"May be a case" for torture express inspections at Shannon: Wille O'Dea

by Seán Ryan Wed Jan 25, 2006 18:58

Tis well known that our little Willie will argue the constitution at the drop of a hat, and turn it into a song and a dance.

It must be pointed out in our Willie's defence, that he does not agree with the war in Iraq, he reckons himself to be at odds with the government in this thinking.

Funnily enough, our Willie never argues the constitution in relation to these brave assertions.

It is my duty to offer aid to our Willie in this respect, and point out to him that there's loads of constitutional arguments he could make to back up his position.

For instance if he disagrees with the reasoning behind the American invasion of Iraq, well then Article one serves well here. Article one claims us to be a sovereign nation, so Willy should have no problem as Minister for Defence in telling Bush to "fuck off," and this is so whether his reasoning be sound or otherwise.

But of course no discussion about our Willie would be complete, without at least some reference to article 39. Methinks the actions of our government have invited conflict from abroad, and it promotes conflict between citizens in Ireland.

So let's all join together to support Willie, who's rapidly becoming an endangered species.

Wouldn't want our little Wille exposed now would we?

Sláinte,
Seán

by Edward Horgan Thu Jan 26, 2006 14:20

Forget about phoney searches of US aircraft at Shannon airport. If such searches are introduced the US will be informed in advance of which aircraft will be searched. We must now demand that all US military aircraft, all chartered aircraft carrying US troops, and aircraft controlled by the CIA, be banned from using Shannon and from Irish airspace because of their past abuse of Irish neutrality, not to mention the crimes against the peoples of Serbia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Shannon airport is also probably still being used for the rendition of prisoners because Minister McDowell gave public assurances that no such aircraft will be searched. Ireland is the only state in the world that has given such "illegal" assurances. (failure to prevent our territory to be used for torture purposes is in direct contravention of the UN Convention against Torture).
US WAR, TORTURE and TROOP planes out of Shannon now.

by mr.jinks Fri Jan 27, 2006 02:07

Ed, you have played this mythical tune for the past few years, is it not time to enjoy your retirement from The Irish Army. Surely you must realise that even if Rendition Flights had been at Irish Airports, it is all in the past and any direct paperwork re same would have long since been filed in the "round file".
Is it so hard to accept that your "special flights" may have been genuine business flights and nothing more? We all love a thriller and now that nothing was there in the first place and can be proven as I Know , yes I Know, having close friends working in the Airport and would have dealt with Private flights, suspicious activities would have been noticed as most handling agents would be invited aboard to visit the crew in the cockpit and the passengers in the cabin area. Not big enough to hide anyone elsewhere.
The laughable scenario would be for secret agents with detainees to land in Irish airports and then have a major aircraft mechanical fault and subsequently have to B&B terrorists or prisoners at a local hotel while trying not to look conspicuous.............
Maybe Grisham will take the lead from your notes, hope he sends you some royalties or is someone already funding your rantings?

Humour in uniform is alive in Ireland. Please excuse the "pun".

by tim Fri Jan 27, 2006 02:50

The anti-fascist covenants called the Geneva Conventions on War (1949) make the U.S. military and its commander-in-Chief guity of war crimes in these three obvious areas, 1) targeting and killing civilians, 2) torturing prisoners of war, 3) Collective Punishment, such as when the Iraqi resistence killed four mercenary contractors in the pay of the Illegal U.S. military invaders, the U.S. military used that act as an excuse to destroy the city of Fallujah, killing thousands of innocent Iraqis. These flights of rendition in and out of Shannon airport are a violation of the Irish peoples sovereignty as independance and means the Irish government is guilty of complicity in the illegal war criminal crimes of the U.S. government and its Imperialist Military. The Bush administration has been found guilty of war crimes and should be taken from power by impeachment by the U.S. constitution for High Crimes and misdemeanors, and then tried internationally for the war crimes that the international anti-fascist covenants have found them guilty of. Bush, Blair lied 200,000 died. Actually the figure since the 1918-20 Invasions of Iraq by the British Imperialists and the on going invasions led by U.S. Imperialism is now up to 2,750,000 Iraqis and Iranians dead. Whatever happened to the Internationale brigades now that we need them again? Viva liberation and independance for all countries, and the comming into being of a free world economy based on the equal exchange of labour power so aggressive wars, pollution, and poverty caused by wars of aggression ends for ever.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Sat Jan 28, 2006 16:24

So rendition flights never passed through Shannon airport and even if they did, the evidence has all gone into the round file (I take it this means the bin?)

And you are able to pre-empt any international Inquiry and tell us ahead of time that they will find that the well-documented "special flights" or torture planes were never there, or, if they were, they were engaged in "genuine business" only.

- Sorry, you know, and can even prove, that they were never there in the first place. This can be proven because your close friends who work at the airport who dealt with Private flights "would have noticed suspicious activities". As you say, they were invited aboard (always?) to visit the crew in the cockpit, and the passengers. They would have found evidence if there had been any there, of course! Too small to hide. Q.E.D.

Now, Mr Jinx isn't it a terrible pity that your friend at the airport didn't present all these relevant and weighty facts to the Government and so spared Ministers the embarrassment of interminable, unanswerable Dáil and Seanad questions, public outcry and consequent red faces while they have been prevaricating and waffling about the US rendition flights at Shannon.

It should be interesting to hear your own and your friend's testimony at the Inquiry. Be careful though about how you handle your allegations re the binning of relevant documents in which the Inquiry might have a special interest.

Otherwise, the outcome might turn out, for you, to be much more serious than a "laughable scenario"

by mr jinks Sun Jan 29, 2006 09:31

yet again this wonderful (!!) site chooses to delete any argument agaimnst the crusties... sad.. still its fun to give them some work to do in their battle to keep people in the dark about both sides of whats becoing a trediously drawn out and boring affair.. horgan said somewhere here recently that he had proof of these torture flights!! where is it????? just because corporate jets land here at different hrs of the night and head to europe is no proof... just because someone in another country claimed this is what has happened doesnt mean it did.. show the proof horgan and stop your waffling bullsh*t... thanks.. pity this wont be published for long

by friend of Airport workers Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:21

Most companies are only obliged to retain records for Revenue/Tax purposes in case earnings etc. are needed to be verified. Nowhere in Law , are companies obliged to keep all confidential documents unless referring directly to income/expenditure.
Files containing names and occupations of Passengers and personal details are not retained beyond a few months as too much irrelevant information would amass bulky files and storage space.
Of course the old files would be disposed of . Of course if any Flight showed any abnormalities or suspicious activity , naturally the associated paperwork would be filed away indefinitely. So far nothing special on the top shelf.
You folks, have been asking the same questions , and yet aren't willing to accept the fact that NO DETAINEES have been landed at Irish Airports as yet.
Are you being paid like the Labour and some Sinn Fein ministers to harass the present Irish Government just for laughs ? Thank you for reading the "left side of the pages in your books", maybe when maturity hits you , then, hopefully you will be able to accept what is in print on the "right".
Hopefully, this will remain on the link for a few days at least, not like the other factual accounts by people working at the airports or is it only your rights in print that are acceptable ?

by airport associate Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:07

Maybe, just maybe, staff have been questioned by the Gardai, but Government ministers are fed up with the scum, yes scum, of Labour, Sinn Fein,and others like you, more scum, wasting time over repeating accusations of "rendition flights" landing at Irish Airports, when these accusations have been answered by the chosen present Taoiseach and futher down the line by other people associated with Shannon and Dublin Airports.

So fed up are we with your poor understanding of "free speech" that the time has come to ignore this bulls**t site.

by Mary Kelly Sun Jan 29, 2006 13:54

At last it appears there are some people working at Shannon prepared to speak out! Could we have your names please, and your explanation of WHY ITS OK FOR THE US MILITARY TO USE IRISH AIRPORTS CONTRARY TO IRISH AND INTERNATIONAL LAW?
3 years ago today, I was arrested at Shannon for disarming one of these war machines.
Did I get it all wrong?
Can you prove that the US military are not using the airport for transporting troops weapons and illegally kidnapped persons?
I invite you to bring it tomorrow night to the talk at 7pm in Oakwood Arms Shannon town where an ex US marine will be speaking at 7pm. He claims to have transitted thru Shannon.

by redjade Sun Jan 29, 2006 14:18

Reading through this discussion it occured to me that Shannon International Airport must be the easiest Airport in Europe to smuggle drugs into.

No one seems to even be willing to look inside of the planes for fear of offending someone.

by Seán Ryan Sun Jan 29, 2006 21:32

Dear 'Friend of airport workers,'

what is it that you mean when you say, "Nowhere in Law , are companies obliged to keep all confidential documents unless referring directly to income/expenditure."

Could you give an example of such a 'confidential document.'

The reason I ask is that it is now being spun to the public, that "extra judicial" to quote that muppet Rivkin from Prime Time last week, is a term that may be familiar to our government. And that other muppet McDowell last week gave a very ambiguos statement, that could easily be taken to have made allowances for what Rivkin said, and surrepticiously put them into Irish law, in defiance to the people and in defiance to the constitution.

Could I take it from your above quoted statement that a 'confidential document' could refer to what I have just said?

And that Shannon Airport has a legal right to destroy or 'get rid of' it?

I await the next thread of the shoddy web you spin.

Hope you have a parachute.

Seán

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:40

"friend of airport workers" and "airport associate" and Mr Jinx talk the same talk reverting to personal abuse when facts and logic fail.

"Friend", no-one, to my knowledge, has made a claim that detainees have been landed at Shannon airport. Many people have asked questions and you "three" appear to be the only ones giving answers. You, "friend", say it is a fact that "NO DETAINEES have been landed at Irish airports as yet".

This is not what the Taoiseach or Government ministers are saying. They say that people who are asking questions about the passage of torture planes through Shannon have not offered evidence that people were being tortured on these planes or contained detainees on their way to Guantanamo, and if ordinary citizens can give them the evidence, they will have it investigated. They know of course that ordinary citizens have no authority to board planes at Shannon, (unless they do a Mary Kelly or a Pitstop Ploughshares) so it's a safe bet they will not get evidence from that source.

However they do have evidence that a plane was used for rendition of two prisoners from Sweden to Egypt, where the prisoners were tortured. On its way home from Egypt that plane stopped at Shannon. It was No N379P. It wasn't searched or examined to find out what kind of business it had been engaged in.

This evidence came not from you under any of your nom-de-plumes but as a result of the assiduous work of people like Tim Hourigan and Ed Horgan and friends (whom you denigrate) in spite of the constant harrassment of the airport police there. Their evidence, you can take it for certain, has not been binned.

If you or your friend were invited in to see the passengers, or to the cockpit of this plane, on that date, your notes on what you saw there will be available no doubt to a future Inquiry. If you were allowed in to the same plane or similar ones about which the Airport authorities and Gárdaí had been alerted, at any time since that date, your notes will be even more important, knowing of the concerns raised. I hope you have not binned these notes, believing that you could do so because they were not records for Revenue/Tax purposes.

It is very interesting that you say: "Of course if any Flight showed any abnormalities or suspicious activity , naturally the associated paperwork would be filed away indefinitely". Now, Mr Jinx/friend of airport workers/airport associate, you are no fool, I presume, and as "one of you" was allowed access to these private planes (all of them?) at Shannon, he or she would have thoroughly inspected the plane that had already been documented as having rendered prisoners to Egypt where they were tortured. Plenty there for the top shelf.

You have the evidence then, please pass it on to your superiors. They too will need all you can offer them when the questions they have been asked are not answered satisfactorily.

Have Government ministers told you that they are fed up with people who will not accept their answers - and have they called us "scum", or is this your own method of making your point - attack the person, not the argument.?

by Seán Ryan Tue Jan 31, 2006 23:08

Amnesty has just published a report describing some more US usages of extrajudicial practices.

Methinks 'extrajudicial' is about to become a very important term.

Amnesty Statement:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=ENGASA330...22006

Sláinte,
Seán