The Criminal Israeli Siege of Jericho Prison

by Ali H. Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:53

Israel's justice ministry is deciding whether to prosecute a hospital that held a new born baby born to an Israeli citizen who happened to be a Muslim for two months as a "guarantee" until a bill of $2,150 was paid. The ministry ordered the release of the child.

The woman's family told Haaretz that two other Israeli hospitals had turned her away because she could not pay a deposit of $72,500 (£40,000) before being admitted.

Such discrimination is reported as being commonplace by Israeli Muslims.

If this is what happens in hospitals it makes one wonder what lies in store for those forcibly transferred from Palestinian to Israeli prisons!?

by anti-bean Thu Mar 16, 2006 15:43

That's odd, when i was in Tel Aviv (by all accounts the most secular city in Israel) during Yom Kippur, I was repeatedly warned not to be seen driving/smoking/using my phone on the street or i'd get rocks thrown at me. My Israeli atheist friends all had stories of being attacked for not observing Jewish religious customs, by doing such monstrous things as using a cell-phone in public on the "shabbat of shabbats". I was also shouted at in the street of Jerusalem by an American-Israeli Jew for having a facial piercing. And yet in the weeks i spent in the West Bank, i was never threatened or shouted at (except by israeli soldiers). I'm a white Westerner, and yet I was able to walk around Tulkarm, Rammallah and Nablus on my own without any hassle. Kind of destroys your ridiculous rant, eh?

You think that living in Israel makes you some kind of history expert? That logic makes the following statement true: "I live in Ireland and hear the bullshit spouted by the media and government daily, therefore I know more about 1916 than some jonny foreigner who actually studied the facts. Yea"

by Mike Novack Thu Mar 16, 2006 14:51 Buckland MA, USA

NOT 20 minutes. It is simply an utter lie and falsehood that the Israelis had so little time to prepare their response if, and at the moment of the monitor/warders withdrawal. Totally ignores the background and what has been going on the last week or so.

The US and British monitors/warders were there as a result of the settlement of the seige of Arafat's headquarters -- the purpose of that siege being to arrest these prisoners. THAT was the arrangement reached that ended that standoff. The acused were to be held ina Palestinian (not Israeli) jaoil with US and British monitor/warders to guarantee that they were in fact held (and not summarily released by their Palestinian jailors).

Over the last week or two, conditions rapidly deteriorated. The new Palestinian government in formation was making all sorts of statements that one of their first acts would be to release these prisoners, agreement or no. As a result, not unreasonably, the jailors began ignoring the orders of the monitors/warders . Since I haven't seen the text of the complaints of the monitors/warders I am not totally sure of the details. I've seen "letting in unauthorized visitors" anmd "giving the prisoners cell phones" and "warders forced up onto the roofs". The point is, apparently in every case where the monitors/warders sent the Palestinian authorities one of these complaint communications with its warning "if these thiongs aren't addressed we are out of here and the agreement is done" they copied the Israelis

So the Israelis knew well in advance that a pullout of might happen and had plenty of time to prepare their response to the end of the agreement.

by Lady Bracknell Wed Mar 15, 2006 23:16

1: the raid occured because the IDF wanted to show : this is what happens when you vote for Hamas

2: The IDF hope to create some kind of a 'response'/Backlash from this action so that they can then go on to claim that the Palestinian's are 'really really all just violent terrorists', despite the fact that no 'attacks' on Israeli's have been launched by the Palestinian's in months. whereas the IDF have killed numerous Palestinians over the last few months without any corresponding violent response from the Palestinian side. Itchy trigger-fingers methinks

3: this is also a message to all Palestinian's, 'We can humiliate you anytime we choose, see how we can parade your men before the world in just their underwear, and you can't do a thing about it, F*&k you, naah naah'

4: the withdrawal of the US and Brit 'monitors' 30 mins beforehand was well stage-managed by Jack Straw in the Commons. He claimed their removal was because they had not been recieving enough 'protection' from the Palestinian Authority . Funnily enough, there wasn't a word in any media about this supposed 'lack of protection' prior to the IDF action. If the 'monitors' were in such grave danger it seems somewhat strange, given the media fascination for all-things-middle-eastern, that we heard nothing beforehand about the gravely dangerous situation these oh-so-impartial and totally-like-really-really-brave-monitor-dudes-and-dudettes had placed themselves into. Or did I miss all that while I was drunk? ..... (it's possible :)

4: subtext being that the PA cannot control anything

by Fedayeen Wed Mar 15, 2006 19:52

Some of the above comments are completely inaccurate. Their general inaccuracy about the Palestine/Israel conflict has already been corrected so I will confine myself to some facts about the PFLP.

1. The PFLP is a secular leftist organisation whose aim is a secular democratic state encompassing all of historic Palestine, where Jews, Christians, Muslims and others would live together. They do not favour ethnic cleansing/ 'driving the Jews into the sea'. Their position may be very idealistic but it is not anti-semitic or premised on the idea of evicting Israelis from the land of Palestine.

2. The PFLP did kill an extreme right-wing Israeli minister who advocated the mass transfer of Palestinians from the Occupied Territories to Arab countries in 2001 but this followed the assasination of the previous leader of the PFLP by the Israelis. Personally I think it is wrong to engage in such individual terrorism or what the Israeli State likes to call targeted assasinations but the current sitution should be put in context.

3. Ahmed Saadat, the current PFLP leader, now abducted by the Israelis from the Jericho jail, was never tried for involvement in the killling of the Israeli minister. He was held, contrary to basic human rights, without trial, according to an agreement between the Israelis/PA/USA/Britain. Of course we will now get a show trial in Israel but no objective observer believes that such trials are fair. Can we also expect a trial of the Israeli Prime Minister who ordered the original assasination of the previous PFLP leader?

3. The PFLP does not generally engage in attacks on civilians inside Israel nor does it carry out suicide bombings. It as small organisation with a military wing that has carried out few actions in recent years most of which were within the Occupied Territories.

4. The PFLP are opposed to any sort of Islamic state, contravention of womens rights etc. This arises from the obvious fact that they are secular leftists but also that many of their members and supporters come from the Palestinian Christian community. They are willing to work with Hamas to end the occupation and to put a stop to corruption and to that end they have entered discussions, mistakenly in my opinion, with Hamas about joining coalition, which although it wont advance the struggle for a democratic socialist state, would inevitably curtail any move by Hamas to introduce Sharia law etc.

5. The real reason for this attack and abduction of PFLP militants was twofold: Firstly to boost Olmert, the Israeli PM, and his Kadima party in the upcoming Isaraeli general election. By picking a relatively easy target (why the PFLP and not Hamas?) he was assured of 'success' thereby apppearing as 'tough on the Arabs' and neutralising Likud to his right. The second reason is that Israel, who actuallly financed and promoted Hamas initiallly in Gaza in the 80s as an alternative to secular groupings such as the PFLP and Fatah, want to eliminate any possibility of a radical leftist/secular resistance coming to the fore so that they can portray Palestinians as Islamic fundamentalists/fanatics. hence the targeting of Saadat/PFLP, the incarceration of Marwan Barghouti, the popular grassroots Fatah leader and the recent imprisonment of a prominent leader of the marxist DFLP.

by Richey Wed Mar 15, 2006 19:06

No, the refugees left Palestine in 1948 because the Israeli forces massacred hundreds of civilians at Deir Yassin and elsewhere. They were afraid of being exterminated. Not satisfied with that, Israel then took the West Bank and the Gaza strip by force in 1967 and have occupied it ever since. Palestinian children learn to hate the IDF because they see its soldiers degrade and humiliate their people every day. Your claim that the IDF only ever responds to "terrorism" has been demolished by (among others) Amnesty International and the Israeli daily Ha'aretz.

In the early weeks of the Al-Aqsa intifada, before there were any suicide bombings in Israel, IDF soldiers shot to kill when youths threw stones at them. They did so under orders from Barak and the army command, who wanted to provoke the Palestinian uprising into following a military route that they could easily crush. Barak and Sharon reaped the whirlwind of this policy when Hamas and the Al-Aqsa brigades found it so easy to recruit suicide bombers - not because children were "taught to hate Jews", but because experience led them to hate Israelis.

by bean - myself Wed Mar 15, 2006 18:14

i hate to get on my high horse here, but i actually live in israel and see the everyday effects that attacks of terror have on innocent, israelis.i am irish,and look western.i have never had an israeli jew throw shit at me while walking down the street.however me,my girlfriend and even my mother have had stones and various other shit thrown at us just walking around the city.both sides have their unreasonable extremists,and i am not anti-palestine at all,i am simply pro-israel.for the historically uninformed,the palestinians left israel voluntarily before the six day war having been told by all the surrounding arab countries that after israel had been destroyed they could return and claim their homes.as it turned out, israel won the war and not unreasonably reclaimed their land.its all very well for liberals who for all their lovely political idealogies, have no idea what it is like to wake up everyday with the threat of being blown up, to sympathise with the poor palestinians plight.unfortunatly, and very sadly,from an early age arab kids are brainwashed and indoctrinated to hate westerners and jews.this is what causes kids no older than ten to shout abuse and curses and throw things at people walking down the street.all military acts by the idf are in retaliation to acts of terror commited against israel,and of course if they didnt retaliate the country would not exist in a matter of days.if the israelis are driven out they have nowhere to go,the palestinians are not taken in by the huge five immediately surrounding muslim countries because they, among other things refuse to pay tax and fuck up the ecology and such wherever they go.sorry for rambling.

by codger Wed Mar 15, 2006 14:11

those feckin palestinians going around causing trouble again. sher whats wrong with them arent the israelis giving them their dues, i.e. tax, infrastructure, security (their no one going to invade palestine, i can tell, you that, not without the israelsi's clearing it first anyway, fuck it, israeli- palestinians are lucky if they can get in their themselves) and a worldwide platform to promote tourism in palestine. they left them hold their own elections, its not their fault the voted for the wrong group (although if you ask me their all the wrong groups). and then last night you had the israelis transfering prisoners back to home( i know youll talk about extradition laws and all that, but come on, between such close friends, we hardly have to go through all that RED tape) and they come under heavy fire ( those rocks are heavy you know) and they fire off a few warning mortar shells or whatever they were and at that exact time a few prison guards come out of nowhere and get caught directly in the firing line. who trained these guys... and anyway they dont like us so why should we care huh...

by Ali H. Wed Mar 15, 2006 13:53

"Saadat was poised to be release or escape and kill again."

He was in jail and it took the Israeli authorities 20 mins to organise this attack after the US and UK supervisors left the building. Likely story. This is a cheap political stunt by Olhmert to show hes as "tough" as Bibi Nethanyahu and Likud 2 weeks before the elections.

"ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people - either by exiling them or by mass murder."

Rubbish. 700,000 Palestinians were expelled by Jewish terrorists in 1948. That's the root of the problem.

"The Palestinian people are consumed by an ideology of hatred after decades of attempting to failed attempts destroy Israel and have become the breathing ground for terrorists supported by the Arab neighbours of Israel after the failed military invasions in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973."

Rubbish again. They don't need to look into history for their grievances as discrimination, cruelty and repression by the Israelis are visited upon them every day.

"The Left support the Palestinians in the full knowledge that victory in eyes of the Palestinians is not a state comprising the West Bank and Gaza at peace with Israel, a Palestinine comprising all of the Holy Land."

Complete bollocks. This is a human rights and self-determination issue for the Palestinians. Even Hamas has said they'll talk if Israel pulls back to the 1967 borders as required by a long list of UN resolutions.

"The goal of the Islamic fundementalists in Palestine is the same as the goal of the Islamic fundementalists in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Checnya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia and Leeds - the unification of the Muslim world in a Caliphate governed by Islamic Sharia Law. "

You should have thought of this before funding Hamas to undermine the PLO. In any case these guys do not represent the vast majority of Muslims, no more so than you represent mainstream Jewish opinion.

"The goal of Saddam was acquire WMD and the goal of the Iranian mullahs is a nuclear bomb while the goal of the extremists in Pakistan is to overthrow Musharraf and inherit a ready made infrastructure of nuclear weapons."

Israel set the bar by acquiring 200-300 nukes, chemical and biological weapons. The Islamic bomb is already a reality in Pakistan and Iran will eventually join the club. The only effect will be MAD again creating space for dialogue absent when Israel can play the nuclear trump card.

"After the Caliphate becomes a superpower they intend to conquer the entire world and force all of the infidels - that means you me and everybody to convert to Islam and submit to their totalitarian ideology.
The US learned on 9/11 what the Spanish did not learn in Madrid - that their war is that same as the of Israel because their enemy is the same - extremist Islam."

Talking about adding 2+2 and getting 500000! Israel is only on one side. Her own! We don't need Israel or the US to do our dirty work for us. The only result of cooperation with Israel is the murder of Jean Charles de Meneses and Israeli-trained US stormtroopers killing Iraqi civilians. Nein danke!

by Flynn Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:44

Sa'adat is head of the PFLP a group along with Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other Palestinian groups which have worked together with the PLO to commit suicide terrorist attacks against innocent Israeli men women and children.
Sa'adat's group was responsible for the murder of an Israeli Cabinet minister.
He was poised to be release or escape and kill again.

The openly declared goal of the entire Palestinian movement from its leadership, intellectuals, political activists, armed members and majority of the Palestininan people themselves is the destruction of the State of Israel and the ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people - either by exiling them or by mass murder.

The Palestinian people are consumed by an ideology of hatred after decades of attempting to failed attempts destroy Israel and have become the breathing ground for terrorists supported by the Arab neighbours of Israel after the failed military invasions in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.

The Left support the Palestinians in the full knowledge that victory in eyes of the Palestinians is not a state comprising the West Bank and Gaza at peace with Israel, a Palestinine comprising all of the Holy Land.

The goal of the Islamic fundementalists in Palestine is the same as the goal of the Islamic fundementalists in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Checnya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia and Leeds - the unification of the Muslim world in a Caliphate governed by Islamic Sharia Law. The goal of Saddam was acquire WMD and the goal of the Iranian mullahs is a nuclear bomb while the goal of the extremists in Pakistan is to overthrow Musharraf and inherit a ready made infrastructure of nuclear weapons.

After the Caliphate becomes a superpower they intend to conquer the entire world and force all of the infidels - that means you me and everybody to convert to Islam and submit to their totalitarian ideology.

The US learned on 9/11 what the Spanish did not learn in Madrid - that their war is that same as the of Israel because their enemy is the same - extremist Islam.