Response received to Feature

by C. Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:33

Hi Robert,

Thank you for your mail - this is the purpose of the 'Open Publishing'
concept that Indymedia is built on: to allow review of articles and features
and a more involved form of media.

On the specific issues you raise: crowd numbers are always difficult (every
side has a different number) but if you have any reference for your number I
can see no issue with updating the feature to reflect this. Not having a
great interest in military toys I don't know what the Hercules craft should
be described as - do you have more details? On the AC-130 - while this is a
gunship, it was widely reported that it was rounds from this plane that hit
the wedding party in Kandahar and not the B2 that accompanied it. I am sure
that the dead and their relatives would appreciate us getting our facts
straight - they were not bombed, they were killed by a gunship. As regards
an AC-130 landing in Ireland - the link states that C-130's were defintely
spotted and that the person posting believed they saw an AC-130 on Halloween
night last year - the 'reported sightings'.

I am posting your comment to the newswire where I feel there may be people
more informed who can discuss the neutrality / Kosova / Afghanistan issues
you raise. We do not censor or stop any point of view as long as it abides
with our editorial guidelines.

Thank you again for being a part of the media.

by Robert Fahy Thu Jul 11, 2002 15:37 robfahy at hotmail dot com

Ciaran,

If you do not know much about these aircraft, then why are you talking about them. It is a debate that you can never win if you havn't a clue about the facts.
Colateral damage may very well have been caused by an AC-130 in Kandahar, but one of these aircraft has never landed on Irish soil. Of this I am positive, whereas you have a vague idea that one was spotted at Shannon. On your website you provide a photo of a Hercules KC-130, which is a refueling tanker, not a gunship or a bomber.
From your reply to my email you seem to be complaining about the AC-130 in genereal, and not about it landing in Ireland. Does this now mean that you are not concentrating on just Ireland anymore, but are going to take yourself and your 13 picket writers to Washington in your Volkswagen camper van to save the world?
I am just happy that you lot are not running the country, you are an embarrassment to the nation.

Environmentally yours, Robert Fahy.

by Dildo Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:18

Robert,
Could you not at least be gracious enough to thank Ciaran for going to the effort of translating your post from the imc list to the newswire which he did in the interests of balance.
Ciaran is also quite clear about his sources:
"As regards an AC-130 landing in Ireland - the link states that C-130's were defintely spotted and that the person posting believed they saw an AC-130 on Halloween night last year - the 'reported sightings'."
and does not make totally wild remarks such as your:
"Colateral damage may very well have been caused by an AC-130 in Kandahar, but one of these aircraft has never landed on Irish soil. Of this I am positive,"
Do you work for Strategic Air Command or whatever body fulfills that function in Ireland or are you an air traffic controller? Perhaps you live in a tent beside Shannon Airport monitoring every flight in and out just to prove our gallant military planespotters wrong?
Consider also this: it doesn't matter a damn if the military planes which use Irish airspace carry nuclear bombs or just plain petrol because the fact is they are being used to fight a war that we have no truck with. If we support the US then let us declare war on Afghanistan (unlike those yellow-belly Yankees who haven't bothered with official declarations - too much responsibility attached).
Every military flight that leaves Shannon for Afghanistan is part of the war effort. I do not agree with what I think is an imperialist war and I will protest against it.
You're the disgrace, Bob!

by Blisset Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:22

Why would be the present government be so anxious to put a veneer of neutrality on the country in advance of NICE treaty if this issue is only of concern to the small number of protesters who were at the event. It is of concern to a large proportion of the population.

What do you think the awnser would be if the country was allowed to vote on the following proposition.

Should we allow the US military to make use of an Irish Airport as part of the prosecution of the 'war on terror'?

by GluttonMan - Waxers on the Body Politic Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:24

Robert,
I have no idea if you are correct when you state that no F-15s took part in the air show. If you are correct then your contribution is useful. However you should also be chastising The Irish Times which states:

Two US Air Force F-15 Fighting Falcons, three German Tornado jets and aircraft from the US, Britain and Ireland are due to participate in the 11th annual air show, which has been billed as the biggest free public event of its kind in Europe.

That's in the link provided by the Indymedia.ie article.

So, what can we learn from this? That just because you read something, or someone tells you something doesn't make it true.

I note Robert that you scrupulously avoid providing any precise estimates of your own. How many people were at the air show? What aircraft took part?

Thanks.

GluttonMan

by publo Thu Jul 11, 2002 19:26

There were at maximium 50,000 people at the air show last sunday in salthill, although this number fell fairly rapidly cos of the appaling weather. cheers

by Robert Fahy Fri Jul 12, 2002 13:54 robfahy at hotmail dot com

Dear Dildo,

I don't think I have to thank anyone for making a complete mis-representation of the issue being discussed. You would realise this if your IQ reflected your name. On halloween night last year a KC-130 landed at Shannon, not an AC-130 as reported by one of your colleagues who has the eyesight of a mole.
It seems to me that the extent of your research goes by reading the Irish Times and reading their word as gospel. I really think you should not be taking an amateur stab at being journalists yourselves, until you have at least read the "Dummies Guide To Journalism".
As for your media representation my Miss D'Arcy, she looks and seems to have the mentality of a Neanderthal. She really should crawl back under her stone in Bedrock. How do you expect to be taking seriously at all.
I would suspect Dildo, Blisset and Gluttonman are your real names and the accident that brought you lot into the world was the result of a hippy convention sometime in the late 60s. See, my information is indeed quite correct!

Environmentally yours, Robert Fahy.

by Fred Flintstone - Bedrock cafe Fri Jul 12, 2002 14:21 witchypoo68 at hotmail dot com 95, glen dara, newcastle galway 091529745

Fair play to you rob, we are very proud to have such a cool irish person who acctually speaks the truth!

WE LOVE YOU ROB!!!

AND THE REST OF YOU WANKERS, WE KNOW WHERE YE LIVE!!!........

by Aidan O'Brien Sat Jul 13, 2002 03:55 aidanobrien at hushmail dot com

As the author of this piece I should feel I step in.

1. The figure of 100,000 is taken from an RTE news piece on the Sunday night. It's an estimate from the airshow organisers, I felt it only fair that they be quoted accurately.

2. The F-15, and Hercules. Again I'm not a plane spotter, or Air Industry professionals, and took the Irish Times article as having a better source than me. After we've explained things to you on four seperate occasions why this mistake occured, do you not think you're flogging a dead horse?

3. The AC-130. As I understand it a AC-130 is a C-130 modified into an attack aircraft. So it would be an easy mistake to make. Secondly the author of that report stated clearly that he suspected but could not confirm it, because the airport officals refused to respond. Several people re-iterated this for you. If you can't grasp that fine we'll stop saying it. Secondly you've not refuted his reports on other aircarft including F-16s arriving in ireland. Considering our government is so willing to ignore requests for information on the comings and goings of an airport owned by the Irish people it means dedicated individuals like Tim must resort to spying on a national airport. From a distance and at night.

4. Your constant and tedious Volkswagon jokes. I'm not painting my Volkswagon (a 93 Golf) "psycadelic" (sic) colours. It's a nice shade of red. You did get that right though, I do own a Volkswagon.

5. You abuse of those who post againist you. Your comments againist Miss D'Arcy are both illmannered abusive, childish and contemptable, as you descent into abuse of those who post againist you (I'll bet you entire thrust of a response will be focused onto this one point and not what follows).

You've spent the majority of your time nickpicking minor factual errors and not the thrust of this piece, to wit, the landing of US aircraft on irish soil is a breach of Irish Neutrality and morally reprehensible. That our governments avoidance of debate on this subject while loudly "standing up" for Irish neutrality at EU summits is hyprocritical.

You've told us that the RAF and USAF are all that stand between Ireland and an invasion of Islamic terrorists (that and 6,000 miles, four major mountain ranges, three deserts, 37 countries, thousands of rivers, and Belguim), I'd argue that allowing America to US our country as a glorfied landing strip makes us a target for desperate terrorists.

As for your tired abuse and weary hippy comments, Robert the majority of people who have responded to you have valid and real concerns over our governments, our representives behaviour. During the recent general election none of the major political parties engaged in debate over US miltary use of shannon and on many occasions when approached steadfastly avoided questions on the issue. When your political leaders will not discuss these issues with you, you are left without resort aside from protest or more extreme behaviour. The salthill airshow was a valid way of expression for their angry and highlighting a protest that our government is ignoring.

Environmentally yours (whatever that means)

Aidan O'Brien