Residents from across Dublin campaigning against the planned incinerator for Dublin Bay will protest

by northdub Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:29

McDowell is only against the incinerator as he knows it would end his political career in that constituency. He cares nothing about the environment, proper and sustainable planning and the rights and wishes of people who are not eligible to vote for him. Anyone who buys a farm in a lovely rural area and decides its suitable for the biggest prison in Europe does not have proper and sustainable planning high on their agenda! I have no doubt he will vote against the incinerator. In fact he will probably suggest it be relocated to Thornton Hall.

I hope the people from Duleek in County Meath show their support for your campaign as well today. I think you may win the battle but the strategic infrastructure bill being rushed through the oireachtas at present will allow Government to bypass all normal planning procedures and end local democratic politics in relation to 'undesirable' projects. Just as Michael McDowell is using Part 9 Planning which exempts Prisons from the planning process, the Government will use the new bill to exempt incinerators, roads etc etc from the planning process in the future.

I wish you the very best of luck and hope that your voices are heard today. The very idea of locating an incinerator anywhere in the so called 'green and beautiful' country is incongruous. Mind you it might mask the smell coming from Ringsend sewage plant!!!

by Chris Murray - The Unmanageables Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:53

The planning around the Incinerator, involves the moving of numerous heavy waste-bearing trucks through an
area , already blighted with planning offence.

The residents have to keep awareness and protest
going despite the SIB not including the Poolbeg Incinerator.

The CPO process, in relation to the land-buying is as far as I am aware, complete. The focus groups/consultation is
over.

by Ryano - Green Party Wed Jun 21, 2006 19:13

Without wishing to belittle the Labour Party's contribution to this cause, I think it's only fair to point out that it's the Green Party who are using their private members time to move this motion - it's not a "combined Green and Labour Party motion" as stated above. Labour do have a motion down on this issue but have not yet used their private members time to have it debated.

by Terence Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:38

This campaign needs to be broadened alot more as few people outside the immediate area seem to be aware that there is even an incinerator planned for Dublin.

by Sam Tue Jul 11, 2006 07:51

Not many people reading this story would appreciate its significance?
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=1561...1.asp
The largely unreported collapse of the much vaunted Herhof business and the technology that it represented must certainly put a stop to the incinerator debate in Ireland?

by Nigel Tue Jul 11, 2006 07:55

If the richest guys in Ireland could not make an incinerator work, what hope de we all have of the Corpo making one work?

Treasury faces costly legal battle over Herhof collapse

09 July 2006 By Ian Kehoe
Irish property company Treasury Holdings is facing a multi-million-euro legal battle arising from the collapse of its German waste subsidiary Herhof.

Irish property company Treasury Holdings is facing a multi-million-euro legal battle arising from the collapse of its German waste subsidiary Herhof.

A local authority in the German state of Saxony is suing Treasury in the High Court in Dublin in an effort to force the Irish company to pay it more than €10million in compensation.

Initial documents were lodged with the court in recent weeks.

The Schneidenbach local authority is claiming that it contracted Herhof to build a high-specification waste treatment plant. Under German law, all waste must be treated in specially built plants before it enters a landfill.

As part of the deal, the authority is claiming that Treasury provided an indemnity in the event of Herhof being unable to complete the project. Herhof collapsed last year, and Schneidenbach is now petitioning the High Court to force Treasury to pay compensation.

The case is being taken through a commercial subsidiary of the local authority, Dephonie Schneidenbach.

Treasury, which is controlled by Johnny Ronan and Richard Barrett, has signalled to the court that it intends to defend the action.

Both sides have filed a number of affidavits in recent weeks. Dephonie Schneidenbach is represented by Dublin law firm Duncan Grehan & Partners, while Treasury has retained Arthur Cox.

Last week, the case was transferred to the Commercial Court, a division of the High Court that fast tracks multimillion euro disputes. The case is due up again at the end of this month. A spokesman for Treasury said the company was not in a position to comment.

Treasury bought Herhof for €20 million in 2003. The deal saw Treasury take control of a manufacturing facility in Hamburg, three plants in Germany, one in Italy and several waste disposal contracts and their technology.

Despite landing a number of contracts, the company ran into liquidity problems the following year.

An administrator was appointed last March, but he was unable to devise a rescue package and the company collapsed.

Treasury Holdings is one of the largest Irish property development companies with assets of more than €1billion.

It is currently involved in a €1.6 billion development in China and is also developing the Spencer Dock site in Dublin’s docklands in a joint venture with businessman Harry Crosbie and CIE.

by sam Tue Jul 11, 2006 07:57

Look at these folks
http://www.elsam.com/index.dsp?area=1004

by sam Tue Jul 11, 2006 08:00

These guys have had problems with plants that polluted in the past, this is no good

by sam Tue Jul 11, 2006 08:26

Hey according to Elsam’s annual report for 2005, (http://www.elsam.com/multimedia/Elsam_2005_GB1.pdf) Elsam Dublin Waste to Energy Limited has a net capital of 5,630,000 DKK ~ €754,796 ONLY? Now call me foolish, but an incinerator for €754,796 now that’s a bargain, I’ll have two please, no don’t wrap them …..lets save the paper!
Elsam Dublin Waste to Energy Limited was formed on 11/3/05 company number 399060 and has an address at ARTHUR COX BUILDING
EARLSFORT TERRACE DUBLIN 2 (http://www.cro.ie/search/companyresultse.asp)

by Curious Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:41

He's never shy when attacking what he sees as the 'far left'. Isn't his electoral ward near the proposed site? Where is he on this issue? This is being done in the name of his beloved Dublin City Council. Why is that so Dermot? As an elected rep of that body, what are you doing to stop it? That's if you dont think it is a wonderfully modern idea that deserves your full support.

by Dermot Lacey Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:48

Curious,

I have opposed the proposed Incinerator since it was first mooted. Along with colleagues I have submitted motion after motion opposing it. I secured changes in the Development Plan to try and block it. I have attended and supported all the meetings/protests etc organised by the groups opposing it. I have made financial donations to the campaign opposing it. I will be making a submission to An Bord Pleanala in relation to it.

Of course this is not a Dublin City Council plan. It is a Management Plan at the behest of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Because of changes in legislation ALL Waste Matters are now the preserve of the Manager. As I have said before and say it again this legislative change is the ONLY change arising from the Anti Bin Tax Campaign.

When Councillors had the power WE did not include Incineration in the Plan. Unfortunately that Power was removed from us - thanks to those who ensured that happened!

by Ringsend Resident Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:00

Management or otherwise it is being done in the name of Dublin City Council. And you are a rep of that body. Your mealy mouthed words let that Council off the hook. The campaign you disparage showed up the undemocratic nature of decision making in this country. And your casting vote was a vote for backing up that position.

by Joe Smoke Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:03

Whats wrong with having an incinerator in Sandymount? It s better than having it in my back garden and hopefully it will harm some of the P.D. voters in Dublin 4

by Dermot Lacey Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:11

I am not a representative of Dublin City Council I am a member of it freely chosen and elected by the people of the area. The fact of the matter is that the Incinerator is not being proposed by the elected Council. it is in fact opposed by the elected Council.

My vote as Mayor was in defence of democracy and those who campaigned so vigoursly against Councillors using those powers properly should now claim the credit for the power being transferred to the Manager.

by Ringsend Resident Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:29

"I am not a representative of Dublin City Council I am a member of it freely chosen and elected by the people of the area. The fact of the matter is that the Incinerator is not being proposed by the elected Council. it is in fact opposed by the elected Council."

It is being done in the name of Dublin City Council. What you are admitting here is that the democratically elected councillors are reduntant. You have no power in opposing things that you are against that is done in your name. And this is what you used your casting vote for.

"My vote as Mayor was in defence of democracy and those who campaigned so vigoursly against Councillors using those powers properly should now claim the credit for the power being transferred to the Manager. "

Pure fantasy Dermot. Bertie would be proud of this sort of thought gymnastics. I remember he supported the anti-war marchers at the same time as allowing Shannon to be used by thousands of US troops. He claims to be a Socialist and you claim to be a Social Democrat. Chancers the both of you.

by Dermot Lacey Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:47

The facts are as I have outlined. If you do not want to accept that - fine by me. Councillors do have powers in relation to some aspects of Council affairs - however they do not have powers in relation to Waste Management and the fault for that lies in the peculiar combination of the ABT campaign and FF/PD's.

Th reality is that each years that passes Councilors from all Parties recognise the reality of the position I adopted in 2003. That is good for democracy and ultimately is good for Dublin and the people of Dublin.

by Ringsend Resident Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:51

"Th reality is that each years that passes Councilors from all Parties recognise the reality of the position I adopted in 2003. That is good for democracy and ultimately is good for Dublin and the people of Dublin."

No Dermot the reality is that the incinerator is coming and it is coming in the name of Dublin City Council. If you think that is good for democracy and ultimately good for the people of Dublin, more fool you.

by Dermot Lacey Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:58

I have no problem debating with any one who is honest. However you know that I did not say that. You also know that I have consistently opposed the Incinerator and clearlyt seem now to be using that issue just to score points - how disappointing and the fact that you will not use your real name even more so.

by Ringsend Resident Tue Jul 11, 2006 13:10

And you think that you are debating honestly. In your opinion the ABT are to blame for the imminent introduction of an incinerator in the area. Do you really think that is debating honestly? Do you think the local community will blame the ABT? Do you think other parts of Ireland where incinerators are to be built will blame the ABT? You are hiding behind a state decision to reduce the powers of local government and apportioining the blame elsewhere. Hardly honest.
As for not using my real name. It doesn't seem to bother you when your fan club (Dublin Exile) doesn't and if I remember correctly your first postings here were anonymous. Honesty and consistency cllr is a two way streeet.

by Dermot Lacey Tue Jul 11, 2006 13:46

I have never posted on Indymedia anonymously. I believe that a Public Rep should be up front in any such debates.

The fact remains that the power to determine All waste management issues was removed from Councilorrs directly arising from the ABT campaign.

by CCCP Tue Jul 11, 2006 14:00

This is a new one - so now the ABT are to blame for D. Laceys collaboration with FF/FG/PDs!!! From being previously dismissed as a far left outfit of a few misfits the campaign is now responsible for his betrayal of the people of Dubin!!! For a centre right careerist contimually posturing as a "social democrat" he certainly has a Stalinist trait for rewriting history to suit whatever fairytale version he believes in.

by Ringsend Resident Tue Jul 11, 2006 14:15

"I have never posted on Indymedia anonymously. I believe that a Public Rep should be up front in any such debates."

Sorry Dermot but I was hoping not to do this but I'm going to have to call you a liar on this. There are several threads from Nov/Dec 2004 where you used the alias 'yes voting leftie' and similar monikers. They are in the archives. You know what they say about liars and their memories or maybe you have forgotten.

"The fact remains that the power to determine All waste management issues was removed from Councilorrs directly arising from the ABT campaign."

Nonsense Dermot. It doesn't wash because as you know. Anybody living within the area of a planned incinerator knows that it was a state decision to disempower councillors. Nobody in country areas affected blames the ABT, not even McDowell. Just more blatant lies to hide your impotency.

by Sam Tue Jul 11, 2006 19:52

Hey Dermot, when you are making your submisson to An Bord Pleanala don't forget the financial suitability of the proposed operator, or the disgraceful record of incineraton in Herhof, or the fact that the biggest property guys in Dublin, meybe even in Ireland could not make one of these SOB machinese work

by Dermot Lacey Tue Jul 11, 2006 20:35

Sorry for not coming back to this until now.

I was at a meeting most of the afternoon. Yes Ringsend Resident. You are correct and I am wrong on that one. In the early days of my postings on Indymedia I actually thought that a nom de plumme (not sure if I hve spelled that correctly) was the rule/norm.

Once I discovered that it was not I immediately started using my own name.

and

Yes, I think there are new issues to be raised in relation to the incinerator and this morning I met with a particular expert who gave me some new information that I will avail of.

by Dermot Lacey Thu Jul 13, 2006 14:20

My view is that we do not want or need the proposed Poolbeg Incinerator. We need investment in recycling and redue measures. We need a state body - a bit like Bord Na Mona- that will be able to put in sufficient reso=urces over time to develop a real recycing industry and we need to introduce punitive tax measures against those who use uneccessary packaging etc.

by Bath Ave Thu Jul 13, 2006 15:13

Are you serious, Bord na Mona are up to their semi state necks in planning a super dump and possible incinerator in what was a raised bog, an area of outstanding natural beauty in the midlands...

by Dermot Lacey Thu Jul 13, 2006 15:25

I was not suggesting that Bord Na Mona should be the body in charge of recycling I was saying that a semi state body on the lines of BnM should be established to deal with this issue ona national and not for profit basis.

Secondly I have and will again put my money into the Anti Poolbeg Incinerator campaign and
Thirdly am more than happy yo use any media influence I have - which is very little - to highlight the campaign.

by SamuelD Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:06

The link to the Sunday Post story about the legal battle against Treasury Holdings (MBT builder Herhof) has expired. This one works:
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/07/09/story156...3.asp

by mother earth Tue Aug 22, 2006 18:07

Please stop the great push for recycling without asking the right questions. The top of the waste strategy is PREVENTION then REUSE. Implement these first and remember not all recycling techniques are good for the environment. We must be careful we don't create a need to produce products to feed a waste industry. Look at the product from start to finish and consider the depletion of the earth's resources and the energy needed to harvest these; process them; market them; and dispose(?) of them.

by M Cotton Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:25

'Recycling' is a term used very loosely by government waste policy makers. In a lot of instances it means only that the consumer has responsibility for separating and delivering to recycling centres but what happens after that is another question entirely. A lot the stuff religiously bagged up by well-meaning citizens doesnt get recycled at all.

Incineration is not a solution to waste. It is a profit-making enterprise and it needs more, not less, waste in order to stay in business. Reps from companies like Indaver Ireland are advising government on waste policy. They can and do dictate what happens to our waste and there are examples of them preventing businesses adpoting environmentally friendly practices because it would mean a reduction in income for them. How sick is that? Everythig the government is doing with incineration is contrary to National Waste Management Strategy.

We will have to import waste to make incineration viable thereby polluting and endangering our children's health.

Advisers to the WHO have described incinerators as 'fine particulate generators'. Fine particulates which are the most deadly of all the byproducts from incineration, cannot be filtered out of the atmosphere from the incineration process. They go deep into the lungs. Its criminal that anyone would even consider locating an incinerator in or near highly populated areas.

Incineration is not an alternative to land-fill - something like 40% of what is burned is left over in the form of highly toxic ash and that is mostly put into, guess what, landfill. So we are worse off than ever. Because the toxins leak into the soil and water table plus you have the air pollution from the burning itself. The only people home free are the burners with fat profits in their bank accounts andhouses located well away from the places they pollute. And smart-arse politicians who dont give a shit about anything except keeping their corporate paymasters happy.

The people of Cork Waterford Dublin etc should unite nationally to oppose filthy incinerators. The government are treating people with its customary condescension and arrogance where waste is concerned. This solution is being railroaded through much like everything else they are doing from gas piplelines and motorways to electricy pylons and the infrastructure bill.

Here is a link to a presentation by solicitor Joe Noonan on what happened to the legal challenge by CHASE to incinerators in Cork - well worth reading:

http://www.chaseireland.org/Documents/Law_Conference_Pa...n.pdf