McDowell Attacked by Ancient Order of Hibernians and Mother and Child

by Aidan Kennedy - Progressive Democrats Mon May 29, 2006 14:54

I support my party colleague and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Michael Mc Dowell T.D, and more importantly we both support equality regardless of a persons gender or sexual preference.

by Jim Mon May 29, 2006 15:04

"An economy like ours demands inequality" - Michael McDowell (May2004)

To suggest that the PDs stand for equality is a bit of a joke. This is the same party that launched the racist citizenship referendum and whose leader Mary Harney attacked single mothers. Not to mention that the PDs espouse right wing neo-liberal policies that further deepen inequality in our communities. They might make noises about same sex marriage - but they have delivered nothing.

by Anon Mon May 29, 2006 15:08

Enemy of an enemy is not a friend. I think that McDowell's presence at that meeting is somewhat irrelevant. These AOH boot-boys were attacking a gay rights meeting. They are homophobes that should be opposed by all leftists. The AOH are also a racist nationalist bigoted anti-protestant organisation. They want a Ireland with the Catholic Church in charge. They want an Ireland were all people will be white and Catholic. The AOH have a history of breaking up meetings of anything that even hints of progressiveness. BTW I don't think McDowell can now be held up as some kind of progressive pro-gay rights minister just because he was shouted at by a few AOH nub-nuts.

by anti-Mcdowell Mon May 29, 2006 15:32

I don't support their anti-gay stance but anybody who stands up to McDowell should be supported.
If we stand up for McDowell even if he is pro-gay then we shoot ourselves in the foot.

by pat c Mon May 29, 2006 15:38

"I don't support their anti-gay stance but anybody who stands up to McDowell should be supported."

no they shouild not. would you support the ICP (but not their racist stance) if they stood up to McDowell saying he was too soft om immigration?

The people who attacked McDowell were the older branch of Youth Defence, the Mother & Child campaign. Justin Barrett, Gerry Geough and Sean o Domhnaill have been forming new branchs of the AOH. This is theiir first outing.

These people are racists, homophobes and misogynists.

by Non Lefty Mon May 29, 2006 16:56

I think this business of attacking Michael McDowell everywhere he goes is stupid. The fact of the matter is that McDowell is the only honest politician who gives a straight answer to everythiing. The problem is, is that he is far to honest about things, and often puts his foot in it. He has deblt with many things well, and his proposals to deal with criminals (i.e ASBOS etc) will be effective.

He had to deal with the situation in St Patrick Cathedral in the way that he did, because Ireland could not set thje dangerous precedent, that would be set if the Government had caved into the demands. If the government had given in. people who ambushed buildings, and threatened to starve themselves would all have to be given asylum, and this would effectively lead to open borders, which woud mean we would have to take in every "economioc migrate" the world would have to offer. This of course is the downside to open borders.

At the meeting McDowell is preaching equality , and certain members of the left (on this thread) are more willing to side with the lies of groups like Youth Defence and the AOH and their scumbag leaders like Barrett/ O'Domhnaill/ Ni Chonaill etc, than agree that in this case MCDowell was very much in the right here.

The "racist referendum" of 2004 (which i voted against), was in fact not racist at all. I think its ridiculous to think that it was. The fact of the matter is that international women were getting off aeroplanes in Dublin, and going directly to the hospital and having their babies in the same day. This calls into question their love for the baby at all, as given that they just travelled directly before the birth, one could contend that they were simply seeking asylum, and cared litlle for the baby, which was simply a ticket to asylum.

Furthermore, the Progressive Democrats intrduced the minimum wage act in 2000, which gave the Irish people a proper minimum wage, which was set at the highest rate in europe. To say thattheir Neo Liberal tactics have been unsuccessful, i mean look at the country in 2006. Its in a far better shape than it was under a governemt incolving the Labour Party. The creation of the PD'S forced Finna Fail to combine Fiscal rectitude with an increase in spending, and this forced Finna Fail into the Social Partnenership, which has proved beneficial for all. If there was no such thing as the Social Partnership, we would have groups like SIPTU running the country, and i think we all know what that would do.

So i think it is wrong to say that MCdOWELL and the PD'S are not interested in equality. They have done much to improved equality and industrial relations in the country. When you believe in things like Same Sex Unions etc, you should be thankful that people lioke McDowellon the right are doing something to try and rectify the situation. Instead of this, the dogmatism which is inherent in the left shines through, as many are willing to jump behind the Christian Right, instead of their "enemy" Michael McDowell

by Tom Paine Mon May 29, 2006 17:38

McDowell is not 'honest'. Last week in the Dail he ranted and raved at Aongus O'Snodaigh TD about 'narco terrorists" in Colombia, and previously wanted the Colombia Three to be sent back to face one of the most corrupt judicial systems in the world (one in which a superior court can reverse a lower one, by finding defendants guilty without seeing or hearing evidence). McDowell knows that the political and military system there is corrupt, that the military have been tied into drug supply and smuggling, as well as wholesale assassination. Yet he accuses FARC of being 'narco terrorists', when anyone who studies the place knows that peasants driven off their land by big neo-fascist farmers and their military henchmen, grow a coca crop as the only viable crop in the circumstances. FARC imposes a tax on peasant produce, of which the Coca crop is one. McDowell knows this, yet he rants for Ireland - or that small part of it reactionaries like him populate, but whose whole expanse they claim for themselves.

McDowell is a modern reactionary mouth and a waster. The Youth Defence turned AOH infiltrators are a reactionary throwback. Someone should look them in a room with copies of the Constitution to fling at each other.

McDowell is a dishonest opportunist who is a slave to police gossip and so-called ‘intelligence’. He divulged the contents of a confidential police file to a US citizen in his campaign against Frank Connolly and the Centre for Public Enquiry. How did McDowell get the right to read such material and dispense with it as he sees fit? He changed the law to enable him to do so. McDowell does not put his foot in his own mouth, he kicks due process, civil rights and liberties in the teeth.

by fergal Mon May 29, 2006 17:45

"I don't think McDowell can now be held up as some kind of progressive pro-gay rights minister just because he was shouted at by a few AOH nub-nuts."

Dead right he can't - if McDowell was actually interested in Equality for gay couples - he would be advocating gay marraige not second class civil partnerships

If these people are enemies of progression and of a civilised society they should not under any circumstances be supported - I mean McDowell but these people are worse

Harry Rea was involved too

by Lefty Tue May 30, 2006 21:23

"the dogmatism which is inherent in the left shines through, as many are willing to jump behind the Christian Right"

Who? Who are these imaginary lefties "willing to jump behind the christian right"? There's one anonymous poster on this thread called "anti-McDowell" who could be anyone. For all we know, McDowell himself put it up to make the lefties look stupid (we know for a fact that he IS that petty, and we know he reads indymedia). Pat C answered his ridiculous argument, saving the rest of us the trouble, and he hasn't been back. So your argument, such as it is, falls apart immediately. Hard luck, try harder next time

by Non Lefty Wed May 31, 2006 12:35

Now that is the most suspicious argument ever put forward

by Lefty Wed May 31, 2006 12:38

No I'm afraid it isn't. That's not even a legitimate opinion, you're just wrong.

by moo-cow Wed May 31, 2006 16:25

I think for the left this really had no down side ...I mean McDowell got a constitution thrown at him which must have amused a lot of lefties round the country and right wing groups get all the blame and look fairly ridiculous.
So to summarise that puts us up one good dose of laughter and down nothing at all.

by pat c Wed May 31, 2006 16:28

The Homophobes also abused and threatened the delegates. I think thats a downside.

by Non Lefty Wed May 31, 2006 17:35

When will you lefties ever agree that all opinions are legitimate, just some you dont agree with. One comment, even under a pseudoname is good enough for me. Can you prove that McDowell uses or even views indymedia, imean prove it, and when you do i will but you a Coca Cola or something. Oh yeah I forgot, you lefties think that Coca Cola is some kind of evil corporation, which killed several colombian workers

by pat c Wed May 31, 2006 17:38

McDowell certainly views Indymedia, he even cites it in the Dáil. Remember his run in with John Gormley about be-sandalled rioters?

by Peter Prendergast Wed May 31, 2006 18:33

Could it be that 'non lefty' is Michael McDowell?

Get back to work Michael..... or on second thoughts, on the basis that you will do less damage yarracking here than in the department reading all those police files you like to rifle through, stay put.

by non lefty Wed May 31, 2006 18:55

In fairness, Michael's opinion of the Green Party and John Gormley is not too far from the truth. I mean look at the Green Party's attempts at being serious this year. 5,000 houses, yeah sure. I think its time the Greens just go back to cutting grass and pressurising for more plastic can bins, than trying to stand as a legitimate political party. Seargent should really remove his head from his ass, and leave politics to the big boys, ie McDowell/ Bertie/ Rabbitte/Higgins/Kenny etc

by Peter Prendergast Wed May 31, 2006 19:46

'Non lefty' refuses to deny that he is Michael McDowell.

On that basis.........

by Lefty Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:31

"One comment, even under a pseudoname is good enough for me."

He has to be McDowell! Those standards of proof don't exist anywhere else in the world (except maybe North Korea and Iran). I was just taking the piss, but we've flushed the bastard out

by SH Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:44

"the fact of the matter is that McDowell is the only honest politician who gives a straight answer to everythiing. The problem is, is that he is far to honest about things, and often puts his foot in it"

I don't think I have seen a more ridiculous comment on the web anywhere. McDowell is a complete liar and consistently contradicts himself. He never provides any proof for his outlandish claims, because he doesn't have any. He never repeats certain claims outside of dail privilege so that he can't be sued. He told Daily Ireland that he would see them in court only to refuse to turn up when the court case happened. The man is an absolute liar, a danger to democracy and only the most idiotic sycophantic journalist or moronic PD member believes a word he says.

by Non Lefty Thu Jun 01, 2006 14:33

I am not Michael McDowell. I can vouch for that. But he is no lier

by Peter Predergast Thu Jun 01, 2006 16:46

I am not entirely convinced, non lefty.

It may be that McDowell is out of sorts or not himself today, given the mess he made since it was announced that the Supreme Court struck down the 1935 statutory rape law. He has already admitted to not being in a "comfortable position".

Michael McDowell believes in the politics of the 'big lie' - it is a lesson learned from Joseph Goebbels. The bigger the whopper, the more outrageous the allegation and the more it is accompanied by rhetorical foot stamping and denunciations the more likely it is that that timid liberals will cower in their boxes.

It is a neat trick – 4% telling 96% how to behave. That’s capitalist democracy for you.

Michel McDowell: Not himself at all at all

by No Lefty : Not McDowell Thu Jun 01, 2006 18:59

Apologies, the only Irish politician who has anything to do with Gobbles is Mr Bruton, I said so myself. If thats who i really am.

by Peter Prendergast Thu Jun 01, 2006 19:47

First of all, 'Mr Gobbels' sounds like a turkey and, if you remember, McDowell withdrew the allegation against Blueshirt Richard Bruton when he belatedly realised he had been talking about himself all along.

The suspicions deepen.

by pat c Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:09

One of the AOH nutjobs, goes by the name of Brendan, who harassed and threatened the audience at this event also tried to disrupt the "Where next for Republicans?" meeting the night before. He was thrown out of that meeting.

by stardust tradgey researcher - none Thu Apr 12, 2007 01:14

I had a meeting with the dept of justice many times over the past five years, Mr McDowell knows me and the secretary general of the dept of justice Mr Awlyard. They are two liars and burcrates. Mr McDowell knows it is wrong to lie about a gross miss carriage of justice. BY telling families they do not have new evidence, who gave him this power? I told him it is new evidence and was asked to a meeting with the secretary general of justice. He told these families they can go home that the stardust tribunal will never be opened up, get over the loss of your loved ones 48 in total and an unborn 26 week old baby.

Do these two people think they are going to get away with this? I believe they do. Hopefully on polling day you will remember thi passage and think of that gross miscarriage of justice? before you tick the box ask yourself would you allow this treatment for your brother, sister, mother, father, son or daughter. Vote smartly and give McDowell the message, that he has no right to interfer with justice and he should look in the dictionary to get the real meaning for the word equality.

I can prove the evidence and that McDowell is a liar.