EU Population: Reaching the point of terminal decline?

by Freya Mon Apr 10, 2006 01:45

As I indicated earlier, some couples do not feel the need to perpetuate the species. When 9 year olds appear before a judge for suspected theft/mugging of two teenagers and when the child’s own father was unsure at to the child’s actual date of birth. When young girls walk into a garage and steal money from an upstairs store-room. When children behave in such a manner perhaps it is better if humanity does cease to exist.

Rather than complaining about the reduction in the birth rate we would be better served ensuring that those children who are born behave in a manner which benefits humanity and this planet, our home. Afterall, Europe is bigger than the EU.

Some couples (same-sex and not) do not have the craving to bring another life into such a world. That is their decision and not yours nor mine!

by Coillte, and proud of it! Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:36

Freya, the following is taken from the Editorial in the Mayo Association Yearbook 2002
"Imagine that you are underage; you win the lotto! The first thing that you buy, is a top of the range purpose built MG Sports car, the most beautiful car in the world in your eyes, a unique car and it belongs to you. Alas, you can’t take it out on the road. So you park it in a newly built garage. Everyday you go into the garage and play with all the car gadgets; the radio, CD drive, put back the Sun Roof, sit behind the wheel, turn on the engine, rev it up, close your eyes and drive along the world’s favourite routes e.g. Rivera. Then one day having got your Driver’s License, you open the garage door, hop into the car, turn on the engine, put the gear into first, you hear a big chuck, the car won’t move! What could be the problem: no more petrol in the tank, pipes blocked, the crank shack seized up from under-use? Unfortunately, the car was nor built to be left in a garage. Or just maybe you failed to read the small print that was unique to this special car. It stated that the car comes filled with a unique brand of irreplaceable petrol. The car will only function properly if it is driven the first twenty miles from the top 10% of this petrol. The rest of the petrol is useless if this condition is not adhered to!

One must shudder for what can happen to our playful young men and women when they finally decide that they wish to have children; often the plumbing no longer works because up to now, the follow through has been missing! There is a reason for the drop in the birth rate and modern society needs to quickly wake up and ask serious questions about its lifestyle!"

Also, you would have come across a young boy or girl who may have been a promising footballer or runner in his/her teens. Everybody would have penciled him/her in as representing his county or country someday. Then to everybody’s surprise, he/she has lost interest when he/she is supposed to be in his/her athletic prime. Why?

• Too much adulation when he/she was young and not be able to emotionally carry the expectation that was been imposed on him/her. Or
• Possibly, he/she could injure his/her knee or some other part of the anatomy at a young age, resulting in the injury never fully healing.

Sexual intercourse requires the use of physical parts of the anatomy and sets in motion a highly complicated set of reactions, both physical and emotional. Similar to any other part of the body they must be respected and not be abused.

by Freya Wed Apr 05, 2006 22:10

Has anyone even considered the fact than some women and men do not like children and have no intension of ever having any. Yes, contraceptives help but so does the continuous decline in male fertility.
Some UK representatives have already made suggestions that the retirement age be increased. Why not ask our aged working population, who among them does actually want to retire at 65 to a lifetime of pathetic afternoon TV shows in winter and golf in summer? Work would be an excellent alternative. Plus after 65 tax liability reduces quite a bit.

by Rev. Bones Mon Apr 03, 2006 18:09

Church of Euthanasia

The One Commandment:
"Thou shalt not procreate"

The Four Pillars:
suicide · abortion
cannibalism · sodomy

Human Population Today:
6,514,195,317

SAVE THE PLANET
KILL YOURSELF

by Mike Novack Mon Apr 03, 2006 02:57

Plato -- at least you believe in numbers and don't simply repeat mantras like "always enough for need"

But you are wrong and those telling you "an acre of good land/preson" are right.

Let's just stick to one mistake and leave it to you to find out all about all the others yourself. The one I will explain to you is kind of personal. I can remember only too well being told by fellow commune members in the 60's that I lacked faith when I objected that the several 100# of rice would NOT see us through a Vermont winter.

A kilo of rice might be about 4000 Cal (It's going to be much over that because none of the grains are over 120 Cal/ounce -- as a backpacker I know calories per ounce for most common food stuffs)

A human adult doing physical labor requires about 2000 Cal/day That's not big hulking 100 kg me humping a pack through the mountains -- I need 3-4000 Cal/day for that, but one of those wirey human adults used to gettting by on near starvation rations. Plato, look it up if you don't believe me.

So that 9 Kg of rice is good for less than 3 weeks, not a year. And adding water to cook the rice does not add calories!

OK --- Now LOOK at your other calculations and maybe learn something about growing food. This being the Irish site, use the land around you. Because of position in the Gulf Stream, a warmer wetter climate than Holland/Belgium. But you aren't going to grow rice in Ireland (let alone two crops). That's OK because maize or potatoes will do as well for high yields. But on what percentage of the ground. It's NOT all nice tillable fields, even in Ireland where the percentage of "good" land is relatively high compared to most of the rest of Europe and rainfall adequate everywhere. Figure maybe 10% of the toal area would produce high yields. The rest isn't wasted because there, on land too rough and steep for grain crops you can grow the legumes that must be composted to replace the Nitrogen used by the high yield crops (of course you can first process it through a ruminent's gut with little loss and so eat SOME meat).

The reality is that almost certainly we humans will NOTmanage to reduce our population "by attrition" to a level sustainable once the fossil fuel and fossil water

by Coillte, and proud of it! Fri Mar 31, 2006 13:58

Of the sexes, women are generally the more skilful, whether it is working in an office, teaching, problem solving, medical area, counselling etc. Their skills have been developed from aeons of caring for children, family etc. The males generally provided the upkeep of the environment, by providing shelter, food etc; these chores did not normally demand any great feats of creativity, because they dealt with constants. Woman’s environment was changing from the day that she gave birth as amply demonstrated in the above article.
Capitalism is a great system, but is race self destruction in the present social environment in the western world. Leaders (political and economic) today appear to have no scruples. They exploit the fact that our young can handily get their hands on contraceptives, aptly demonstrated by the other letters on this thread. They can get all these women to work in factories, banks, offices etc and make huge profits from their skills. This is why mainland Europe had their Celtic Tiger economies in the 1960-1980s. This is why Ireland is now booming. Contrary to what is stated in the head article, the Irish Fertility Rate is estimated to be 1.87. See CIA website http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ei.html.
Ireland appears to be having the fastest drop in birth rate of any other western nation. There are close to 250,000 less children under twenty years of age today than in the early 1980s. You can get a mortgage of €100,000 to €250,000 by not having that second child. Couples on €60,000 each per annum can’t afford to have children. There were 70% more births per head of population in the former EU15 in the Sixties than to day, which translate itself into 40,000,000 less young people. This is not stated official policy, but it is what is happening! So, we are playing into the hands of unscrupulous pirates who will move on with their financial funds to the next theatre of women exploitation when the workers get too old. Mainland Europe is now a no-go area, except for Irish “dumb dumbs” buying up property. What will be the next area for women exploitation? Look for the educated young workforce; religion will be demeaned and terrorism problems will be overcome!
Life is being allowed to be a huge pyramid scheme. The generation at the bottom will suffer i.e. our present workers in their twenties to thirties age bracket will gradually see their retirement benefits cut back because of the aging of our society giving rise to the exploitation of the elderly. Why is it so impossible for us to strike a happy medium as to social policy? Knowledge to do better is there; but we happily ignore it. Our ability to use reason for the betterment of society in the long term is being supplanted by the enjoyment of material possessions in the short term. This writer is very sorrowful with the poverty of thought in modern Gaelic Ireland. It is no great achievement for us to have a vibrant economy based on a falling birth rate; it is a downright embarrassment!

by Ron Jeremy Thu Mar 30, 2006 20:36

Women love me so I can love them back. The birth rate is falling? I can help.
If Genghis Khan and Niall of Nine Hostages could do it so can I!

by eva gore booth Thu Mar 30, 2006 20:18

look to rôle models for inspiration.
Take Britney Spears as an example.
Career woman, yet a loving and young mother.
She's not afraid to change a nappy / diaper, lose a little sleep, spend three years smelling of puke and cheesy shite. No. She can afford a nanny.

Get the point?

You can't afford a nanny (even a precarious lowly paid eastern european worker type)
You don't deserve to breed.

britney spears with future US senator

by MacMalthus Thu Mar 30, 2006 18:01

People predicting that the retirement age will have to be raised because of the lack of young people tend to omit one important fact. Over time productivity (output per person) steadily increases due to improved technology, organisation etc. (Russia is exceptional in recent years in that its productivity fell in the 90s without either a famine or a major war but in the long and even medium term it will get richer too.)

Ever fewer people, in other words, are required to produce wealth. More information at http://www.cepr.net/err/2006_01_03.htm ("Declining Population In Japan")

(For the sake of the argument I am not taking into account two rather large elephants in the room: peak oil and global warming.)

by Plato Thu Mar 30, 2006 15:03

Terrence the reason these people are impoverished is because they are denied access to the technology and resources to improve their lives.
Technologies such as hydrogen fuel cells are suppressed , de-salinisation of deserts could be achieved using solar and wave technologies henceforth.
Over Population is a Myth, and I do not thin Wild Species are more important than Human Beings.
granted it is Noble to save the species, but Mankind if he cleverly and charitably spread these technologies could live in Unison with Nature.

by Terence Thu Mar 30, 2006 14:36

>Eco Footprints you say. Well that doesnt worry me.

I'm afraid that Eco Footprints is everything. It's all about living in a sustainable way such that one does not reduce the carrying capacity of the Earth. Besides the rest of life on this planet has a right to exist. Reducing the entire land area of the planet completely to human needs whether that be food farms or solar farms is a bad idea and is certainly not sustainable.

I guess we differ on the politics somewhere. You seem to be suggesting there's lots more room for a few more billion. Well there's already a few billion living improvished lives in the squalor of shanties in mega cities all over the world today. Lets change politics so that the lives of these people can be improved, not add to the problem.

by Tank Girl Thu Mar 30, 2006 14:00

I have seen these types of rants from you before. Its basically primary school economics you are peddling. Going on your arguments then all income tax and company tax is oppressive and should be abolished for entrepeneurs. This would encourage investment and spending etc etc

You sly old Supply Sider you.

I think if the ordinary voters of Europe were given a choice bteween working old folk to death and increasing taxation then they would choose to tax the rich.

by Plato Thu Mar 30, 2006 13:55

Well Terence if you read I said 18kilos per person,
and no the people would not starve as this 18k turns to about 45 when you add water to cook the rise.
So lets agree on fucking France.
the whole population of the world could fit in their and feed itself. And thats a Fact.
France is not even 1% of the land surface of this planet.
Eco Footprints you say. Well that doesnt worry me.
We have solar energy, desalinisation and many more marvellous technologies.
Overpopulation is a Myth, propogated by the Elites because they are getting fearful that if there is too many of us we are harder to control and keep in bondage.
Wake up man and stop advocating theories that in the end will fulfil your own destruction.
P.s. do you agree with "forced abortins" in China,? Mass Sterilisations in Vietnam supported by the WHO?
Bet you never hear of this.
Its ethically wrong, we are Human beings not to be culled like sheep.
The Geen Agenda is being used as an excuse to Cull masses of the people and blame it on "over-population".

by iosaf Wed Mar 29, 2006 22:47

I am loathe to even touch this subject. But Kathy with her usual style seems to have done it & done it well. I am loath to touch "european or global population" because it suggests we have clear ideas on what or who europeans or the world's population are. Pretty soon afterwards come notions of "continental demographics".
Often when I am loathe to touch a subject, I fall back on autobiographical reference or sentimental memory. Here goes... ( no-one makes you read my comments skip it if you want )

The last nights I spent in London before going into my "exile" in Barcelona at the turn of the century : were filled with drama, pain, suffering, loss, melancholy, desperation, hesitation and the strangest conversations.
One of those was with an Afrikaan skipper who was visiting his son, who in his honour cooked him supper, and i too was on the dinner party list, it was to be my "last supper". The son had been arrested and had served time for anti-globalisation protests and before had done the de rigeour sleep out at his embassy to protest Apartheid. Like father like son, is not an axiom. The skipper dad tried to entertain us with stories about his job and ship, peppered with words that don't get published on either indymedia or any respectable media outlet. His ship was an essential part of a fuel pipeline construction across the Caspian Sea. Ah yes!! the pipelines that give us the gas and oil. That sea as many might know from schooldays is the largest inland body of "fresh water" on the planet. It is also, as of a decade _dead_. Thanks to unchecked industrialisation under the Soviet Union, the levels of contamination in both the Aral and Caspian seas reached the point of non-return. The fish curled up and died. And those who had fished those seas lost their food. But they aren't fashionable nor even considered pretty, are outside of the Eurovision song contest cachement area and speak langauges of such obscurity that no-one even bothers learning them.* The captain didn't care, and told me in complete sincerity that I was a twisted idealist and foolish young man, who had committed the sin of Socrates in London (and the rts! thing) by corrupting new generations of "white european youth" and most of all hadn't realised that the single main problem with planet Earth, was "overpopulation", that we merely had to allow millions to die. I asked him which millions he would kill or allow to die first. He could not reply, became abusive, I became a problem guest, his son asked me to diplomatically leave which I did with an italian friend to her flat, to watch a video of the movie "snatch", which in the circumstances was not very enjoyable, as she lived downwind from a pig farm.
In Barcelona and Catalonia it has become commonplace for people who appear "leftwing", "liberal", "progressive" even "libertarian" to decry the amount of migrants who yearly arrive. They resent them for their effect on labour markets, linguistic hegemony, homogenous national identity (especially before any independence movement) and their strain on the health services. Every year a page is devoted to the ratio of births in catalan hospitals to "newly arrived mothers" as opposed to "native mothers". Each year it becomes obvious that migrants, or as I prefer to call them at point of having families integrants are having more children than those traditionally thought of as "native". And the presence of these new European children is resented, not for them per se no their contribution to diversity is lauded and the stuff of TV reportage, but the mothers who bring them to the health clinic who haven't learn the languages like their kids are still bear the brunt of prejuice.
We will not run out of children, I assure you. Neither In Ireland nor Europe. Nor do we nor will we soon have "too many" people on this planet. I promise you as well. IF our resources are shared properly and responsibly we have room for many billions more. Certainly our future generations will carry different genes, because they always have. and if there are some, (& I believe there are many) who don't like the idea of their narrow national stereotypes (which have little genomic or scientific basis) being challanged by natural breeding, then the least they could do is offer those who are born in poorer countries and parts of the world a decent beginning. If not we face the most horrible future of only breeding mortgage payers and graduates of the mediocre arts such as journalism or media and the dismal sciences of economy and law and consumers of luxury goods without kudos, who prefer killing off their elders with dignity than actually wondering - "why don't we breed anymore?"
Women, mná na h-eirinn, its your choice, its your body.
If you don't want to bring life into this world then don't. But if you do,
_do so please_ & don't resort to a sperm bank medical student mortgage paying labelled idiot.
do it the original way.

superflous image first appeared in the sunday papers "the geneology edition" edition 27/7/06

is this where the philosophical speculation begins with how many and why?

by Terence Wed Mar 29, 2006 20:54

First off you completely ignored the other information on eco-footprints, but no bother about small details like that.

However your figures are based on wild idealist assumptions like perfect soil fertility and correct amount of moisture. Using your figures of ~ 17.7 million acres and productivity of 3,000 kg per acre you get a production figure of 53 billion kg which comes out by chance to close to the annual world production of rice which is around 575 million tonnes. And I am pretty sure there is a lot more than 17 million acres of farmland devoted to rice production than this. For example in 1996 China was devoting 31 million ha (or 1 ha = 2.47 acre or 76 million acres) to rice production.

One other thing, the rice consumption per capita per year is way above your figure of 6kg per year. I think one would starve on that.

Here's some figures: Colombia: 40kg, Brazil: 45kg, Ivory Coast: 60kg, China: 90kg, Indonesia: 150kg and I doubt that all they eat.

by Bukkake Wed Mar 29, 2006 20:31

If I were a rich person and the government increased taxes I would motivated to cut my expenditure and work harder to increase my income so that the sum that the government would take in taxes would be simply money I was never going to use anyway.
A modest increase of let us say 2% might not make much difference to me - its an irritant but its loose change.
What if taxes were raised to 50%?
Now I would have to work much harder to be able not only to enjoy my pre-tax income but even to remain profitable.
I would also have to tighten my purse strings. I would not want to deny myself my own expenditure - on cars, clothes, mansions, my jet, my yacht e.g. So I would makes cuts in other areas - If I was employing 10000 people and I knew that if I sacked 4000 of them I could remain as profitable or if I closed a few of my less efficient factories.
But my foreign shareholders would be breathing down my neck - where are their profits? After their investments they now must pay 50% more in income taxes and their share prices have plummeted.
Another country has a lower tax rate, cheaper workers and less business regulations for investers to worry about - so they sell up and go elsewhere.
Now I must cut my own expenditure and I must cut my remaing workforce and other factories which have now become a drain on my income and raise the prices of my goods.
Meanwhile other rich people have left the country along with their fortunes or else have salted them away in Swiss bank accounts where the government can't touch them.
The government is not getting enough money through taxes to pay for the elderly because many businesses have been closed down and others have relocated to other countries.
So they raise taxes to 60% on those who remain.
Now I am FUCKED.
The cost of running my factories means I am in the RED because my products are no longer profitable - on the market they are too costly to buy and consumers are themselves burdened with 60% incomes taxes. To maintain my lifestyle - I have to sell my assets to make a profit. All of my former 10,000 workers are sacked.
The government is still getting FUCK all in taxes it so it raises taxes anyway it can.
Food, fuel and housing prices have sky rocketed.
There are huge numbers of unemployed and all of them are on social welfare which needs to be paid with taxes nobody can pay.
There are no rich people left now because everybody is poor and the money collected in taxes is worthless on the exchange market - the prices of goods have increased 1,000%.
People are starting to look like scarecrows little children have begun to disappear and the little piles of bones are found in dustbins.
The government decides "To the fields! Let us grow rice!"

by Tank Girl Wed Mar 29, 2006 18:44

How could any rational person suggest that I am in favour of euthanasia for the elderly? Only someone capable of very strange mental gymnastics could infer this.

Why do you raise it? Are you in favour of it? After all your great conference had a speaker who wants the elderly to work until they are 75.

Your solution is to work the elderly to death.

My solution is to tax the rich and seize the land squatted on by the Catholic Church. They stole the money by terrorising the Irish people in the first place.

by BRéNOC Wed Mar 29, 2006 18:34

So TANK GIRL, your solution to the multitude of problems we are facing in Ireland & Europe is a pill.

A pill to prevent pregnancy, a pill to abort an unwanted child
and continuing YOUR logic
I presume you would also favour a pill to deal with the problem of
too many old people burdening our health system ?

To quote the much favoured slogan of the WE WANT IT ALL NOW GENERATION
every child a wanted child
ergo
every aged parent a wanted aged parent.

If not, I presume you consider terminating the problem applies as much to the old as the young !

by Tank Girl Wed Mar 29, 2006 18:29

In an ideal world these services would be available 24 hours a day or over the counter in pharmacies. But this is the real world, IFPA is a voluntary body and cannot open 24/7. The religious right areconstantly trying to undermine the IFPA and even get it closed down. For more information please consult the links I have provided.

TG

IFPA
Where can you get emergency contraception?
Emergency contraception is only available by prescription so you must go to your doctor or family planning centre. Emergency contraception is available on the medical card scheme. All the advice and treatment you receive is confidential – wherever your receive it.

The IFPA provides an emergency contraception pill service seven days a week from our medical centres.
No appointment is necessary for our Sunday walk-in service. 12pm – 3pm IFPA The Square, Tallaght and 2pm – 5pm IFPA 5-7 Cathal Brugha Street, Dublin 1.

OPENING HOURS
Monday: 9.30am - 8pm
Tuesday: 9.30am - 7pm
Wednesday: 9.30am - 7pm
Thursday: 9.30am - 8pm
Friday: 9.30am - 7pm
Saturday: 9.30am - 4pm
Sunday: 2pm – 5pm Emergency Contraception Pill Service Only

by Curious Wed Mar 29, 2006 18:20

Are any of these contactable at the weekend when people might most need it? The morning after pill is most effective when taken within 12 hours.

by Tank Girl Wed Mar 29, 2006 18:10

"THERE ARE NO RIGHTS WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES.
Now deal with the consequences."

The consequences are dealt with through using the morning after pill or abortion. Contraception sometimes fails and sometimes people, being human, dont use it. But theres help out there. If you are pregnant and dont want to be then contact the groups below:

Marie Stopes Reproductive Choices Family Planning Centre
Dublin based organisation providing help & advice for unplanned pregnancy, family planning services – including vasectomy – and health screening.
10/11 Berkeley Street
Dublin 7.
(01) 830 0630
http://www.reproductivechoices.ie/contact.htm

________________________________________

Emergency Contraception ('Morning After Pill')
If you have had sex and did not use contraception or if you think the contraception did not work – emergency contraception is available in the form of hormonal pills which must be taken within 72 hours of having unprotected sex. This service is available at all of our medical centres.

IFPA
60 Amiens Street
Dublin 1, Ireland
Tel 01 - 806 9444
Fax 01 - 806 9445
http://www.ifpa.ie/

IFPA
Level 3, The Square
Tallaght, Dublin 24
Tel: 01 - 459 7685/6
Fax: 01 - 462 4067

Pregnancy Counselling Service:
Appointments for Counselling at the following centres must be made through the IFPA National Pregnancy Help line Tel: 1850 49 50 51 Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Sligo, Waterford, Dundalk and Letterkenny .

Independent Family Planning Centres:
Cork Family Planning Centre, 23 Tuckey Street, Grand Parade, Cork. Tel: 021 4277 906
Galway Family Planning Centre, Lismoyle House, Augustine Street, Galway. Tel: 091 562 992
Women's Health Clinic, 1 North Quay, Newcastle West, Co Limerick. Tel: 069 62933
Limerick Family Planning Centre, 27 Mallow Street, Limerick. Tel: 061 312 026
Tralee Family Planning, 29 Ashe Street, Tralee. Tel: 066 712 5322

Family Planning Association (FPA) offices in Belfast and Derry:
- 113 University Street, Belfast, BT7 1HP.
Tel (from the Republic) 048 90 325 488

- 2nd Floor, Northern Counties Building, Custom House Street, Derry BT48 6AE .
Tel (from the Republic) 048 71 260 016

by Tommy Wed Mar 29, 2006 18:00

So we all fucking slave and eat rice?

I dont want to eat FUCKING RICE!

by Plato Wed Mar 29, 2006 17:45

1 Square Mile Contains 640 acres

CIA Factbook
Holland Area = 41,526 square KM
Belgium Area = 30,278 square KM

Total = 71,804 * 247.105381 = acres in Holland and Belgium
Total Acres = 17,743154 (17 Million)
A Four Bedroom House would contain 5 or 6 people, lets say 5 people for arguments sake.
So thats 17,743154 * 5 people according to your 1 acre rule which I don't agree with that gives us a total according to your rule of

88,715,770 People that could be sustained.
However A Good area of land with technology can produce 3 Tons of Rice annualy.
So 17,743,154 acres multiplied by 3,000 kilos of rice (tons) =
53,229,462,000 billion therefore / 6 billion people = Roughly 9 Kilos of Rice a year per person which multipled by 2 harvests a year at 18 Kilos is sufficient to feed every person on this planet for a year . To be technical lets just add luxembourg so as we have extra land for roads and more spacious housing.
Now who is wrong?
Your theory of 1 acre per person is the falsity the figures speak for themselves.

by BRéNOC Wed Mar 29, 2006 17:21

A yes TANK GIRL there's nothing like a four minute delay to absorb all the technicalities of a complex discussion and then start hysterically screaming NAZI.

The Germans have been in recession for many years.
Initially they blamed it on the cost of reunification with East Germany.
But that was 15 years ago.

The demographer pointed out that the seeds of recession were sown three decades ago
with the drop off in the number of babies born, at that time.
Which means that the most dynamic and productive part of the population, (those in their 20s and 30s)
is now suffering a shortfall.
Thus, no matter what other economic measures are taken to kick start the German economy
they will not have any effect because what Germany is suffering from is population implosion.

One of the concrete effects of population implosion is now affecting all the major european economies -
fewer young people means old people MUST work for longer
because there are no youngsters to support them in their old age.

This is a simple fact that can be seen by even the most casual glance at population statistics.

I don't care what ideological brand you follow TANK GIRL, these are the simple facts.

THERE ARE NO RIGHTS WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES.
Now deal with the consequences.

by Terence Wed Mar 29, 2006 17:05

Plato,
Your figures are way off the mark and are completely wrong. You say:

>The population of the world would fit inside belgium + Holland and every single person would have >enough acerage with a detatched 4 bedroomed house to grow their own food for the year.

It is generally agreed that most people would need at a very minimum 1 acre to grow their food on and using the conversion figures that : 1 acre = 0.40468 hectares and there are 259 hectares in 1 square mile, we then get:

6 billion x 0.40468 / 259 = 9.374 million square miles!

I think that I have just demonstrated that your comment was completely false. You also fail to take account of the real footprint of people, since to build those houses and to generally live, the additional amount of land and resources required by 6 billion people for timber and other crops would be vastly higher.

It is well known that the ecological footprint of Europe is bigger than Europe itself. Therefore it is a good thing that the population is falling back towards more sustainable numbers.

For more information on ecological footprints and sustainable populations by country, see
http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.sustainable.number....html -where the figures for Western Europe show a current population of 387million with the optimum sustainable figure at 132 million for the present lifestyle and 251 million at a "Modest" lifestyle allowing for 12% biodiversity

by Tank Girl Wed Mar 29, 2006 16:48

"He linked it to Germany's inability to get out of recession and
the need to raise the retirement age to 75."

Thats it get the master race going and work old people to death. That will sort things out! 75 is greater than the average Irish life span

"The number of economically active young people is drying up
as a direct result of the contraceptive / abortion revolution."

Back to 12 kids! Chain women to their beds and kitchen sinks.

"Related Link: http://www.truthtv.org"

A Youth Defence far right site.

by BRéNOC Wed Mar 29, 2006 16:44

Your information on population decline and the reasons behind it was thoroughly discussed last weekend
at the "4th International Conference for Life and Family".

There was a Scottish demographer who gave a brilliant expose of the long and short term effects
of population implosion in Europe.

He linked it to Germany's inability to get out of recession and
the need to raise the retirement age to 75.

The number of economically active young people is drying up
as a direct result of the contraceptive / abortion revolution.

Follow the link for the best web site on this subject.

by Tank Girl Wed Mar 29, 2006 16:24

Part of the reason for the decline is that women now have more control over their bodies. In the past Irish women were under the thumb of the Catholic church and were forced to have large families. While I would disagree with Kathy on some matters she has written movingly on how women were butchered in maternity hospitals due to Catholic Church rules against sterilisation.

Now there is greater access to contraception but there is often still a problem with getting the morning after pill. Youth Defence picket IFPA clinics on Sundays to try and scare away women who wish to get emergency contraception. Do they realise that this will result in yet more abortions. Abortion isnt yet available in Ireland but we are getting there.

Never again will women be prepared to go back to having twelve children.

by M Cotton Wed Mar 29, 2006 16:12

It also makes a nonsense of the fortress Europe phenomenon and the associated anti immigration laws and practices that are being used to deny so-called 'economic' migrants. 'Mere' poverty it seems is not a good enough reason: we'd rather self-destruct than share what we have now.

by Plato Wed Mar 29, 2006 16:10

The population of the world would fit inside belgium + Holland and every single person would have enough acerage with a detatched 4 bedroomed house to grow their own food for the year.
This world is not overpopulated, it is just that technology for renewal energies is suppressed, and developing countires are denied the oppurtunity of growth and stability by the current International Financial system.

by Misanthrope Wed Mar 29, 2006 16:04

There are over 6 billion people on this planet. What's the problem if the population goes down? There might be a bit more breathing space for the next generations.