Cracks deepen in Dublin City Council’s waste management plan.

by D_D Thu Nov 23, 2006 15:27

Passing through Ringsend almost all houses seem to have tagged bags out on bin day. Haven't seen the flats. Any comments?

by Dermot Lacey Thu Nov 23, 2006 16:22

It is very difficult to debate with people who will not deal in the facts but the fact is that Councillors will not be voting one way or the other on Bin Charges. That power is gone. I say this as someone who has supported the charge, has supported the waiver and does want the service retained within the Councils remit.

by Dave Thu Nov 23, 2006 16:27

"All members of the community should be involved with deciding how we deal with our waste."

When left in the hands of the community almost NOBODY recycles. We have proven ourselves unworthy of self-regulation of waste in this country... we take the path of least resistence.

Hypothises:
If everybody got 3 bins, Green, Grey and Brown and was asked to seperate their waste and that all 3 would be collected each week no matter what.

What would happen? 90% of people in Ireland would still lob everything in the grey bin.

No doubt the "we don't have the recycling facilities available to us" argument would be used.

What bull!

I pay 7.50 per grey bin and 0.00 per green bin... so I try and minimise my Grey and fill up the Green. Not a perfect system, a bloody good system.

by Dave Thu Nov 23, 2006 16:40

That the system is made more fair by introducing waivers (which I think should be more widespread). I would have waivers for households with children under 3, households under a certain level of income, and a few more besides (maybe the elderly?). Probably with a tiered pricing structure.

The only way the current Irish generation will recycle (business / private / whatever) will be by paying for their unrecycled waste.

The real battle is to ensure the money earned is ring-fenced, that the companies involved don't make excessive profits (unless they are giving us "excessive" value for money!).

Everybody agrees that the bin collection should be publicly funded (via Tax). Some people think it should be pay-by-use + means, some think it should be funded by the exchecquer.

Its not that big a deal folks! The "social cost" of a (somewhat) regressive tax could be offset by the "social benefit" of more recycling. The tax distribution can be refined over time to make it more progressive (as per my point above)...

There are many many other unjust and punitive aspects of our tax and services system that warrant more attention than this.... cost of household energy is a hugely regressive and non-optional "tax".

But Joe Higgins felt so strongly about the method of allocation of a relatively small part of the tax system. Codswallop! Electioneering of the highest order.

by Terence Thu Nov 23, 2006 17:09

First off, I don't think that it is true that 90% of people would chuck their waste into the grey bin. That figure has been plucked out of the air. Besides the Brown Bin service is a bad idea. People should be given their own compost bins to compost their organic waste in their own gardens with these composters. Therefore I urge people in Ringsend and elsewhere to get their own composting bin and tell the Council to not bother with their Brown Bin.

A significant number of people in Ireland are for recycling and want more of it and more facilties. A central message of the whole environmental side of the debate on waste is to: Reduce, Reuse and Recycle. The fact that the retail sector managed to fight off an excessive packaging levy many years ago means the first R is knocked down. Alongside various calls to get rid of plastic bottles and return to the system of deposits on glass bottles and even alumunium cans, these have gone unheeded and ensure there will be NO reduction in waste but an INCREASE.

The second R, Reuse is discouraged by the built-in failure of many products on sale and again by using one-time one-use containers. In Germany a lot of glass bottles (for beer ), goes back intact, gets cleaned and then re-used. Here there is no such facility or policy.

On the third R, Recycling, there is not a sufficient recycling infrastructure and central to the final destruction of the 3 Rs, is the fact that there are several incincerators at the advanced planning stage in Ireland, not least the one for Ringsend in Dublin which will put an end to recycling as we know it for Dublin. Not only that, numerous reports are now appearing that people are being forced to pay for their recycling by being charged for the green bins especially in those areas with bin tags. So this is where people will simply throw their hands up and say I give up.

You also mention waivers. Well you can forget them because the government has no intention of continuing them or taking up any of your other ideas in that area because they are being phased out and whats more have been deemed to be unfair competition by the Competition Authority. So there is not a hope that such ideas will be entertained.


Lets face it, the meager recycling facilities that we have are been setup to fail and by the introduction of green charges, recycling rates will probably stall. This is all part of the setup to ensure a continuous and steady supply for the incinerators. By disregarding the 3Rs of sustainable waste management the government and the private waste companies will ensure money is to be made in the following areas:

1) Creating the packaging
2) Selling the packaging by including this as a hidden cost in everything we buy.
3) Collecting the waste.
4) Burning the waste by charging for this 'service'
5) Landfilling the ash from the waste.

by Dermot Lacey Thu Nov 23, 2006 17:26

Terence,

You have no evidence for that rehashing of the old and false arguments in so far as Dublin City Council is concerned. There is no threat to the waiver. The figures show that for the vast majority of families two grey bin collections a month is more than enough. There is no proposal to initiate a charge for the Green Bin and there is no proposal to privatise the service. Of course thanks to the Anti Bin Tax Camapign and the anti Local Government FF/PD Coalition all these powers now rest with the Manager.

by Oro Thu Nov 23, 2006 17:49

"The figures show that for the vast majority of families two grey bin collections a month is more than enough."
And what about those that it isn't enough? Are we getting into a bit of Communist China here? Penalising bigger families? BTW what figures?

"Of course thanks to the Anti Bin Tax Camapign and the anti Local Government FF/PD Coalition all these powers now rest with the Manager."
And you have the cheek to say others are involved in the 'rehashing of the old and false arguments'. That argument doesn't wash when it comes to incinerators.

by Terence Thu Nov 23, 2006 19:08

Dermot,

The removal of the waiver in other areas and it will surely follow elsewhere was reported here in Jan 2005 http://www.indymedia.ie/article/68292 -see the first comment by me and references were given

And see here: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=67640 with a link to a report on RTE about removal of the waiver in Limerick.

There was also a story about charging for recycling recently at: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/79415 and I have heard that in some areas where the tagging system is used, that they are now charging for collecting the Green Bin -which to me is charging for recycling.

And more about the waiver from the Dail Select Committee on Environment and Local Govt on Thurs 19th June 2003 ( http://www.irlgov.ie/committees-29/c-environment/200306...1.htm )

Eamon Gilmore said:
Mr. Gilmore: The situation appears to be worse than that, since there is no right at all to a waiver where the service is privatised. The waiver right will only arise where the service is provided by the local authority, and whereas hitherto the members of the local authority adopted the waiver scheme, now the applications for waivers will be entirely at the discretion of the county manager. This section deals with arrangements for the commencement of sections. When will the section of the Bill which empowers a local authority not to collect refuse where the charge has not been paid commence? We know now that the Government intends that the sections dealing with the transfer of power to the county manager should commence before the Estimates, but when is the section giving local authorities the power not to collect bins to commence?

You also said:
>Of course thanks to the Anti Bin Tax Camapign and the anti Local Government FF/PD Coalition all >these powers now rest with the Manager.

This is really side stepping the issue and distracts from the fundamental point that I raised above which is basically instead of approaching the management of waste from a sustainable point of view, the government/councils and waste company and their lobbies have ensured it will be handled in the most unsustainable way possible . Yet you seem to imply if we just behaved and followed 'procedure' etc it would all have worked out just fine.

Actually I think this whole saga demonstrates what little democratic input there has been in setting policy in this whole area.

by dan kelly - none Mon Jan 22, 2007 18:58

a number of men working with compost bins in waterford city council are after coming down sick with bowel and stomack problems they now give them masks two ware

by Jasper Tue Jan 23, 2007 17:26

The people of Ringsend are right beside a recycling centre that will accept practically anything recyclable. There is no way that a 240 litre black bin should need to be collected every week if they avail of the recycling facilities.

Down the country, there are many areas where private companies collect the black bin and the green bin on alternate weeks yet this seems to be sufficient.

Compost 'bins' aren't always viable unless you have a back garden or unless you have an outlet for the compost. If everyone were to get a compost bin instead of the brown bin, that would be fantastic. There would be no need for a brown bin collection.

But how many people are so proactive in dealing with their waste? I know several of you would consider yourselves to be proactive but for the community at large? I doubt they all are. Which is why we're constantly faced with the problem of dealing with our waste.

Also, the supposed law that allows you to throw your waste onto a stationary bin-lorry is nonsense.