Protest Against HMS Ocean

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Jun 22, 2006 18:46

All comments appreciated

by ocean Thu Jun 22, 2006 18:55

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76721

by Sean McIntyre Thu Jun 22, 2006 18:59

Great to see this protests being organised to protest the illegal and immoral war in Iraq and hope it gets a large turn out, only thing i wonder about is why you feel the need to side-step the British military presense on our own island? They have murdered civilians, maintained and colluded with loyalist death squads and they are a foriegn occupying force. Let's be consistant.

England out of Ireland.
US/England out of Iraq.

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Jun 22, 2006 19:12

RSF protest against British Naval Vessel in Cork - so I hope there is a good chance they will be joining the IAWM protest next Thursday 29th

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/72941

Related Link: http://www.rsf.ie

Pitstop Ploughshares, on the other hand say: "This time round there is sufficient time for all active anti-war/peace groups to voice their opposition autonomously or collectively to this pending visit. We'll be on the streets.

Is it too optimistic to hope that we can join forces and do it collectively?

I know quite a number of activists from the Anti-War Network will be there too. It's looking good.

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland Thu Jun 22, 2006 19:20

Well, I'm all for picketing British warships. Always was.

This demonstration really should be supported by all anti-war activists, if at all possible. The British involvement in the Iraqi occupation neds to be highlighted more. Won't be able to make 6pm myself, for work reasons, but will definitely be along later.

by pat c Thu Jun 22, 2006 19:48

Like Fintan I have always been on for protesting against British Warships. Maybe its a Cork thing. A Kerry thing as well, Ristárd Ó Behal gave a RN ship a right Republican Welcome once.

by x Thu Jun 22, 2006 20:31

after the demo, you should come to the indymedia film night in liberty hall.

support the resource that you use every day!

by síochan Thu Jun 22, 2006 20:40

Belfast,Basra,Bogside,Baghdad...British Troops Not Welcome!

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Jun 22, 2006 21:05

A few pics just received from Vienna -
Gives us a few ideas I hope
Enjoy

No Words Necessary

A Sign of Things To Come

The Top Terrorist

by Seacilín Thu Jun 22, 2006 23:22

I'll be there surely, with my placard highlighting the British involvement in the occupation of Iraq and Ireland. The British were always a threat to international peace, and they still are, and still trying to expand their power. They seem to thrive on invading countries and inflicting misery and robbery whereever they install their army, and they're always blaming the natives of these countries labelling them "terrorists" if they dare take up arms or speak out against them. Yes, they are true professionals at war, surely, none but the US have such a depth and wide ranging experience in war, yes, they're real feckin experts in international murder!!

Britain are also in the habit of murdering their own citizens at times, particularly, if they happen to be born with dark skin, yes, you are in real trouble if you look Middle Eastern in England, on very precarious ground indeed, and if you speak out against them, well you'll definitely be sent back to the nearest country that will kill you!

I feel so sorry for the people of Iraq, sure look at the shite we have to put up with for well over 800 years and their still feckin here!! So come on everyone, let us show them how unwelcome their Warship is - the fact that they need such a ship in the first place just goes to show the type they are!

Support the demo!!

Slán anois!

by pat c Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:05

Theres more about the Vienna protest here:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76791

Good idea to link British occupation of Basra with its occupation of Belfast. Michael you were looking for ideas, maybe get a speaker who will make those links.

by Damien M - Pitstop Ploughshares (Personal Capacity) Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:49

The comment that Michael Y has quoted above as something the Pitstop Ploughshares wrote was in fact written by myself. I should have made it clear that I was writing in a personal capacity.
So just to clarify in case there are any misunderstandings:

1. I wrote the comment quoted above as the Pitstop Ploughshares position before the IAWM organised their march.
2. I was the person who first posted the Daily Ireland revelation about the visit of HMS Ocean on the IAWM website, so not trying to undermine their efforts.
3. We have re-initiated daily street vigils since last Monday, therefore 'we will be on the streets' at the GPO from 12noon-2pm on Thursday June 29th.
4. I don't think it's too optimistic to hope that different groups could gather in various blocks on the route proposed by the IAWM but I also don't think groups should consider that this is the only option - if they have the energy/initiative/will to organise something else at Gvt. Buildings, etc. for whatever their reason may be then that's better than doing nothing at all - when the USS La Salle came in May '04 Eoin Dubsky was busy chasing up the authorities about the Radiological Protection Act, we were at the Spire informing the public and the IAWM were at the East Link bridge.
5. We have a public meeting with Nobel Peace Laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire in Wynne's Hotel on Abbey str. at 7.30pm that evening therefore we haven't yet decided whether to do a solidarity vigil at the GPO/Spire informing the masses about the HMS Ocean visit as they flood by on their way home from work/to the pub to watch the World Cup. I think the latter is more likely as we would need to leave the main march at 6.45pm to get back on time and set up shop at Wynnes for our meeting - so the streets we will be on at 6pm may be different to the streets ye are on but will be letting people know of the gallant efforts to overthrow the Dublin warship beerfest.

So if all or some of the Pitstop Ploughshares crew are not on the march please know that we are standing in solidarity with you on another Dublin street informing the public about this obscene visit.

by MichaelY - iawm Fri Jun 23, 2006 13:35

Thanks for the suggestion PatC. We are trying to get Rose Gentle to join us for the day...any further suggestions re: your idea? And, incidentally, I am delighted we can work together on this rather than get to each other....joke!
Damien - understand perfectly well....some of us will come over and join you over lunch time and try to co-ordinate this a bit better.

Solidarity

by pat c Fri Jun 23, 2006 13:54

Someone who is non party but takes a consistent Anti Imperialist line is Finian McGrath TD, I think he'd make a good speaker.

I dont want to see people bored to death by speechs but it would be an idea to invite speakers from SP, SY, SF, WSM, AY, LY. I'm sure the SWP will appear as IAWM & PBPA (I dont think they'll be able to justify Save Dun Laoire Baths! joke).

by Barry - 32csm Fri Jun 23, 2006 15:17

If I remember that episode correctly he welcomed it with a 7 foot long semi automatic anti-tank rifle as it came into Cork harbour, which caused a bit of a stir at the time .

I suppose theres little chance of 32csm ever getting an invite to speak as polite comapny tends to regard us as awful ruffians but no doubt we'll toddle along and try and not upset anyone . Hope the imperialist ship of death sinks with all hands.

by w. Fri Jun 23, 2006 15:25

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a speaking place at an IAWM event, anarchist youth members with hefty fines are still waiting for the pledged solidarity from the IAWM (in any form at all). I'd love to hear from the CW5 at this event and even the dissident republican (joke) take on anti-imperialism, surely that's how we build a diverse anti-war movement.

by pat c Fri Jun 23, 2006 15:36

Barry

Why not contact the IAWM seeking to have a speaker at the protest? I suggest Finian because while he is an Anti-Imperialist he would be non-contentious. But see what they say and let us know here.

W

I suggested AY to have a speaker for the very reason you raise. Why not contact the IAWM and ask for speaking rights? Again report back here.

by Seacilín Fri Jun 23, 2006 15:59

Barry, a chara,

I think someone from your movement should be allowed speak, your just as entitled as any of the rest who show their support for this protest. Yes, do contact the organisers and let us all know how you get on. There are more political movements out there than just the ones quoted and they should be given a platform to speak.

Ádh mór ort!

by js123 - socialist party cork Fri Jun 23, 2006 16:08

Is there not an undermining of the Irish Constitution in relation to neutrality regarding Shannon? Should this not entail a judicial process whereby the powers that be, responsible for this infringement are brought to task by some impeachment process? An infringement of the constitution by an acting government is illegal and accountable. Indeed in some countries any infringement of the constitution by persons or powers carry the highest penalties.

by S Iraq Fri Jun 23, 2006 16:44

check out this debate in the Dail. Minister Noel Treacy called the warship "wonderful"!

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20060621...age=7

also in todays Daily Ireland...

"In 2003 her commanding officer, Captain Chris Clayton, said she had made a “vital effort in securing southern Iraq”. “HMS Ocean was a major component of the assault on southern Iraq and particularly the Al Faw peninsula in those first three days.”
The oil rich Al Faw peninsula witnessed some of the fiercest fighting in the early days of the invasion."

from this Daily Ireland article

http://www.dailyireland.com/home.tvt?_ticket=OG3U9LLDNT...opp=1

by MichaelY - iawm Fri Jun 23, 2006 16:59

Hey PatC

Following your suggestion we are contacting Finian to see whether he is available and willing to speak.
As for our anarchist comrades, we are awaiting for them to contact us directly or through Indymedia with suggestions....

by w. - Anarchist Youth Fri Jun 23, 2006 17:05

AY are meeting tomorrow we will be discussing our prisoner support and the demo on thursday amongst other things, we will be in touch.

by Duine Fri Jun 23, 2006 17:10

Ná bacaigí leis an long!

Nach bhfuil fhios agaibh go bhfuil ambasáid ag An Ríocht Aontaithe i mBaile Átha Cliath? Litreacha, ríomhphoist, picéid, stailc ocrais?
Cá bhfuil an fíor-reabhlóid?

by sheehy skeffington Fri Jun 23, 2006 17:48

Since we're suggesting speakers, may i suggest RSF. My reason is this RSF members were protesting the war in Iraq, including the first gulf war at Shannon when it was a quite lonely endeavor. RSFshowed great solidarity with Mary Kelly and has always been a strong proponent of genuine nuetrality etc etc.. As I said they were there in the begining, would be nice to see them given their fair dues. Best of luck to all involved in organising this!

by MichaelY - iawm Sat Jun 24, 2006 19:36

At a meeting in the Teachers Club this afternoon (Sat -24th) , our initiative to hold the protest/demonstartion against HMS Ocean received full support from:
PANA, NGO Alliance, Sinn Fein, RSF and Anti-War Alliance from Belfast.

We have agreed that speeches will happen at the end of the march and will be strictly limited in their duration. We have also agreed that the first three mentioned organisations, and the Belfast comrades will have a representative speaker as well as an invitation will be addressed to Finian....the RSF representative said she will consider the matter. Posters and leaflets for the demo are available for those who want to help.

Lets make this a demo to remember.....

by anon Sat Jun 24, 2006 20:12

well if you ain't gonna beat the tabloids at the game you're pretty weak :P

The Sun reporter spent one hour aboard HMS Ocean at the Devonport naval base in Plymouth on Tuesday and took video footage of the deck.

He said guards waved him into the base without closely inspecting his pass.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/503251...6.stm

by S. Karlsson - Royal Marines Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:44

I am planning to be aboard HMS OCEAN as she sails to Dublin this week, on what is primarily a "social visit". The original plan was to host a remembrance service on the 1st July to commemorate the 35,500 Irish soldiers that gave up their lives during the Battle of the Somme. However due to the likes of this demonstration the service has been called off. The Irish Government is fully aware of the politically sensitive nature of the ships visit, and the Garda Band has also cancelled their planned performance.

However a small delegation of the Royal Irish Regiment - members of the British Armed Forces elite Air Assault Brigade will be onboard and hosting regimental awareness days. At least 80% of the Regiment is made up of Irish soldiers of all denominations, approximately 15% from the Republic.
I hope this protest remains anti-war, and is not hijacked by the anti-Brit mob; as most of the troops onboard are simply coming home.
I hope your protest passes peacefully.

S. Karlsson

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland Sun Jun 25, 2006 21:05

I find it remarkable that there are still people who cannot place the blame for the slaughter at the Somme firmly where it belongs - with imperialist regimes who, in pursuit of power, sacrificed a generation of young people. One of those 'great powers' - Britain - was driven from Ireland a few years after the First World War, but continued to exercise its violent imperialism elsewhere. Iraq is a current victim, but let's not forget India, Aden and other similar places.

One of my great-grandfathers, Christopher Lane, and his brother, John, both in their early 20s, met violent deaths in the fields of France. (Back home in Ireland, another brother joined and saw action with the IRA.) Those British soldiers who died at the Somme and in trenches across Europe were victims of imperialist violence as surely as those they killed from the other side. Pay homage to the army that sent them to their deaths? I think not. Respect the 'Irish' regiments in the British army? I don't think so. Rather, I look forward eagerly to the day when the British army and Royal Navy are consigned to history along with the ruling class that sends them to kill and die.

by Seaicilín F Sun Jun 25, 2006 21:49

Well, the nerve of you coming here in your feckin Warship responsible for the murdering of thousands of people, dictating to us to have a peaceful demonstration, like you'd know anything at all about peace! And you'll be finding no mobs here, just people who are against the British involvement in the Iraq war and their continued occupation of the six counties of Ireland. And it is a great relief to know that the Garda Band will not be playing - this protest is showing signs of success already!

by Paul Revere Sun Jun 25, 2006 23:12

They're coming by sea!

by MichaelY - iawm Mon Jun 26, 2006 00:32

Hey Carlson,

Along with your British friends, you guys seem to forget that the we in the 26 Counties are an independent country - we are fully aware that it may take another few years for the occupied 6 Counties to unite with the Republic...but we are patient.....
But the last thing we need from the likes of you is to be lectured on how to behave when a UK Navy warship 'visits socially' our shores. HMS Ocean has played a major role on your Army's assault on Iraq....this is not a pleasure craft...it's a major cog in the Empire's war machine.
Our anti-war stance is a stance against the US/UK Empire....this is clear.
Now, how we will fashion our welcome to the brave soldiers aboard...that's entirely our business. We need no paternalistic - see colonial - guff from your lot!

See you on Thursday

For Fintan and the other friends and comrades who are joining this thread my warmest solidarity and thanks.

by young anarchist - Anarchist Youth (pers cap) Mon Jun 26, 2006 01:12

Funny how the state applauds peaceful and tame protest. Mr. Karlsson if the mood should take us we might just board your ship and throw you into the sea, there are a few thousand dead iraqi's who I'm sure would support us.

If anybody wishes to donate money to baldonnel defendents anarchist youth will be organising a presence on this demo so feel free to come and talk to us.

by youth revolt - ay Mon Jun 26, 2006 01:36

poster

by Fintan Lane Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:14

"One of those 'great powers' - Britain - was driven from Ireland a few years after the First World War."

The line above from my earlier posting obviously requires correction. It should, of course, read: "One of those 'great powers' - Britain - was driven from MOST of Ireland a few years after the First World War." We're still working on the rest, but that day will come too.

by pat c Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:22

I was musing over that sentence!

Two of my great-uncles also fell in Flanders Fields serving in the British Army and another was so badly gassed that he never really recovered. One of my grandfathers and other greatuncles were in the IRA. The way to remember those who died in WWI is to wear a White Poppy, the symbol of the International Peace Pledge Union. This does not glorify Imperialism but remembers all of those who were butchered by Imperialism, be they Irish, English, Welsh, Scottish, German, Austrian, French, Italian, Russian, Serbian or of whatever Nationality.

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:28

Good point, Pat.

I don't know if it is possible to find white poppies at this time of year or where, but it would be a good gesture if people could wear such symbols on Thursday.

by pat c Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:32

I may have a couple. Difficult to get. A Scottish comrade sent a couple to me. People might try and make some.

by Davy Carlin Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:38

Can u let me know who are the Anti War Alliance in Belfast and who are involved etc-, as I have not ever seen anything advertised etc for meetings, pickets, rallies, stalls - involvement - around City.

Also it would be good to put up a contact person and where they meet etc, as so people who want to, can get involved and know that they exsist.

Cheers D

by anarcho Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:43

The list of organisations calling the demo is revealing for whose not involved. Will a speaker from Grassroots Dissent or Anarchist Youth be allowed? Don't hold your breath.

by Tank Girl Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:48

It is interesting to read that anon existent organidsation, AWI Belfast is going to have a speaker at the rally. I can only assume that it is yet another SWP front. You will have noticed that AY is actually carrying out work to ensure a good turnout at the protest. In this case surely it is appropriate that AY should have a speaker at the demo.

by Fintan Lane - AWI Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:54

Tank Girl,

You refer to AWI Belfast in your post. For the sake of clarity, can I point out that Anti-War Ireland does not presently have a branch in Belfast; we do have a member or two there, but no branch, as yet. The Belfast Anti-War Alliance that Michael refers to is not connected to AWI.

Anti-War Ireland is not among the 'official' organisers of this protest, but we do fully support it and urge people to attend.

by Ciaron Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:00

White poppies come out in November. You can get them from Pax Christi amongst others

by MichaelY - iawm Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:05

I am delighted to see the AY poster and re:the fact that we can work on this together in order to provide our 'guests' the most apt welcome.
Having discussed the issue with the IAWM comrades, we decided it would be absolutely essential to have a speaker representing the anarchist section of the anti-war movement. So, dear Tank Girl, Davy etc let us know, here in this thread, who the speaker would be and she/he will be given equal time to the other speakers. List is being finalised and will be posted here.
As for the speaker from Belfast, it will be David Morisson - hope I'm spelling his name correctly.

Now all those holding their breath can let a mighty puff coooooooommmmmmme o o o o o o o o u u u u u u u t t t t t t t t !

Things may be changing - slowly may be but they are!

by BK Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:16

Any idea what time the ship is actually arriving in port at? I know the time of the protest and everything, just wondering how long it's gonna be sitting there.

by pat c Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:17

Never to early for the White Poppy to bloom. Heres a photo of one, it doesnt have to have a little peace written in the centre. Just white leaves with a black hub would suffice. So why not make your own Peace Poppy.

White Poppy

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland Mon Jun 26, 2006 13:03

The Royal Marine who posted above included the following peculiar sentence in his remarks:

"A small delegation of the Royal Irish Regiment - members of the British Armed Forces elite Air Assault Brigade will be onboard and hosting regimental awareness days."

What precisely are 'regimental awareness days'? Would the purpose be to persuade young Irish people of the 'merits' of being in the British army? In short, are there going to be attempts at recruitment, whether explicitly or covertly, while this British warship is anchored in Dublin?

by Davy Carlin Mon Jun 26, 2006 17:00

Sound Michael Y, good to see Anarchists welcomed to speak.

On the other matter, I know of only one David Morrison, in Belfast, who both does meetings for the BAWM and for those hosted by the SWP, but I don't think he is a member of the SWP

For me I genuinely would like to know who is involved in the Belfast Anti War alliance, where do they meet, how to you get involved etc, because firstly as stated, I have never seen them about, but more importantly as so people can get involved.

Also given the real issues of democracy and accountably that many have raised, as u are aware with the IAWM – BAWM etc, then it is essential, as the Anti War alliance in the south is striving to continue to be – that such an alliance is set up on that basis of accountability and democracy.

Therefore such information would be both useful for activists that wished to get involved and essential on the merits of the Alliance, and not being see, or in real terms, just being another phantom called upon at whim by some who still seek to work like that.

So if possible could that be cleared up, as it is a geniune concern already being expressed to me -and in the meantime will look into it myself also.

I will say though that the march and protest is an excellent initiative – well done all

Cheers. D

by Duine Mon Jun 26, 2006 17:19

Ar thug éinne faoi dheara go bhfuil sásra mhíleata na Ríochta Aontaithe scaipthe ar fud Thuaisceart na hÉireann?

B'fhéidir gur fiú agóid nó dhó anseo!

by padraig Tue Jun 27, 2006 05:11

This is coming along grand. Great to see such a diverse number of groups standing as one, IAWM,AY,RSF etc etc. Fair play to the organisers!

by fujuka Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:05

You can plan you life around the IMC Event Calendar, tonight:

6:00 Anti War Protest
7:00 IMC Film Night
9:00 Porco Dio Gig

(shame about the shit weather though)

by Fly in the ointment Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:46

I hate to be a fly in the ointment but I find it a bit much that MichaelY is backslapping himself because an anarchist will be allowed to speak. Anybody remember the big demos when direct action people (like Mary Kelly and Pitstop Ploughshares) and anarchists were kept well off the platform? Remember those happy times when the antiwar movement was in full swing? And now that things have died down, suddenly anarchists are welcome because the IAWM needs us to mobilise for their demos. :-) When the numbers increase again and the IAWM/SWP embrace those to their right, as they will do, will anarchists still be welcomed onto the platform? Doubt it.

I'll be there but without illusions. MichaelY has no track record in the antiwar movement and I see no reason to trust him as a barometer of thinking in the IAWM.

See ya all on Thursday!

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:13

"For five centuries now 'a fly in the ointment' has meant a small defect that spoils something valuable or is a source of annoyance." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997).

Now - we were asked to invite an anarchist speaker - we did so...though I still don't know who it will be. Waiting. The fly in the message above is not happy....too bad! From the tone, I presume he/she would have preferred for the IAWM to refuse so that the anti-litany could start. And not being able to, he/she is annoyed - see definition above.
As for track records.....we better leave that issue to the various historians that populate this gig. Lets say, in my case, my track record begins right here....however the tone of the message is a 'defect that spoils something valuable'.

by Record Keeper Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:25

Your record may start right here but you have claimed that you have been in Ireland since the 1970s. But you were not active in campaigns for may years prior to joing the IAWM. Now either correct the record or just shut up.

You annoy people because you act as if you are the Godfather of the ANTI WAR MOVEMENT. Dispensing favours and making people offers they cannot understand. Stop preening. Outside of the IAWM you have no real credibility.

by Barry - 32csm Tue Jun 27, 2006 14:16

Clearly this is a backdoor attempt to do the above as well as recruit some gobshites into the British army . 1916 was a total rejection of such recruitment of Irish people for imperialist adventures and this is an abject insult to our people . The disgraceful beer promotion seems to be a stereotypical attempt to entice alcoholic paddies aboard because as every englishman knows paddy will go anywhere for a free beer and is very easily bought . No doubt therell be a singsong planned too . Given the history of the British navy shelling the absolute shit out of Dublin and its inhabitants during 1916 the the thought of a piss up aboard a British warship during 1916 commemorations is in the worst taste imaginable .
Perhaps someone could find out which English beer companies are using this warship to promote their product so they can be boycotted in future or perhaps written to politely and objections to their behaviour pointed out to them ? These companies deserve all the negative publicity for their product which can be engendered . Irish pubs can be contacted and asked not to stock their product . Im sure many pubs would readily agree not to if their activity was pointed out .

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Jun 27, 2006 14:27

In response to the last message, below is the text circulated by the British Beer & Pub Association to its members:

"Interested in exporting beer to Ireland? - 17 May 2006 at 16:43
The BBPA is pleased to be able to offer you the opportunity to participate in a unique export event in Dublin. They have been given the chance to invite a limited number of key agents, distributors and retailers to a reception being hosted by the British Embassy in Dublin on board HMS Ocean - a naval aircraft carrier - on Thursday 29th June.

If you are interested in exporting beer to Ireland and are free to attend an event there on 29th June please complete the attached participation form an return it to as soon as possible

Janet Witheridge
Deputy Director, Brewing
British Beer & Pub Association
Market Towers
1, Nine Elms Lane
London SW8 5NQ

tel: 020 7627 9133
mobile: 07768 876792
fax: 0207 627 9123

[email protected]

www.beerandpub.com

Some of the beer on board will be coming from Plymouth - and to answer an earlier query above HMS Ocean is due to stay here for three full days.

by Ahoy Tue Jun 27, 2006 20:45

Just heard from a reliable source that several NGO's (Goal, Concern Troica) have been invited onto the ship for discussions on issues like "global security". Apparently they are quite open to the invitation.

by Young Pirate Tue Jun 27, 2006 21:40

Dozens of Posters were put up around the City Centre and the resdential areas beside where the ship is docking today.

arrrrr

by young anarchist - also AY Tue Jun 27, 2006 22:22

Also saw a pig tear down a poster on O Connell bridge today, what a waste.

by archivist Tue Jun 27, 2006 22:28

The mysterious MichaelY first began posting on indymedia in January 2006. Where was he before then? Now it's a salesman for the discredited IAWM/SWP.

Onto the protest - good to see such a wide range of groups getting their shit together on this, from Republican SF to Anarchist Youth! I heard tonight that heads will be travelling up and down and across to Dublin from other parts also. Bring it on!

by ... Tue Jun 27, 2006 22:40

Are Provisonal Sinn Fein supporting it the demo?

by . Tue Jun 27, 2006 23:27

Yes, they are.

by Statin' the Obvious Wed Jun 28, 2006 08:46

They are here to promote the British imperial war machine. If they think access to your cultue is beer (not a bad assumption) they'll use it. It'a a war machine that has masscared its way through history, played a central role in enforcing the sanctions in the 1990's that killed over 1 million Iraqi kids and was involved in the invasion and ongoing war on Iraq.

Pathetic how Irish NGO's are going down to receive hospitality of the ship. These NGO elites have a lot to answer for. maybe the chuggers will strike...don't hold your breath. Much appreciation for all folks heading down there to protest.

Friendships not Warships!

by Madam K Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:35

.

.

by . Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:38

H.M.S Ocean docking in bay just opp ferryman pub

by P McKenna Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:25

Excellent piece by Patricia McKenna on this ships visit.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76893

by Dave Wed Jun 28, 2006 14:54

I think that its a positive sign that this ship can actually visit. Peaceful protests are fine and everyones right, but there is a risk that we get into a mentality of 30 years ago which was unhelpful.

Im against Iraq as much as the next person, but this is a goodwill visit and not a stop en route which i think is different and hope the ship has a good visit to build relations with our closest neighbour.

regards

Dave

by Ruri Wed Jun 28, 2006 15:08

Sure the lads aboard the vessel are petrified!

by x Wed Jun 28, 2006 15:19

... sure wait until you see how many Gardai they have down at the dockside to protect them.

by anon Wed Jun 28, 2006 15:19

I dont know if they'd advertise a visit to the warship so the only conference I can see that may be taking place is http://www.tcd.ie/iiis/documents/documents/Global%20Dev...l.pdf

Global Development Conference by Irish Aid Advisory Board with alot of VIPs

Mary Robinson, Peter Sutherland, Jeffery Sachs, Conor Lenihan, which includes a lecture on getting GMO into LDCs

by guydebordisdead - fraggers of the world Wed Jun 28, 2006 15:21

Do people involved in the military not get the irony of asking (telling) others to protest peacefuly? Fuck you and your warship.

by MichaelY - iawm Wed Jun 28, 2006 15:27

The Conference mentioned in Anon's message above is due to take in the TCD School of Midwifery on 24 D'Olier St. on Thursday + Friday.
Which, of course, does not in itself mean that all, or some of, the Conference heads may not decide to partake in the beer tasting and the British Embassy cocktails on offer on HMS Ocean - albeit, of course, in a peaceful and dignified manner.

See you all there tomorrow.

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland Wed Jun 28, 2006 15:40

The feedback I've been getting on this has been extremely good and we may see a decent-sized protest tomorrow. Fingers crossed. I think this is one of those occasions when anti-war activists should make an extra-special effort to be there.

Well done to those who called this demo and well done to everybody building for it! It would have been awful if this ship of death had been allowed to slip in and out of Dublin port without strong voices being raised in protest. We now know that won't happen.

by Tongue-In-Cheka Wed Jun 28, 2006 15:58

"I think this is one of those occasions when anti-war activists should make an extra-special effort to be there."

An earnest plea like this, might mean another article.

by NGO (not going on) Wed Jun 28, 2006 16:24

Are the likes of Trocaire, Goal, etc actually going on board a military warship?

What do they have to say about this?

Are they supportive of the spending of millions on military hardware when there are millions of people dying in Africa (who they're supposedly helping through their charity work) ??

Do they support militarism when arms dealers make a fortune from internecine conflicts in Africa that perpetuate human misery?

SHAME on them if they put one foot on the gangway - any charity or NGO that does will never get another penny from me or my friends and I'll make sure the next time I see one of them in the street, I'll make sure to pass on my thoughts and feelings to them.

by pat c Wed Jun 28, 2006 16:39

Nothing would surprise me about what John O'Shea of Goal would do. He likes to expport relief at the point of a gun, I seriously question the mans sanity. But I would be astonished if Trocaire or Concern were to officially attend a meeting on the ship.

by John Wed Jun 28, 2006 16:48

Don't worry! In this instance, Fintan is earnestly calling for support for an IAWM demo.

Dave Lordan will be delighted and there won't be any article accusing Fintan of 'attacking' the SWP. The last time remember, it was an Antiwar Ireland solidarity vigil and we can't have people calling for support for that sort of thing! Oh no...not at all, no SWP involved in that group so it must be condemned, damned, vilified. The IAWM, on the other hand, is heavenly sent and calls of support should be as earnest as possible.

by blackbeard Wed Jun 28, 2006 18:23

Seems RSF are having their demo at 7pm tommorrow.

Why do they have to be akward?

by idiot watch Wed Jun 28, 2006 18:26

Republican Sinn Féin will be holding a protest on Thursday June 29, from 7pm at the Famine Memorial in the Financial Centre in Dublin's Docklands at the visit of the British naval vessel Ocean.

http://www.rsfcork.com/currentnews.htm

by Elaine Wed Jun 28, 2006 19:21

You will not see a War Ship, at least, as of 3.30 today there was no sign of one. We did see the Fire Brigade practice their floating, fully dressed alas. They want to be prepared in case anyone goes overboard at the protest tomorrow.
We saw The Faramir, part of the SPIRASI Tall Ship Challenge Against Torture, leaving Dublin's quays.
see http://www.spirasi.ie/tall-ship/ for more info.
We did not see HMS Ocean or anything like it but if you want to see more photos of it when it was in Dublin in 2004, check out here
www.irishships.com

"HMS Ocean is an amphibious helicopter carrier, but it has the ability to deploy troops from its landing craft as well as by air.
It was commissioned into the British fleet in August 1998 and is the sixth ship to bear the famous name. It is based in Devonport in Devon.
The ship carries a crew of 255, an aircrew of 206 and up to 480 Royal Marine Commandos.
In a short-term emergency it is capable of transporting and sustaining an embarked military force of up to 800 men equipped with artillery, vehicles and stores. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2634435.stm

Fire Brigade Men Get A Bit Of Practice In

Ahoy There

No Warships Here Yet

This Is What It Looks Like (from Irishships.com)

The Faramir Leaves

by anon Wed Jun 28, 2006 19:53

http://www.seawaves.com/navcall.htm

30 Jun 06 HNLMS Middelburg M 858 Dublin
30 Jun 06 HNLMS Vlaardingen M 863 Dublin
30 Jun 06 HNLMS Zierikzee M 862 Dublin

HNLMS Mercuur A900 Dublin June 21

by con fahey Wed Jun 28, 2006 20:05

RSF has NOT called for a sperate demo. RSF fully supports this demo.

by Jim o Wed Jun 28, 2006 20:20

idiot watch

What are you on man. I just checked the link and its says 6pm. You must hang out in Harcourt Street with the rest of the idiot watch.

by MichaelY - iawm Wed Jun 28, 2006 20:39

No - the watch was right - it did say 7.00 but we contacted them, pointed out it must have been a mistake and they corrected it.
Politeness and sensitivity works when the spirit of unity is there.

by Sean MacIntyre Wed Jun 28, 2006 20:43

Micheal, so what is the line-up for the speakers? Hope theres a great turn out!

by . Wed Jun 28, 2006 21:24

"You will not see a War Ship, at least, as of 3.30 today there was no sign of one..."
WHEN IT ARRIVES TOMORROW it will be docking in bay opp ferryman pub

by James - Workers Solidarity Wed Jun 28, 2006 21:56

Michael Y (IAWM): "Having discussed the issue with the IAWM comrades, we decided it would be absolutely essential to have a speaker representing the anarchist section of the anti-war movement."

Thanks for that. The WSM contacted the IAWM via the contact form on the webpage last night indicating we'd be interested in having a speaker. There's no reply as of yet but hopefully it will work out.

by redjade Wed Jun 28, 2006 22:05

I see that SPIRASI is up to good things as usual :-)

Tall Ship Challenge Against Torture
http://www.ireland.ie/Result/IndividualResultTCS.aspx?t...61895

but what's the deal with the name of the ship? Faramir

which came first - the ship or the book?

David Wenham as Faramir
http://www.lordoftherings.net/film/cast/ca_dwenh.html

Faramir, Human of Gondor - (Lord of the Rings)

by Mr. T. Wed Jun 28, 2006 23:08

Since when is WSM an umbrella for libertarians? From reading the website for WSM, it seems pretty clear to me its core constituency is anarcho-syndicalists (communitarian / marxists core values) rather than anarcho-libertarians (anti-central-government, anti-corporation individualists whose core values centre on free market capitalism). We Anarcho-Libertarians are most certainly anti-war, but would be about as likely to align with "workers solidarity movements" as we would to join some fundamentalist religious cult.

Has the term "libertarian" been the victim of yet another re-branding exercise?

by James Wed Jun 28, 2006 23:27

Mr T:
Has the term "libertarian" been the victim of yet another re-branding exercise?

Well, yes it has, by right-wing ideologues who have a fantasy version of free market capitalism as being vaguely realistic. In the USA it’s commonly used in that way.

However in Europe the word libertarian is synonymous with the anarchist movement. For example, the various Spanish anarchist organizations, both syndicalist and pure anarchists are jointly known as the “Spanish Libertarian Movement”. The WSM’s magazine is subtitled “a magazine of libertarian communism”.

Anarchists, that is (anarchist-communists) first stared using the term “libertarian” as a substitute for “anarchist” a long time ago, in the 1890s when the French state pulled a section 31 type ban on anarchist propaganda. And “libertarian communism” was (and is) the stated objective of the massive Spanish anarchist movement in the first half of the 20th century. That’s well before Hayek and Nozick got in on the act.

The whole point of anarchism is that true “anti-central government” society is only possible when workers collectively take action to run their own lives, i.e. to organize in a socialist manner. That isn’t remotely possible in an individualist world, assuming the latter is itself possible.

Always liked the quote from Bakunin:
"... freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice
... Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality"

by redjade Wed Jun 28, 2006 23:43

'Well, yes it has, by right-wing ideologues who have a fantasy version of free market capitalism as being vaguely realistic. In the USA it’s commonly used in that way.'

the old joke in the US of A is that
a Libertarian is a Republican that smokes dope
- or is Gay

when the cognitive dissonance gets so great
its time to change the trademark™

by James Thu Jun 29, 2006 00:19

I agree, Redjade. It is really time you Yankees caught up with the rest of the world! :)

Even your Latin Amercian (loads of them) and Canadian colleagues use “libertarian” correctly: e.g. http://www.nefac.net/ See the linguistically fantastic French title – “LA FÉDÉRATION DES COMMUNISTES LIBERTAIRES DU NORD-EST”!

by redjade Thu Jun 29, 2006 00:30

'Why give up such a nice word?'

true - i agree.

But 'Libertarian' always struck me as a word like 'Agnostic'

Agnostic is really just another word for an uncommitted christian/theist - or is it uncommitted athiest?
(i cant remember which - Ciaron O' always told me that one :-P)

Libertarian Socialist is good enuf for me - just means i want my cake and eat it too.
(and the bakery too, of course)

by Mr. T. Thu Jun 29, 2006 01:05

I'm neither gay nor republican (in either the American or irish sense) but wouldn't refuse an offer of a toke. And although I'm not gay I certainly have no objections to those who are. American Republicans I certainly have quite a few conflicts with - they are not libertarians in any sense of my understanding of its core values and their obsession with religious fundamentalism makes them my political enemy.

I'm well aware of Bakunin and his ilk but I admit I've never heard them refered to as libertarians. Libertarian-socialists - yes, but not stand-alone libertarian, which by definition is a philosophy placing a high value on individual liberty and personal freedom. Guess it's along the lines of the creative branding that places the word Democratic in "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" and "Democratic Republic of Congo".

My concept of libertarianism does not come from the American realm as has been suggested and I'm not in the USA - I'm Irish living in Ireland. I presume you mean Ayn Rand - who I find mildly entertaining as a novelist but as a philosopher she is simplistic and deeply flawed. My understanding of libertarianism comes primarily from studies of the work of economist von Mises, who did much work in the US and UK after fleeing the nazi's. He wrote a brilliant book "Socialism" that I'd recommend highly to anyone who has doubts about socialism capacity to function on a large scale. But I am neighther an academic nor an ideologue - I recognise that pure unrestricted capitalism and individualism won't work to the benefit of all in society, so I embrace some elements of socialism, namely a measured redistribution of wealth and provision of housing, education and health care for all. I also admire socialism for it's abandonment of institutional religion and cutting off its political tentacles. But pure socialism has never worked in anything larger than a kibbutz-scale. Add absolute power to large scale pure socialist experiments and out come Bolshevism, Stalinism, Juche, Khmer Rouge, Mao's Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution to name a few bloodsoaked failures. For pure socialism to work you must change fundamental human nature, and that's simply unrealistic.

There's so much love for the mythical spanish "anarchist-libertarians" out here on Indymedia. But how many of their sycophants are aware that when the spanish "anarchist-libertarians" (your Bakunin-Kropotkin flavour) took over large sections of Spain during the Civil War of the 193Os, they confiscated and destroyed all the money in these areas and promptly decreed the death penalty for the use of money? If these nutters are your champions of "freedom" and social compassion then I'd rather take my chances with the oppressive capitalists. At least I can understand what motivates the capitalists.

by fireman sam - dublin fire brigade Thu Jun 29, 2006 02:04

The Fire Brigade were not practising for the arrival of HMS Ocean or for the protest. They carry out drill every afternoon from 3pm. The crew that were on at 3pm yesterday will be going home at 6 on thursday, when the protest is on but another crew will take their place. From the amount that were there, it looks like it may have been a training course which would not have any relevance to the ship or the protest.

by David Thu Jun 29, 2006 02:27

Hi,
This really looks like a nice occasion to visit a warship of our closest neighbours in the UK.

I've heard that its arrival is due to the anniversary of the Somme and serves as a good reminder of the struggle we have both shared for freedom and democracy!

Will bring my family over to see it and hopefully we will be allowed to go on a tour of the ship.

Goodnight!

by Captain Pugwash Thu Jun 29, 2006 02:41

Hi David
I hope you explain to your kids how the big guns on the ship fire big shells that pulverises all that it lands on. Then explain about litlle Ali in Iraq who lost his his arms from big shells from big guns. Maybe you have a child the same age as Ali? His Father and Mother were killed in the attack too and all he got out of it was a pair of prosthetic arms and a lousy man united T-Shirt.

No I can't see you mentioning that because you refuse to seethe truth.

But Hey! As along as your enjoying yourself.

by Sydney? Thu Jun 29, 2006 03:32

Do the Pit Stop Ploughshares have a slot on the speaking platform at this thing. Aren't they on trial in Dublin next week?

by Devils Advocate Thu Jun 29, 2006 09:26

Do the readers of this board hold the same viewpoint in relation to Royal Navy/Royal Air Force Helicopters that land in / visit Ireland when conducting air sea rescue operations in Irish waters. How many Irish people have been saved by British Helicopters when they got into difficulty in the Irish Sea. Last year the RAF provided top cover with a Nimrod aircraft to locate a trawler crew off Kerry or Cork. crew were rescued by Irish helicopter from Shannon but RAF helped locate the trawler. is this co operation with a neighbouring state a breach of our netural policy?

by devil's avocado Thu Jun 29, 2006 09:36

the problem is they dont just do that alone, and this specific warship has been out killing people rather than saving them. therefore a demonstration against this ship is justified.

by Curious Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:04

My understanding was that the speaker offer was to AY. This was because AY had produced a poster for the protest, thats the context in which the IAWM made the offer. . I thought AY was independent of the WSM but are the WSM now pulling rank and grabbing the speaker?

by The Cat Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:08

Sorry I won't be able to make the bash in the Officers' Ward Room. It will be a bally good time! Of course, many of the Irish naval establishment will be there, meeting up with old mates from their Portsmouth days. What is jolly nice to read is how quaint you lot can be. Imagine realisation slowly dawning that a warship is made for... war!!!

by Joe - WSM - personal capacity Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:31

James phrasing is perhaps open to your unfortunate misreading but my understanding is that Anarchist Youth have requested to speak and we have also requested to speak. My expectation would be that someone would speak from each of those organisations rather than either from one or the other as they are independent of each other. The actual cross over of membership is in both cases a pretty small percentage of the overall membership of each.

Anyone interested in the weird use of anarchism above by our 'libertarian' capitalist friend will find a detailed demolition at http://anarchism.ws/faq/append1.html

by rob Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:04

Are the IAWM asking the Pitstop Ploughshares to speak? It would be downright weird if they weren't asked to. Well?

by pat c Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:08

Re Anarchists in Spaiin 1936:
"they confiscated and destroyed all the money in these areas and promptly decreed the death penalty for the use of money? "

Really? Did this apply to everyone regardless of age? How did they trade with people from outside their own area? Did they revert to a barter economy?

Wherever did you read this?

by w. - wsm and anarchist youth Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:24

"My understanding was that the speaker offer was to AY. This was because AY had produced a poster for the protest, thats the context in which the IAWM made the offer. . I thought AY was independent of the WSM but are the WSM now pulling rank and grabbing the speaker?"

AY are independent of the the WSM and although we have a very healthy relationship with them they are in no position to "pull rank". AY decided against having a speaker at this demo and as such have left the slot open to a comrade from the WSM.

by K Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:24

The Daily Ireland has reported today that school tours will be brought on board HMS Ocean tomorrow and there is a "cocktail party" tonight.

Also NGO's have been invited on to a seminar on crisis management or something.

Interesting to see if NGOs go on.

by w. - wsm and anarchist youth Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:24

"My understanding was that the speaker offer was to AY. This was because AY had produced a poster for the protest, thats the context in which the IAWM made the offer. . I thought AY was independent of the WSM but are the WSM now pulling rank and grabbing the speaker?"

AY are independent of the the WSM and although we have a very healthy relationship with them they are in no position to "pull rank". AY decided against having a speaker at this demo and as such have left the slot open to a comrade from the WSM.

by Shinners Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:27

Sinn Féin are holding a protest as well?
see http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/14885

Sinn Féin Dublin South Central TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh has said the arrival in Dublin today of one of the largest warships in the British Navy is "totally unacceptable." Deputy Ó Snodaigh described the government's invitation of the warship as "shameful."

Speaking in the Dáil this morning he said, "The arrival in Dublin today of HMS Ocean is totally unacceptable, as is the presence of any British military apparatus on this island, including our ports, airports, seas and skies, while the British military occupation of the Six Counties and of Iraq continues.

"This warship is one of the largest warships in the British Navy and played a key role in Britain's illegal invasion of Iraq. The government's invitation of this vessel is shameful." ENDS

Note to editor: Sinn Féin will hold a protest at the arrival of HMS Ocean in Dublin at the Famine Memorial on the northside of the Quays, just opposite the IFSC at 6pm this evening.

by W. - wsm and ay Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:31

"There's so much love for the mythical spanish "anarchist-libertarians" out here on Indymedia. But how many of their sycophants are aware that when the spanish "anarchist-libertarians" (your Bakunin-Kropotkin flavour) took over large sections of Spain during the Civil War of the 193Os, they confiscated and destroyed all the money in these areas and promptly decreed the death penalty for the use of money?"

What bull, the anarchists expropriated a lot of the money from banks etc. and then as towns collectivised they issued their own token form of money which was distributed equally to everyone, this meant people were unable to accumulate wealth as everyone had the same amount of money and goods and services were also distributed equitably. Obviously the model differed in different regions and of course the anarchists were in a war against fascism so certainly some people did get shot, they were mostly ruling class fascists and these were popular acts. There are many great books on the spanish civil war, if you promise not to bend the spine I'll loan you some.

by rob Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:42

"Sinn Féin Dublin South Central TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh has said the arrival in Dublin today of one of the largest warships in the British Navy is "totally unacceptable." Deputy Ó Snodaigh described the government's invitation of the warship as "shameful."

I am sure if it was a german U-boat it would be a different matter

I find Aengus Ó Snodaigh "totally unacceptable."

Will his 'election workers' be coming to the protest with a car full baseball bats and balaclavas?

by Noel Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:49

I suspect the sailors are shitting their bellbottoms
at the prospect of being 'citizen-arrested' by some anti-war clown.

by The Cat Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:49

K,
damn it, I am going to miss a great bash. Loads of battle-randy female ensigns! The decks awash with Guinness, port being passed counter-clockwise, hoorah, big bubbly ensigns showing me their rack, and then to their rack, in their cabin.

Hooorah!

by Captain Samuel Bellamy Thu Jun 29, 2006 14:28

If the weather holds off, we might see a very good turnout.

by Captain Bight Thu Jun 29, 2006 14:35

you might see a good turnup.

Aaaaah!! I dont believe I just said that!

by Duine Thu Jun 29, 2006 14:37

Ba chóir tabhairt ar na mairnéalaigh an long a thréigeadh is tearmann polaitiúil a lorg in Éirinn

by Michael - iawm Thu Jun 29, 2006 14:53

HMS Ocean is in - absolutely massive - it berthed inside Dublin Port -access is still open at the moment of writing through Alexandra Rd. It's a good walk/march from the Famine spot......it will take us an hour or so to get close. Gardai presence noticeable but low profile.
Gray clouds all around....see if the Man up there still maintains an anti-war/anti-imperialist stance.
Finian was invited to speak - can't make it. John Gormley(Green), Ed Horgan (PANA) and speakers from WSM, Ploughshares, Sinn Fein , NGO Alliance and (I hope) IAWM confirmed.
See you all with your banners and placards and colourful (rain gear?) at 6.00

Solidarity.

by anon Thu Jun 29, 2006 14:55

Good article about this in today's Daily Ireland quoting Anti-War Ireland and the Greens.

See from postings above that the trolls are out – we must be hitting a sore spot with the West Brits and neo-cons :-)

by speakers Thu Jun 29, 2006 14:59

speakers should speak at the monument rather than down at the ship if it is an hour away, cant see all the journalist going down that far and also people living outside Dublin will have to get busses etc after work?, and may not be able to do a two hour round trip by foot!

best of luck tonight.

by Niall Thu Jun 29, 2006 15:45

does anyone know the details of the march after the meet up? What streets are the protesters marching down etc? I can't get into Dublin city til about 6.45 but would like to meet up with the (hopeful) crowds along the way

by MXM - none Thu Jun 29, 2006 15:49

Protests would get a better turn-out if it weren't for the speakers.

It would be great if the timing for speeches etc. was clearer, so folk could go along and remain distinct from those with other agendas.

Would be much more effective if all sorts of folk could unite on the one issue...always annoys me no end when speakers are basically peddling their own opinions under the guise of purely anti-war etc.

I think most people in the country are anti-war, but not all are for the greens, the SWP, anarchists etc. etc.

your opinion appreciated, because it wreaks my head!
ta

by Depleted Uranium Thu Jun 29, 2006 15:55

Todays Daily Ireland article which does not seem to be on line but it also says HMS Ocean used to use Depleted Uranium up until recently but does not give much details.

here is another article but not from today. Quotes form Edward Horgan and Richard Boyd Barret.

http://www.dailyireland.com/home.tvt?_ticket=4APVOCZ25G...opp=1

by shin something Thu Jun 29, 2006 16:02

I would love to protest,,

but would feel like a Hypocrite to be in a march against terrorist if Sinn Fein are in the same March,,,Seems to defeat the purpose

by gg Thu Jun 29, 2006 16:12

Too bad today's Daily Ireland isn't online. Quotes John Gormley and Fintan Lane.

It's a big piece, the main feature of which is the revelation that HMS Ocean used to fire depleted uranium-based ammunition and carried 300 Royal Marines and 400 air crew during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Reveals that the ship was also directly involved in the attack on Afghanistan in 2002.

Daily Ireland has been quite good on the war, hasn't it?

by Duine Thu Jun 29, 2006 16:23

"It's a big piece, the main feature of which is the revelation that HMS Ocean used to fire depleted uranium-based ammunition and carried 300 Royal Marines and 400 air crew during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Reveals that the ship was also directly involved in the attack on Afghanistan in 2002."

Ó tuigim anois. Tá daoine ag agóid i gcoinne na loinge, seachas i gcoinne an chogaidh. Nach mé atá amaideach?

by x Thu Jun 29, 2006 16:31

is it all the way down at the east end of alexandra road, right at the very end of the docks?

or is it in one of the docks off alex. rd, on the south face of the north quays?

either way its a long, long walk.

there's a gate at the entrance of alexandra rd near the point depot, wouldnt be surprised if its "temporarily closed" by the Garda for "traffic restrictions" or the like...

by observer Thu Jun 29, 2006 16:37

Daily Ireland article doesn't quote John Gormley, just mentions him in passing, but as he's speaking tonight we can assume he's onside. Only quotes Fintan Lane. One thing the article also mentions is that the Irish Naval Service and the Royal Navy crew are going to play 'a sport' together. Fucks sake, they''ll be organising games of baseball with the CIA at Shannon next. This is gettin out of hand!

by Just wondering... Thu Jun 29, 2006 16:48

how long will it take us to get from the memorial down to the ship?

I've heard talk of up to an hour, is this correct?

Also, roughly how long do people imagine we'll be there, at least listening to speakers?

Just wondering,thanks to anyone with any idea!

by duine cliste Thu Jun 29, 2006 19:15

"Duine", i think the point is what the boat represents. the fact that it's been used as outlined above makes it a valid focal point for protest against the war.

by George Brown Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:54

Had a great time at the party on HMS Ocean last night. Hundreds of guests there enjoying themselves. Even had real ale. Didn't even notice any protesters... Rule Britannia!

by Duine Fri Jun 30, 2006 17:04

A Dhuine Chliste.

""Duine", i think the point is what the boat represents. the fact that it's been used as outlined above makes it a valid focal point for protest against the war."

Tá fhios agam. Bhí mé le greann. Ach ná bíodh daoine ag plé na ceisteanna beaga nuair atá na ceisteanna móra ann

by ATAQ Fri Jun 30, 2006 18:08

I am Irish 100% and aged 18, And boy I tell ya, I am off the Royal Irish Regiment.
Nothing will become off nothing without war.
I welcome HMS Ocean, its crew and the Royal Irish Rangers onboard!
And hippys marching is just foolishness.
YOUR SAY MEANS NOTHING!
So remember it.

by Mark O'H - Failte Fri Jun 30, 2006 21:42

I welcome the fine ship with open arms. I was embarassed to hear that protests were planned, but relieved when I heard of the pathetic turnout.
Fair play to ATAQ. You actually have the balls to go out do something with your life!

by Cueball Sat Jul 01, 2006 15:52

I find your comments about terrorism in Northern Ireland highly amusing, given that Irish Catholics and Protestants have killed far more civilians than the authorities there.

By the way, it's a little difficult to insist London withdraws from Ulster given that:

a) The people there consistently demonstrate they want to rip each other apart
b) Dublin doesn't want Ulster anymore because it's too poor

So are you advocating a withdrawl from Northern Ireland because you'd prefer to see it descend into chaos rather than finally pull itself together as part of the UK? Such an attitude seems rather selfish to me.

by w. Sat Jul 01, 2006 15:58

Most of the AY posters for this demo were torn down almost immediately, at least one poster was torn down by a garda (I saw him do it). Does this mean the DCC are continuing their strategy of silencing social movements etc.? If so next time I wont print posters I'll simply make a stencil.

by ste Sat Jul 01, 2006 17:57

Does this mean the DCC are continuing their strategy of silencing social movements etc.? YES

I presume you didn't ask for permission as you probably not willing to play the councils game so I doubt the new rule applies in your case, I doubt thef IAWM had time to apply for permission either, if they did it be nice if they could reproduce their correspondence with the DCC somewhere.

by wound up! Thu Nov 02, 2006 00:32

To all those people out there who don't agree with H.M.S Ocean and what it does could you please spare a thought for the men who are serving on the ship as they don't like being away from home either. Do you think if it was up to them, that they would really want to come to such an unwelcome, hypercritical place such as Ireland! As the wife of a wonderful sailor who is currently serving on the Ocean I can honestly say that there was very few on board who wanted to go to Iraq in the first place but at the end of the day that is what they join the forces for in the first place. But when it comes down to it the ship is just a glorified car ferry as I'm sure alot of the crew would agree with me! They just transport the Marines to there destination along with supplies and I'm not under any illusion that she wasn't involved in the war with Iraq but don't blame the men on board. The people you need to take your troubles to is not on board the ship but the pen pushers. The people who give the commands to start the wars in the first place! Oh and by the way, if a few crazy people in Iraq didn't bomb the USA in the first place this wouldn't be happening. Blame Bush and Blair if you have to but not the innocents who are just doing there jobs and trying to earn a respectable living for themselves and there families who wait for them at home. We wait alot you know! Thankyou.

by w. Thu Nov 02, 2006 00:40

"if a few crazy people in Iraq didn't bomb the USA in the first place this wouldn't be happening"

When did Iraq bomb the USA?

by wound up! Fri Nov 10, 2006 14:23

Sorry for the wrong comment. I meant to say the al-queda terrorised the usa by hi-jacking the various passenger planes.

by anon Fri Nov 10, 2006 15:19

And those Al Queda terrorists were mostly Saudi Arabian. So, why didn't Bush attack that particular dictatorship? The home of hand-chopping and a great ally of the US, I should add.