Dublin CIVIL LIBERTIES Rally Pictures

by Ollie - Katalyzer Fri Jul 12, 2002 01:58

As it happens, I'm not anti-union, and I think that 'partnership' is bullshit. We were told to not rock the boat during the celtic tiger, and now we're being told to tighten our belts! Teachers, nurses, bus and train drivers were all treated disgracefully in the 'boom years'. The PPF is a farce. Its just a government stalling tactic, and the unions fell for it. So I'm on Mick and Eugune's side..and I suppose yours too...

I see the changes we need coming in different forms, and I don't see the debate in 'ev vs rev' terms. To crudely compress my ideas into a soundbite, the evolution needed will encompass revolutionary change. And ways of approaching life (eg what you buy into with your money and lifestyle decisions) are just as important in this process as political parties and unions, imo. Hegemony encompasses both form and content. And just to cause more confusion, I'll have to add that I'm not too sure about the word 'evolution' either, ach sin sceal eile ;-)

by A Genuine trade union and left activist - SIPTU Fightback Thu Jul 11, 2002 00:26

Ollie - katalyzer you shouldn't be so negative and pessimistic about the Left and trade union movements in Ireland. Yes we all have to ask the blunt question why the large protest wave caught the Greens and Sinn Fein not the Socialist Party or the Workers Party? I predicted before the recent election that Sinn Fein and the Green Party would pick up a lot of votes with policies that on the outside looked very radical and my assesment was largely correct. I mean Sinn Fein even pretended to be Socialist and radical. Its quite clear that SF were much better placed to pick up on a certain amount of working class discontent and vice versa for the Green Party with the Middle Class protest vote, quite frankly there wasn't a lot that anybody on the Left could do about it. However both Sinn Fein's and the Green Party's lies about pretending to be radical will be found out on the likes of the bin tax and this does present those of us on the genuine Left with a golden opportunity to build a very substantial base especially among the Working Class, if not in the next election then certainly in following elections.

I certainly wouldn't view the SWP as a sizeable force on the Irish Left. Let's remember that in the recent General Election that the SWP got an average of three hundred and something votes per candidate and came fifth on the Irish left behind the Workers Party, Seamus Healy and Finian McGrath? Sixth if you count Tony Gregory, though I wouldn't. Again that was entirely predictable.

There's also the forthcoming SIPTU election that will give us ordinary, grassroots, rank and file SIPTU members our chance to express their intense anger at the sell-out, 'partnership' approach of the Geraghty dictatorship (That's if we ever get a free and fair ballot in SIPTU). I tell you there's a better chance of it snowing in the Canaries than that ever happening in SIPTU. Certainly as long as the hated , totally discredited Geraghty mafia mob klan have such an iron fist stranglehold over our union.

Genuine Left Wing and Anarchist organisations such as the Workers Solidarity Movement, the Workers Party, the Independent Socialist Network and the Socialist Party will be making the Nice Treaty their main priority (along with the Bin Tax) in the South and they will be working with others on the Left on the issue.

by Ordinary worker - The Cross Union Reinstate Mick O'Reilly Campaign Wed Jul 10, 2002 20:29

Ollie - katalyzer FYI I was at the reinstate Mick O'Reilly and Eugene McGlone meeting in Wynn's hotel last Thursday and the main meeting room was full. It was standing room only for some. I ssems to me that you don't like trade unions and I'd say you're probably a reformist evoluntary yourself. Probably really safe to say that you weren't at the meeting last Thursday and quite frankly you probably had no interest in going either. Far from being too 'militant' being the problem with union membership I contend that it's being too tame and part of the 'partnership' approach that has cost the unions dearly. Many workers are saying what's the point of being in a union anyway when the union bosses go in negotiate these 'partnerships' that are just straitjackets that restrict pay rises and the right to strike? Just look at what's happened to the ATGWU since all this sh**e with Mick and Eugene started last year. Since the right wing coup d'etat by Ben Kearney and John Bolger last Summer the ATGWU has been haemorrhaging members left, right and centre, north and south, east and west, whereas when Mick O'Reilly was at the helm in the ATGWU, membership levels were stable or even grew slightly from year to year. As regards using the internet for free I'm writing this message from home, so my internet usage does cost me and costs me bloody dear with Eircom's exorbitant call charges and crap, brutally slow service.

by Ollie - katalyzer Wed Jul 10, 2002 03:54

There has to be some kind of happy medium between the drudgery of megaphone speeches by right-on but under-inspired middle-aged men and the colourful imaginative carnival types. The hard (lads of the hard) left may manage to convince themselves that they are building a working class movement, but they have in fact never been in a worse state. (Unless you include SF's performance in the last election as a 'hard left' victory, which I don't, btw). They need to bicker less at imagination: a few quick posts by people with daily , usually free, internet access ain't the revolution....union membership is falling lads, remember?
And what's wrong with someone on indymedia posting 'evolution not revolution' ? Do you realise how distinctly out of sync the word revolution is with most people's daily lives ...even the working classes' daily lives?
And I'm not either expressing a preference for either the ev or the rev, btw ,I just get astounded at the delusional cloud cuckoo land people can build up into some sort of reality now and zen....

by OK - SY Mon Jul 08, 2002 16:57

How can someone call themselves anti-capitalist and support the sacking of Mick O'Reilly and Eugene McClone? How can someone call themselves anti-capitalist when they defend and support trade union bureaucrats unconditionally? How can someone defend civil liberties and then support the sacking of left-wing trade union activists.

A major problem with some people in the anti-capitalist movement is their remoteness from the struggle of the trade union left. For many in the anti-capitalist movement workers are just another group. Workers are the only people that can overcome capitalism and transform society.

by Nora Geraghty - Globalise Resistance Mon Jul 08, 2002 14:14

I disagree with the notion that street theatre has no place in serious debate. Although Public Order Man may seem frivolous, and certainly there should have been other pictures, there was the beginnings of a very good debate at the rally. The role of the arts has been very important in worker's movements world-wide and throughout history. Woody Guthrie did as much for the unions of his day as the union organisers of the time, and the history of any movement is recorded in song, poetry and theatre. I know that a lot of the people who read this newswire are very serious about politics, but the same cannot be said for the people wandering idly by a demonstration and maybe stopping to see what's going on. Public Order Man provided a bit of entertainment for those who may feel oppressed by speeches and rhetoric and, at the very least, made the police (slinking around the edges) feel like fools. The issues involved affect everybody who lives under this system, on the RTS rally many of those attacked were ordinary people going about their business who just happened to get caught up in it. If we are going to pose serious opposition to this ugly little piece of legislation we need the support of all those who may be affected by it. What better way to get the public's attention than acting out a scenario where innocent people are summarily arrested for speaking in public?

by SK - SP/SY Mon Jul 08, 2002 11:35

The attacks on Nora Geraghty in this newswire are disgraceful, she cannot be blamed on actions that relatives of hers did or didnt do. Likewise This report wasn't about Geraghty and O'Reilly. It was about the rally last saturday which in my opinion was a farce.further more such comments as:

"We're not going to forget this and you and the rest of the low life vermin who conspired to get rid of Mick and Eugene will suffer severely."

is simply not on. Thats a blatent threat. I disagree with the way Eugene and Mick were handled. It was disgraceful. But did Nora have anything to do with it???? No. So please leave it off.

Please get the real issues discussed, and argue about how anyone could cause such a farce of "opposition" to the public order act by dressing up like a superhero, and acting like street theatre on grafton street in the central bank. I dont think its really going to get Michael (der fruher) McDowells attention.

What should be happening is a discussion to ordinary workers and youth about the Public Order act and how we feel its being used against us, thus combining it with the transitional approach.

The approach of "Street Theatre" although at times remotely entertaining serves no real purpose but to entertain. It achieves no practical political goals.... Thus by taking this approcah we wont actually change or remove the public order act because people for one won't take us seriously and 2 wont know what we are talking about.

by Sean Mon Jul 08, 2002 00:25

I don't have to engage in name calling in order to make my point of view on any issue clear, so I hope you were not referring to me in your last comment. It is well known among trade union activists in Ireland that Mick and Eugene were shafted by a combination of "union leaders" in Ireland and Britain along with the respective "governments" because of their opposition to "partnership". I never said that you were in any way responsible, I merely expressed surprise that you were apparently unaware of this.

by Attendee at O'Reilly / McGlone meeting Mon Jul 08, 2002 00:11

Nora, you shouldn't be hounded on the newswire for what anybody else did or didn't do. But you also shouldn't really enter into this debate.

It was put into the public domain at the meeting in Wynn's that Des Geraghty asked John Freeman (previous regional secretary of ATGWU) how he could contact Bill Morris (general secretary of TGWU and the guy who sacked Mick and Eugene) to deal with Mick O'Reilly.

On RTE television, Des told Mick O'Reilly that he would not talk to ILDA until they stopped picketing him - which was a strange position for a trade union leader to take regarding people he claimed were his members.

Overall, this is a pretty dirty story and reveals a lot about the state of our unions - but to be honest should not be used to attack those not directly involved.

by Nora Geraghty - Globalise Resistace Sun Jul 07, 2002 21:37

Just in case there are any real people reading this who might be taking this guy seriously, Des Geraghtys involvement in this was that when the ATGWU made it clear that they were going to sack these two, he phoned up the leaders in England to intervene on their behalf, he asked them not to do it, but they weren't under any obligation to listen to him and they didn't. That's all I know about it, and I think anyone who makes such vicious attacks on a total stranger because of something they think her father did is pretty sick.

by Sean Sun Jul 07, 2002 20:48

You might not have but Daddy sure as hell did, were you not aware of that???

by Nora Geraghty - Globalise Resistance Sun Jul 07, 2002 20:14

Mick O'Reily? Eugene McGlone? Low life vermin? What the hell are you talking about? Where did you get the idea that I have anything to do with any of that? I've never even met them! I hope they get reinstated, some of the people I respect seem to have a lot of time for them. I hate to qualify your remarks with a reply since you're obviously pretty sick, but I'd like to know why you don't put your name on any of your sick little rants, or show up at our meetings and try to explain exactly what the hell you have against me.

by Des Sun Jul 07, 2002 18:18

These masterminds would be better off applying for jobs as children's entertainers, a threat to the capitalist system, what a sick joke.

by Trotskyist Sun Jul 07, 2002 12:35

Public order man... What? how are ordinary people going to influenced by a guy dressing up in spandex and looking like a fool.

Likewise chants of evolution not revolution bring into perspective and indeed raise many questions about certain left wing groups within the rally.

by Mr.X Sun Jul 07, 2002 12:18

What.... Yeah lets keep the capitalist system, and evolve it through reform and further exploitation of workers and youth. Fucks sake boys grow up.

Society needs an alternative not more capitalism.

by Ordinary worker - Reinstate Mick O'Reilly and Eugene McGlone now or else Sun Jul 07, 2002 02:20

What about Mick O'Reilly and Eugene McGlone's civil rights' Nora? I haven't heard you speaking up for them Nora. Or would it have something to do with the fact that your da was one of the main players in shafting Mick O'Reilly and Eugene McClone. We're not going to forget this and you and the rest of the low life vermin who conspired to get rid of Mick and Eugene will suffer severely.

by me again - Public Orderman Sat Jul 06, 2002 22:26

PICTURES Public Order Man attacks our friendly neighborhood anarchist

GR Civil Liberties - People have the right to protest NU Declaration of Human Rights...

GR Civil Liberties - Clampdown on Civil Rights...important we stand up for our rights...new age of barbarism...I was beaten by 3 men who put me in a van and took me to jail...join us...we will achieve victory...

FAT CATS - Ansbacker

RTS - Evolution Not Revolution...Government is an illusion...Green Anarchists and the SWP...Socialist Workers Party Stink...We need to have fun...

GR RTS - I was Arrested...You have to organize, you have to try to over through them, its called revolution, and if we don’t do it soon enough they will destroy the planet...I Love selling the Socialist Worker...we should make this a regular, speakers corner...getting out in the streets does change the world...

PUBLIC ORDER MAN - Party 2004...

http://uk.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/rtsgrcivilliberties.wma

http://uk.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/rtscivilliberties.wma

http://uk.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/publicorderman.wma

http://uk.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/grcivilliberties.wma

http://uk.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/fatcats.wma

http://uk.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/rtscivilliberties.wma