Religion and War

by redjade Mon Feb 26, 2007 23:49

In the period 12-15 February, 2007, Near East Consulting (NEC) conducted a phone survey of over 1200 randomly selected Palestinians in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem of which 806 were successfully completed. It is worth noting that the margin of error is +/- 3.4% with a 95% confidence level.

75% of Palestinians do not think that [in principle] Israel has the right to exist, 70% support One State

70% support a peace settlement with Israel, compared to 72% in January 2007 and 77% in December 2006.

51% believe that Hamas should change its position towards the elimination of Israel (a drop of 5% since January 2007, and a 10% drop since December 2006).

63% of Palestinians believe that Hamas should use all its efforts to reach a peace agreement with Israel.

More at
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6589.shtml

by redjade Mon Feb 26, 2007 23:51

American Jews, Blacks, Fiercest Opponents of Iraq War

77% of American Jews oppose the Iraq war, according to a new Gallup poll. Only Black Protestants are more opposed, at 78%.

(Given that the Pope and the bishops oppose the Iraq War, you'd think Catholics would be against it in large numbers, too. But only 28% know what position their religious leaders have taken on it, so the Church has not been good at getting out the word.

[....]

Neoconservative Jews in the US like Richard Perle, Frederick Kagan and Michael Rubin at the American Enterprise Institute who vocally support the Iraq War (and have gotten rich off it) are a minority of a minority, and even are at odds with the Israeli security establishment! Moreover, the American Enterprise Institute, which crafted the Iraq War, gets funding from Exxon Mobil, and last I checked it was run by white Protestants. The vice chair of AEI is Lee Raymond, former CEO of Exxon Mobil and surely Dick Cheney's old golf partner in the Dallas years. That is, the Kagans and the Rubins, who identify with the Revisionist Zionist movement on the Israeli Right, are useful idiots for Big Oil, not movers and shakers in their own right.

more at
http://www.juancole.com/2007/02/american-jews-blacks-fi....html

by redjade Mon Feb 26, 2007 23:58

does 'religion' always equal 'the religious'?
does the religious always equal the religion?

War for god/dess?

or just that a supposed endorsement from the big guy in sky the best motivator for smiting thy enemy, because killing for cheap oil doesn't sound so nice?

BBC: Can religion be blamed for war?
'A "War Audit" commissioned for the BBC programme "What the World Thinks of God" investigates the links between war and religion through the ages. It was carried out by researchers at the Department of Peace Studies at Bradford University.'

More...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3513709.stm

from the .pdf format file:
BBC's ‘Religious War Audit’
from 24 February 2004...

BBC asked us to see how many wars had been caused by religion. After reviewing historical analyses by a diverse array of specialists, we concluded that there have been few genuinely religious wars inthe last 100 years. The Israel/Arab wars from 1948 to now, often painted in the media and other places as wars over religion, or wars arising from religious differences, have in fact been wars of nationalism, liberation of territory or self-defense.

The Islamist fundamentalist terror war being led by Osama bin Laden, also often painted in media commentary as a war about Islamic fundamentalism, is more about political order in the Arab countries, and the presence of US forces in Muslim countries, than it is about religious conversion of foreigners or expansion of territory in the name of God. Nevertheless, as seen by bin Laden, it is a war of religious duty. But the religious duty he identifies flows from his disaffections with the political order and with the fact that a foreign, non-Muslim power has stationed military forces in Saudi Arabia, a situation he sees as contrary to hisreligious traditions, especially when those forces are being used to attack other Muslim countries.

Download The .PDF:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/world/04/war_audi...t.pdf

click to see some of the survey

by agent smith Tue Feb 27, 2007 19:14

But I note the Utah War between the Mormons and Federal Government (1857 to 1858) is not listed.
This is the last time that LDS took up arms to defend polygamy and after a few initial massacres of settlers going west to California and a scorched earth policy the Federal troops occupied Salt Lake City but eventually as everyone knows LDS got the whole state and bigamy was illegalised in 1862.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War

by iosaf Tue Feb 27, 2007 21:56

I'd exclude the 30 year war as well, I know it's like a "historical or historigraphical fact" I'm just awkward. But why did Richelieu throw the French lot in with the protestants? Anyone who has seen a musketeers cartoon or movie knows Richelieu was a cardinal, catholic, ordained psychopath and bloody master of war and espionage. & I don't think the 3 musketeers or those they always seemed to beat so easily spent a lot of time praying.
& were there were too many factors in the background and lead up - I know everyone thinks it was the Medici Queen Catherine's fault that the "bart's massacre of huguenots" in 1582 prepared the 30 year war of 1618. But historians tend to miss the money & sex & power thing going on in the background for good academic reasons : it may not be weighed as sourced evidence. But I reckon the speculators who had found favour in her court had already tried and failed to start a secret colony in the Americas (to cash in on the great discovery) but Florida where they went had no gold to eat. Those who played a part in that weren't really into religion but it was in their financial interest to support the "kathurlick" side for future return to those new lands. That sort of financial "hope" became a real motivator in the long term.

It's also taken for granted that the crusades were "religiously motivated" along with the inquisitions - yet every single one found psychopaths with blessed weapons or instruments of torture - who mostly enjoyed it not for God but the- travel - blood - excitement - and of course the same pretty young types as always but this time they did have venereal disease. It is amazing how "modern" those early Catholics (or christians not to offend anyone) could be.
To tie it all together - the invention of the "yellow star of david" for jews and the "yellow cross" for heretics occured in the 13th century in what is now South Western France.
This was to make the process of extermination more efficient. Yes - the books had been burnt by the Dominicans (O.P.) and lots of people had been killed - "According to the Cistercian writer Caesar of Heisterbach, one of the leaders of the Crusader army, the Papal legate Arnaud-Amaury, was asked by a Crusader how they might distinguish the Cathars, their enemies, from other citizens. He answered: Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" — "Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his." Yet there was still doubt that the few left alive may continue their gnostic heresy. And so "las debanadoras" (an occitan word) The ex-Cathars wer forced to ...carry from now on and forever two yellow crosses on all their clothes except their shirts and one arm shall be two palms long while the other transversal arm shall be a palm and a half long and each shall be three digits wide with one to be worn in front on the chest and the other between the shoulders."..........In addition they were ordered "...not to move about either inside or outside" their houses and were required to "...redo or renew the crosses if they are torn or are destroyed by age." So people could spot them - it was ok to abuse them. if you thought they were being gnostic again you reported them to your parish priest & one strike - lifelong stigmata 2 strikes - burnt at the stake & that would teach you - but they still buried you under a cross (the cathars rejected the cross as a symbol).
The Dominicans (who have taught many an Irish girl through their schools) earned their distinctive hoods (of the inquisitor). But the hatred they left in the region and the debt - meant new recruits to fight the muslims again for Jerusalem (where oddly the farming land wasn't worth catching syphilis)- and then within a while another brief blossoming of inter-religious tolerance and high literacy began within the then catalan aragonese federation who under Pere II (peter2) had attempted to stop the Cathar wars. I've touched before on how wonderful the peace was which followed - I suppose some people kept their mouths shut - hid their books - nodded to the domincans & blessed them - / waited for them to fk off. (c/f the three comments to The Sunday Papers "your choice always was" edition
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/70137#comment114174 )

so there you go be it 800 years ago or today Catholicism means & meant - No love. no peace. No change but a lot of lies and people looking to make a profit. except now they put it on the radio. and don't do the "yellow star" thing anymore & now all of ye and almost everyone think it was Hitler's idea. But everytime the inquisitors or religious war Jihadists come - it only means the next generation will be a little bit more enlightened. = look on the bright side ..... there are always those who will keep the secrets - I don't mean the cheat codes to foreign games like Playstation. I just mean they will remember before the lie.
http://www.languedoc-france.info/1209b_inquisition.htm

here's a link to a site on religious statistics - http://www.religionstatistics.net/

by noahide Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:21

ossification of basic moral codes be it of the 7 noahide commandments,
the 10 commandments, the beatitudes- through over-rationalisation,
institutional interpretation and politcal dogma are killing the spirit of religion-
or mass exoteric moral governance.

over -literal interpretation of the teachings in the sacred books- and their
dissemination at a literal level to peoples debased by rape and abuse of thier
lands in the name of profit is an indulgence which we cannot afford.

The dogmatic control of the major mono-theistic faiths have kept
ignornace and hatred at the core of their teaching.

Fear causes hatred- and yet not one religious leader has removed that fear.
spoken to brothers/sisters in faith.
The churche's are political entities- they have betrayed the teachings of their
prophets and burnt the books- who gets to forgive them for leading
debased peoples astray?

We have to look at the causes of cultural debasement and how
dogmatism has sustained that in many centuries.

is anyone within the faith groups fearless enough to accept the wrongs
made in the name of exoteric teaching and to begin to put it right?

Blessed be the peace-makers- there are few and they keep getting killed.

by John Hanamy - no orgainsation. I belong to myself Wed Feb 28, 2007 14:18 j_hanamy at hotmail dot com

In the graph completed on all the major wars in the last 2000 years and their rating on whether they were truly "Religious" wars or not I would like to make an addition which has a resonance for today.
Two thousand years ago there was a low level war/rebellion/resistance against the Roman occupation of judea and their collaborators/allies The Pharases against them were ranged a loose but fanatical resistance called today Zealots called then The Nazoreans (sound familiar?) Their eventual destruction at Masada effectively ended the Jewish state for almost two milleniae.
I think it was one of the most religiously motivated wars in history and one of it's casualties in what at the time looked like a distracting side show ended up starting a brand new religion of his own and one that went on to motivate yet more wars of religion.
All the best John