Belfast Protest: End The Occupation Of Iraq & Afghanistan

by Anti Imperialist - Ógra Shinn Féin Mon Sep 11, 2006 23:43 osfnational at yahoo dot ie

A true effective Anti-Imperialist Movement cannot be built in Ireland while many left wing groups forget about the Imperialist occupation of the 6 North Eastern Counties of Ireland.

Ógra Shinn Féin are consistent in our Anti-Imperialist message. End The Occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Ireland.

Would we in Ireland take any Iraqi, or Palestinian serious if they campaigned exclusively about the occupation in other countries and ignored the occupation of there own, ofcourse we would not. We must be consistent in our messge.

The Imperialist War Machine must be dismantled across the world, and that includes Ireland.

End The Occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan and IRELAND

by anti-war Tue Sep 12, 2006 00:07

Is this yet more Belfast 'socialist' partitionism like that emanating from the IAWM in Belfast (BAWM)??? What about the national demo in Dublin on 23rd September?

by me Tue Sep 12, 2006 00:10

I know the AWI crew in Belfast are coming to Dublin; the BAWM people are going to Manchester; the Socialist Party (NI) are staying in Belfast.

What about the rest of youse? Is partitionism this embedded?

by . Tue Sep 12, 2006 09:43

Not everyone is able to get to Dublin or Manchester on the day so a protest in Belfast is a good idea.

Will there be a protest in Galway, Derry or Cork or should they all be in Dublin?

by ... Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:45

But obviously some people don't believe in such things. Whatever.

by Red1985 - Socialist Youth / Socialist Party (personal capacity) Wed Sep 13, 2006 17:52

I find it quite shocking that someone has complained about Socialist Youth organising a protest in Belfast as part of the international day of action. Surely you recognise that protests should be as widespread as possible, and it is not possible for everyone to make it to Dublin for the national demo? This gives more people from Belfast to raise their voices against the occupations and imperialist intervention in the Middle East.

And to Ogra Shinn Fein, the Socialist Party opposed the sending of British troops into the North from the outset as they would be used to oppress united movements of the working class, whereas Sinn Fein welcomed them as peacekeepers, there to defend the Catholic community.

However, there is a fundamental difference between the occupation of the North and the partition of Ireland and the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. There, the vast bulk of the population are totally opposed to Western troops on their soil. In the North, the largest religious community generally supports the presence of British troops, primarily because of the tactics of the Provos over the last 30 years.

We do support the withdrawal of British troops from the North. Look at the 'What We Stand For Column' on the back of our paper. However, because of the support the troops' presence has, we do not take it up as a primary issue or in the way that OSF does, which only alienates the Protestant working class.

Instead, we aim to unite workers across the sectarian divide on class issues that unite them, such as water charges and attacks on public services (which SF presided over when they were in the Assembly Executive). We do this to try to build a united movement of all workers in the North to fight capitalism and create a democratic, socialist Ireland where the legitimate fears of the Protestant community are answered. This is the only kind of movement that can win the support of Protestant workers to remove British troops from the North.

And the OSF writer seems to baulk at the idea of a voluntary socialist federation of the British Isles as a step towards a socialist world. Does the idea of unity with British workers disgust him so? Are they the oppressors or another section of the oppressed? Do Sinn Fein recognise that socialism can only be built internationally or are they calling for, as Stalin did, 'socialism in one country'?

by socialist Wed Sep 13, 2006 17:57

Do you also use the terms Londonderry and the Mainland?

by Red1985 Wed Sep 13, 2006 22:34

A very political retort. I'm glad you took up the points I raised and didn't quibble over a formation of words.

by Socialist Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:03

It was a 'political' retort if you can see beyond the superficial. Your focus on Britain (you're a branch of a British organisation, after all) is highlighted by your terminology. Worse, you can't see this yourself. You and your organisation are colonial socialists, always looking to Britain.

As for your general points, Ogra SF can speak for themselves. They're of no interest to me.

by Red1985 - Socialist Party (personal capacity) Mon Sep 18, 2006 14:19

We are not a branch of a British based organisation, we are the Irish section of a democratic centralist Marxist international with groups in 40 countries, and all of them represented in its democratic bodies.

by Jimmy Mon Sep 18, 2006 16:25

I thought Sinn Fein were calling for the implimentation of the "Good Friday agreement" in its entirety. Surely part of that was the 6 counties would remain part of the UK until the democratic wish of the majority of people in those counties wanted a change. As with all the political parties in this sad little part of the world SF are just as selective with their reading of the agreement.