant nationalists, socialists, or republicans.

When Protestants in the North seek out a radical and progressive path it is through nationalism and republicanism, on the way toward socialism. Why, because unionism is part of an imperialist and racist ideology.

You say it is tough.You are making it impossible. You will be bypassed. Maybe you have been already.