Rent Allowance

by Crazy Cat Mon Jun 23, 2014 15:00

Sorry Jack , got your name wrong. Typical me!

by Crazy Cat Mon Jun 23, 2014 14:31

Hey Joe,

Hope you are still on line...

No easy solutions. I think some sort of squatting system should be set up. Not an easy thing in Ireland having looked at the squatting regulations. BUT I found this article in the Irish Independent

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/squatter-told-he-c....html

So this decision could maybe be used as a jurisprudence ( an exception to the law.)

It's maybe better to be a group, not easy to be up to it on your own.

I see An Spréach Housing Action Committee have started some actions. they're maybe worth a visit.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/104866

by Jack Tue Jun 17, 2014 16:42

I have been looking for a house in Dublin, but have not managed to get one so far. I cannot believe that all the ads on Daft do not accept rent allowance, and the reason is that the rent allowance Dept pays the landlord after four or five months after the house is taken. I have nowhere to go now, and friends cannot put me over anymore. I am really thinking of committing suicide and endind this miserable life. Enough is enough

by gromit Tue Jan 21, 2014 19:33

I agree , It is discrimination on the same level with signs in the 60 s in the UK , which read ( No Blacks, No Dogs
No Irish) . It should be made illegal . The websites that facilitate this need to be held accountable . It is degrading
especially in the current climate. Some Landlords don't even know why they state it. I think they see it on other ads
and just follow suit. I have just been to a viewing of a flat that accepts rent allowance , As usual about forty people
there, all desperate for accommodation , including myself . I was led to believe this was a private viewing . As per usual the Flat on the website looks nothing like the Flat I view . That's all right though cause this landlord accepts rent allowance and they don't give a s***. The shower is absolutely filthy and some body fitted a kitchen in a wardrobe , badly. despite this I will try my best to get this flat because I have been living in my van for the last six months .
This system is not working and I am tired of trying to make it work. The no rent allowance clause , does not help me like some websites suggest all they are doing is making my life hell.

by michelle - mother Tue Nov 12, 2013 13:51

why is rent allowance not accepted ? its discrimination , i have rented for years in this country and never been late with my rent not even once , the place is always kept immaculate and bills paid on time . it is definite money , cannot understand why u would risk to not take it and get a tenant in who has a risk to get sacked and not have the rent , probably dont have kids therefore are not stable or will stay longer than the year , and most likely will have parties and with that you have much more risk of damage to the property , really if landlords had any sense at all they would stop to stereotype and really be more clever before saying no to rent allowance , i know my letting agent had there doubts but with references and garantor , i have had them tell me after six months that they have never had there place looking so well , rent has been on time and bills paid unlike the last tenants who worked , it just goes to show ... please i urge people to think first before discriminating , its more in your benefit to have people on rent allowance , you take more of a risk and increase in turnover of tenants by not accepting rent allowance .

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu May 10, 2012 15:09

..that we gaol the victims of our appropriately named 'criminal law', which is based on the roman feudal 'rights of property' uber alles...and the dispossessed are reduced to minor theft by the predation of the mega-thieves and their dynastic inheritors. Conquest is at the back of every 'legal' claim.

And the word they use for their 'property rights' is 'sacrosanct'.

We need law and order, ok, but not this licenced white-collar mafia's law or order. Thats why radical(at the root)change is necessary, not cosmetic liberalism. The insulation of wealth on its claimants is creating biocidal threats that make anything less useless. The monetised abstraction of resources has evolved into a social psychosis, as it did in 1930's Germany, but it has now gone post-national with a vengeance.

Even Orwell's dystopia was a sustainable(biologically)nightmare, our reality has reduced his fiction to a Disney production.

As the contradictions become increasingly blatant, the mechanisms of social control become increasingly draconian and paranoid.

by Rational Ecologist Thu May 10, 2012 14:40

The Alliance service,on Patrick's quay Cork, provide an excellent support for ex-prisoners.
There are ways around the no Rent Supplement issue, especially if you are currently renting with RS. You can ask the CWO to pay you directly, if you have a good relatioship with him/her.
Rent Supplement is income support for a lot of landlords who don't deserve it.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu May 10, 2012 14:36

I've said it before, I'll say it again...

SQUAT.

The bankers and the speculators did not build these houses, nor did they manufacture the ground they stand on. Nor did the bEUrocrats.
Irish labour(not to be confused with the leisured gentlemen masquerading under the capitalised title)built them.

And just hang a sign out,
WE AIN'T EMIGRATING.
YOU GO FOR A CHANGE.

by Brian Flannery - Justice Thu May 10, 2012 13:38

I have just noticed this posting and I want to state about the lack of after care in housing for prisoners especially those suffering from mental health issues. In the last few weeks I have been informed by members of Simon who work on their own time going around helping the homeless in Dublin and beyond. 60% of young people have been in prison at some stage from the ages of 17 to 30 and yet the lack of interaction between probation social services and the prison authorities who release them literally out onto the streets - it is tragic to say that some of these people re-offend for the sole reason of the certainty of a cell and a bed for the night. Tonight at 9.30 p.m. should be interesting in relation to Irish landlords and the inherent corruption involving social housing provision. There is one thing I know for certain - the programme tonight will not cover either prisoners or mental health and stigma.

Brian Flannery

by Fred Beagle - Shoddy Landlords Thu May 10, 2012 13:24

Ghost Estates, too many houses, negative equity mean housing has become a crisis supply issue.

Govt are penalising landlords with property related taxes and this causes problems with landlords keeping supply of rented property in adequate conditions for tenants

by Deirdre - Stop landlords rejecting people unfairly Thu Jan 19, 2012 17:09 deirdrepoole06 at gmail dot com

It is offensive to see "rent allowance not accepted" and upsetting. especially when you don't have a proper place to live. I have a petition and a facebook page if anyone would like to join. I've been in contact with Jan O' Sullivan and hope to get her help. I believe it is going against the equality legislation. Disabled people do get rent allowance and their being targeted without having a chance to plead their case. Its time to either add people on any form of social welfare to the legislation or make it so that the landlord cannot ask for the tenants source of income. If they get their deposit, first months rent and the rent paid on time i don't see what the problem is.

Please join me. No one will listen to just one person. I have 46 signatures on my petition so far, its good but not enough. please sign and join my page if you want to make a difference.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-people-getting-...irly/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-landlords-rejecting...15817

please no negative feedback. ive been called a prostitute on boards.ie and a c**t on facebook already.

by anne Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:47

i myself am co habitating wit my partner and i am only getting 23 euro a week for a three bed house and it costs 170 euro a week. in have three children to support. the reason for this is because we are over the means off the supplement we are entitled to. i find this very annoying as i have done the right thing or at least i thought i did.does this country even know what it is doing to the ordinary people anymore and to the children growin up today.

by kate mary Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:47

I have a house in Ireland that I'm trying to rent as I'm having to stay with a family member to care for them, In the years I've lived in the house I have done it all up, it has double glazed doors and windows and central heating and underfloor heating in the lovely bathroom etc etc but some people took it on and they have been turned down by the rent allowance people as they say the windows are too small!!!! It's a farm house with standard windows!!!...so now I have to advertise it saying No Rent Allowance as house not eligible...it's just worth a thought that maybe it's not always down to discrimination...the authorities are very tight on approving properties

by Mary - renting Tue Oct 25, 2011 21:46 galway

i have see that on ads before and it should not be allow.i went into a house me and my partner and what was said on the ad was .

1] 3 bed house ,400 depoist and a months rent ,centrel heating,parking,no smokers allow,no pets allow.
    thats a joke that you cant smoke in a house or cant have pets either the house turned out not to be great  it
     was hard to heat plus it was damp in places and cold at times and the the landlady was a nightmare i lved there for 7 mths
      jan to sep people out there be carefull renting out a place.

by jimiburnotoes Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:11

I come from the UK originally and had the same problem. if you take local authority housing when your on benefits, you wind up stuck in a tower block or council estate, where most people are decent and want to get on with a quiet life..but more often than not there is a element of dysfunctional idiots, who have no hope and are intent on ruining the lives of everyone around them...along with the usual smack heads who also usually get housed in social housing and bring that extra bit hopelessness and theft to an area.
Because social housing is always for poor people the police and government do not bother to root out the negative elements, instead the bad elements are allowed to gain complete control and run places like estates..both in the UK and Ireland and in various other countries.
So if you want a quite life and your on benefits, your fucked. As your going to be denied living in a low crime area, as all those houses are massively expensive and they discriminate against social welfare claimants.
About 10 years ago before i came to ireland i lived in the UK. I was on the dole at the time and looking for a place to live, So after seeing all these "no housing benefit" tags in my local paper, under almost every advert for housing..I went to the local council and told the woman behind the desk. She said that the council would pay me direct to my bank account and that I could just bullshit landlords and say I had a job...so it would be me paying the landlord direct without them even knowing I was on benefits. Problem solved. Will they be this flexible in Ireland..I fucking doubt it.
As this country is about a million times more bureaucratic than England even, which is saying something.
Not only that but almost every worker in the state system is a complete fucking waster here, who doesn't listen, take down details, answer your letters, return your phone calls, or do anything productive...yet apparently the state employes something like a third of the country or is it two thirds??? And yet your beyond lucky if you find one person who even listens to you.

by Maggie Mai - Property Sun Jun 26, 2011 14:43

Fire Sales with some 60 houses yet only two properties made it to offer stage and possibly closure. This states that the Irish property market is on its knees because risk-takers are hammered, affordable housing is no longer, and people are wondering if owning a house is the best option, or is renting a better option. We have to await some slight bit of confidence to kick start property again as has happened in the South of England and in particular London.

Interesting to hear about the prejudice in the UK. It takes to mind those adverts in the 1960's which read 'No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs'. It say's that Discrimination is still alive and kicking in the UK and no doubt in Ireland in a far more subtle way.

Ireland is slightly different to the UK in that the Celtic Tiger was in a way an invitation to potential investors to divest from the State the role of being Landlord i.e. Dublin City Council, in receipt of rents and thereby responsible for maintenance and upkeep of Co. Council/Corporation estates, houses etc. The fools rushed in and now we have the real problem of apartment blocks with management committees and agencies hiking up massive bills for owners/renters/vacant properties with no guidance from the state whatsoever. The next scandal will be this, I reckon. Bullying is taking place in a lot of the complexes that were bought during the Celtic Tiger but it just doesn't penetrate media coverage.

Delighted to hear about the Regeneration funds for Moyross/Southill. Decades of blatant mismanagement by the Limerick Authorities saw a development of properties with no services and pure neglect of responsibility deteriorate into a den of crime, poverty, and property deterioration. Let us learn from this please.

Social housing is now the preserve of those investors who took the risk and invested in the section 23 and other tax break schemes. The PRTB is toothless and inadequate to act as the umbrella to ensure owners of properties act as responsible landlords. Many estates now have a good social mix but the problem coming down the road is that there is no Overseer.

Many landlords who took risks are now to the pin of their collar to make repayments on negative equity properties; many are in default situations and the writing is on the wall for properties being penalised. Now the latest is the 200 e. Govt levy to be paid by the end of this month? What happens if you have rented out your property; the tenant refuses to pay rent; and you haven't got the 200 e. All this is now highly possible. The people who win here are who? the solicitors ( you can't afford); the State who presses charges for non payment....bad mess ahead. Stealth taxes have become the order of the day. Water charges are the next imposition and if we look to the UK, these will amount to approx 380 e. or more. Vision is badly needed. We need to consolidate and act rather than use stealth taxes.

by catwithcream Sat Jun 25, 2011 18:24

I live in the UK and it is quiet common for landlords to put in thier advert that they do no want tenants on benefits, infact it is very hard to find a landlord here that will take you if you are not going to be paying the rent yourself. It is discrimination and should not be allowed.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Jun 22, 2011 15:10

Done that, have the T-shirts. Even went offshore and fished the porcupine.

So its a landlord's country still. But we have to stand by till you need a slave-force again, unless you can import some poorer set of slobs from outside.

And meantime the workers pay for the gambling losses of the landlord class as they diversify their capital(earned off our sweat) into casinos, tourism or chinese sweat-shops.

Just what sort of worker are you?Estate agent would be my guess.

Dont expect society to pay?We are fucking society, and some of us are sick and tired of paying landlords for the houses WE built. THEIR houses,built by us, and now bailed out by us. And lying empty while our rents rise. Grow a brain.

by Baztard Wed Jun 22, 2011 14:29

Regardless of how many properties a landlord has it is entirely their decision as to who they should or should not rent THEIR property to. If they do not wish to rent to people in receipt of social welfare etc then fair enough. The sense of entitlement that some people seem to think is their right is a priviledge paid for by the workers of this country really pisses me off. If you can't afford kids then don't expect society to pay for them for you. If you can't find work and genuinely want to then emigrate or move to where the work is, those who really want to work will always find a way, not wallow in pity. I wish someone would give me almost €1000 a month for my accommodation but I'm not entitled!

by Church Mouse. Wed Feb 23, 2011 20:39

When Cork County Council outsourced bin collections to the privare sector the 40 year old subsidy to poor people disappeared.

by Sceptic . - None whatsoever Fri Aug 06, 2010 16:13

what a lot of people casually forget about rent allowance is this, example ,why should a girl
with a very young child opt to 'reside' in some of the hell holes in and around Dublin , have
we forgotten the sheer amount of gurriers who set out to cause havoc should a new tenant
with a baby or young child arrive to a block of flats or a 3 bed semi in an undesirable drug
den of which this city is plagued with today , i have seen some young girls take up residence
in the above ( unmentioned kips ) only to either suffer harrasment , intimidation , offers of
grugs and so on .

Dublin City Council ought to be ashamed of themselves , but as per usual they are not , to
even contemplate such an offer to a young girl ( or a young family ) given their couldn't care
less attitude towards their present tenants is proof in itself of their utter contempt .

The rat holes around this city are reeking with druggies , and the corpo know only too well
where they are located . The gardai ( who patrol ) in these areas love it because it means a
quick promotion to better times ahead .

What ever chance a decent family have of survival in rented accomodation in the private
sector they have fuck all chance in these hell holes on earth ...

The Corpo are full of their own manure , they have televised meetings on city channel in
order to show us the councellors in action , skuttering and skuttering and clapping each
other on the back in full view of the few dozen viewers who even bother to 'tune in '.

The majority of staff in Dublin City Council offices , located in fishamble street think they are
above everybody else , they could'nt care less about complaints of anti social behaviour &
act like the morons they are , as long as the corpo get the rent paid out of social welfare
directly into their bank account they otherwise couldn't give a tuppeny about their tenants .

by Brian Thompson Wed Aug 04, 2010 09:49 brian at businesspro dot ie 91 kylemore drive dublin 0852427420

Hello

I personally believe that you will be doing more damage to rent allowance tennants if RENT ALLOWANCE ACCEPTED is taken from letting websites..

Ill tell you why , If RENT ALLOWANCE ACCEPTED is not to be published anymore then tennants wil still be overlooked in comparison to standard tennants , because when the landlord receives multiple applications then he will ultamitalely go for the tennant he has not got rent allowance anyway.

So all this would do is waste a substantilal amount of time for people with Rent Allowance viewing apartments that they are never going to get.

At least with Rent Allowance not accepted.. you know you are not wasting your time

Please leave it as it is so people know where they stand

Regards

by Eleanor - Housing provision Tue May 11, 2010 16:09

Janet - when you use the rhetoric 'why should I pay for you and your child' and then add up the costs to say 12,000 e for a year - the message becomes louder and in need of immediate clarity. What has happened.

Did we privatise social housing during the Celtic Tiger? How did we finance it? I suppose the tax breaks are the factors in this crucial equation. The Government saw public housing and services as a big White costly Elephant in their back yard and they decided to dump on the people by way of section 23 breaks. People forget that these started way back in the early 1980's and if this is so the policy makers in Govt. could well grasp their impact in relation to social housing.

The RTE programme on Ghost Estates throughout the country provided a scary documentary. People were conned. The houses shown all were sizeable, well fitted out, the dream home potential but they lacked one major factor and market economics provides an answer here and that is meeting supply with demand. This basic equation was ignored by all, the developers, the planners, the builders, the purchasers. There was a run with the planning authorities in the grant of planning permissions to developers (some of whom were not aloof to providing bribes) and hence the mess of our countryside. Just look at Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Kilmessan - greed has destroyed the potential, the history, the landscape and the people. The owners of the land that sold it or now too rich and wondering where to invest their monies while a large proportion of these people are in debt to negative equity minus not one but two jobs and probably have children as well. Then there are the speculators, young, old, and those with their annuity pension funds who decided to take a chance and become a speculator looking for both income and capital appreciation... we cannot forget these people. We also cannot forget that these captured people were and are the targets of a government policy to shift social housing from the public to private sector.

Back to Sharon and her child. If I am a speculator and deem myself to have relieved the local authority housing provider and was enticed to do so by tax breaks, well the least I expect is to get the market rent for my investment (which may be 100% loan and expenses pa paid by landlord). Sharon and her child are not at fault that they qualify for rent allowance. There will always be a need for social housing because society is about vulnerabilities and inequalities and it is our elected Government who has the job of keeping 'their house in order'.

What can we do? Matt Cooper, journalist was on the Frontline Pat Kenny show last night. He is suggesting that people badly affected by the negative equity, the ghost estates, get a support from Govt. via the Banks with the name of Debt Forgiveness. This is a kind of swap between debt and equity and it means that the speculators and those who cannot meet their mortgage repayments are provided with support. This is needed and the irony is that people on both sides of the fence need it. The speculator who provides the house for the local authority who pays the rent allowance to the person who needs accommodation.

Then there are the people whose income has dropped and they can't meet mortgage repayments - a similar support is needed by them so that they can continue to live in their home, with their children, without having to be evicted and then look for rent allowance and possibly not qualify for it.

It is essential to look at this housing issue in the context of all the factors involved. It is worth looking at some of the research done over the past 10 years by our universities. Professor Drudy and Mr. Punch make really interesting reading.

We may have a surplus of houses but then we also have potential major social housing problems arising as people lose their jobs and the market price of houses fall. Anxiety becomes a major player and stress added to the equation often throws up glitches i.e. ill health, divorce, abuse etc.

People need to think. Why can't govt take back their responsibility for providing houses to social housing tenants? They could start by being efficient in relation to rent allowance allocations presently. They have the PRTB and yet landlords with section 23 properties are way behind in submitting their PRSI details - they say as low as 20%.

Awareness and diligence is needed. The truth is that the state operates through a rent allowance and for a number of years this was the greatest bandwagon for speculators and estate agents. Tenants too were not above reproach. The system became badly broken. There were many scams and this has to be tidied up. Then let us get to grips with genuine debt forgiveness equations.

Eleanor

by Robbed. Sun May 09, 2010 20:44

"This whole social and subsidised housing racket is one of the most costly and pernicious follies ever perpetrated by the state"

The multiple pensions of our politicians might come in a close second.

Not to mention the fact that the starting pay of Irish hospital doctors exceeds the pay of almost every politician in Europe.
.

by Alex Fri Dec 25, 2009 15:51

I have the same problem with the dog. We can't find a nice house where the landlord would agree for a dog. We've been looking for 6 months now, in Dublin. This is Lab, trained and quite old and there's no way he could destroy anything. In any case the landlord holds the deposit, so what's the problem? We don't wanna live in slums or any crappy cold and old house just because we own a dog, who by the way is the family member.

by Eleanor - Housing Provision Sat Dec 05, 2009 16:07

Sarah

Well written. I hope by now you have found a place particularly as Christmas is so close. If your rent allowance is Euros 930, I would suggest that given reports about the surplus property particularly the tax incentive property on the market, there ought to be no difficulty getting a home for that amount, particularly when rent allowance would be a guaranteed payment from the Government.

We need greater transparency between the Estate Agents, the Community Welfare Officers, the HSE and the private tenancy groups like HAIL and Church Communities.

There are people homeless on our streets, people with mental health problems living in unacceptable accommodation and unlike the 1980's, there is the accommodation to provide for them now, it is just in a LIMBO place due to the economic crisis. Like in the case of private companies public services too stand in need of Restructuring and root and branch cuts. People fail to talk of the advantages when cuts take place. Many a successful entrepreneur has been casualty of a recession in the past.

Sarah where would you like to live with your child ideally - maybe we can help via the web. It might wake up the elephant in the room bureaucracy and stop them thinking about striking for extra pay. We need a little more sharing and caring in this society.

by Sarah Thu Dec 03, 2009 16:27

I totally agree with your comment. It is a disgrace in this day and age that people are made to feel like second class citizens.. I am a lone parent and am finding it very difficult getting anywhere to live that is decent. The limit for me is €930, where am i going to find a suitable place for me and my son who is 11 for that kind of money.. Need to get back to training also, can't do this till i find a home for us.. at my wits end with this crap..... why wasn't the limit left alone at €1,000 per month.. crazy....

by Knowledge - Implementation of Law - rent allowance Sat Jul 04, 2009 16:51

I agree with you adline ...... there is a strong history of lanlords in Ireland buying property, letting it out in units and getting paid rent. It is a known to most people that Rathmines properties had a large contingent of owners, who worked in say the Gardai.

However, the time has come for change. The PRTB has been established but being like a quango, we must demand a certain standard from it and to do this it must have teeth.

Likewise can be said for the Rent Allowance. Markets are about supply and demand but if bullies exist, they need to be subject to the rigours of the law. This would give the scenario of a rising tide, losing the dross i.e. not the tenants but the landlords who are devoid of scruples.

Presently, people in receipt of rent allowance have been asked by adverts in the papers to approach their landlords for a reduction in their rent. This is not unfair, it only become unfair, if their landlord does not agree and asks their tenant to quit.

I have seen rent allowance paid to people in a room in say the attic of a Victorian House, in D4, when the Community Officer, fails to uphold the rights of their people in need of social housing.

Now is the time to start change from the bottom up.

by Adline Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:58

The thing is, I think it is more about the landlord not wanting to declare and pay is taxes than discrimination... Many of them pretend that one of their child is living on their property while they are abroad so they don't pay taxes!!!

by wheelo - NONE Wed Jun 03, 2009 23:43

Maybe the landlord is afraid to declare the amount he/she is taken from individuals forced to rent. There should be a public list of registered landlords, to protect the tenant. A rent book should be insisted on.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics: Dignity Sat May 09, 2009 22:15

Rogue Tenants

I totally agree with you about Dublin City Council taking responsibility for the payment of Rent Allowance to the Landlord.

Affordable housing remains in chaos as a result of the fall in market prices. DAFT and Myhome.ie have recently released figures to say that the market is flooded with 23,000 homes to rent.....

In the meantime, landlords who have been badly burnt through the Rent Allowance scheme ..... are slow to enter into similar arrangements with new tenants and therefore would rather wait on the books of an estate agent for months so as not to get a rent allowance tenant.

It is time for some serious thinking about housing and apartment rental. The media could assist by highlighting the matter.

The local authorities need to come up with a stategy.....if we were lucky with this......the famous toxic debts could be reduced...

23,000 surplus houses. This is a quantified number, surely.

If as Rogue Tenants suggest, the Local Authorities took some additional responsibility and paid the Rent Allowances to the Landlords and then created a form of Management Team to work in liaison or as an arm of the PRTB, then the affordable housing list, could be further accommodated and people in need of housing could be housed, under the auspices of the Local Authorities.

Otherwise, we will revert to a similar situation as the Pre 63 houses. Rooms will be let out, with little or no control. Owners will be looking for profit based on capital appreciation rather than income that can be logged and therefore proper tax minus deductions paid. Surely, this would enhance the values of property again and reduce the estimated toxic debts......

Michelle Clarke

by Rogue Tenants. Tue May 05, 2009 08:57

"The rent allowance needs attention. The amount ought to be administered from Dublin City Council and paid directly to the Landlord. This then would be registered to the PRTB and one would have more control over a black economy that has served both the tenant and the landlord in the past."

Also,local authorities should immediately deal with troublesome tenants if they inflicted them on the landlord.

Some tenants don't pay and the landlord has to go through the courts to get them out.

This takes months at a minimum.

Meanwhile the "tenant" is effectively a squatter.

If you steal a can of beans from a supermarket the guards are on to you instantly.

Same rules should apply to rogue tenants...and rogue landlords.
.

by Kevin T. Walsh - Social Justice and Ethics: Dignity Sun May 03, 2009 19:55

The figures have doubled in this year alone.

Unemployment is continuing to rise, people are struggling to pay the mortgages on their homes.

What you focus on expands.......or so the saying goes. Free Legal Advice Centre is worth keeping as a bookmark.

To people out there who have mortgages, keep looking for alternatives. Sound recommendations put to authorities can bear fruit......

The mortgage interest supplment has increased from 4,111 (2007) to 9,616 last year.

There is an Oireactas committee on Social and Family Affairs.......they review trends in personal debt.

There has been a 500% increase in 4 months to the FLAC helpline.

People are still being imprisoned for non payment of small debts. With the economic recession, the parameters ought to change, given the provisions made for the large debtors. It is worth noting that over 1,000 people have been imprisoned for non payment of debts in the past 5 years.

How much do you think it costs the State to imprison a person for a week? The article in the Evening Heraqld by Kevin Doyle suggests around Euros 2,000.......

People, need to sidestep Envy and replace it with a networking system contributing how to manage effectively the housing stock to ensure all people have a roof over their head. Some form of a utility tax could be appropriate for all those Georgian Houses, in the City Environs, (given that the Environs now have the Luas, bus routes, taxis etc.). To increase the density in the population could make sense.

There is the approx. Euros 10,000 p.a. tax incentive, and financially chanllenged people could use a Monday to Thursday accommodation provision, from a country area, if it was more economically viable.

The rent allowance needs attention. The amount ought to be administered from Dublin City Council and paid directly to the Landlord. This then would be registered to the PRTB and one would have more control over a black economy that has served both the tenant and the landlord in the past.

Common Sense is what we need and at grassroots level. We all can contribute now via the internet but over the last number of years, emails were passed over as bureaucracy entrenched itself further down a black hole. This can be stopped. Creativity and Innovation are the new criteria.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics: Dignity Thu Apr 30, 2009 18:52

There was a time, when Ireland addressed the hideous problem of building homes for people who had lived in extreme poverty, in tenement buildings. It is worth going to the National Archives if you have some time to view the living standards of the early 20th century.

We built houses via the Corporation, the Council and some charitable trusts. The infamous Ballymun flats were deemed inadequate for the life style of people, even though England and many other countries built similar complexes instead of houses.

The problem I see is that over the last few decades, Govt. policy has been to divest maintenance of properties to speculators and private landlords, by depleting the number of houses build. The collapse of the building market has left bureaucrats slow on the up-take to use the opportunity to find an equitable price and sell to people on their housing lists. The research is done, one needs on use the net and enter Trinity Colege Dublin and access the most interesting reports of Professor Drudy. The expertise at an intellectual level exists what we need is negotiation.

Some people opted to invest in say a section 23 house in say Rathfarnham and guaranteed the revenue of keeping it let for a period of time (10 years) I think. It may have been their decision to use this as an investment for say a pension (many people work either self employed or in companies who have no pension schemes). These are not ruthless landlords.....necessarily.

I know of someone who has had endless problems with a house let through rent allowance (by equitable choice). You pay the auctioneer and you ask for total management. Then the standing order of the balance stops and starts and then stops again. Is it not better the Dublin City Council pays and monitors/manages the property portfolio itself. Then the rent allowance is the core payment to the owner and it can't get abused........I wonder, as the homeless numbers rise, how many properties lie idle due to the ineptitude of a monalith of bureacracy and a contingent of cute ?'s.......The PRTB is toothless.......it is advisory.....the landlord pays the fee......but the reality is that there are vacant houses and people in need of homes.

Michelle Clarke

Michelle Clarke

by dean Tue Apr 28, 2009 06:11

hi guys, i've been following this debate with interest and i have observed that very few of you seem to be able to get over being discriminated against. and although i empathise with your anger over being victimised like that it is affecting your judgement to the extent that it is causing you to ignore the one reasonable suggestion made that has the capacity to improve the situation. RENT CONTROL is the only solution. changing the wording on advertisements for housing is not going to achieve anything, except give you a brief moment of pride with the introduction of legislation and then a long depression and feeling of impotence when the landlords simpy up the rent to price you out of the market. all the leglislation in the world will not change the fact that some people are arseholes, there will always be discrimination of some sort; it is human nature to pre-select based on personal preferences. trying to change this fact of life with new leglislation is pissing into the wind. RENT CONTROL is the only way to get property speculators and landlords to reform their greedy practices.
the provision of social housing by the government is also paramount, indeed if there was enough social housing then the issue of rent allowance would be redundant. the almost insane need for irish people to "own me own gaff" is what has given the developers licence to shaft the common people. europeans can live quite comfortably renting for the most of their lives without any feelings of inadequacy.. aren't we irish even partly european now? granted in most other european countries there is a much more plentiful supply of social houses and RENT CONTROLLED flats along with legislation granting tenants sureity of tenure and rights comparable to homeowners. all these things could be implemented here in ireland if there was enough concensus.

In the UN Declaration of Human Rights every person has the right to a home, yet this right was deliberately left out of the irish constitution by the gombeen bastards who drew it up. the top 1% of the population would have to give up 10% of their wealth to provide this housing after all.

by Homeless Sat Apr 25, 2009 23:34

they added 5 euro to the contribution of the person seeking rent allowance.

it has gone from 13 euro to 18 euro

this has effectively reduced the amount an unemployed person has to live on by approx another 2% on top of the xmas bonus which was essentially a 2% cut

What really gets me about being unemployed ( apart from poverty ) is the way they only start really harassing you to look for work when there is no longer any available. How can they expect you get a job when they have all dried up due to recession and there are now thousands more people looking for those very few jobs that do exist.

by blandy Fri Apr 24, 2009 15:17

its only down the road cheers il try that

by pat c Fri Apr 24, 2009 14:53

You should get advice regarding your specific case from one of the Congress Centres. Theres a link to a full list below.

The Congress Centres Network (CCN) is comprised of 25 Congress Centres across the country, north and south, offering a range of services to people who are unemployed as well as those in employment. Congress Centres have built a strong presence in their local communities, where they have well-established links and are recognised as providing quality services and supports to those communities.

The first Congress Centres were established by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) in the 1980s to support the large number of workers made unemployed during successive periods of economic recession. However since then services and supports provided by individual Centres and the Congress Centres Network as a whole have grown in response to the changing needs of the communities they serve.

http://www.ictu.ie/about/centres/centreslisting.html

by blandy Fri Apr 24, 2009 13:50

just a quick question, i applied for rent rent allowance recently after losing my job of 7 years, i jumped through all the hoops,social welfare papers, the land lords papers, city hall papers and countless other scraps of paper and proof that times are hard, i live with my girlfriend who works which is why i was refused, my question is what could i write in the appeal? that i dont live in my girlfriends pocket and how long will it be before she gets sick of carrying me? and when she does il be outside your door applying for even more anyway, were both still in our 20's, dont say get a job because handing information about my whole life over to these people is really the last resort at the moment

by blandy Fri Apr 24, 2009 13:50

just a quick question, i applied for rent rent allowance recently after losing my job of 7 years, i jumped through all the hoops,social welfare papers, the land lords papers, city hall papers and countless other scraps of paper and proof that times are hard, i live with my girlfriend who works which is why i was refused, my question is what could i write in the appeal? that i dont live in my girlfriends pocket and how long will it be before she gets sick of carrying me? and when she does il be outside your door applying for even more anyway, were both still in our 20's, dont say get a job because handing information about my whole life over to these people is really the last resort at the moment

by Silas Supported - pending anarchist Thu Apr 09, 2009 02:31

they are part of the 'inner circle'

by Silas Marner - immaculate of men of ireland Thu Apr 09, 2009 01:18

I think perhaps wrongly ,the landlords in general are ok , but , in the system of ''landlording',' an awful lot depends on the people who are renting the prop
how you appear, how you behave, what your present situation is ,and so on , the rent allowance although necessary, is a 'Monster of Such' to some landlords who view a rent allowance form from the H.S.E. as some form of'' nosey parkers device'' and is regarded with a fear of being exposed to ''whatever '' and a threat of interference to boot .

Make no mistake re the power of a landlord who at his discretion may contact a garda station at will ,in order to check out a possible tenant, as he has a
duty of care to his mortgage lender ,his neighbours and so on . That is not to say all rent allowance persons are possible trouble makers ,its just the aura
in which a rent allowance form seems to portray .

Dublin City Council now have a far better input in regard to housing and to my knowledge have a far superior method of checking out tenants
no matter who they are , and proper order ................................................

by V - for Vendetta Wed Apr 08, 2009 13:20

I totally agree Hank - but it needs to come from the Govt - the Govt should make a new law that says ANYONE who is renting a property in Ireland cannot discriminate on the grounds of social status. As long as the tenant can pay the rent, that should be the paramount criteria and not where that payment is coming from.

Or have those in power forgotten the lessons of the past when many a boarding house in England or New York displayed the sign 'Irish not Welcome'

by Mistified - Tennant Tue Aug 26, 2008 01:08 amouress_12 at hotmail dot com

Am in The famours Rental Accomodation Scheme, was in private rented for most of my life and had no problems at all, living with normal people coming and going and nobody noising into your business. Moved into a RAS or Rental Accomodation Scheme which is a contract with the Landlord with the Council and meself the Tennant. Have a nutter of a woman living next door to me who makes my life hell and I know was the cause of me getting an eviction notice from the Landlord and the Council just sit back and do nothing, well if I was a landlord and getting paid 750 euro a month even if the flat isn't occupied for whatever length you'd have no hesitaton in giving an eviction notice which he knows is illegal. Won't go into the ins and outs of it, but I seriously would advise anybody on Rent Allowance to not get involved with this scheme, If you refuse 3 places you are off Rent Allowance for a year, now that is intimidation. The Council crap alll over you when you try to fight your case and there is not one educated git working for them. I think there should be a campaign against the RAS scheme taking over and getting rid of the Rent Allowance Scheme, as your right to find a place that you like is being totally taken away from you, and believe me eventhough the Council pay the rent and you pay a small amount a week, you end up less well off that you were on Rent Allowance.

PUSH the RAS scheme out CAMPAIGN should be started up. They have not done the ground work and havien't a bulls ass of a clue what they are doing and your are totally at the mercy of their indignities.........this country is becoming a dictator state...Watch Out...

Cheers and repeat Campaign against RAS Scheme would go a long way towards freedom of choice....

Thank you,

Mistified

by daft Tue Jul 15, 2008 00:49

Hi all,
I was recently searching for rental accomodation for myself and three others. We are all teachers with secure jobs and are between 21 and 22 years of age. When enquiring about a certain house to rent, I was confronted with a very rude auctioneer who blatantly discriminated against me on the basis of age. I simply asked this auctioneer if it was possible to view this house and he replied "Yes of course" and we arranged a time. Then the auctioneer asked me if i had "All the relevant documents and landlord references" . My reply to this was that we had all stayed in student accomodation for the last number of years and we could get a reference from them. Suddenly the auctioneer became very rude and shouted down the phone "STUDENTS NOOOOOOOO" and proceeded to convey his disgust for the mention of the word 'students'. It took quite a while for me to gain an opportunity to explain: "No we are not students". Suddenly the auctioneer became even more foul and chirped "Ok but ages are you all?"... "I'm not sure if the landlord would like a bunch of young people renting his house you know". Don't you agree that this is blatant AGE DISCRIMINATION. This absolutely enraged me as myself and the other three persons are extremely quiet, well mannered people. In fact, I know that we would be perfect tenants for a landlord and would cause absolutely no hassle. In the end, the auctioneer said he would ring back to inform me if we were allowed to view the house... yes VIEW the house, we weren't even alowed to look at it! We didn't view this particular house.

When viewing houses to rent, we encountered another auctioneer who discriminated against us based on age. He kept announcing "We will keep a close eye on you... We will watch you etc etc" as we walked around the house. Then, I asked him "Who would we contact if we had a problem at any time, would it be yourself or the landlord directly?". The response to this simple question epitomises ignorance and discrimination in my opinion... it goes as follows: "Well actually I would be Very suprised if you had Any problems with this particular house, In Fact I believe that if anything it would be me ringing you with problems. No parties allowed and if you do even attempt it, we have neighbours on both side of this house who will be watching your every move and they will contact us at all times". Well I nearly laughed out loud at the utter ignorance of this comment. The cheek of this man discriminating against us based on age like this. I was extremely annoyed. In the end, we obviously did not rent this house either as it would not be worth the hassle of being watched despite the fact that we would not be doing anything wrong.
I am sure that you agree that the behaviour of both of these auctioneers is absolutely appauling. It is age discrimination and something which should not be allowed. That said, I don't know what can be done about this? I suppose we will just have to ignore and shun the people who engage in discriminatary behaviour and avoid them at all costs. That's what I will be doing anyways and the next time I am viewing houses to rent, I simply wont be considering any auctioneers or landlords that condone this type of behaviour or engage in this behaviour either.

by Hank Wed Jun 25, 2008 04:07

You either accept that it'd discrimination or not. If you accept that it is discrimination then you must decide if discrimination is OK. If you believe that discrimination is OK then you don't have a problem. To make it simple, if they put “no blacks allowed” the majority of Irish people would be genuinely disturbed by that. This is essentially no different. There exists a real risk of homelessness for people on social welfare who must claim rent allowance. Remember significant numbers of people will never be in a position to buy a house and therefore they must rent. Why should they be stigmatised and abused ? Read the stories here told by decent people who are being treated like dogs. Is is that OK? Housing is a human right.

by Conal Tue Jun 24, 2008 21:31 tricksco at hotmail dot com

I would like to comment on Hanks article regarding rent allowance discrimination..I myself am annoyed that Hank decided to take issues into his own hands. Yes the wording may be offensive but to be honest, as a person looking for a place to live I would like to have this information ....whether or not the tennant will accept rent allowance. I am constantly being rejected because I am seeking a place that will accept it and If i knew before hand that they didn't it would have saved a lot of time and energy and heart break. Tennants have the right to refuse whom ever they want and I have the right to know if I will be refused.

by lindaosullivan Fri Jun 13, 2008 20:30 lindaosullivan20 at gmail dot com 269-3298 086

myself and my partner and 2 children are looking for a house to rent .every ad we reply to we are told no rent allowance.i cannot understand this as the landlord is sure to get their rent every month.we are at our wits end at this stage.

by conec Thu Jun 12, 2008 14:41 conecx at gmail dot com

I have posted on this thread a few times. We are looking for someone to move into our house and yes RA is accepted. Have gotten 1 phone call so far. Weird!
Would be a total hypocrite if I didnt post this notice here. My email address is further up this thread. I live in Dublin.
There you go.

by RAS Wed Apr 30, 2008 14:46

Wait until Home Owner realises that they can buy a second house and get tenants to pay off the mortgage, then they'll be all in favour of the rental sector.

by hank Wed Apr 30, 2008 04:50

I'm assuming home owners post is not a wind up. Everyone must at some point confront their fears and prejudice's. It's not pretty when you come against them. Feels kind dirty and nasty but still we have intelligence and the ability to work with them. Remember you would not have the audacity to print this if it were black people or Polish people living there. View it as a opportunity to learn and grow. We are all the same species after all. Living in fear and insecurity like this is painful. No doubt the travellers don't feel to secure at the side of the road either.

And anyway what about the rights of people who need somewhere to live? You have a place to live. Many people do not. Why attack them?

by Gypsy Mon Apr 28, 2008 16:24

Home owner I think your comments are sailing very close to being a case of blatant discrimination by blaming Travellers for lowering the price of your property?

When all the world and his dog know that there is a current slump in the property market!

by home owner - n/a Mon Apr 28, 2008 01:21

I'm a home owner and recently travellers moved into our estate. We bought the house a year a half ago and there was no social or council housing allocated to our estate, this was one of the deciding factors in us purchasing the house. Now another landlord who bought a house in the estate is renting it to the council under this new RAS scheme which in my opinion is a back-stabbing way of the council getiing into private estates without planning permission. they have moved two travelling families into the estate which is a disgrace, as the value of our property is now decreased. it is our first home and our start on the property ladder. I think that this is an absolute disgrace as our rights are over looked and under minded by this RAS scheme. If there is no social housing alloction haw can the council get away with what they are doing. it is an outrage. There is designed social housing areas i can't see why we have to suffer the loss of value in our property because of the council's lack of organisation in providing socail housing.

by lucho - latinoamerican Sat Apr 05, 2008 23:17

i dont understand why the landlords has to be like that!!
just someone evict me last friday cause i invited my friend to eat
the lanlord say ,to me if he dont go away i will call the police
and i say wait till we finish ,eat but not he told me he give me a week to left his place
i dont understand realy i have the rights to have friends too.

by tony - none Tue Mar 18, 2008 18:31

went to the people incharge of rent allowence and im told that depending on your income, amont of children and your martial staus the cut off point is 150-170 which is well below many new apartments and houses

by conec - none Tue Feb 26, 2008 18:04 conecx at gmail dot com

I'm doing a documentary on rent allowance for college with looking to get proper funding to make another longer one. I will also be looking for a place myself and Yes I do need rent allowance. if anyone who comes to this posting wants to tell me their experience with RA then I would be really grateful. You can email me. Cheers

by bigbut Fri Feb 08, 2008 17:50 karensendtome at yahoo dot com Harolds cross Dublin

Here is an idea why don't people who are in rented accomadation, and who are already claiming rent allowance. Post a comment on this web site when they intend to move or hear of someone else moving from their flat or house. Then people can ring the landlord knowing he/she accepts rent allowance, and try for the flat or house. Most are dives but you can have a look.

by claudia Fri Jan 11, 2008 14:53 claudiadandoczi at yahoo dot ie

hi me name is claudia i have 2 kids and i looking for a house to rent and im very uppset cos i have to go out for me house until 5 of februarie and there are no houses to let for me cos i have social welfare....what can i do now go out with me 2 kids?this is impossible i live in clonsilla and me lanllord has put the rent up to 1400 per mounth i can afford that ...so were to go now.this is horrable why the lanlords not accept social welfare??were the people have to go now...with the kids...on the street???so if sombody can help me with a rent in clonsilla or clonee area please call me on 0861255125.thanks.

by Whoff Fri Oct 19, 2007 18:38

no Cats either, no smoking either. You should get your name immediately down on the council and who knows in 15 years (maybe ) you might get an interview.
_Ya, A mans best friend is a Dog_

by Salty100 Fri Oct 19, 2007 17:21

I'm renting out my (small) place and am more than happy to accept rent allowance - the money is coming from the government, so you can always be sure of it. Also, people who receive rent allowance can be in a wide variety of situations, so landlords who don't accept it are simply overlooking a whole section of potential tenants.

(Incidentally, I'm looking for a place to rent myself as moving back to home county, and I'm having major problems finding a place that accepts dogs, even though loads of studies show that having dogs greatly reduces the risk of a house being broken into. Dog discrimination, if you like)

by Tom - BLF Consultants Mon Oct 08, 2007 00:17 blf at rock dot com

The concept of Private Property is fundamental to a free society. Without it, where would we be ?
The alternative of a communistic state where all property is owned by an elite on the pretence of managing it for the masses is just not desirable, or workable.

The fact is we have a Republic, at least on the face of it, is also good in that people have the right to speak their mind and the Constitution can be invoked to protect citizens from overzealous government intrusion into their personal and private affairs.

Landlords are merely Private Property owners who have, by one menas or another, aquired property. In my case, I scraped the money together doing low paid work, bought a plot of land, applied for planning permission, and over 12 years have worked various jobs to riase the money for materials to build my own house by my own labour. I was unable to secure mortgage or credit due to a combination of racism and economic discrimination from the likes of banks and building societies. Undeterred I now own my own private property and they have no hold over me by way of mortgage or debt.

Having been in the uneviable position of being considered a foreigner, (I hail from the UK) I know first hand what discrimination in ireland means. Excuses given by landlords are too numerous to repeat here (theres not enough space) and included of course not accepting persons in receipt of rent allowance, and not accepting children, or pets.

I did not like the myriad of excuses, but I respect their right to be selective. However, as the years roll by I see that many property owners who are, as you say, mere speculators who have borrowed from the banks and then expect a tenant to pay of THEIR borrowings, are hippocrytes. Many of them have parents and grandparents who remember how hard life was in their day, and yet fail to apply common compassion to prospective tenants.

I would advocate that refusing a tenant on the grounds of 'having children' or 'receiving welfare' or 'low income families'

should be added to existing legislation as an act of economic discrimination.

Enough said, cos its getting late and Im tired.
(c) Copyright BLF Consultants. All rights reserved. You may reproduce any part of this at this forum or other site providing you identify BLF Consultants as the author. Email [email protected]
Thank you.

by € less Fri Oct 05, 2007 21:10

Conec
I have read your message good luck to you with exams. It's the same old chesnut Landlords, won't go away. Suggestion for your Title: It's a Builders market & a Landlords World !!!!

by conec - raantidiscrimination Mon Sep 24, 2007 22:38 conecx at gmail dot com

Hi. someone made a comment a while back on indymedia I think it was, that the only reason we were getting pissed off with the rent allowance discrimination problem because we were looking for somewhere to rent at the time. I did spend the summer looking for somewhere to live and I have started college but didnt forget about this problem. It was always in the back of my mind. I’ll be doing a documentary for my course and I’ll be doing it on rent allowance discrimination.
I will need people to tell their stories.
over and out.
email me on
[email protected]

by Jon Fri Aug 31, 2007 14:58

You can lodge a complaint against Daft.ie under the equal status act , with the equality tribunal the contact number is 01 4774100.

by Jim - HSE Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:34

As a social worker for the Health Board I am very aware of the problems created for people with a psychiatric background who are either homeless or at risk of homelessness. Even where rent allowance is accepted by private landlords the private rents being asked are way above the limit of the rent allowance so the unfortunate tenant has to fork out a lot of money to make up the difference. Also if the difference between the maximum rent allowance set and the actual rent charged is deemed too great by the CWO then no rent allowance will be allowed on the tenancy. In Dundalk the maximum rent allowance for a single person is 115 euro per week. I challenge anybody to come up with anywhere decent to live [house or apartment] in the Dundalk area for less than 115 euro per week. Anything less than this is usually substandard or in an area with a lot of antisocial behaviour or both. There is no doubt that people in this country who are genuinely disabled by illness and are on low incomes because they are not able to work are disadvantaged and discriminated against. Landlords are in the business of a making a profit so it is up to the Government to increase rent allowances and out law discrimination with regard to advertisements stating 'no rent allowance'

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sat Aug 11, 2007 01:03

First. I believe if a person is in need of a property to rent, this should be made available. The source of houses has lessened over the decades (which is beyond me) but now rather than having Corporation and Council as Landlords taking care of maintenants, fee maintance, management of affairs - we now have a new system of an A management company (un regulated) assigned to work with a board of 6 directors. All others pay maintenance charges.

These differ signifcantly and they rise up to near 4,400 euros in some of the older apartments in areas like Dublin 4, Dublin 6, Dublin 2.

I know the Land Reform Commission is working out a solution but I would ask anyone involved in these management groups linked Property Management to be vigilant particular in areas that can result in corruption and leave the 6 committee members liabel.

Believe me there are problems but we just don't hear about them.

Hands own to Law Reform and strong legislation is the only route.

One other point I would like to raise about these apartment blocks. There apear to be brothels runing in some of them. They hard to pin point but at an intuititve level you know that there is something happening.

Owners who lend out their apartments ought to be made aware and it should be explained that insurance for the work they engage in, because it is business, is not covered in the insurance.

Several weeks ago in the Sunday Business Post, an excelent artice was written about Ireland's knew internatonal status with prostitution rings.
They said best time of the day in business areas prove from 12-3 pm.

It is time for the law to sort itself out on the matter of prostitution. But likewise, the Law Reform should take a view when establishing maintenance ageements with clients.........

Michelle, one more point I added this in on the Rent Allowance section for a view.......I do not mind a family in a property I let out from Rent Allowance but i surely would be upset to find out it was a brothel......I am sure other landlors are equally concerned........

by Rory Fri Jul 27, 2007 16:32

Link to Ad on Daft

Edenvale Road, Ranelagh,
Dublin 6,
South Dublin City

Studio Apartment To Let - €520 Monthly

Last call for this nice little studio - to move in next week. Viewing to take place on Friday and Saturday.
Self contained room (Studio) with cooking facilities and own bathroom to rent in Ranelagh. Excellent location: In a nice and quiet residential area between Rathmines and Ranelagh. Only 2 min. to Beechwood Luas Stop!
Please drop me a short mail with some information about you and your Tel. number. I will then call to answer further questions and to arrange viewings.
Rent is 130 Euro weekly. Deposit is 580.- and references are required.
Sorry, no self-employeds, no students, no couples and no rent allowances will be accepted by the landlord.

Washing Machine
Dryer

Rent Allowance Not Accepted

by conec Wed Jul 25, 2007 00:18

here here!!!

So who's still up for a meeting??

by Dub Man Sat Jul 21, 2007 16:04

What it boils down to is.

Landlords are breaking equality law and equality policies , they are perpetuating prejudice and bigotry.

This is not fact of life, or just the way it is and shouldnt' be encouraged to be seen as such.

Its kinda like saying to the jews in WW2, Oh, sorry you all got gassed, but ya know its just the way it is.

( bit of an extreme analogy yeah, but you get my point?)

Bring on the Property Crash!!!!

That would knock the snobs off their thrones of prejudice and bigotry! ...

They will be begging for RA tenants when their shoddily built semi on the commuter belt becomes a negative equity and not worth the muck its built on.
We are due for a huge property crash and this will affect many thousands. ( see David McWillimas articles on this and his comparissons with the japanese Housing bubble)

When property prices crumble and the economy hits the skids...
many thousands migt need to apply for rent allowance when they lose their homes and their jobs.
So the irony is those very people who discriminated against RA people will end up on the other side of the coin themselves... Poetic justice indeed for the arrogant, materialistic and soulless nation that we have become..

by JOhn Boy Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:05

Landlords can be like bouncers...if they're not legally allowed to discriminate for a certain reason, they'll make one up. Ultimately it's their prerogative whether or not they allow someone to rent their house.

If the 'No Rent Allowance' thing is deemed illegal, then they'll find a way around it.

It's sh*t but it's a fact of life.

Unfortunately.

by rent Wed Jul 18, 2007 20:58

hellow student
depending what you are studying could you not stay at home and do a fas course in the night. get into a company in the day which is linked to your subject.
Forget about accommodation, it's a Landlord thing, (mr Wall might rent you something reasonable..)

by student Wed Jul 18, 2007 19:20

The point i was making was that I might not be able to do my degree if i dont find accommodation!
Its a joke
What are people supposed to do?

by Hank Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:46

Well if you go to college you have a chance of obtaining a qualification which would mean that you could get a job.

A job which can offer you a higher standard of living and better quality of life. A stake in society as M. Thatcher used to say.

If you don't go then you will have to remain in menial employment, or unemployed, where your rights are trampled on and your well being, physical and mental, is always under threat.

All that because of the fear and prejudice of a group of people who are already privileged. That's nasty man.

by Student with no flat Tue Jul 17, 2007 02:35

Familiar alright .

I am a mature student and I have been offered a place in collge in September, But I doubt if i will be able to take it , as I have been looking for a flat in Dublin for the past 3 months and nearly everywhere says RENT ALLOWANCE NOT ACCEPTED. Its getting worse by the day. And it seems to be the norm now.
Dont know what Im gonna do.

by CDH Fri Jul 13, 2007 21:33

In our quest to find an apt. my husband was making calls to people who didn't state "no R.A." on their ads...he called one and the woman actually asked him what he does for work. He told her [not that it's any of her business] and then immediately called daft.ie.

He called the site and told them they were enabling illegal activity by allowing the landlords to select the "no R.A." option, they spewed their 'reasons' for it and said that most landlords couldn't accept it...baloney! He told them how illegal it was, spending about 25 min. on the phone with them to which, at the end of the call was then told that there was a €2.40 per min. toll charge for the call.

My GOD how do these people end up in P.R.?

Anyway, he e-mailed them laws about how it was discriminating, I don't think he heard back about that yet though...sound familiar?

by Same Wed Jul 11, 2007 20:28

That's so sad. Under both governments which have ben inpower The Rich get richer and the Poor get Poorer.The same as Thatcherites. . Its a builders & developers led maarket and with Nice Treaty a couple of million have arrived in to the country with no housing in place. ..That was the start of our problems Hank upthere seems to be doing something, keep him posted and see what happens. The next referendum make sure you go out and vote no....
Good luck and keep your spirits up for the sake of your child. Something good will come out of it.

by crazybutterfly Wed Jul 11, 2007 17:59

i am a sinlge mother of one who has had the pleasure of renting some pretty nice places on rent allowance whilst i was single...young and very wild with no child...now i have a child it seems that i have to live in a house that is infested with RATS,people leave the back door open so CATS SHIT in the HALLWAY CARPET...the other tenants do not put their rubbish in the bins provided so it is thrown in the back yard for cats,rats,mice...anything that takes its fancy to the disease ridulled area...also i WILL NOT and CAN NOT put my rubbish in the bins PROVIDED because to get to the bins you have to walk on mounds of open rubbish...and now the landlord has sent letters to all tenants stating that if the rusbbish is not put in the bins then it will be taken away,examined and the peoples fined for it.
then there are the neighbours...they act like i do not live underneath them. they shout,argue,bang and wake my son up at 1-3am sometimes.
i pay 790 a month for a tiny 2bed 5mins walk from cork city. which means i have to pay a landlord 50 out of my own money. it was either this apartment or a house with no garden..just like a box in a street. dark,damp,and rotten. oh wait my apartment cant open the bedroom windows cos of that cat that shit in my room once.
and i feel i have the RIGHT to complain in landlords eye's. i was left to struggle after my partner decided he didnt 'want' to support me or my baby together...he choose to have more money paying off his 5 bedroom house and rent on his bedroom he 'chooses' to stay in 'if' he is tired after work instead of driving to his house....im very sure if i was not forced to be a single parent on benefits i would be out making something of myself and rolling in cash and renting any bleeding property i 'choose' to...
pfffffft

by Hank Mon Jul 09, 2007 04:00

It's possible that some are too dumb to fill in the form. I doubt it. I had a look at some daft.ie discussions and its clear that many people view those claiming rent allowance as vermin.

Some of the stuff written was very nasty. So much so that it amounts to hate speech. I am investigating this aspect of it at the moment. It's a separate issue but it's right wing , if you don't work you don't eat stuff. Vicious.

It is a horrible position to be in where you cannot afford to pay the rent and must claim rent allowance. The insecurity and stress would cause one to contemplate suicide as An Teasock and the Prime Minister Mr. Bertie Ahern has suggested we do.

Thus when your are at the bottom of the heap looks like your choices are: die or fight.

by CDH Mon Jul 09, 2007 00:44

Maybe the landlords are just too lazy or afraid to figure out how to fill out the paperwork, so just dismiss people who use RA. I saw on the daft site, a few landlords asking what to do with it.

I know my husband and I are going nuts trying to find a place too...thankfully, his parents are nice enough to let us stay, but still...

by Rory - http://radiscriminaton.wordpress.com/ Mon Jun 25, 2007 19:36

http://radiscriminaton.wordpress.com/

I set up a rent allowance discrimination blog ...

Its a work in progress, any suggestions .comments etc appeciated , also postings/opinions on the blog appreciated too, will be contacting some members of the greens about these issues soon too..

by Hank Mon Jun 25, 2007 02:12

I put a message up there re a meeting.

by conec - sead Sun Jun 24, 2007 18:25

This is the group - go join, add links too.
It's called socio economoic anti discrimination. I know it's a total mouthful but I coudn't think of anything else so its seantidiscrimination for short. Feel free to make suggestions :)

by helper Sun Jun 24, 2007 14:34

Looks like were up and running,lets know the next move. Yahoo details,

by conec Sun Jun 24, 2007 14:11

Yeah, I think it would be a great idea to have a meeting.
socio- economic anti- discrimination.

Feels like we're getting somewhere. :)

I'm going to create a group in yahoo, I'll let ye know what its called etc. Just think we need somewhere online to move things along a bit. Where we can get more organised. Find out where everyone lives so we could find a reasonable place for everyone to have a meeting.

Hank - Its really cool that you offered to organise the meeting.
I wouldn't really know how to go about it but any help you might need I would be willing to do what I can.

Putting an announcement in the local papers is a must do also.

by l.lords Sat Jun 23, 2007 19:21

Fair play to yourself & Dermot. That's awful sad about Mami. Someone has to start somewhere. There are thousands around in the same position. A lot wouldn't have access to computers. Maybe by also issuing a free add in local newspapers under the town notes. Just an Idea
Tenant!!1

by Hank Sat Jun 23, 2007 18:55

I want to suggest that those interested in the subject have a meeting. Anyone want to co- ordinate it? If not I'll do it.

Hank.

by conec Sat Jun 23, 2007 18:09

here is a link to something about discrimination which relates directly to housing.

go to page 10

i was thinking a forum would be good. A place where people who are moving out of their place and their landlord takes rent allowance could leave an email address and say what county they're in and when they're moving out.
Then it could be a lot easier for landlords too since they wouldn't have to advertise (eventually).
The Rent Allowance Forum
fuck daft.
Still trying to think of an organisation that might be willing to help, still looking. So far there's age, sexual orientaton, gender but no organisation out there that seems to look after the discrimination on the grounds of your socio-economic backgroud. Mayne there is, anyone know of any?
Talk soon.

by Dermot Thu Jun 21, 2007 18:20 dermotmusic at yahoo dot ie

Hi,

I've sent an email to a few of you that provided addresses here. I have also provivided my own email addy on this page, but have got no messages yet. I don't know exactly what we can do yet, but we all seem to be intelligent people here, so i am sure that if we apply just a bit of brainpower and energy to this situation, we can come up with a gameplan.

Sincerey,
Dermot Lyons

by mami - none Thu Jun 21, 2007 13:55

hi hank
i agree whole heartley with your coments on rent allowance, i myself am a 27 year old single mother to a beautiful 9 year old boy. i split up with my patner for personal reasons in mid january, and since then have been homeless, my son stays in between my mothers and his dads an i sleep in my car 2 or 3 nights and a friends sofa maybe for the remainder of the week simpley because i cannot find a landlord who will accept the rent allowance from me. im struggling at best to keep it together durning this difficult time. All i want is a place we can call home where my son can play his computer and i can put him to bed at night myself and kiss his cheek goodnight, i am a good person and a good mother so why am i been labled and discrimanted against just because of rent allowance. God bless

by Hank Wed Jun 20, 2007 22:50

Sorry MM I'm just your average Joe, don't know nothing about the law except it's appears to be a strange thing. No doubt about it. Ain't been in a galetuck for some time. Tend to stay away from them. Scares me they does. Perhaps the mother tongue has a special status in European law.

Still it may not be ethical to keep it alive by artificial means. It never did give its consent.

by MM Wed Jun 20, 2007 22:00

Hank
You seem to be some legal person. Another one is E. OCieves area in Galway & planning permission. It seems one has to speak Irish to build there. Sure this is also illegal if we are in EU. I'd be intereted to know > Would you bekind enough to get backto me
thanks

by Hank Wed Jun 20, 2007 14:51

I sent the text of an advertisement in Daft to the equality authority. I suggested that the add had the intention to discriminate as follows:

"Rent Allowance Not Accepted

In so far as I can see there are two intentions to discriminate here.

1. Asking for a current work reference indicates an intent to discriminate against disabled people who cannot work.

2. Rent allowance not accepted indicates an intention to discriminate against disabled people who cannot work.

Is this indirect discrimination according to the legislation?"

The authority said that their legal team was looking at this and that they would be in touch with me soon. I'll let ye know what the story is. I would not be hopeful. It still remains for a case to be taken in court as I have outlined in previous posts.

by rory Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:48

Ok People...

Under Discrimination law in Ireland :

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/emire/IRELAND/DISCRIMINA....html

"Discrimination may be defined as the differential treatment of individuals or groups based on arbitrary or ascriptive criteria such as gender, race, religion, age, marital or parental status, disability, sexual orientation, political opinions, socio-economic background, trade union membership and activities, and so on. The existence or otherwise of deliberate intent to discriminate is immaterial; it is the effect of the action which matters"

So basically Landlords who perpetrate a policy of "No Rent Allowance Accepted" are breaking Irish law , european law and possibly International law ...

Not accepting those in receipt of (or those eligable for) rent allowance in Ireland is discrimination against an entire subgroup of society , this subgroup encompasses those with disabilites ,carers, one parent familes, the unemployed, students and those whom recieve state pensions....
Not only does this subgroup include the socio-ecenomic discriminatroy factors mentioned above but it also further marginalises an already vulberable and marginalised sub group ...

This is discrimination of the highest order !!!

It reminds me of the infamous policy in England at one time " No Dogs, No Irish, No blacks" ...

It is an absoulte disgrace that this policy of rent allowance exists in a 21st century western european democracy ....

Who's gonna join me here? Lets start making some noise!!!!!

by citizens Mon Jun 18, 2007 21:37

Hi there
Try the citizens advise bureaqu. They will have all the info.

by Rory Mon Jun 18, 2007 20:53

Does anyone know what the max rent allowance is for a single person in the Dublin area?

Is there any weblink to find out about rent allowance?

I checked the Social Welfare site and its confusing ...?!?....

by Rory Mon Jun 18, 2007 20:39

I would definatly be up for doing something about this, I dont know what exactly but yeah something needs to be done...

The housing/rental situation is an absolute disgrace In this country...

by Dermot Mon Jun 18, 2007 18:53 dermotmusic at yahoo dot ie the gulag...still

Dudes, i really think we should try to contact some organisation about all of this.
The sad thing is that when i talk to most people (i mean friends, acquaintances etc.) they either don't realise or notice what i am talking about in relation to the living conditions in Ireland, or they just shrug and say that they don't need any more problems and stay quiet, or just accept it.

The irish ly down like dogs and wait for the (nowadays Irish!!)-Landlords to fuck them in the ass.

Pathetic.

-Dermot

by Hank Sun Jun 17, 2007 22:59

I wonder if he is suggesting that one excretes all over his lovely bedsit?

by Rory Sun Jun 17, 2007 17:06

Check out this bedist on Daft : 495 month

This studio is small infact it is probably possible to perform all bodily functions from the bed.So if you are looking for a studio in a new apt bklock this is not for you.

Can u fucking believe that a landlord would actually make the above statement and have the nerve to expect someone to rent this property! Its an absolute disgrace!!!!!!

Contact Details:
Email: Reply to this ad by email
Phone: 0035387 2563032
Contact Name: jim

If anyone fancies contacting Jim about his statement ...

Property Details Back to Search Results New Search
The Colonnade, Milltown,
Dublin 6,
South Dublin City
Studio Apartment To Let - €495 Monthly
Printable Page Location Map
Reply to this ad Email this page to a friend Add to Saved Ads

Available to Move In: Wednesday, 27 June

Petite bed-sit available in period house in Milltown.The bedsit is totally selfcontained with two bunk beds ensuite shower/wc kitchen.There is use of a washing machine (free) central heating included in the price .The kitchen has everything.Would suit two people (not a couple)or a single person.15 minutes from UCD 7 minutes from Milltown Luas stop.On bus routes 44/48A/11/62/14.This studio is small infact it is probably possible to perform all bodily functions from the bed.So if you are looking for a studio in a new apt bklock this is not for you.

So People this is the kind of treatment we are to expect from landlords who expect you to shit and eat from your bed in their crummy bedsit which probably doesn't even take rent allowance!!!!

Greedy Celtic Tiger Ireland Makes Me Want To PUKE....

by Dermot Fri Jun 15, 2007 02:34 dermotmusic at yahoo dot ie 2 Shamrock Place, College Rd., Cork (aka the Gulag)

Just another few points/opinions i'd like to add to my comment:

Irish people travel all over the world now. It is a multicultural world now. Irish politicians, architects, etc. all travel. Can't they see what works in other countries and apply it here? Cos we obviously don't have the practicality or inginuity to do it ourselves! Take a look at how things work in Germany, Norway, hell, even Polish houses are better than ours!!

It's 2007, we need to join the rest of the developed world, if we are to continue to claim to be a part of it.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel with these things in Ireland (witness the flat high-rise disasters in Dublin). These things work in other countries, families can live comfortably in city centre large apartments with working facilities, for example in Germany. We just fuck it up as we boast about our 'advanced' economy, and try to create our own, impotent solutions.

Also, it is so lame to think that a lot professionals here SHARE their rented accomodation oftentimes with other professionals. They are forced because of the marketplace to do so, though their salary would be good. They must share a house in the suburbs with other strangers.

I value my privacy. We are living in communes here. It is the bloody middle ages in Ireland, a land of savages.

-Dermot

by Dermot Fri Jun 15, 2007 01:50 dermotmusic at yahoo dot ie 2 Shamrock Place, College Road, Cork.

This country is shit. The good things going for it are: it treats students better than in other Western countries, and we speak English here. That's about it. Oh, and there are lots of nice shops here (in Cork).

My landlord is kicking me out today for writing him a letter yesterday that complains about his 'renovation' of some rooms in the house. The rooms in question will be replastered. They are tiny attic rooms, not fit for hobbits.

His reaction to my suggestion that the money would be better spent on making 3 attic rooms into 2 more spacious rooms? To ask me to leave. I have rented there for the past 2 years, pay rent on time, am a good tenant. It is absurd. Irish landlords are unreasonable, greedy children with no sense of reality.

He lives downstairs. He expects 5 adults to live in tiny, cramped accomodation.

I lived in Finland for 2 years. They know how to build apartments there. Heated, no enourmous water or esb bills. Hot water all the time. Heat all the time in winter. Things that work. Good showers. Rent based on the per square metre size of apartment.

The irish argument of 'sure that's cos they have cold winters' is bullshit. We have cold winters too, but our houses here are weak, inefficient, and STILL not suitable for OUR climate, which is a horrendously damp one, (not a simple dry cold like in northern climates).

So, i was on Daft.ie today...to begin the futile search for a bedsit or room that RA would be accepted in. I am a mature student and begin my final year in October.

I am sick of this shit. The bad housing in Ireland. The ridiculous rent. In Finland, in Tampere (same size as Cork) i rented my OWN apartment (= own bathroom, kitchen, living room...) in the city centre for 400€ per month. Finland has the 2nd most healthy economy in the EU after us...in fact it fluctuates between Ireland and Finland for who is on top at times.

BUT: Why does Finland have a good standard of living, and Irish people are forced to live like rats in damp houses, with inefficient heating, no matter how big, new, old, or good looking the house is?

Irish houses are shit.
Irish rents are ridiculous.
Irish landlords are criminals. Who all play golf. And don't give a shit. And wear bad sweaters.

I want to protest against this. If we all take the typical Irish 'sure what can ya do' attitude, nothing will ever change, and we will be in the same position in 100 years time, whilst the Scandanavians and Finns have created a kind of rental utopia (where, incidently, it is of no consequence or shameful to be renting no matter what life situation you are in. Apartments work there. Renting is a fact of life and totally normal, whilst every irish person seems to 'need' their own house, 2 cars..etc. At this rate, we will have no countryside left!).

Rent Control? I am all for it.
We need strict laws. If damp was in a house in Finland, they rip it down!

We need that kind of discipline here.

Can we join forces people? I wanna get out of this shithole country. But until i do, i wanna make some kind of impact and make my opinion felt, and not be kicked out of my own (shitty) apartment for doing so, as i am being made to do today.

my email: [email protected] (just title it Rent Debate, or something).

Let's do something. I am totally serious.

Sincerely,
Dermot Lyons

by Rory Thu Jun 14, 2007 17:45

Well, the way i see it is, things will never change if people don't at least speak out against things like the rent allowance discrimination...
You see, thats the problem with us Irish, we just accept things that are the way they are , we are the most complacent nation on the face of the fucking planet.
Would the French accept this kind of bollox ?, discrimination and extortion, I don't think so...

The celtic tiger has shitted all over anything that was of real value in this country..
Houses are now made with shit materials, but sold at extortionate prices ..
An entire generation has been fucked over, but of course , being Irish we just accept this ..
I really hope the economy crashes as maybe us Irish need a kick in the arse again , and a wake up call to what's important...
The Irish Economy is an illusion ...
Bertie and the rest of them represent the 35 to 65 years old age bracket of middle to upper class people who have all done well out of the celtic tiger.... but there is a huge number of people who have not done well... Most of my generation (25 to 30) are in a spiral of debt, are stressed out to fuck and on the verge of having meltdowns. Their is a socio-economic disaster about to happen...mark my words...

by conec Sat Jun 09, 2007 05:40

bejaysus

why dont you stop telling everyone what to think and what to do and get up off YOUR OWN arse and take your own advice?

Sort out this country,

you have all the answers.

by conec Sat Jun 09, 2007 05:31

hey bejayses

Its not about getting landlords or daft to not put 'no RA'. You've completely missed the point. What everyone has a problem with is being refused a place because of needing RA. There is a difference. Its not just about some stupid ad.
This affects me personally. Does it affect you personally? Have you ever been unable to find somewhere to live because you need RA?

And what you say about rent control is totally true, we should have it. At the moment it is more feasible to bring to the attention of the people who make the descisions, this issue of discrimination. Totally different issue to rent control. So do something about it if you feel so strongly.

Why would you have such a problem with people who just want this discrimination to be taken noticed of?
Instead of telling everyone that they are wrong to pick this issue when there is a so much more worth while case of rent control, (and both are worthwhile) just let us at it. Why would it bother you so much anyway.
Seems to me your just having your own personal rant and have no intentions of doing anything about rent control in Ireland. Would that be the case?
Let us know what your plan is and what your gonna do about getting rent control in Ireland and then leave us off. We can do our bit and you can do your bit and we'll all be happy right?
Right!

by Jaysus Fri Jun 08, 2007 18:55

Lets all go off and march for something that won't make a blind bit of difference to anything anyway - screw doing something that might have some actual positive effect. We'll all feel cuddly wuddly afterwards as we sit round a pint and tell each other that we really made a difference because they can't put 'No R.A.' in an ad. tThe fact they still don't have to give you the flat is immaterial.

Screw rent control, who nees it, eh? It'd be to hard to get them to do it anyway, lets take the easy road.

Gesture politics at its finest. And people say the Left is ineffectual, pfft . . . we'll show 'em!

And Rory - why don't you start by not paying your rent for a while - let us know how that goes for you, will you?

by Rory Byrne - None Fri Jun 08, 2007 13:51

Yeah i think that this country is going down the tolilet quicker than a fart in the wind ....
Cant wait till the economy crashes and those who have bought into this celtic tiger illusion of materilaistic bullshit have to sell their plasma screens to buy a can of beans....
Bring on the Revolution...
Lets all refuse to pay for anything , this country needs an uprising , for far too long the greedy property owners have been fucking everyone around...
Anyone planning a march, count me in....

I think that we should be able to just take land back anywhere in this country , like the south africans and the american indians. Im sure there must be a loop hole in the law, which would enable anyone who was born here and has ancestors here to rightfully claim their heritage and land back. Things havent changed since the formation of the "free" State. The Irish are screwing the Irish now ,,,,!

Lets change this ! ...

by Jaysus Thu Jun 07, 2007 15:26

Caz said: Me and my partner have been on the housing list in dublin for near 4 years now and have lived in a shitty bedsit paying 750 a month, our rent has never been late or left short so our landlord doesnt bother us but it doesnt stop him putten the rent up and maken no changes to our situation,

hence the overwhelming need for RENT CONTROL wouldn't you think?

Personally I'd say getting rent control established as a point in law is far more pressing and will benefit far more people that wasting effort in stopping LandLords from putting 'no R A' in 'To Let' ads. they can always descriminate anyway - so what's the point in wasting your time and effort doing that?

Is pointless and time wasting gesture politics going to be more useful in the long run? Or wouldn't you be better off aiming for something that would benefit the whole country? I know which I'll choose in the end.

by conec Thu Jun 07, 2007 01:28

This is a problem.
It cant be ignored.
We are going to organise and make a lot of noise and everyone who has been reading this thread will find out how we are doing when reading this.
Yeah the lawyer advice is a good start.
Hey people at Indymedia.... can ye guide us in the right direction with a nice lawyer we could contact or even contacts??

by Caz Mon Jun 04, 2007 13:49 cazh at hotmail dot com

iv just been reading all the posts about RA and i agree with it all, me and my partner have been on the housing list in dublin for near 4 years now and have lived in a shitty bedsit paying 750 a month, our rent has never been late or left short so our landlord doesnt bother us but it doesnt stop him putten the rent up and maken no changes to our situation, so we have decided to get out of dublin leave friends and family behind becasue livin in a bedsit is not easy. we found loads of houses on daft that accept rent allowance and are quiet cheap but after reading the posts its dishearthen me alot seen that rent allowance is different in all counties, i would like to be involved in tryin to change the whole situation of the crappy houseing and the RA because it really makes you feel like the lowest of the low when you go to look for somewhere else to live, my biggest arguement is that i want to be a foster parent and in dublin i know you wont get a house till you have kids so the whole fostering thing wont happen as long as we stay in dublin in a bedsit. let me know if you's are gonna do anything like a march or something.

by Hank Mon Jun 04, 2007 13:40

"So instead bitching about Rent Allowance - which is not something granted to you by Right by the way.."

If the landlord does not accept it then your right is denied.

The point is that small steps are important.

"Maybe it's about time we gave our politicians a kick in the arse.."

Our politicians have been given a pat on the back. The left has been defeated in Ireland at this point. The right is victorious, complacent and smug.

Still grassroots action is always possible. It's a dubious battle no doubt but there is no choice.

Ending this discrimination would be a small step but the impact would be significant. Preventing the printing of "rent allowance not accepted" would raise the awareness of the people who are renting.
Both parties, the landlord and his victim, would face the embarrassment of directly discriminating and been discriminated against face to face. No avoiding the issue by virtue of a convenient line at the end of an advertisement.

In so far as I understand the equality legislation a person who is disabled or otherwise fits into one of the nine categories and who has been refused rent allowance might be able to bring a case on the grounds of indirect discrimination. Anyone want to try? We need legal advice. Anyone got access to a solicitor?

The advertising aspect referred to by Lisa is also a possibility. I will write to the Equality Authority with a sample advertisement and ask their opinion.

by Jim O'Sullivan Mon Jun 04, 2007 09:48

"This country is a joke...And the government , property owners and developers have shafted an entire generation....."

Very true. However would you care to speculate as to why we just voted the way we did? We are about to have all the usual friends of the speculators back driving mercs, giving away our resources, privatising anything that moves so that the rip-off merchants can further stuff their pockets (What do they do with all that money anyway?) and that includes the provision of health services. Every need must be exploited.

And off course there is one rule for them and another for us. For example, while the nurses could not be given a 10% rise as it would break the "national agreement", members of the golden circle achieved the following rises last year.

Liam O'Mahoney, CEO of Cement Roadstones...38%
Tony O'Reilly, CEO of Independent News...24%

And not to be outdone the two leading Banks paid their CEO's last year as follows,
Eugene Sheehy CEO of A.I.B. received a salary of 2.436 million, yes million, euro
Brian Goggin, CEO of Bank of Ireland received a salary of 2.8 million euro
(Source, I.T. Top 1000 Companies)

Hibernation is all I can suggest at this juncture for surely what is about to happen next will be beyond endurance. Harney back at Health? The nightmare is set to continue.

by Jaysus Mon Jun 04, 2007 01:02

Sorry Lisa, but your search for 2 bed furnished properties to let where landlord accepts rent allowance for less than €900 per month available from June 15, 2007 in Dublin City Centre, South Dublin City, South Co. Dublin, Dublin 2, Dublin 4, Dublin 6, Dublin 6w, Dublin 8, Dublin 10, Dublin 12, Dublin 14, Dublin 16, Dublin 18, Dublin 20, Dublin 22 or Dublin 24 having 2 single beds with Central Heating, Washing Machine yielded no results.

what planet are you living on?? There are (almost?) NO flats with two bedrooms in the Whole of Dublin for less than 900 a month irrespective of acceptance of rent allowance

What this sad excuse for a country needs is Rent Control, not more rent allowance. Harney is famous for saying "We're closer to Boston than Berlin." Well, I have news for ya Harney, both Boston AND Berlin have Rent Control, as do many of the cities on the NE coast of the US, because they realised many years ago that unscrupulous landlords of the type that make up your, and Finnia Fail's core support, create massive social problems unless their avarice is curtailed through legislation.

One of the main factors driving the rampant inflation in this sad-sack country is the rising cost of employing workers i.e. paying them a living wage.

THE main contributing factor to the rising cost of employing workers is their massive outlay for a place in which to live, be it in the form of rent or a mortgage (ORIGIN late Middle English : from Old French, literally ‘dead pledge,’ from mort (from Latin mortuus ‘dead’ ) + gage ‘pledge.’)

THE main contributing factor to the rising costs of rents or mortgages is the rampant speculation in the property market. Another is the gov'ts refusal to maintain/build a decent stock of low-cost housing

THE main contributing factor to the gov'ts refusal to maintain/build a decent stock of low-cost housing is the massive contributuion they recieve from the property developers/ Builders

One of the main contributing factors to the rampant speculation in the property market is the easy money to be made getting a second mortgage and buying a house in order to rent it out for top-dollar (or more correctly, Euro) to those that can't afford a mortgage (immigrants, the low-paid etc)

THE main reason the low-paid can't afford a Mortgage IS: the rampant speculation in the property market.

Rent control would go a long way to breaking this vicious cycle.

So instead bitching about Rent Allowance - which is not something granted to you by Right by the way, merely an expedient way to massage the figures related to Social Welfare expenditure by hiding it in the Health Budget - maybe you should be concentrating on breaking the above cycle promoted by elected 'leaders'

The 'perfidious Albions' even realised this about a hundred years ago which is why they incorporated Rent control into one of their most successful Land Acts. Unfortunately, as far as I know, this applied only to land and not urban dwellings. Maybe it's about time we gave our politicians a kick in the arse and forced them to do something about the housing crisis here in Ireland.

Did you know that in the most expensive city in German one can rent an Apartment for almost HALF the price one can rent the equivalent apartment here? Of course the Germans have rent control, as do the Bostons, and the New Yorkers.

But we here are far too clever for that sort of mularkey, aren't we Mary, ya cunt

by Rory byrne - none Sat Jun 02, 2007 21:47 redkingrory at gmail dot com

It is an absolute disgrace and I am sure that landlords not accepting rent allowance most definately fits under the criteria of disrimination. Maybe people should start to sue landlords who don't accept rent allowance, because that in itself is discriminating against an entire sub group of society. Its worse than rascim because it is discriminating against those who are either unemployed, a student, disabled or a lone parent on welfare... and landlords should not be allowed to advertise that they don't accept it and it should be illegal for them not to accept it without just cause and reason...

Someone should start a campaign...
And if people began to sue under discrimination law or european discrimination laws then maybe things would change...

that said, this new daft rent allowance section is exactly that .... Its daft and its diabolical...

theres nothing there when you do a search...

This country is a joke...

And the government , property owners and developers have shafted an entire generation.....

by conec Tue May 29, 2007 00:33

found this in the pdf of the equal status act guide. I think this might apply to the rent allowance. Its under advertising.

A person shall not publish or display, or cause to be
published or displayed, an advertisement which indicates an
intention to discriminate, harass, sexually harass, or might
reasonably be understood as indicating such an intention.

by conec Wed May 23, 2007 15:08

I have just done the advanced search on Daft.

Guess what, they have nowhere at all, surprise surprise!

have a look

Sorry Lisa, but your search for 2 bed furnished properties to let where landlord accepts rent allowance for less than €900 per month available from June 15, 2007 in Dublin City Centre, South Dublin City, South Co. Dublin, Dublin 2, Dublin 4, Dublin 6, Dublin 6w, Dublin 8, Dublin 10, Dublin 12, Dublin 14, Dublin 16, Dublin 18, Dublin 20, Dublin 22 or Dublin 24 having 2 single beds with Central Heating, Washing Machine yielded no results.

by conec Wed May 23, 2007 15:02 lisadaltonx at yahoo dot co dot uk

I have written an email to every TD I could email in Cork.
I got a few responses.
One TD kindly forwarded my questions to Seamus Brennan. Minister for Social and Family Affairs.
I got a lame ass response from his deputy, I presume. It was a document from questions in the Dail in Nov 06. Where the question of discrimination was raised.
I will leave it here for everyone to read it, including the dail transcript at the end of the posting.
Please people we need to do something.

Hello Seamus
My name is Lisa ****. I have been in contact here in Cork lately with my local TDs as regards to the Rent Allowance scheme. I wanted to know why it was allowed for landlords to not accept rent allowance.
I was forwarded an attachment from David Stanton.
It is from a recent discussion in the Dail in November 2006 where you answered a question about landlords not accepting rent allowance. Available for you to see at the end of this letter if you need to read it again.

I would like to refer you to some of the comments you made at that time.
Especially on some points I would like you to clarify and to update.
I will quote these comments and ask for a particular response.

comment no. 1
"As such it is not possible to identify if refusal by landlords to accept rent supplement tenants is causing difficulties for those trying to find accommodation."

I would refer you to the discussions board on www.daft.ie under the heading of renting questions.

It is causing terrible difficulties for people looking for RA. There are numerous people all around the country who are unable to find somewhere to live. They cant even meet the prospective landlord because they have specified RENT ALLOWANCE NOT ACCEPTED. You say it is not possible to identify if the refusals are causing difficulties. THEY ARE. It is as plain as day.

I would like to know what would be an acceptable way to you, of identifying these difficulties.

comment no. 2
"I am concerned that landlords would refuse a tenancy purely because someone is on a social welfare payment. And I have asked my Department to investigate the extent of this practice and to examine if it constitutes possible discrimination."

It is obvious to me that you have not been in such a precarious position or you would know immediatley that it is discrimination.
Have you spoken to a person in this situation?
Has the department commenced this investigation into refusal of rent allowance by landlords as discrimination?
If so when did it commence and when is it expected to report on the matter to the Dail?

comment no. 3
"Also the fact that almost 35,000 new rent supplement claims were awarded between January 2006 and October 2006 appears to indicate that overall access to accommodation is not proving restrictive for those in need of assistance under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme."

Overall access to accomodation for people requiring assistance in the form of RA is extremely restrictive. I am genuinely shocked that you would think other wise. Figures dont ever tell the whole story. Of these 35,000 new rent supplement claims, can you tell me of how many of these new claims were from tenants of NEW landlords willing to take on RA reciepients?
In my experience, all the landlords that accept RA, have been doing so for years. The number of new landlords willing to accept RA needs to be assesed. These figures are useless unless this is considered.
Also, have you taken into account, with your previously stated figures, the rise in the population of Ireland?

This matter of discrimination of the poor of Ireland is only going to get worse unless you do something about it now.

Lisa

Written Question No: 176 & 174, Ref No:35989/06, 35967/06
Thursday, 2nd November, 2006.
* To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his plans to address the use of the phrase rent allowance not accepted in accommodation advertisements; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
- Ciarán Cuffe.

* To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his plans to address the use of the
phrase rent allowance not accepted in accommodation advertisements; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
- Ciaran Cuffe

R E P L Y
Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Séamus Brennan):
I propose to answer Question Nos __ & __ together.
The supplementary welfare allowance scheme, which includes rent supplement, is administered on my behalf by the Community Welfare division of the Health Service Executive. The purpose of the scheme is to provide short-term income support, in the form of a weekly or monthly payment, to eligible people living in private rented accommodation whose means are insufficient to meet their accommodation costs and who do not have accommodation available to them from any other source.

Under the rent supplement scheme there is no direct relationship between the State
and the landlord. Entitlement is based on the tenant’s income support needs with payment generally made directly to the tenant. The tenant’s engagement with the Executive usually takes place after the tenant has reached an agreement with the landlord. As such it is not possible to identify if refusal by landlords to accept rent supplement tenants is causing difficulties for those trying to find accommodation.

It is the case however, that significant numbers of new tenancies commence each year with the support of rent supplement. For example, just under 35,000 new cases have been awarded so far this year.

I am aware that some landlords are advertising their property on the internet or in the newspapers and state that they are unwilling to accept rent supplement recipients as tenants.

I am concerned that landlords would refuse a tenancy purely because someone is on a social welfare payment. And I have asked my Department to investigate the extent of this practice and to examine if it constitutes possible discrimination. The fact that there are currently over 60,000 rent supplement recipients, an increase of around 15,000 recipients since 2001, does indicate that there are significant numbers of landlords who are willing to accept people in receipt of rent supplement as tenants. Also the fact that almost 35,000 new rent supplement claims were awarded between January 2006 and October 2006 appears to indicate that overall access to accommodation is not proving restrictive for those in need of assistance under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme.

by Daft Tue May 22, 2007 20:20

that's pure DAFT......................

by Hank Tue May 22, 2007 13:06

I received a reply from Daft.ie. They say they allowed “rent allowance not accepted” after requests from people seeking accommodation who were in receipt of rent allowance and did not want to waste time ringing around.

Daft have also added a “are you looking for places that accept rent allowance?” tag on their advanced search form.

The issue remains that it's still enabling discrimination to do this. It's still the same as “are you looking for a place that accepts only white people”. Don't matter how nice you are about it.

Keep writing to them and your TD”s. It is ironic that an Irish business is willing and able to enable this discrimination when even the hint of discrimination against other groups would be met with howls of protest.

Hank.

by Daft Fri May 11, 2007 14:12

lisa
who are the shareholders of daft i hear the politicans always saying on tv thats daft when asked about somthing

by conec Fri May 11, 2007 13:00

I have moved along with this rent allowance issue. I have written to , TV3, RTE, The Independent newspaper letters column and The Evening Echo in Cork. This is the letter I sent. If everyone else sent something too, maybe they cant ignore us any more. Please try.

Hi, My name is Lisa.I am from Cork . I have been looking for a place to live in Dublin . I will be studying there as a mature student in September. I am having a terrible time trying to find a place that accepts rent allowance since I will be entitled to it along with Back to Education Allowance.

This is a problem for a lot of people in Ireland at the moment. People who get rent allowance are seen as undesirable tenants. A lot of disabled people cant find a place either because of this, also single mothers. Basically people that need help from the government in the form of rent allowance are being discriminated against.
Along with the elections coming up, I think this would be a good topic to discuss, since it is largely being ignored and it is a big problem today. Why is it allowed to go on?
I would ask ye to please consider delving deeper into this issue and to please report on it. It IS discrimination!

Here is an email I have sent to daft.ie

HI, My name is Lisa. I am a mature student, aged 28 and will be attending college in September. I am looking for an apartment in Dublin with my friend who is also a mature student at the age of 30. As a mature student, I am entitled to receive Back to Education Allowance. Therefore I am entitled to receive Rent Allowance. I have noticed, as has everyone else in my position that Daft.ie allows their clients to write 'rent allowance not accepted' at the end of the posting. I have also noticed that this is mostly only written a the end of postings that just seem to fit the threshold of what is affordable for people on rent allowance, ie 1100euros. This is entirely unacceptable. It is also blatant discrimination. Would ye allow someone to write 'no single mothers'?
I know that ye are not the perpertrators of this trend but ye are doing nothing to stop this or to let landlords know that they can't do this anymore. I would ask ye to reply to this email and let me know where ye stand at Daft.ie on this matter and also on what ye intend to do. There is a group of us who have decided to not give up on this matter.

Yours sincerely
Lisa

by tiger, tiger burning bright - the green party Fri May 04, 2007 22:00

maybe we should have a protest outside dail eirinn [email protected]

by conec Mon Apr 02, 2007 01:22

Hi. Landlords and agencies thinking they can discriminate against poor people are totally right. They can and do.
it drives me crazy and makes me feel very depressed because I do feel discriminated against.

I live in Cork. I was really stuck looking for a place that accepts rent allowance. I walked into an agency after a long day on the phone asking over and over again - do you accept RA? WHen I heard no i just hang up these days, why should I give these discriminators any more of my precious phone credit :). I asked the agency if they had any landlord clients that accept rent allowance, he snottely said no we dont have any properties that accept rent allowance!!! I was in tears and told him that I was a student and how it was really unfair that they should ban all rent allowance whether it was the landlord or not. he looked at me like I was a fool.
Whats that all about? A whole agency! That is pure and utter discrimination. I think landlords should not have a right to decide whether they accept it or not. Its a total disgrace. I'll be moving to Dublin in June. I am a student, . I will be getting back to education allowance in september when I go to college in Dublin. I'm not feeling very optimistic. I have to start looking now!!!

What I've been doing is writing down all the names of the agents whos properties accept RA and I'll keep them so I can ring them another time. Thats all I can do.

DAFT.IE IS A DISCRIMINATION ENABLER

Why isnt there a website (a government one even) where people who need rent allowance can look and not be made feel like a lower class of person.
I have wanted to do something about this for a long time. It should be brought to peoples attention more and people should understand that it is DISCRIMINATION plain as day.

I will be emailing the person on this thread who said to contact them if they wanted to do something about this situation which is getting worse. The more people the better. lets see what we can do.
Lisa, Cork

by Pregnant "young adult" with working partner Fri Mar 30, 2007 00:19

ok well i am currently pregnant and due in 15 weeks i am staying with my mam and dad and myself and my partner are frustrated at the fact that rent allowence is not accepted in most rentals....
what am i to do....i have sppent all night online looking for somewhere in limerick that accepts rent allowence,the government should be doing more for people who really need it....its a disgrace that i who comes from a very "high standard" family cant even get a place to stay to look after my partner and child....
what am i ment to do....i dont even get bloody welfare benefits there reason was that i am a student dont have enough "stamps" and have to WORK to get them and my parents are home owners,they cant even afford me my dad is unemployed 60 year old and my mam and dad are on the DOLL!!!!!

by Corky Thu Mar 29, 2007 14:26 leokea at gmail dot com

The bottom line is this abuse by non tax compliant landlords will continue while we allow it to continue.
If you would like to form an organisation to change this situation, email me at [email protected], together acting as one, we can effect the appropriate changes quickly.

by Rent allowancer Thu Mar 29, 2007 02:09

Does anyone know if it is illegal for a landlord to advertise for tenants and say they wouldn't take rent allowance? Most ads for houses and flats say no RA. It should be illegal and it should be illegal for them to refuse to allow you to rent a place because you have rent allowance. Although it would be hard to prove that this was the reason why they didn't let you rent from them.

I have got RA over many years and my landlords have mostly been decent and they have all said to me that I was better at paying my rent than tenants they had who didn't get RA. I think that is because when you are on benefits and get RA you tend to keep up with things like your rent because you know if you get into arrears it is impossible to get out of the mess because we can't borrow from banks etc to pay debts. Its a pity landlords don't realise that.

For the woman with the child. I feel sorry for you. A lot of landlords are bastards. I am surprised at your Community Welfare officer for cutting you off because you lied about your rent. The CWOs must know that everyone lies. It is not possible to get a place to live on the limits they set. I had a CWO who told me to lie on the forms so that my claim would be accepted.

I would contact your CWO and ask about their appeals procedures. I would also contact a local TD. There is an election coming up, visit them at their weekly clinic and tell them your story sometimes this can actually help speed things up. It may also be worth contacting one of the lone parents groups for advice and support or even your local ICTU unemployed centre. Try everything to put pressure on your CWO. Good luck.

by Darragh Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:04

If you find that you'll have nowhere to live, you may have to consider registering as homeless with your local authority, and you will be provided with emergency accommodation, suitable to your situation - a hostel for mothers and children for example.

Try this link for more information: http://www.focusireland.ie/htm/nonsectional/are_you_hml...s.htm as it will probably provide more concrete information than what I can give you.

by Anon Wed Mar 21, 2007 01:54

I am a single mother with a 2 year old boy. I have been receiving rent allowance for 1.5 years now. I had to leave my last apartment as it was being sold. I'll try keep this short. basically, I was struggling to find somewhere to move to. Try searching on daft.ie for an apt under 950 where they accept rent allowance. It is impossible, and if you do find one its a slum. It is no way to rear a child. I would be happy to struggle and pay a little more but why do they have to set it as a max 950?

I really was struggling and had nowhere to go as the clock ticked to move out day. So...I did what I had to for my son. I lied on the form, signed the landlords name etc and said the rent was 950 (although its 1200). Ok...I now know that alot of people do this...anyway...The hse called and found out it was a lie, and now i havent paid my rent for two months as ive been waiting for a response that long. Im being asked to leave and have nowhere to live, and can't pay the rent back....

Can anyone help....I really don't know what to do...

by Danii Tue Mar 13, 2007 21:46

This website, though it's supposed to be a filter for accomodation that accepts rent allowence, currently only has one house with two bedrooms under €1000 per month. This house is in Kilcock Co.Kildare where the rent allowence is considerably lower than Dublin. The average for a two bedroom house in Dublin on this website is €1300.

Im sure you all know that rent allowence for one parent families is set at a limit of €953pm in Dublin. So if you find accomodation for €955pm, you are not allowed to rent it.

I'm currently on a lone parents payment after my ex became extremely violent during my pregnancy. After escaping a "life" with him and giving birth to my daughter I had to move in with my parents again because I could not find any accomodation at €953 pm in Dublin for my family. I considered moving far from my friends and family to accomodate the high rental prices in Dublin. I soon found out that everywhere else in Ireland has lower rent allowences, so I couldnt rent there either for the prices landlords were looking for.

If I were to get a bedsit I would possibly be able to find a run down one in Dublin within this €953 allowence, but its unfair to a child to have to share a bed with their parent growing up(considering bedsits hardly have room for even one bed).

Every year rent goes up and rent allowence doesnt. While I dont think that the answer is to higher the allowence, an idea would be that every landlord with over a certain number of rental accomodation should reserve a certain ratio of accomodation for people on rent allowence or on a housing list, for example a ratio of 1:10. The rent should also be required to be eased based on the size of accomodation.

A bedsit costs about €160pw on average, suiting the needs of a single person, so landlords with more than 10 bedsits should keep one for someone on social wefare and keep rent to the maximum rent allowence for a single person which I think is set at €140pw, even if s/he could rent it privatly for €160pw.

A two bedroom flat for a one parent family should be set at the maximum rent allowence of €953pm.

If this was brought in with this ratio, or a higher one, it wouldnt be a huge loss of landlords already extortionate profits. Lets face it, they make enough money to be able to afford a bit less a week. This would also ease the housing list crisis and stop families with multipal children living in one bedroom. It would also help stop people from having to lie on rent allowence forms saying the accomodation costs one amount when it costs more, and therefore putting them deeper in poverty.

by anon Tue Nov 21, 2006 04:02

http://threshold.daft.ie/

Threshold housing group have arranged a filter for those that except rent allowance. Although I agree with your main point

by Keith Harris - Newsmedianews Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:32 UK +44 7716 737522

Just a related link. I am unable to put the actual URL http://www.newsmedianews.com/no-dss.php as the site is down for maintenance for 24 hours

But you can access the page meanwhile through the link below, although the comments and vote panels may not work correctly until the main site is up and running again.

Cheers!

by gerri Tue Nov 21, 2006 02:44

I know this is off the point (again) but I really think that those private landlords who own vast portfolio's and who have made colossal sums through rent allowance - something should have been done about that ages ago. The state should have bought the properties from them or else it should have been made very unattractive tax-wise to own them.

Instead, we had situations where one individual or family owned many Georgian houses in Dublin split into many units, most being paid for by rent allowance, the rents going up year by year and the standard down.

If these same parasites are now saying no to rent allowance this must be because there is such demand for accommodation that they don't need to accept it, less chance of getting caught for tax maybe or perhaps they worry that their carpet would get worn out to quickly if their tennants were there all day. It would be extremely gratifying for somebody to take a case and win against one of these landlords on the basis of discrimination.

You can be sure that were a serious economic downturn to occur and many people were on SW, they would be the first to take advantage.

by hank Mon Nov 20, 2006 22:17

One of the points I made was that I perceived the statement "rent allowance not accepted" to be a statement of discrimination. If the web site published the statement "Caucasians not accepted" then there would be outrage.

However when you are looking for accommodation and are denied it because you need to claim rent allowance then there does not seem to be much difference in the meaning of these statements.

The purpose of the original posting was to see if anyone had suggestions or felt strongly enough to act to address this.

by gerri Mon Nov 20, 2006 21:54

I don't think that private rented accommodation is a sustainable solution to housing needs, it most certainly is not a valid response to the needs of those on social welfare seeking accommodation.

The reason I hold this view is because private landlords are property speculators. In many cases they have bought property very cheaply many years ago, there is huge equity and they collect thousands of euro per month for doing very little other than being a very successful species of parasite. Those living in private rented accommodation have no stake in the property market, a lot of the time they are paying on a monthly basis most of what if would cost them if they were paying a mortgage.

For those on social welfare whose rent will be paid by rent allowance, this represents extremely bad value for the exchequer. I can't remember the exact figure paid out in 2005 but is was a huge amount of money - this money all goes towards lining the pockets of greedy landlords. As well as that, what a landlord can get on rent allowance will often set a benchmark for all rents and can represent the minimum amount of rent to be paid. If amounts given on rent allowance are raised, landlords will simply raise the amount they charge, they won't make any improvements whatsover, the only ones to benefit are the landlords.

by hank Mon Nov 20, 2006 21:45

Why should anyone be humiliated and discriminated against because someone believes that they should be in "gainful employment". The private business of the tenant is not a concern of the landlord.
If the tenants stayed successfully for the duration of a lease period why should a landlord want them to leave? Is to prevent them from acquiring more rights?

(Most working class people who are working are not in gainful employment anyway. They are in low paid, high stress jobs where their basic rights are violated. No! Ok you try driving the bin lorry or have a go at a production line!).

Why should the state abdicate its responsibility and pay millions to private property owners while doing nothing to enable the homeless obtain access to secure accommodation? If you don’t own your own home then you are homeless.

Why should people seeking to fulfil their basic needs be subject to the perverted ideology of the "free" market and be placed at the mercy of private landlords? A class of people who, to judge by their behaviour, are devoid of moral reference points.

by Cleaver Mon Nov 20, 2006 21:05

I think that it is useful the website in question does state whether the landlord takes rent allowance or not, as it saves someone phoning the landlord only then being told that they won't accept them.
There are much bigger problems with the rent allowance system. The current rent caps for instance mean that people are finding it increasingly difficult to access private rented even if the landlord does take rent allowance.

by Dave Mon Nov 20, 2006 16:32

I agree that refusing ALL rent allowance tenants is unfair.

As a landlord, one reason I am sometimes put off tenants who have the rent allowance is that it is considerably more difficult to get them to leave at the end of the lease agreement or if there is a problem if they don't want to leave. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for long leases and long tenancies (with cheaper rent), but few tenants are prepared to commit for any length of time above a year.

PS on the rent relief document;;; the landlord does not have to sign it anymore nor do you need their PPS number, just put in their name and address (and whatever other info you have) and you get the rent relief. They'll chase the landlord (believe me!).

by LaLa Mon Nov 20, 2006 16:32

Call it what you want but a landlord will chose someone with a job over someone who doesn't as they are seen as safer bet.

by Kate Mon Nov 20, 2006 16:18

"The biggest reason for it still happening is to do with fact that would be tenant is not in gainful employment - lots of free time and little euro so landlord is taking a bigger chance that they will pay the rent than with someone in a paying job. Can't see wrong intent there. "

With all due respect, this is nonsense. Rent allowance can be paid directly to the landlord, so it is completely risk free. The reason we even found the dive we did was because the landlord had to declare everything as he had a huge block of flats and various other businesses linked to it. He was therefore declaring everything. However, it is naive to think that all landlords declare their income from property, as from years of renting in Ireland I know they do not. How many people have faced this problem when looking for the landlord to sign forms so they could get their tax back at the end of the year? I know plenty. Many are not registered and unless you are already living there there is not much you can do against them. This would also explain the fact that if you lose your job they will then accept SW money - if they refuse they know they can get in serious trouble.

In addition, being entitled to rent allowance does not mean you are going to sit at home on your ass all day swigging from a flagon of cider. At the time I mentioned I was rarely home between working in retail part-time and going to college. My partner may be disabled but this does not mean he is a layabout either. What about one-parent families where the parent has fled abuse, been abandoned or widowed, and has had to stop work to take care of the kids? We also shared with one such family and it was far from comfortable for either party! It most certainly is discrimination, and a discrimination which leads to much hardship.

by LaLa Mon Nov 20, 2006 14:41

This happened a lot years ago due to landlords not bothering to pay taxes and not wanting to get caught by the Revenue (this has changed a bit due to tenancy board where all tenancies have to be registered, so more pay their taxes).

The biggest reason for it still happening is to do with fact that would be tenant is not in gainful employment - lots of free time and little euro so landlord is taking a bigger chance that they will pay the rent than with someone in a paying job. Can't see wrong intent there.

Strangely have come across cases were tenants rent place (for which landlord would not intially accept rent allowance) , lose there jobs and landlord then happy to sort out rent allowance as they build up trust between each other.

by Kate Mon Nov 20, 2006 13:54

This is something myself and my disabled partner have suffered from in the past. We are thankfully sorted out now, but there was a time where we were forced into totally unsuitable accomodation as we could not find a flat which was both affordable (rent allowance is limited and they obviously will not pay for a four bedroomed house for a couple with no kids, which is understandable) and where the landlord was willing to accept SW tenants. We ended up living in a slum shared by students who held endless parties - a complete nightmare. A clean one bedroomed flat would have suited us perfectly but we simply could not find one. I was a student at the time, working part-time, which is why we were eligible. Landlords should not be allowed to get away with this.