New Labour Row In Sligo

by ned the red Thu Feb 22, 2007 20:51

Wee Jimmy attended the Sligo IFA meeting held in the Park Hotel to protest about the increase in water charges which he helped impose ,by useing his casting vote as County Council Chairman talk about entering the lions den .As he addressed the meeting to explain why he stabbed them in the back the Country Yokels were not listening to his oul guff and told him in no uncertain terms where to get off,fair play to them. This idiot has convinced the Muppets in Labour HQ that Sligo is a battleground constituancy with him proppering up the opinion polls with that other blueshirt Imelda henry.So much for Labour picking up seats around the country if their running No Hopers like McGarry.

by m mc loughlin - EX Union member Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:17

About 20 people turn up in the union hall last night for the AGM the smallest number since 1990. Anyone with a ounce of sense was press ganged into filling officers positions. The new chair was push in by the union. The union Sec is director of elections and he was order to fill that job by jack o connor

by x siptu Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:25

The old joke that the the results of next years general election have been stolen is definitly the case with SIPTU in Sligo.The Branch committee is hand picked by McCarrick and Co.and the last thing they want is any REAL debate or discussion.McCarrick is now a union "suit",monday to friday with golf on the weekends.......And they wounder why membership is dropping ????????????

by reply to inform Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:44

It was not a labour AGM, it was a Siptu AGM.

Siptu has been in bed with the RW since the inception of Partnership. Why the surprise?

And what has this got to do with the lead article about an OLD ROW between Scanlon and McGarry?

Are you trying to blame McGarry for Siptu's demise too? Such rubbish.

McGarry is a blueshirt no doubt but making him a scapegoat will solve nothing.

The issues at hand are worrying and crucial, they need solid objective solutions to bring the Unions back in line with Left-wing thinking.
Partnership should be dissolved. All it has done is allowed an umbrella for senior union officials to buy into a coordinated 'collective bargaining' process which is steered and controlled by IBEC. The Unions have been duped and it would seem, a sizeable majority of their membership.

As for Scanlon and McGarry, I think strings are being pulled here. It is an old arguement. They hate each other and that is no secret in Sligo.
I am however, quite surprised that Scanlon is allowing himself to be manipulated like this. He did the principled thing and left Labour knowing he couldn’t stomach the idea of McGarry in the party. It wasn’t a political stunt because he has nothing to gain from it as he is not running as an independent. The same is not true of other opportunists unfortunately.

Labour is finished in Sligo, has been for a long time.
Get McGarry out for sure, but look beyond him as the sole reason for all Labours ills in the region.
Labour in Sligo has had a litany of poor stagnant candidates full stop.

by Dub Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:49

Labour are happy to see this right-winger as a candidate. Labour are not the left-wing party that some are deluded into thinking they are. McGarry is representative of what Labour TDs in a coalition with FG or FF will do. It was Labour who brought in water charges for Dublin residents in 90s. Declan Bree from Sligo voted twice for right-wing Taoisigh. Why didn't these Labour members give out then? Why did they continue to support Labour? It appears to me that this SLigo dispute is a clash between two brunches of careerists that want Government Mercs and Cabinet seats. They are using left-wing objections (which they never voiced before) as a cloak for careerism. If these Labour members are serious they should leave Labour and establish a different party and challange Labour in the elections.

by j kelly sligo Fri Feb 23, 2007 17:40

Dub your comments that there is two careerists here is half right the two mens mc garry and scanlon are poles apart one lives in a corpo house, works for the outdoor staff of sligo corpo and drives a banger the other own a pub, 4 or 5 houses and lives in large detached house You have a guess which one is which

by Dub Fri Feb 23, 2007 19:35

Where was Scanlon when his local Labour TD between 1992-1997 was voting for Reynolds and Bruton as Taoiseach? or when Bree voted for Water Charges for Dublin? Just because you live in a Council house it doesn't make you some kind of working class hero. Sorry to break it to you but many people living in Council housing can be right-wing. you obviously have a very naive view of the world to say that where Scanlon lives is proof of his credentials.

by j kelly Fri Feb 23, 2007 20:35

Dont say none, who would you support if the choice was FF FG SF or labour and dont give us the crap about setting SP or WP it was try before and fail

by ned the red Fri Feb 23, 2007 20:56

Joining the Labour Party and disbanding the Sligo/leitrim Independent Socialists organisation was a mistake.Declan Bree would have been elected anyway in 1992 with or without the Labour banner,remember his time in the Dail was not totally spent as a yes man to the Labour Establishment .He was reprimanded by Dick Spring in his early days as a TD for speaking the truth about the British occupied six counties.As a local Representive on Sligo County Council and Corporation before and since 1992 he has been outstanding ,he has highlighted corruption by Speculators and Developers,spoke up about the preformance of our Health Service,championed the poor and defencless the list is endless.

by Dub Fri Feb 23, 2007 20:58

You don't have to vote for people/parties you don't support. I would abstain if there was no candidate that is a left-activist whose election would mean progress for the workers movement. In Sligo I'd probably abstain and write a slogan on my ballot. I've done this in last local election in my area. Past generations fought for the Vote. They did not fight for the choice between tweedledumb and tweedledee.

by j mc carrick sligo Fri Feb 23, 2007 21:18

Brian Scanlon record as a Clr (99_04) can stand with any left wing person in the country dont paint everyone in sligo with the same brush I was with him last year in Dublin when he was invited to carry mick o Riordan coffin in to glasnevin cemetery.

by Lydia Fri Feb 23, 2007 21:27

Brian's record as a Cllr from 1999 to 2004 was appalling. Thats why he received a pittance fo a vote in the 2004 local elections losing his seat. He got just 192 votes (2.5%) of the vote. That was down from 573 or 8.4% of the vote in 1999.

by reply to inform-Ex Labour Fri Feb 23, 2007 23:57

Your living in cloud cuckoo land. Brees record is one of failure as a TD and opportunism in every attempt since 97 in getting re-elected.

If he was half the champion of the left you have credited him as being he would have sailed home time and time again in every General Election he has contested. The fact is, he failed the people of Sligo which is echoed in Cranmore defecting almost to household to Sinn Fein in every GE since.

The claim that Bree would have gotten elected in 92 as an independant (as questionable and unproveable as it is now) is irrelevant. The fact is he joined Labour, after it had been gentrified in responce to the infamous Stagg episode, and showed his socialist credentials where flexible in the extreme. He blew it and he blew it big time.

As Bree fades, desperation is setting in. There is nothing he can achieve now as he is unelectable as a TD and he knows it. If he feels regret for his sell outs during his time in the Dail he should not expect the electorate to give him a chance to redeem himself. It is far too late for that and his rush back to his socialist origins look jaded and are regarded with scepticism. He is still invovled with Pact politics (FF/Lab pact) and is very much involved with the establishment in Sligo. But most damning of all is he is still a member of the Labour Party and is clinging on for some bizarre reason when a more principled leftist would have walked (consequences be damned) at the first sign of labour betrayal.

The ultimate indicator that the Left is dying in Sligo (a fact Bree did nothing to prevent) is the churlish yappings of some of his dwindling support, and indeed his own self praise. Those who say they have no other choice forget that it is better to abstain to to give blinkered support to a charlatan and somebody who has a track record of selling out. You are becoming as unprincipled and 'flexible' as Bree.

by j mc carrick sligo Sat Feb 24, 2007 08:52

Scanlon,s vote for 2004 is at you say 192. given the personal problems together with the fact that he only canvass 3 days for the whole election 192 first votes was OK A lot of things have change in 3 years and I stand by what I said above. The locals in 2 years will tell a diffence story

by w willis - labour Sun Feb 25, 2007 00:08

Stop pulling yourselfs apart in sligo. Jimmy mc garry will not win a seat and will leave in 6 months. Then all the fighting will be for nothing if you dont like him keep away for a few months but dont lost live long friends over him

by Jim O'Sullivan - Community Alliance-Sligo Sun Feb 25, 2007 09:19

At a time when the country is in the hands of neo-con zealots who are privatising everything to create money making opportunities for their friends, it is profoundly sad to read this ongoing spat that is doing untold damage on the ground in Sligo and the great fear is it may lead to local socialist thinking people deciding not to vote at all in the upcoming geneal election. This would be a disaster for public services. We must work to get elected a government next May that is committed to the provision of services and ensure that there is equal access to the basics such as education, health, housing etc.
Look at what is happening to our Health Service for example. The present Minister has begun the process of dismantling it and readying it to be handed over to privateers. The arrival of Quinn into the private health insurance business indicates that the parasites and sharks smell big profits in the sector. If the present government is returned to power in May, in five years time there will be nothing left of the National Health Service to save. It is vital that socialists of every hue come together and confront the common enemy. The objective must be to ensure that at the very least the PD's and those that think like them, are not be in a position after the next general election from which they could re-enter government. It would be absolutely criminal if that was to occur by default.

by J. Mc Carrick Sligo Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:29

Hello !!!!
Look at the big picture that is going on in Sligo between Bree and the Labour Party. He was publicly against McGarry coming into the party so much so that it was obvious that he felt the treat of loosing his control over the local members or "troops" as he liked to call them.
He handled the whole thing wrong by threatening to leave the party if McGarry came in and even attended the branch meeting when his application was accepted by the west ward branch then he blamed the whole thing on Dublin.
What is happening now with the departure of Scanlon is part of a plan to get the most publicity with the run up to the GE.
The gift that Bree has is that he can control people and appeals to their feelings of being made look foolish. He uses this to persuade them to do thing for him like leave the party at set times previously Mulcahey and McSharry have fallen for this and left for socialist reasons. In reality neither were electable but had big ideas.
Who was the first person to approach McGarry in the first place to join the Labour Party only Mulcahey who made regular visits to his work trying to persuade him to join the Labour party. McSharry left because he didn’t get agreement for Dublin to run for the general election quick enough for his ego. Now they are just where their master Bree wants them, no doubt they will be found on the street of Galway supporting the efforts of Bree’s sister-in- law Catharine Connelly in the run up to the GE and now they will have a few more friends with them in the shape of Scanlon and what ever slaves Bree has lined up in Sligo to lend her support when the time is right. You can not doubt the good brush strokes in this big picture.
Whats that saying revenge is best served cold but then Bree was always cold, but he always knew what side his bread was butter on and he is not going to threaten his own position

by b conlon /sligo - ABMG Sun Feb 25, 2007 20:10

Good try J but lets get back to mc garry he's public record,and how the union can support him

by P.K Lynch - Ex-Siptu Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:19

Theres nothing new about this row. Its the same old shyte being strung along to gather a momentum for Brees fanfare departure from Labour. It is so transparent it is laughable. But not surprising, Bree has always operated in the gutter, jumping on anything that will publically make him look good and manipulating people to do his bidding. Wouldnt surprise me if this Ned the Red was Bree himself, thats how pathetic he is. He even gets people to sign his letters to the local paper FFS.

Problem is, all his cute hoorism works to get the number of seats he needs at parochial level. There are still just enough people who foolishly believe he represents the Left and that theres no alternatives. General elections is a whole other ball game and one where that gobshite found himself completely out of his depth once the people of Sligo fell for his crap in numbers and gave him a chance. He then meandered all over the place in terms of this voting record and made the kind of silly mistakes most credited to those with a wavering moral/political compass and no core principles.
He failed dismally and the people of Sligo never forgave him for it. Theres just something about taking people for suckers that sticks in the mind.

He has only himself to blame. Now he is trying to destroy Labour from the inside because his ego took such a bruising after McGarry got the nod for the GE. He didnt walk when a blueshirt joined the party. That says it all as far as I'm concerned.
Brees no socialist, hes an opportunist and a poor one at that.

by b conlon /sligo Mon Feb 26, 2007 17:18

As I said already lets get back to the person the labour party is running now and how the union can support this man with he's pubic record

by Jim O'Sullivan Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:43

For the record, the following is lifted from the minutes of a Sligo Borugh Council meeting which discussed refuse collection servcies.

Minutes of March Monthly Meeting of Sligo Borough Council held in the Council Chamber, City Hall, Sligo on Monday 7th March 2005 at 8.00 p.m.

"On the proposal of Cllr. McGarry (Labour) seconded by Cllr. McLaughlin (Fine Gael) it was unanimously agreed that Sligo Borough Council would endorse the present system of waste collection in place and in support of Sligo County Council in this regard."

The present system of waste collection referred to that is being endorsed is fully privatised and with no waivers for anyone. The cost per bin lift is €10. Note "unanimously agreed".If there's a socilaist on Sligo Borough Council, s/he must be a Bertie version.

by Former ITGWU Sat Mar 10, 2007 17:24

It has been brought to my attention that Mr J McCarrick has recently entered the debate on the issue of the Blueshirt Jimmy McGarry, entering the Labour Party in Sligo.

While I have not published material on the debate up to now and I am not interested in participating in the ongoing slagging match I do feel as a trade unionist that readers may be interested in hearing about the role of certain SIPTU officials in this ‘war’.

The fact of the mater is that McCarrick and the full time honchos from Labour Head office worked hand in glove to bring Clr McGarry into Labour. This was shortly after the PD’s refused to consider taking McGarry into their party!.

This was also after McGarry did the dirt on Striking SIPTU Council Workers in Sligo.

To quote Harry Keaney, staff reporter with the “Sligo Champion” (Edition of 16th May 2003):
“For the First time in years, preparations for a monthly meeting of Sligo County Council had to be abandoned on Monday after eight councillors required for a quorum failed to turn up in the Council chamber at any one time in the half hour following the 11.a.m. start time for the meeting.

“Despite this, 14 members ‘signed in’ for the meeting. According to Standing Orders, the names of members who turn up for a meeting that was abandoned owing to failure to obtain a quorum are recorded and are deemed to have attended a ‘duly constituted meeting’

“Although about 20 councillors turned up at County Hall, confusion reigned over whether or not to go ahead with the meeting because of a picket outside the Council offices by SIPTU members as part of an ongoing dispute over the filling of two driver positions.

“Joining in the picket were Labour Party members Clr Declan Bree and Clr Brian Scanlon, who were hoping their colleagues on the Council would not pass the picket.

“Outside the Council Chamber, members debated whether or not to go ahead with the meeting. ……….

“Just after 11:30 a.m. with an array of Council officials in attendance, as well as most of the Fine Gael members, Fianna Fail’s Clr. Patsy Barry, Clr Albert Higgins and Senator Eamon Scanlon, and Independent Margaret Gormley, the Chairman Clr. Padraic Branley said: “As we didn’t have a quorum at 11:30, I declare this meeting abandoned. ……..

“Amid all the toing and froing as to whether the meeting should go ahead or not, the 14 councillors who “signed in” were: Cllrs, Mary Barrett, Patsy Barry, Padraic Branley, Joe Cawley, Leo Conlon, Paul Conmy, Michael Fleming, Ita Fox, Margaret Gromley, Albert Higgins, Jimmy McGarry, Tony McLoughlin, Gerry Murray and Senator Eamon Scanlon.

“Under Standing Orders, they were entitled to do so, having turned up for the meeting, even though it was abandoned due to the failure to obtain the necessary quorum inside the chamber.

“A number of councillors did not appear, among them Dail Deputies John Perry and Jimmy Devins. A number of other councillors, among them Clr. Alfie Parke and Roddy McGuinn, were present at County Hall but did not sign in.

“Afterwards, Clr Bree, who with Clr. Scanlon joined the picket, issued a statement saying that it was incredible in this day that Council workers were being forced to take industrial action to ensure the protection of local authority jobs.

“In my years on Sligo County Council there has always been a reasonably good relationship between the unions and the Council, said Cllr Bree, adding that it was clear to him in recent times that treatment of employees representatives had led to growing industrial unrest among the workforce.”
END OF ARTICLE.

It wasn’t too long after that infamous event that the same Clr. Jimmy McGarry who had signed in for the meeting despite the picket, joined the Labour Party, with the help of SIPTU Branch Secretary, John McCarrick and Pat Magnier & John Feely from Labour HQ.

Pat Rabbitte and Jack O’Connor’s hirelings were most anxious to do their masters bidding!

When the issue of McGarry scabbing was raised at a meeting of the Labour Party’s National Executive Committee, Jack O’Connor assured the NEC members that he had had the case fully investigated and there was no truth in the allegation

At the following AGM of the Sligo branch of SIPTU, Bree sought information about the Union investigation into McGarry. The meeting was told that the Union investigation consisted of the Branch Secretary John McCarrick, interviewing just one person - a striker who had been on the picket line. He had also spoken to Clr McGarry. Bree rightly described the investigation as a whitewash.

Not one other individual was interviewed or asked for a statement!!

Clr Bree, a SIPTU member and Labour Party member who was on the picket line was not asked for a statement. Clr Brian Scanlon, a member of the Branch Committee of SIPTU and a Labour Party member who was on the picket line was not asked for a statement. Harry Keaney a journalist with the “Sligo Champion” and a member of the NUJ, who was present in the Council Chamber on the morning in question, and who recorded McGarry being present, was not asked for a statement. Fianna Fail Clr Roddy McGuinn, who had been a long time member of Mandate, and Independent Clr Alfie Park a member of Impact, both of whom refused to pass the picket to sign in, were not asked for statements. Not one of the Council staff present in the Council Chamber, the great majority being members of Impact, was asked for a statement. And not one of the other strikers who had been on the picket line was asked for a statement.

Well done SIPTU on a comprehensive investigation!

Jack O’Connor’s investigation would put Lord Widgery in the halfpenny place!

by Union member Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:03

The continued attacks on Sligo Labour by a disgruntled member uses quotes from the Sligo Champion as support material for claims made. The Champion is well known for it's close association with the establishment, particularlty the "blue shirt" element and the local bishopery, is as anti-worker as the Sindo ever was, can spin with the best and is known locally as the "Sligo Liar" Strange that a socialist would seek support from that quarter. Things are not always as they seem and in any case, let him who has not sinned cast the first stone.

by opened eyes sligo Sun Mar 11, 2007 14:20

How about the minutes of sligo Co Co meeting 14 may 03 easy enough even for union member to look up. It is quit clear mc garry pass a SIPTU picket Now go down to the union and ask why the head of SIPTU in sligo is running a SCAB election campaign and for god sake get he,s posters out of the windows Are YOU a man or a mouse!

by Anti Scab Sun Mar 11, 2007 18:45

‘Union member’ states: “The Champion is well known for it's close association with the establishment, particularly the "blueshirt" element.”

‘Union member’ isn’t very bright - Cllr McGarry was a member of the blueshirts at the time the report was published in the “Champion” !

Does ‘Union member’ support scabbing?

Has ‘Union member’ any comment to make on the so called “SIPTU Investigation” into the matter.

Is ‘Union member” an actual Union official who is attempting to justify Jack O’ Connor Widgery’s “investigation”?

by Union member Mon Mar 12, 2007 09:02

I am bright enough to see that this stalinist attack on Sligo Labour is orchastrated by a disgruntled member who ought to do the honourable thing and leave the party, stop snipeing from behind pseudonyms and set up in honest and open oppostition, if that is his wish.McGarry is no Joe Higgins, but he represents the best chance to get a Labour seat in the area and all those that wish to see the present government out of office should forget their differences and work to get a Labour seat. All this and other threads on similiar lines are doing is sabotaging that effort.

by Anti Scab Mon Mar 12, 2007 18:23

In his last contribution ‘Union member’ ignored the issue of scabbing and the disgraceful behaviour of certain SIPTU officials and complained about the “Sligo Champion” and “it’s close association with the establishment, particularly the blueshirt element”

Now he complains about a stalinist attack on Sligo Labour and says McGarry represents the best chance to get a labour seat and all those that wish to see the present government out of office should forget their differences and support McGarry!!

And who does Rabbitte and labour want as leader of the great new government? – yes, Enda Kenny, a leading member of the establishment and the leader of the blueshirts!!

Union member definitely isn’t very bright, but he does speak the language of Rabbitte and O’Connor. He really does sound like a labour Party official or SIPTU official.

Has ‘Union member’ no comment to make on the so called “SIPTU Investigation”

by Reality Check Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:03

Here we go again, more from Bree and his little band of ‘Troops’. This crusade against McGarry is so transparent it’s laughable. It’s happened on a number of other threads which have been resurrected recently to give the impression there is a sizeable level of unrest amongst Labour in Sligo.
If Bree is so pissed off with the state of affairs and having his immense fragile ego bruised by being overlooked, why doesn’t he leave the party?
Why has that frequently asked question been ignored?
Instead a malicious cowardly campaign is launched from the long grass by Bree and his dwindling band of sock-puppets.
The insults and accusations are actually making Bree look like a spoilt brat with an obsessive compulsion leaning towards stalking.
I would actually imagine McGarry reads all this with a wry smile knowing that Bree is so enraged.

McGarry does not answer to Bree and why the hell should he. Bree has shown himself to be an opportunist in that he attacks labour because of Rabbittes leadership and the electoral pact with FG, yet still remains within the party and would have been more than happy to represent labour had he been nominated.
Bree is never slow to call himself a former TD, but forgets to mention he was in a government with FG and voted for one of the most right-wing Taoisigh the state has ever had. Look at his voting record as a TD. It says all that needs saying about this pseudo-lefty.

Anyway, I would take Brees criticisms much more seriously if he had left Labour and declared as an independent instead of this snake in the grass nonsense.

Of course he won’t. Part of his smears accuses McGarry having no support locally and this translating into a poor showing at the poll. If Bree where to run as an independent and subsequently get fewer votes than McGarry, his bullshit would be exposed, McGarry vindicated and Brees already sinking political career destroyed.

by opened eyes Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:51

reality check no one was taking about bree in the last few comments Can we stick with facts mc garry DID cross a picket line and the head of the union in sligo is he's director of elections Have you any thing to say on that

by Reality Check Mon Mar 12, 2007 20:00

I Didn't say Bree was mentioned I said he was behind the crusade both on this thread and elsewhere. If your eyes where opened far enough, you'ld easily see that, its blatanty obvious as is the reasons for it.

There has been a lot of questions dodged on this thread

by Union member Mon Mar 12, 2007 21:41

Anti-scab is all over the place. Try focus on the simple choice- another 5 years of PD right wing policies or a government that needs Labour support to operate. If anti-scab can live with the idea of another 5 years of the present government then he cares little for the most vulnerable in society. But that is not surprising because it is obvious that what we are dealing with here is a wounded ego.

by j larkin - eire Mon Mar 12, 2007 23:23

Can you tell me the diffence between the PD's and jimmy the rat mc garry. Their public record are one and the same In fact mc garry's record is so bad the PD keep the door shut when he came knocking

by Greg Maher Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:41

The PDs are an ultra right wing political party who are currently in Government with FF and together with the more right wing elements of Fianna Fail have been instrumental in the stewardship of the economy and the implementation of laissez faire neo-liberal economic initiatives and the sell out of state assets to both the detriment of Irish citizens and as precursory moves to privatise all public services.

Jimmy McGarry is an irrelevant councillor who is running for election under the banner of the Labour Party. The Labour Party is in a pre-election pact with FG and together presents an alternative to FF/PD runaway reagonomics.

It is imperative that FF/PD’s are not returned to Government. Attempting to destroy Labour in Sligo and running a smear campaign from behind an array of anonymous pseudonyms clearly shows a personal vendetta from Bree that is actually at odds with what is in the national interest and it should be noted by his few remaining supporters that Bree is more than willing to do this just to placate his ego. He has also attacked Sinn Fein, proof that he has no interest in effecting change unless he is instrumental in that change and he gets the credit.
All those who are serious and credible politicos see straight through this ‘Old Row’ in Sligo.

In this regard McGarrys track record is irrelevant. He is a part of Labour, not the PD’s.
The only party that will go into government with the PD’s are Fianna Fail. Keeping the number of seats Fianna Fail get is therefore a primary goal and all those who are endeavouring to do so should be supported. It is in the interest of the people, democracy and social justice.

by r mac gowan Thu Mar 15, 2007 22:48

What is the differecne between Fine gael and the PDs? What difference will it make to the man in the street whether the blueshirts are in power or the PDs? Cop yourself on Mr Maher

by Greg Maher Fri Mar 16, 2007 02:01

I think you will have to re-direct that question to Mr Bree. The last time the "blueshirts" where in power Bree was happily in coalition with them and was obviously happy to assume there was a difference between the “Blueshirts” and the PD’s.

Are we now to accept that his judgement wasn’t sufficiently flawed in this respect that a repeat performance in terms of blurred political expediency will not be a certainty?

Cop on?

Mr McGowan, that is exactly what he electorate did, which is precisely why Bree will never elected to such a position again.

by r mac gowan Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:21

Bree and co realise that they made the wrong decision when they entered government with the blueshirts and the democratic left. At the last labour Ard fheis he spoke out aganst doing a deal with FG. He recognises there is no difference between themn and the PDs. Can you tell me the difference between the PDs and the blueshirts

by Union Member Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:54

It's amazing that Bree has seen the light regarding entering pacts with the Blueshirts. He is currently in a pact with Fianna Fail on both Sligo Council's and will vote next June for an FFer for mayor. This sell out is in return for FFer's voting for him for Mayor a couple of years ago. Bree hopped into bed with FF for the terrm of the current Council. Perhaps he will tell us the difference between FF and FG and PD's? Incidently, the people who voted for Bree have never seen the detail of the pact he entered into. Publish it here and lets see what was delivered for those that voted for him. All this hypocracy is becoming nauseating

by Greg Maher Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:05

Did Mr Bree realise he made a mistake when Labour went into Government with Fianna Fail too. Really Mr macGowan, how many mistakes can we afford a politician before we can label him incompetent. Or was it naivety or good old fashioned opportunism?

To answer your question. There is F all difference between the PDs and FG and FF and Labour. This is not a policy issue in the main. It is a Democracy issue. The FF/PD government needs to go, least we boost their megalomania by having them in government infinitum, compounding their arrogance, unaccountability and social indifference to levels that are even more unpalatable and could be irreversibly damaging to the less well off.

Political dichotomy demands this government is not returned. Petty local squabbles over the scraps from Rabbittes table solve nothing. If you don’t know that then I'm afraid there is very little to debate with you
In fact I’ve just realised how parochial and insignificant this is in that only a handful of people (and no-one of consequence) will read this thread.

I’m off to do something far more valuable with my time. I suggest you do too Mr MacGowan.

by r mac gowan Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:38

Greg Maher rightly says “There is F all difference between the PDs and FG and FF and Labour.”
He then says “This is not a policy issue in the main. It is a Democracy issue.”

Is Mr Maher joking! What kind of democracy is that? He clearly has no idea or concept of what democracy is supposed to be about. Democracy is about giving people choices.

Could Mr Maher really be Jim McGarry? Jim was a member of Fine Gael. When he left Fine Gael he tried to join the PDs and when he was rejected by the PDs he joined up with Labour. Will his next stop be Fianna Fail?

by Greg Maher Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:57

Is that the best you can do? Counter with paranoia and suspicion. Clear evidence that you cannot address the issues, just distract with conjecture.

Had this a wider and more politically astute audience it would be immediately apparent to them who the charlatan is.

Alas this thread is only of interest to Bree. McGarry isn’t even in the country, I would have thought you knew that. Or where you hoping to have this raised so you can cry ‘junket’? Its amateur night on Indymedia.

Look closer to home my disgruntled friend. Bree has been abroad at the tax-payers expense himself on quite a few occasions.

Now, as I said this is off little interest to anyone. You can continue this debate with yourself if you so wish. I have no doubt it is something you are most accomplished at.

by r mac gowan Fri Mar 16, 2007 14:10

I didnt counter with paranoia and suspicion. I responded in a clear and concise manner to the points you made. Perhaps you might read my contribution again. I did ask the question - could you be Mr McGarry? Is it not a reasonable assumption given what you said about the election not being a policy issue.

I'm not concerned about Cllr McGarrys whereabouts. if he’s out of the country – even if its at the taxpayers expense - its a blessing for all of us.

by Mrs Fri Mar 16, 2007 15:01

Greg, what makes you think that R McGowan is a Mr.? Did you ever think it may be Mrs McGowan? Rhona maybe?

by Greg Maher Fri Mar 16, 2007 17:47

“I didnt counter with paranoia and suspicion. I responded in a clear and concise manner to the points you made.”

You made no points. You made supposition and questioned whether I understood democracy. A juvenile and transparent effort to redirect criticism of Bree toward a larger argument about democracy. School debate tactics at best. But then again I expected no less.

You did offer this “Democracy is about giving people choices” before going further down the road of supposition by bizarrely enquiring if I was Jimmy McGarry. Which of course lends itself to concluding the question was being driven by paranoia and suspicion. You will of course note I have never said I endorsed McGarry, his candidacy, his politics or his principles, unless you are confusing me with some else…again. All I said was that FF/PD government needs to go and that attacking Labour in Sligo was not helping that pursuit. I attacked Bree because he is a fraud and careerist who sold out years ago and I’m sick of him using Indymedia as his own personal platform to blow his own trumpet.

But getting back to that all defining question “Democracy is about giving people choices”.
I had thought we had both agreed that FF/FG/Labour and the PD’s where all the same. This of course begs the question, Where is the choice here?
Or is Mr/Mrs MacGowan advocating blanket support for Sinn Fein?
If that is the case then there is something we can agree on. With Bree out of the way SF could be in with a shout in Sligo.
That is something I can live.

by Anti Scab Fri Mar 16, 2007 18:49

How come ‘Union member’ and ‘Reality Check’ haven’t commented on the posting from ‘Former ITGWU’ regarding the Striking Council workers in Sligo.

Have they nothing to say about the SIPTU Investigation and what was said at the Labour Party National Executive Meeting

Why the deafening silence?

by red alert Fri Mar 16, 2007 19:21

Greg Maher you come across as a pompous arrogant apologist for that excuse of a politican Mc Garry. Its not inconcievable at this point in time that Declan Bree will yet declare his intentions to run in the election and give the people of Sligo/Nt Leitrim a true choice,rather than the Tweedle Dee/Dum variety that you advocate.Declan is a true Socialist and Internationalist who advocates a more egalitarian society,quite the opposite as envisaged by the Kenny/Rabbitte Blueshirt alliance which only promises more of the same neocon economics that suits little conservative capitalists like McGarry.His only role in the election is to garner transfer votes for his Blueshirt buddies in the hope that they will win a second seat,as a reward no doubt his been offered a Senate seat to compensate for the one Harney refused him prior to the last general election when he tried to join the Pee Dees.

by r mac gowan Fri Mar 16, 2007 19:24

On Tuesday morning at 11.41. Greg Maher said:

“It is imperative that FF/PD’s are not returned to Government.”

“The only party that will go into government with the PD’s are Fianna Fail. Keeping the number of seats Fianna Fail get is therefore a primary goal and all those who are endeavouring to do so should be supported.”

"The Labour Party is in a pre-election pact with FG and together presents an alternative to FF/PD runaway reagonomics."

AT 11.05 this morning the same Mr Maher said:

“There is F all difference between the PDs and FG and FF and Labour.”

At 17.47 this evening he is distancing himself further from Labour declaring:

“I have never said I endorsed McGarry, his candidacy, his politics or his principles.”

And he ends up advocating support for Sinn Fein.

I say well done Mr Maher. It may have taken you some time, but at last you recognise that Labour with its present leadership and with candidates of the calibre of Jim McGarry, is not an alternative and has noting to offer to the people of this country.

by Greg Maher Fri Mar 16, 2007 20:46

Now I’m an apologist for McGarry? This was funny but is fast loosing its entertainment value I must say. And as for being arrogant and pompous, I wouldn't even lace Brees shoes in that regard.

Your sycophantic rant as to Brees socialism completely ignores all the criticism laid at Bree with regard to past misdemeanors when he could have affected changed and shown his socialist colours but failed miserably. I honesty think you are so blinkered that you cannot be objective. Thankfully you as a Bree supporter of such myopic reverence are a hack on the fringe minority. There are others who trusted him before, voted for him for Dail Eireann and got burned. Go talk to them if you want a realistic appraisal of this wanton Socialist. What has he achieved? Where is the socialist utopia that such a stalwart of the left could only deliver? Open your eyes man.

As for Mr/Mrs MacGowan, a loose string of quotes and a completely off the wall conclusion to surmise does not make you look like you have a fair grasp of this or any other thread regarding Bree. Are you trying to credit yourself for successfully steering me through debate to the position that FG/Lab has nothing to offer?

Read my posts again. I was commenting on the state of play as it stood and was speaking of Democracy in bigger terms outside the parochialism of gutter politics the likes of Bree engages in. I didn’t distance myself from anyone because I never endorsed anyone bar a concept. It is blatantly clear what is going on here and normally I wouldn’t give such amateur theatrics the time of day, but I have a half hour to kill before I head down to the Long Hall for a pint and a proper debate with challenging minds.

But in any case and to show you how irrelevant this all is I'll let you in on a little secret. You see it doesn’t matter who writes what about whom on this thread. Nobodies reading.

As for Bree running. Don’t make me laugh.

by r mac gowan Fri Mar 16, 2007 22:56

At 11.05 on Friday morning Greg Maher says “I’ve just realised how parochial and insignificant this is in that only a handful of people (and no-one of consequence) will read this thread. I’m off to do something far more valuable with my time. I suggest you do too Mr MacGowan.”

But he didn’t manage to get off. He was still about at 12.57. when he posted again and said “Now, as I said this is of little interest to anyone. You can continue this debate with yourself if you so wish. I have no doubt it is something you are most accomplished at.”

But he couldn’t or wouldn’t let me continue to debate with myself. Five hours later - at 17.47 Greg is still posting and debating with me on the thread.

And believe it or not at 20.46. he is still posting and he says “It is blatantly clear what is going on here and normally I wouldn’t give such amateur theatrics the time of day, but I have a half hour to kill before I head down to the Long Hall for a pint and a proper debate with challenging minds. But in any case and to show you how irrelevant this all is I'll let you in on a little secret. You see it doesn’t matter who writes what about whom on this thread. Nobodies reading.” says Greg

Isn’t he an extraordinary chap? Having read over his contributions it strikes me that he sounds like some type of a trainee shrink. At least he uses all the terminology. Perhaps he picked it up from a book. God help the poor unfortunates with the challenging minds who have to debate with him in the Long Hall tonight.

by P Mc Cabe Sat Mar 17, 2007 09:29

An awful lot of guess work and inquisition here as to who G Maher is and what his profession is and equally concerted transparent efforts to discredit him and dodge all criticism of Bree.
And you laughably call this debate?

Really MacGowan you come across like some one who’d take flight in a gust of wind.

What are your views on Bree? How can you square his record in Dail Eireann with Socialism? Do you really believe he made simple mistakes by compromising his principles? I believe he sold out those principles and cannot be trusted.

He is involved in Pact politics with FF. He voted to retain service charges in Sligo. His opposition to the bin tax has been muted and his activism in general is timid, safe and from afar. He supported the Tax Amnesty for the rich. I cannot over stress the implications of that particular gaff in its betrayal of socialism and the working class. He is not radical and is a safe pair of hands as far as the establishment is concerned. So much so they made him Mayor.

If Bree came clean and admitted he has mellowed and is left leaning but not a radical hard left socialist I’d have far more respect for him in that he would at least be honest. Instead he has become an opportunist, is a shameless self promoter and attacks unreservedly all those who would dare to question him. This has further alienated him in that people on the ground are not stupid and see this renewed lunge to the far left as what it is, an electoral stunt and a direct result of a re-examination of his options post Labour.

I (and many others) cannot accept he is as he describes himself as he has a track record that proves other wise
What have you to say about all this MacGowan? Will your response be a predictable and dishonest Party Political Broadcast full of auto-queued sound bytes and distraction?

I haven’t asked who you are, I don’t care what you do. I want you to try to convince me Bree is not a charlatan and what he claims himself to be.

by Cowardly Tom - Also sacked by ITGWU Sun Mar 18, 2007 18:58

Obviously I agree completely with the assessment that Jack O'Connor's investigation would put Lord Widgery to shame, but what else can you expect from a sycophant - or as James Connolly would've put it - an employers Lick Spittle.

O'Connor's cover up of a Scab and blackleg is perfectly understandable when placed alongside the disgusting and criminal practice of ITGWU of making dockers discharge asbestos.

ALSO his cover-up of the collaboration by his union with the Belfast employers and the sacking of union members by own union makes a mockery of the principles of Jim Larkin and James Connolly.

For a fuller account of Siptu and ITGWU corruption see Indymedia Siptu Atgwu unity.

AND VOMIT.

by P.K Lynch Tue Mar 20, 2007 13:01

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80499&comment_limit=0&c...87172

Cowardly Tom, you have been re-directed here from another thread (See above) by a ‘Seamus RK’ in attempt to steer the train of discussion away from Declan Bree and the questions asked of him in relation to his sell out whilst a TD representing the working class people of Sligo. It is another clumsily engineered example of the need to introduce distance between criticism of Bree and his reluctance or inability to respond to such.

The Widgery Inquiry you where asked to comment on is actually not really relevant to this thread which is about an old ongoing local disagreement between two separate camps of careerists centering on the Labour Parties candidate nomination for the General Election. The Widgery Inquiry was introduced by the Bree camp to discredit McGarry and while it is a shameful act by McGarry does not take away from Brees own sell outs and the questions which where asked of him in this regard going unanswered.

P mc Cabe has made some very valid points above and asked some very valid questions as to the credibility of Declan Bree and his pseudo-socialism.
In light of these questions being continually unanswered it appears that Bree is no position to lecture anyone on principle and conduct (McGarry crossing a picket line), when his own conduct has been found wanting (Bree voting for a Tax Amnesty and selling out the working class). Which of these is the greater injustice?

The truth of course is that Bree an McGarry are as bad as each other.
The only difference is McGarry doesn't pretend to be anything other than the opportunist and careerist he is.

The same cannot be said of Bree.