Secondary Students Punished for Protesting

by pat c Tue Jan 17, 2006 20:43

name the teachers who are taking this action and identify their unions. maybe a protest at the asti and tui hqs would have some effect.

solidarity

pat

by Sean Tue Jan 17, 2006 20:52

The protest had the support from ICTU, TUI and ASTI. Get the names of the teachers and report them to their unions. Also put pressure on the local ASTI and/or TUI shop stewards. Contact the local media and of course the main thing is to build up support from students, collect a petition, talk to people, build support for a walkout. these tactics will result in victory i am sure

by pat c Tue Jan 17, 2006 20:57

the teachers are very likely in the unions already. the worst bollixes amongst teachers are often shopstewards. i remember in my school a teacher who was president of asti, a legitimate target if ever there was one.

by Sean Tue Jan 17, 2006 21:02

Of course you'll get crappy shop stewards but you can't rule them all out. The ASTI shop steward in my school was very good, a real old style militant type. During the recent teachers strike he even got the principal expelled from the union for refusing to do picket duty and ultimately passing it.

by pat c Tue Jan 17, 2006 21:11

by no means. i never meant to suggest all teachers were wretchs. i'm just giving my rant about my own experiences many moons ago. its well worth taking the struggle to the teachers unions, making them accept thatb 2nd level students have rights as well.

by Gregor Kerr - WSM - 1st May (pers cap) Tue Jan 17, 2006 21:36 kerrgregor at yahoo dot co dot uk 086-1501151

Hi
I'm not sure which union the teachers are in. It'll be either TUI or ASTI. Step one would be to find out who the union staff rep/shop steward is and write formally to him/her pointing out that the union supported the day of action, and asking why you as students are being punished by a union member (presuming that the Acting principal and Dean of Discpline are in the union) for taking similar action. You could also find out the name of the local union branch secretary and write to him/her making the same points. Indeed a letter to the union head office would be no harm either.
Presumably some teachers from the school were actually on the demo. Approaching them and asking them to raise this issue through their own personal intervention and through their union structures might also prove useful.
What sort of support do you think you would get from the parents' association?? - Presumably a lot of parents are likely to be union members and may even have been on the demo.
Consider taking up a petition locally.
Keep us posted, let us know how you get on.
Good luck

by students are key Tue Jan 17, 2006 22:23

Key thing though is to mobilise the students, not just relying on union bureaucrats. you're unlikely to get much from the union leaders. get talking to others, petition can be a help, and build support for a walkout in solidarity. This is what is key.

by Limerick1919 Tue Jan 17, 2006 22:25

Hi Cian,

I posted this when you had your previous issue in September:
//
The union in Ard Scoil Ris is the ASTI and they have had some problems there with strike action threatened before (very unusual in a school context). ASTI head office should be informed as should the teacher rep.
RTE education correspondant (o'kelly) is from the area and might also look into it. I would get on to her asap.
You might have the backing of more teachers there than you think.
//

REgards parents groups I would assume that most parents, IN THIS SCHOOL, are in the boss class and in keeping with lots of other schools would actually support stricter discipline against such students.

by Cian Tue Jan 17, 2006 23:24

Thanks to all posters so far - your comments have been taken on board.

I don't think the basis is there fopr thisissue to become fully based on mass student action. THe ASR 'reigime' is very strong. THere is widespread fear and all 'mob rule' and in cases like this the majority often adobt cyncicism as the last line of defence of the ideas which, in my mnd, opress them.Tha sounds very mumbo jumbo actually! DAMN...

Anyway, i thin we should concentrate on a broader campaign, union activists, public, teachers in my school, SP public reps as well as student support etc and media attention. THis an then hopefully have an effect on awarness in the school and then internal work possbly could take the lead.

As previously plnned, i may post up a sample letter of complaint so people can help out. Phone calls and emails can also be good. Hand delevering of letters if you live in the area would b great. Any union activist please keep an eyue on this too. And of course I will be following the idea of 'blitz' again so ALL SOLIDARITY SHOULD BE POSTPONED TILL A SET DAY?TIME.

I say again that it is possible that this will not 'blow-up'. But this time i want to be prepared if it does, as last time it resulted in a very hectic weekend, but a great victory in the end.

Gregor - i hear the WSM have a private audience with Chomskyl. 3 students involved in this will be going up to that as ye invited them o its possible we would ask Noam to write a letter to the managment, and Cc it to mdia - that would actas a gtreat strength. When united with reactirom Joe Higgans, SP councillors, possibly Unions, concerned citizens, teachers from within and without the school and maybe a few semi-famous names (i wonder if Mary Kelly is reading this would she be interested?). and there is also a local politician who may be open to this... All this could, just maybe, win a great victory.

Here is hoping - Together we are strong!

On behalf of all the students concerned and all the students and young people in Ireland - THANK YOU and please KEEP AN EYE ON THIS.

Thanks, Cian

by young anarchist Tue Jan 17, 2006 23:36 anarchistyouth at riseup dot net

Anarchist youth extends solidarity to these students in limerick, it was at the dublin irish ferries march that many members of anarchist youth met for the first time following a mildly successful series of walk-outs across Dublin.

by Tunay Tue Jan 17, 2006 23:43 tunasenturk at yahoo dot com

Hi my name is tunay.first sorry for my english.i m studying in the germany,but i come from Turkey. i was in the student group in univercity of istanbul. we hade to take a punishment because we participated also protest. we would like to have contact with you,so that we can fight for that our rights.

by Dave Wed Jan 18, 2006 03:14

I would get legal advice for this. Your principal has imposed arbitrary discipline on you and your friends. Your principal gave you rules - you followed them and yet you were punished.

Your principal, from other stories you have posted previously, sounds to me like a bully. Any reasonable code of discipline allows for an absence from school with parental consent - whether this comes before or after the fact is irrelevant. I would check your code of discipline for a reference to this. If your principal has breached the rules as laid out by the code then the principal is very much in the wrong. You should get legal advice as to what/if consequences there are.

This might seem like a huge expense but if there are 10 of you involved it only cost you a few euro each. You might get a sympathetic solicitor (they do exist) who would take your case for a fee affordable to secondary students. You could then engage a solicitor and he/she could take it up with the school and it's board of management.

I would not attend detention and would inform your principal beforehand of this.

Best of luck.

by Dave Wed Jan 18, 2006 03:22

...contacting an elected public representative or community activist to take the case up with the school would be effective also I feel.

You should also ask your parents and if your parents are willing you could have them arrange a collective meeting or individual meetings with the principal to iron out the difficulty - with the students also attending. If your principal is a bully - then I'm 100% certain they would back down in a face-to-face meeting with students and parents. If the principal isn't willing to meet with your parents then the next step could be a letter writing campaign to the board of management - detailing the principal's behaviour.

Anybody who has attended school will know that teachers (almost all of my teachers were excellent - but there were 1 or 2 who enjoyed bullying students and imposing arbitrary discipline and ridiculous punishments - teacher's can be more childish than the students) who are bullies will ALWAYS back down when face-to-face with a parent.

by Stephanie Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:20

legal advice wouldn't be a bad idea. and you could go to a free legal advice centre as they're free and open to all. check http://www.flac.ie

i know theres one in catherine st in limerick and most of them do a sort of clinic in the evenings but that website will have all their opening times and contact details on it.

by greadard Wed Jan 18, 2006 13:01

Do you really think Chomsky is going to compose and sign a letter against some kids getting a couple of hours detention? Never mind human rights abuses, torture, oppression, happening on a national/global scale... there's a possibility some teenagers might have to stay in school a few hours and do their homework under teacher supervision!

I'm sure your 'struggle' is very, very important to you, but come on...

by Xavier Wed Jan 18, 2006 14:10

The above comment by grerard is foolish. It is based on a false assumption. That we can only oppose the powers through the use of national/ international issues, and that this is what Naom Chomsky believes. We all, in our daily lives have the opportunity to speak truth to power. Whether it is opposing the schoolyard bully or the international state terrorist. It is heartening to see young secondary students who are willing to stand up and oppose their oppression at the hands of the mandarins of the education system. To Comrade Cian, keep up the struggle against the powers because your opposition to oppression in a Limerick school is just as valid as opposition to oppression on an international level. It is after all from little acorns that great oaks grow.

Solidarity.

by Cian Wed Jan 18, 2006 14:28

Hey,

After a 40 min meeting with the vice principal who was acting principal on the day, it appears they are punishing even those of us who had notes in on the monday. The vice principal appears slightly sympathetic. He says he recognises a students right to protest, and thinks this is an exceptional case etc. It is possible the stern line is coming from the principal who i have had a number of 'run-ins' with. I am only home for lunch so have little time.

Our main argument now is that the Irish Ferries protest day was an exceptional circumstance. Law may appear black and white - but justice is a grey area! Due cause is a recognised thing in all levels of law/rules - including in this school before! It is hypocrytical to punish students for doing something that all unions were calling on their members to do - including the teachers.

My VP accepts its hypocrytical. He is just saying it has to be done.

I am also aware this will probably bring further victimisation on me... its a pity.

I willl post more later.

Thanks for the solidarity,
Cian

by Protest Wed Jan 18, 2006 14:56

Same school again.


School details:
Ardscoil Ris,
North circular road,
Limerick

Tel: (061): 454828/455251
Fax (061): 325035
Email: [email protected]
School website
http://ireland.iol.ie/~asrislim/
last updated in 2001!

Their page at ratemyteacher
http://www.ratemyteachers.ie/schools/ireland/limerick/ardscoil_ris

by protest Wed Jan 18, 2006 14:58

wouldn't you just know, they continue to abuse children by depriving them of their rights!

by . Wed Jan 18, 2006 15:05

schools new website
http://www.ardscoil.com/

by . Wed Jan 18, 2006 15:12

and another email

[email protected]

by pat c Wed Jan 18, 2006 15:47

"a christian brothers school!
by protest Wednesday, Jan 18 2006, 1:58pm

wouldn't you just know, they continue to abuse children by depriving them of their rights!"

it would be mostly if not all lay teachers now. but even back in my days at the North Mon, the teachers were usually worse than the CBs.

by Cian Wed Jan 18, 2006 17:09

PLEASE KEEP ALL EMAILS, LETTERS, PHONE CALLS etc TILL LATER.

We want to have this running in a co-ordinated fashion. We are also still unsure as to how we are going to go at this. Writing etc now could be endangering some fo us for victimisation. I cannot say that everyony is certain yet that they want to fig this. I hope I can convince them this.

Further update: it appears that out of the aprox. 10 that took part in the protest on 3 of us have been given notice for detention. Possibly they considered us at the 'vanguard' so to speak (suppose where we should be). We can't be sure why it is only 3, but it is a double edged sword in that those in the group may be more politically progressive and more 'militant' at the same time there are less of us. We still have to decide how to work with this info as we do not want more of our friends being punished, but wish to point out this divide and rule tactic. Parent problems are weakening us at the moment too.

We have, hopefully, managed to get the detention deferred by 2 weeks due to them not fullfilling the regulatory amount of notice for us. This is a good first step as we have them on the back foot in a sense and now e have 2 weeks to get together a strong campaign.

If everybody in a public position or position of influence (e.g. Trade Union etc) etc. or reps of different organisations could email me at my email adress above with details that would be great (if you are willing to help us of course). And anyone living in Limerick would also be helpful. Please spread the word of this - the amount of people could make or break this.

Thanks again for your support, hopefully it wil encourage the others,
Cian

PS everyone who reads this and supports us simply saying so in this thread would be helpful to get an idea of numbers and to keep us motivated. Thanks again!

by greadard Wed Jan 18, 2006 17:52

Is that what Chomsky says yeah? Funny - because last night in UCD, someone asked a question during the Q+A session which I guess is similar to this. The Q was along the lines of "Isnt political oppression happening everywhere, not just in the middle/far east and dictatorships; but in the West too, with the likes of PATRIOT, CJA, POA silencing political activists (not always a bad thing!) through heavy handed legislation?" And Chomsky brushed it off jokingly, saying that any sort of 'oppression' that we have to contend with in the comfortable bourgeois states we live in, is pathetically insignificant in comparison to the total and utter misery other people beyond the first world/north have to deal with.

Sorry, I just dont think a couple of hours detention for skipping classes warrants a letter writing campaign from people around the country, and a Chomsky backed reccomendation or message for the principal - I think if I was the principal and got this letter I'd tell him to fuck off back to MIT and deal with his own students instead of poking his nose around. Christ, I got suspended twice for various things (you're taking me waaay back), but the sky didnt fall on my head because of it, I guess maybe because I wasnt part of an over enthusiastic "youth movement" (shudder) at the time and didnt really give a shit about getting in the bad books of the school. You'll live.

by Xavier Wed Jan 18, 2006 18:14

what I actually said was:
The above comment by grerard is foolish. It is based on a false assumption. That we can only oppose the powers through the use of national/ international issues, and that this is what Naom Chomsky believes.

The false assumption that Chomsky holds the belief that we can only oppose the powers through national/international struggle. Read his writings.The Q+A you give should be taken in the current context, Irelands complicity to the mass murder in Iraq and the desire to focus attention on it.

Schoolchildren have the same constitutional rights in regard to fair procedure and due process as every other citizen of this "republic". Daily across the country teachers in positions of authority violate those rights. It is just another form of child abuse. We have an ombudsman for childrens rights who is failing to deal with similar issues as this which have been referred to her office. Here is a link to her:

http://www.oco.ie/

by Derek Wed Jan 18, 2006 22:54

Hi
I think what your doing is really important. Every second level protest I've ever heard of there has been punishment. It's a disgrace and crazy that this oppression happens often.
Your school should have a proper student counsel with some power. As far as I know the gov are making it compulsory.

We had a protest in my school. Christian Brother. A bit of a walk out about 2 years ago over the Iraqi Occupation. We tried to fight getting detention. They know that giving you detention is bull, but they have to keep spirits down and student quiet. You know how it is.
Push you rights it as far as you can and hope fully they let it drop when they see it could get out of hand with bad press. Its the last thing the school want.
Some really good advice above.
Also there will defo be staff on your side. You should ask them to help out.

Keep up the good work!

by teacher Thu Jan 19, 2006 15:21

You:Go to Socialist Youth and Socialist Party (of which I am a member) and get the public representatives on our side.

Me: A whole one TD

You-Go to Indy media etc and get public on our side

Me: Indymedia..public... you're having a laugh

You-Through USS get other schools and students on our side as well as possibly our solicitor

Me: for what? you were supposed to be in school, covered by schools insurance, the teachers have a duty of care on you while you are in school

You-Organise a SHAME campaign - local media, letters, emails, phone calls, using Indymedia, Socialist Party, USS, TUs, public reps etc

Me: sooooooo 1970's

You-If they still don't back down the we believe people should be willing to step this up. This may be an oppurtune time for us to win our right to protest.

me: God bless the idealism of youth, no one will be interested in your storm in a tea cup....

by pat c Thu Jan 19, 2006 18:02

i reckon that really was a teacher. the grammer and sytax were appalling and the debating style was juvenile. logic was missing completely: could only be a teacher.

by trainee teacher Thu Jan 19, 2006 20:01

pat should know better. the whole anti-teacher view should not be coming from any activist in the workers' movement. teachers are skilled workers like others in the working class. attacking them for being teachers is pathetic. why not attack right-wing teachers as being right-wingers don't attack them for being teachers. i could take the position that all civil servants (pat c's work colleagues) are write-offs because a civil servant was rude to me when getting my social welfare or that they have more education. but that would be completely wrong and workerist.

by guydebordisdead Thu Jan 19, 2006 22:51

It doesn't matter how working class teachers are, some of them are little more than cops in a class-room.

Some are great though.

by Cian Thu Jan 19, 2006 23:23 ComradeCian at eircom dot net 085-7077919

Hey,

We have decided to get the ball rolling tomorrow. All people in union positions, public positions etc or teachers themselves etc. are asked to call the principal (Ms. de Brun) tomorrow on

(061) 454828 or 455251

If you would please email me at the above address when you have called, outlining who you are, what position, what arguments you used, what response you got etc or at least just a minimum notice that you called. Thanks.

The other thing we are getting off the ground tomorrow is the letter writing campaign. Below is a sample letter that you can copy and paste into word, print off sign and post it off. We think that letters send the strongest signal. Faxes are also good though as they can arrive straight away. Below is both the address and fax of the school. As a last resort email is also helpful, though much weaker as they can easily be deleted unread etc.

Ardscoil Ris,
North circular road,
Limerick

Fax (061): 325035

Email: [email protected]

Once again, everyone that posts/faxes/emails them, could you forward a copy to me as well? Also, feel free to change the letter to suit you or write your own (in fact that is better), especially in the case where you may have extra influence (e.g. union official, some org., you are a teacher etc.) a customized letter would be great.

___________________________________

##Your Address##
The Principal,
Ardscoil Ris,
North Circular Road,
Limerick.
20th January 2006

RE: The punishing of students for attending the Irish Ferries protest

Dear Ms. de Brun,
I am writing to complain about the issuing of detention to three students in your school due to their involvement in the vital Trade Union protest against Irish Ferries slave labour plans and the Race to the Bottom on the 9th of December last year.
I believe it is a fundamental democratic right of everyone to protest, especially in cases as important as this one. The students that took part in this protest, sacrificing part of their own education, should be commended not punished. Considering the problem of apathy among different layers of society, it should be the role of schools to encourage students developing an interest in societal issues such as this, isn’t that after all what the CSPE course is meant to be about?
I also believe that it would be hypocritical for a union member to punish a student for taking part in this protest, given that the teacher’s unions and student’s unions supported this protest. Also, considering the ASTI knew of the plans for students to attend the various protests around the country, and registered no complaint, it makes no sense that these students should now be punished.
The reality is that the students taking part in this protest had extremely valid reasons to miss some of their school time. After all, young workers find themselves faced with a possible future of the slave labour wages that Irish Ferries were imposing and young workers also find themselves working for extremely low wages. I therefore strongly urge you to reconsider this case and to recognise that this is an exceptional one, thereby cancelling all punishments.

Yours truly,

##Signature##
__________________
##Your Name##,
##Your position, union, contact details etc##



___________________________________

This is just the one step of this campaign. If this doesn't work then we shall throw on tore letters, newspaper reports, radio interviews etc. We have two weeks so after the initial phase organisations/unions can then start coming out in official support as well.

Fundamentally the question is over whether they recognise that the protest is 'due cause' to miss some of OUR education. Also, there is the bigger issue of the right of student to protest. Young people are practically being denied the right to a vote, the right to a voice, the right to organise and the right to protest.

Thanks again,
Your Fraternally,
Cian

by guydebordisdead Thu Jan 19, 2006 23:45

You're like a dog with a bone, do the detention - learn the true nature of the state/education system.

Organise for an end to all detentions..

=P

by pat c Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:08

"pat should know better. the whole anti-teacher view should not be coming from any activist in the workers' movement. "

please cool it. i'm not suggesting that all teachers are like that but i'm sure that even you will admit that all too many teachers are renowned for their sarcasm.

"teachers are skilled workers like others in the working class. attacking them for being teachers is pathetic."

have you got no sense of proportion or sense of humour? do you not know when a comment is partially tongue in cheek?

"why not attack right-wing teachers as being right-wingers "

wouldnt that be a tautology?

"don't attack them for being teachers."

now even you would have to admit that some teachers are rightwing.

"i could take the position that all civil servants (pat c's work colleagues) are write-offs"

many civil servants, particularly in the management grades are rightwing.

"because a civil servant was rude to me when getting my social welfare"

when i was working in social welfare a lot of civil servants there had a very bad attitude towards their clients. if i was to return to social welfare as a manager then i am sure i would be in conflict with staff there rather quickly over this.

"or that they have more education. but that would be completely wrong and workerist."

i think civil servants require more training on focusing on the clients needs. CLIENT not Customer, calling someone a customer suggests they can take their business elsewhere.

Teachers are not perfect. Some are great, some are competent, some are unfit to teach. the same is true of all workers.

the problem is that teachers react in a hysterical manner to any criticism.

by tautology. Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:13

"why not attack right wing teachers for being right wing" wouldn't be a tautology. You could attack right wing teachers for being members of the church of Xavier (personal capacity) or for being your sworn enemies, in which case different reasons are given for the assault but the character and type adjectives of the teachers "right wing" don't change.

by pat c Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:42

i admit i was a bit off there. i bow (woof!) to your superior parsing.

by Oisin - USS Fri Jan 20, 2006 13:02 ussvp at hotmail dot com

Hey Everyone,

Perhaps you could do us a favour and let us know by post here if you have phoned the school or faxed a letter to the school.

Thanks

Oisin

by Oisin - USS Fri Jan 20, 2006 13:07 ussvp at hotmail dot com

Hey Everyone,

Perhaps you could do us a favour and let us know by post here if you have phoned the school or faxed a letter to the school.

Thanks

Oisin

by Simeon Davies Fri Jan 20, 2006 18:51 simeondav at gmail dot com

it is good to hear a felow student with nearly the same delema.
myself and another stundent tried to organise a protest on the day of the national protest. we unfortunatly had to back off because of presure from vice principal. his argument was that because we where not members of the students council we did not have the right to organise a protest of the students. unfortunatly we had to back down. due to to lack of time we did not know where we stood in the situation.

by writer Fri Jan 20, 2006 19:05

The Principal,
Ardscoil Ris,
North Circular Road,
Limerick.
20th January 2006

RE: The punishing of students for attending the Irish Ferries protest

Dear Ms. de Brun,
I am writing to congratulate you for issuing of detention to three students in your school due to their involvement in the Trade Union protest against Irish Ferries legitimate plans and the promoting Racism against eastern European workers on the 9th of December last year.

I believe it is a fundamental democratic right of everyone to protest, except in cases as unimportant as this one. The students that took part in this protest, sacrificing part of their own education, should be punished for breach of obvious school rules.

Considering the problem of apathy among different layers of society, it should be the role of schools to encourage students that socialism is a lame duck isn’t that after all what the history course is meant to be about?

Some would believe that it would be hypocritical for a union member to punish a student for taking part in this protest, given that the teacher’s unions and student’s unions supported this protest. However if something happened to him on this march their parents would have sued your school.

Also, considering the ASTI had a vague idea of the plans for students to attend the various protests around the country, and registered no complaint, it makes sense that these students should now be punished.

The reality is that the students taking part in this protest had no valid reasons to miss some of their school time. I therefore strongly urge you to reconsider this case and to recognise that this is an exceptional one, thereby doubling all punishments.

Yours truly,

X
__________________
Letter Writer
Missionary position

by pat c Fri Jan 20, 2006 19:19

Ignore the rantings of writer above.

I sent this via email, i made some changes to your text.

The Principal,
Ardscoil Ris,
North Circular Road,
Limerick.
20th January 2006


Dear Ms. de Brun,

I am writing to complain about the issuing of detention to three students in your school due to their involvement in the vital Trade Union protest against Irish Ferries slave labour plans and the Race to the Bottom on the 9th of December last year.

I believe it is a fundamental democratic right of everyone to protest, especially in cases as important as this one. The students that took part in this protest, sacrificing part of their own education, should be commended not punished. Considering the problem of apathy among different layers of society, it should be the role of schools to encourage students developing an interest in societal issues such as this, isn’t that after all what the CSPE course is meant to be about? These students were taking a stand against the exploitation of immigrant workers and in support of Irish workers rights.

I also believe that it would be hypocritical for a union member to punish a student for taking part in this protest, given that the teacher’s unions and student’s unions supported this protest. Also, considering the ASTI knew of the plans for students to attend the various protests around the country, and registered no complaint, it makes no sense that these students should now be punished. Do you think that ASTI members should be punished for taking part in industrial action? Teachers have achieved their present salaries and working conditions through a willingness to take part in industrial action, up to and including walkouts, down through the years.

The reality is that the students taking part in this protest had extremely valid reasons to miss some of their school time. After all, young workers find themselves faced with a possible future of the slave labour wages that Irish Ferries were imposing and young workers also find themselves working for extremely low wages. I therefore strongly urge you to reconsider this case and to recognise that this is an exceptional one, thereby cancelling all punishments.

School students have rights as well, you should acknowledge this.

Yours Sincerely,

by pat c Fri Jan 20, 2006 19:28

it looks as if the email may have bounced. this is what i got back. check the address please.

pat

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at novmaila.host.ie.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. vpopmail (#5.1.1)

--- Enclosed are the original headers of the message.


From:
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: The punishing of students for attending the Irish Ferries protest
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:17 PM

by Cian Fri Jan 20, 2006 22:08 ComradeCian at eircom dot net

Hey,
Thnks to everyone so far, It seems that there have been agood number of emilas sen as i have got some Cc-ed to me. Again, anyone who calls, posts, faxes, emails etc please email me and give details.

Is this problem with the email adress still happening? Are others experienceing it?

PLEASE USE BOTH THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADRESSES:

mailto:[email protected]

mailto:[email protected]

Please check is site regularily so as to here any other details posted. I'm checking out to see which of the above emails works. It could be a problem if it is the second one as i think most people used the other.

Anyway, some people called the school today to complain. This is what we want to concentrate on again on Monday. We will hopefully have people from the local trade unions, the Trades Council, teachers, local councillors, possibly locl TDs, Joe Higgans, some media call on Monday.

If you are a teacher or student or have any position in a union, party, public body, organisation etc then it would be greatly appreciated for you too to call. This has the biggest impact and is vital for 'stage 1' if you want to call it that. We hope that this canbe resolved without a media coverage etc, but we are not afraid to make this fully public if possible/neccisary. "By any means neccisary" as Malcom X said.

Also, please mention this to friends. Please bring it up at wrk, bring it up in whatever organisation you are in, bring it t the atention of you Union branch secretary, ask them to get the union officials to respond etc.

If you do call, please still send a letter/fax/email. If you live in Limerick - why not hand deliver your letter?

Ad again, please email me with the details of all contact you have with the school.

Thanks a million,
Cian

by SCC Fri Jan 20, 2006 22:37

Solidarity from D.G.S Dundalk, we have problems too with oppression in education system.

by Cian Fri Jan 20, 2006 23:08

SORRY... there is a mistake above.

The email adresses to send the email to:

mailto:[email protected]
mailto:[email protected]

and then Bcc-ed or just Cc-ed to:
[email protected]

If you have already sent an email to one of the above adresses please forward t to the other as there is a possibility their email is broken.

Thanks,
Cian

by Aran Sat Jan 21, 2006 17:37

I have just reaquainted myself with a documentary about Chomski based on his book "Manufacturing Consent" (masterpiece!).It begins with a comparison of the schoolyard bully to the international imperialist.Keep it up.

by Cian Mon Jan 23, 2006 00:19 ComradeCian at eircom dot net 085-7077919

Hey,

The plan for Monday is that Union Officials, public reps, teachers, college students, representatives of different organisations, some local media etc call the school to register their anger at this punishment etc. Also, some emails, faxes and letters will also arrive.

We are hoping that after different, influentaial, people complain and explain to them why they are complaining the principal may then reconsider and recognise that this is an exceptional case, that the Irish Constitution et etc guarantees right to protest, and that it is hypocrital for a union member to punish us given the sircumstances and will then cancel our punisment and wipe this off our record (the effect this has on our record is in some ways more sinister as attending and future protest with thisonour record could result in extremely serious punishments).

If the principal at this stage still does not recognise that we had a valid reason to leave school (i.e. if she doesnt recognise that we had a valid reason to be on the protest) and insists on keeping the punishment then we and others will issue public statments. At this point we will call on all Unions, youth groups, political organisations etc to issue public statments. This will hopefully include local and national public reps, local and national union officials etc., local and national organisations etc etc. This will hopefully get us some local and national (apparently my phrase of the hour!) media anttention. We would prefer not to have to drag this into the public forum and harm the schools reputation but "what we speak is the truth and what we seek is justice".

Now, i issue anothe plee to people for solidarity. Please call the school and complain (Numbers: (061) 454828 or 455251).

Also please send a letter (see sample a few posts above)/fax/email. Again I ask that all communication with the school is reported to me at the above email adress so that i can tell the others and we can keep morale high etc.

I shall end with a quote which i have been using to keep morale high:

"When injustice is law, resistance is duty" (and even inour case there are perfectly 'lawful' reasons not to punish us, and possibly it would even be unlaful to punish us! Anyway...)

Thanks a million to you all,
Cian

PS Spread the wrd - friends, union officials, public reps, etc etc...Also: keep an eye on here - updates and further requests will follow. Thanks again.

by Mary Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:50

Are you sure, Cian, that your time wouldn't have been better spent in school? Given how appalling your spelling and grammar are, your teachers may well have been acting with your best interests at heart.

Just so that this isn't dismissed as an entirely bitchy comment, you should bear in mind that your 'campaign' will be taken more seriously if you're able to properly articulate your points. If you don't take the time to read over your points before posting them, then why should it be assumed that you actually care about the issue at hand (rather than just trying to get out of detention)? At least you seem to have run a SpellCheck on the letter you drafted...

You broke the school rules by absenting yourself without permission; now deal with the fallout. You can't claim to be surprised that you're getting detention. If this case was so exceptional, and if you had sufficient time to gather a group of 30 people to go with you, surely you had enough time to get a short note giving you permission to leave school on that day? If all of you had done that, there would be no wind in the school's sails, and this wouldn't be an issue.

by Legal eagle Mon Jan 23, 2006 15:02

what Cian and his colleagues suffered ws summary justice. They were not given a hearing where the charges against them and the evidence to support those charges could be challenged. That is a breach of fair procedure which all citizens of this state are guaranteed by our constitution. There is no such thing in our law as irrevocable discretionary powers. Our schools are effectively being run under the equivalent of martial law. The asti and the tui should be ashamed to participate in a system which denies the constitutional rights of our children. You can be damn sure if a teacher suffered such summary discipline from the school authorities they wou;ldn't be long about trotting into the high court to argue their case(ably supported by their union, no doubt)

Double standards. But sure then Mary, they are only kids and should do as their elders tell them!!! yeah right.

by Jane Horgan-Jones - UCD Students' Union Mon Jan 23, 2006 16:37

Email of support sent. Good luck with it.

by Khalid Farouk Mon Jan 23, 2006 17:07

Trade unionist and Socialists should not evoke the constitution to defend their democratic rights of protest and free expression etc. The constitution is a bourgeois document that has in its core the preservation of capitalism. It is a reactionary document that defends the right to private property, its anti women with very restrictive divorce law, a ban on abortion, refers to christianity and of course has undemocratic institutions such as the courts, Senate, Council of State and the Presidency.

Socialists should not base themselves on such a document it is bourgeois. I'm not saying that it cant be used to win certain concessions but Socialists should base themselves on it and make appeals to it. Socialists should make their appeal to other workers on the basis that it is in the interests of the workers movement to defend democractic rights.

by pat c Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:03

you seem to suffer from an extreme case of ultra-leftism. you have swallowed too many textbooks without having managed to digest any of them. socialists should make whatever use they can of bourgeois laws and constitutions. no apologies and no illusions.

by Khalid Farouk Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:14

Read my post more carefully Pat, you will find I do make the point that we should use bourgeois constitutions if we can but have no illusions in them.

by pat c Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:18

its your whole didactic tone i'm criticising as well. if you want to get through to people: 1. dont sound like a teacher, 2. dont use outmoded language.

by Khaild Farouk Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:23

you really do seem to have an issue with teachers. The language I use is the language I use. English is not my native tongue, Arabic is so I apologise if I come across a bit strange, it is difficult to master a foreign language. whatever the tone I use is unimportant, look at the issues I raise. I raised the issue that the Irish constitution is a conservative, pro capitalist, pro church, anti worker and anti woman document. Socialists can use it to a certian extent but it is limited. If you agree then why are you challenging me so vigoursly? do you disagree with me?

by Cian Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:29 ComradeCian at eircom dot net 085-7077919

Hey,
Well it seems a good few tried to call today, the school has told them that they are not accepting calls on this topic, also from now on:

ALL LETTERS ETC TO THE BOARD OF MANAGMENT not he principal, thats what they asked.

Well, its obvious that we are going to have to issue press statements etc now. Its unfortunate but this is a crucial precident. I have been contacted by people who were suspended but didn't contact anyone and just did the suspension, very depressing really. But hopefully here we can set down a marker that attacks on youth rights will not be tolerated, and if some media coverage is got then the message can spread to other students. Also, the long term effect of this punishment on our school punishment record is very big.

I ask again that all people willing would call the school to complain. But obviously emails, faxes and letters are now most neccisary. Pass the info o to others, union officials, public reps, students, teachers, friends, family, media, everyone.

Thanks,
Cian

by pat c Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:31

dont try that one on me. this isnt about english not being your native tongue. here are some school students looking for help and all you can do is give them a lecture about the constitution. yes its reactionary, but i dont stay awake at night thinking about it. it doesnt generally stop me from managing to fight the system.

if i seem to go on about teachers so much its because this whole thread is about teachers who have bullied school students.

by Teach Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:31

Please use a spell checker

by Khalid Farouk Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:38

I fully support these students. The attack on their democratic rights is an utter disgrace and needs to be opposed by all workers. I've expressed my opposition to this outrage by email to the school.

I just saw that a few posters, not the students, seemed to have illusions in the law and the constitution. I simply pointed out the error of the tactic of relying on bourgeois law. This is something that the students are not doing, my posts were not aimed at them.

As for my language, I don't think it is reasonable to expect me to be completely fluent. If you think it is, I challenge you to write in your second language and get the tone exactly correct.

by Cian Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:58

Hey,
I do realise my spelling is quite bad. Its a mixture of me being naturally bad at spelling, me being in a rush, the fact that i am just now developing speed typing skills and other things. To anone increadibly offended by my spelling I applogise. I, however, refuse to believe that someones primary problem with me would be my spelling. I think its just being use as a cheap shot. I am perfectly capable of expressing myself but obviously my head wors faster than my hands.

Sorry,
Thanks again to all supporters,
Yours fraternally,
Cian

P.S. I agree that a purely legalistic attempt would be a distraction and would be much weaker. Anything that can be thrown at them (even the constitution, which I do recognise is not exactly a "workerig class constitution" to say the least! And yes, increadibly anti-worker, sexist etc.) is helpful, so long as the focus remains on people power, not on law. I shall remain neutral in the debate over expression as it seems unimportant, but i agree that ultra-left jargon wouldn't hel us if we went around using it .

by pat c Mon Jan 23, 2006 19:07

its your terminology which i was criticising , as i pointed out before. not tenses , syntax or parsing of sentences.

by legal eagle Tue Jan 24, 2006 00:55

If you read my previous posts you would see that I said it's their law use it against them. To suggest that we should not use every weapon available to us is not only ridiculous but implies a childish and naieve approach.

You'll be telling us next we should refuse to recognise the courts and not accept social welfare.

Get real.

by Damien Tue Jan 24, 2006 15:38

Cian,

For a student to get a proper education they obviously need to actually attend school.

For this reason it is important that children are not allowed leave school whenever they want, no matter how noble the cause. We all know kids would just use the excuse of attending a demonstration somewhere and never go to school.

Many working people are also unable to attend demonstrations such as these if they wish to keep their jobs. Consider yourself as working at being a student.

It's certainly not unconstitutional, its just life.

by Cian Tue Jan 24, 2006 21:38 ComradeCian at eircom dot net 085-7077919

Hey,

Our story is on the front page of the local paper, the Limerick Chronicle, today.

Also, Jan O'Sullivan, local Labour Party TD and TD Education spokesperson has given us her solidarity and is going to write in and call and hopfeully issue a press statement.

As well as this local Labour Party and Youth councillor Kieran Walsh has supported us, is issuing a press statement, calling and writing.

Labour Youth have also come out in support of us.

Other people who have given us support is the Socialist Party (inluding letters from Joe and the Councillors and a call from Cllr. Mick Barry in cork), Karen O'Loughlin, secretary of the Limerick Trades Council and Gregor Kerr of the WSM, the USS as well as different teachers, students etc etc.

People we are hoeful of recieving support from are: Trades Council Chair and BATU branch secretary Mike MacNamara, the other local Labour Party councillors, Labour party HQ, the trades council offically as well as all members ( attended a meeting of this recently representing the USS), USI, ICTU Youth, ASTI and the other unions.

Hopefully as more press statements come out our pressence in the media can continue, next step local radio probably.

Phone calls, emails, faxes and letters (see sample and contact info above) are still neccisary.

Thanks,
Cian

PS The principal is quoted as saying that the allegation that we were punished for attending the Irish Ferries protest is "a 100% lie", we were in fact punished for leaving school to attend it! If only William Martin-Murphy thought of tha one! "Their not being beaten because they're on strike, its cause they aren't working!". She also said that the matter has been refered to the school solicitor... possibly a threat against either me or the paper for libel... Can't see that working! Thanks again everyone.

by AY Tue Jan 24, 2006 21:51

We support you too, we said so, very early in this page.

by Cian Tue Jan 24, 2006 22:20

Hey,

Yes, Anarchist Youth also support us have done so from the very start, before Labour Party people etc. They also, I do believe, organised young people to attend the protest but i amay be wrong. I am very sorry for not mentioning ye above. Hopefully ye have sent off some letters or emails and mentioned it to others.

Sorry again for not saying, its just I havent been talkin to ye by phone or email.

Thanks a million,
Cian

by UCD student Tue Jan 24, 2006 23:03

a number of members of the UCDSU Council sent protest letters and emails to the school also. I think it has been a good campaign of solidarity.

by Cian Tue Jan 24, 2006 23:28

Hey,

Thanks again to the UCD SU. Hopefully some more members and officials can help out, pass this info around and to other SU if you can.

Thanks again,
Cian

by Damien Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:32

Do UCDSU seriously propose making school attendance optional for second level pupils?

Do UCDSU accept that this would have a negative impact on the education of second level students?

by UCDSU member Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:34

I recall there was policy on secondary schools pasted about 2 years ago. I think it said that the SU supports a union for secondary students. On attendance the UCDSU is opposed to compulsary attendance at college lectures without the consent of the class. To be honest it does not matter what UCDSU policy is. These students have a right to be active in society. Why shouldn't these people be treated with maturity. They are old enough to go out and work why should they be disciplined for exercising their views. To argue for the compulsion of 16, 17 and 18 year olds is backward and has disrespect to young people.

by UCDSU Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:13

I'd like to know more on the official UCDSU policy on this.

If they believe second level school attendence should not be compulsory it would be a very controversial position.....

Can anyone confirm this?

by UCDSU member Wed Jan 25, 2006 18:47

What I said was that existing UCDSU policy says the SU is in favour of a secondary school students union. I said nothing about attendance. The only thing in UCDSU policy regarding attendance relates to compulsary attendance and attendance records in lectures. Should be on the SU website somewhere. Passed in April 2004 from what I can remember as part of a general policy review.

by ? Wed Jan 25, 2006 19:35

Do UCDSU not pass a motion of support for the Irish Ferries workers? Did they not back the protests?

by pat molloy Wed Jan 25, 2006 19:38

Who else is backing the students? Cian, do you have a list of the trade unionists, students union people, organisations, branches, TDs, Councillors etc?

by Cian Thu Jan 26, 2006 00:38

Hey,
Sorry, I've been busy today and away from the PC so its late no so i wont be posting a lot.

Today we got further support from another local Labour Party Councillor, James Houlihan. We also recieved individual support from people in ICTU and ICTU youth, who are, I believe, discussing it officially. Tomorrow there should bepress releases from the 2 local concillors, hopefully Jan O'Sullivan is going to write a press release as well as the letter. Also, the Independant and the Examiner contacted us today for tomorrow I believe, but I wasn't talkng to them myself, they were talking to the USS.

Hopefully as ore press releases come out the media eye will be kept on and local radio etc wll take a look at it all. The councillors are also going to co-ordinate some media work.

I will post more tomorrow.

Keep up the phone calls, emails, letters etc - if you havent sent one yet then please do, see the sample above. If you have written consider calling.

OH, it has also been passed on to Siptu branches here, as well as the central office. Still waiting for full response from the differnt union head offices and Labour Party HQ, they all take a long time to process info though. I'm told it is being discussed by the unions etc.

Thanks,
Cian

by Limerick Socialist Youth - Socialist Youth Thu Jan 26, 2006 00:44 SocialistYouthLimerick at skynet dot ie 087-1274315

Below is a copy of our press release, sent out on Monday.

Socialist Youth Supports Ardscoil Students’ Right to Protest


Three students from Ardscoil Ris in Limerick are being punished for
attending the mass protest against Irish Ferries slave labour plans and
the 'Race to the Bottom' -- the largest demonstration organised by Trade
Unions in Limerick and nationally for decades: over 100,000 taking to the
streets nationwide, with over 10,000 in Limerick. The protest showed the
huge amount of anger that exists about the constant attacks on wages and
conditions which affects all people in society including young people.

Limerick Socialist Youth spokesperson Ashling Golden condemned the
school’s victimisation of the students saying: “I fully support all
students who attended the Irish Ferries protest. It is the right of all
students to protest and all attempts to punish students for protesting
must be actively opposed by everyone -- like all anti-union laws must be.”

Ms Golden went on to say: “Wage competition and the 'Race to the Bottom'
is a serious threat to all young people as it is our future wages and
conditions that are being attacked in this brutal attempt to increase
profits.”

The students concerned have complained to their school about this
punishment and are asking others to do the same by phoning the school on
061-454828 and sending a letter of complaint (a sample letter is available
on www.IndyMedia.ie).

Ms Golden concluded by saying: “In current society young people are faced
with discrimination on all fronts: punishment for protesting, no vote, no
say in their schools or workplaces, pitiful wages and repressive laws like
ASBOs. I feel that it is young people like those that protested against
Irish Ferries and now against this punishment who show us how to combat
these problems; through organisation and struggle!”

by supp Thu Jan 26, 2006 00:45

I know you probably prefer sorting out these issues yourself but I thought one word from your parents(who were aware of what your were doing and therefore no AWOL) and detentions could be cancelled, what happened with your principal after the last one.

by Damien Thu Jan 26, 2006 13:36

As usual on indymedia we only hear people "showing solidarity", complaining and protesting, without suggesting an alternative. While it is obvious that you want no disciplinary action to be taken against Cian the real issue is what procedure should be followed the next time a secondary school student wants to skip class.

Many secondary students lack the maturity to understand that attendance in school is vital, and try to skip class whenever the opportunity presents itself, in doing so they cheat themselves in ways they cannot even understand. If you believe Cian should be free to skip school whenever he wants, do you not think his education would suffer terribly?

Attendance in school is directly linked to the quality of education, which students receive, and I firmly believe that a solid education is key to forming any sort of political understanding. The education of our young is probably the most important function of society, as it is really the only way in which positive change can come about.

Denying students a proper education by allowing them skip classes is the ultimate in short sightednes, as ultimately education is the only way problems such as those Cian were protesting about can be prevented.

Cian, perhaps it is better to lose the battle and win the war?

by anarchist against school system (pers. cap.) - Anarchist Youth Thu Jan 26, 2006 13:57

The principal function of school is widely accepted – amongst revolutionaries at least – as being the reproduction of the social relations of capital.

http://www.impassionedinsurrection.info/youthliberation/home.html

by Trotwatch Thu Jan 26, 2006 14:08

Even Trotsky went in the mitch.

Trotsky Mitching From School.

by Damien Thu Jan 26, 2006 14:43

anarchist against school system - while you present the anarchist position on the function on school you fail to suggest a solution. What do you suggest? No schools at all? how would people learn even basic literacy skills?


Trotwatch - You also have failed to suggest an alternative. I take it from your post that you do not believe in compulsory schooling......Trotsky was well educated for his time, do you really believe he would have achieved so much without this schooling?

by Trotwatch Thu Jan 26, 2006 15:42

What makes you think I admire Trotsky? Admittedly he did complete Second Level but did not go on to University, this was due to his revolutionary activity.

I do not believe that attendance at school should be optional but students deserve more rights. They should be able to assess their teachers performance. They should have an input to any rules.

Teachers as it is are over paid. They should be paid the Average Industrial Wage. Their holidays are far too long. All workers should have good holidays, so I would say that teachers should be given 4 weeks leave in the summer with a week at Easter and christmas. For the rest of the school holiday periods teachers should be required to teach immigrants and the unemployed.

by calvinist Thu Jan 26, 2006 15:56

Some teachers are little more than cops in the classroom.

When teachers stop making us memorise pointless facts and start treating young people with respect, that's when the real education can begin.

Education that is not just preparation for a career or college.

by Damien Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:16

Trotwatch - This thread is not about teachers. It is about students being punished for skipping school. If you believe, as I do, that school should be mandatory it would follow that you agree with the punishment.

calvinist - You are straying from the topic. This issue does not relate to quality of teaching. Its quite simple - either school attendance is compulsory, or it is not. What is your position?

by Trotwatch Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:16

I think this is an issue for negotiation between students and teachers. If ICTU call a day of protest then there should be agreement that a certain number of students may attend. The same goes for other demos called by say local Trades Councils or USI or the School Students Union (cant think of exact title).

by Cian Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:28

Hey,

I reject that this issue is about should education be compulsary. The fact of the matter is that we are in voluntary education! We could drop out if we wanted to, or miss days (I believe this is the case anyway). The other thing is that this is hugely different from mitching school. Workers left their workplaces to attend the protest - what about them? Should they lose their job? What if an employer tried to do that? Are young people not entitled to be political, are we not allowed a union, not allowed the right to protest or expression? We are perfectly entitled to that, but schools like mine as well as laws like ASBOs seek to stop that and these must be actively opposed. It is my education, it is my future, it is my right - it is the right of my class (pun intended).

I will be posting up a more informative post today giving updates etc. but i just thought i should reply to this as it is particularly annoying. One last thing: as to any insitance that i should 'stick to my schooling - i seem to need it' I am at the top of my class in most subjects, anda nyway - this is completely irrelevant.

Thanks again to every supporter for your support, it is helping.

Keep the letters, faxes, emails, calls, union support, political support, media coverage etc coming, spread te word.

Thanks,
Cian

by Damien Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:36

Trotwatch,

You seem to think that it is within the power of teachers to excuse students from school - it is not.

The state is legally obliged to ensure an education is provided to children, and teachers, as agents of the state are providers of this service.

This is not a case where a teacher is being unreasonable, they are doing their job, and upholding the law of the land which demands compulsory school attendance.

by Damien Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:48

"The fact of the matter is that we are in voluntary education"

Possibly not - It is obligatory for students to receive schooling until the age of 16.

"We could drop out if we wanted to, or miss days (I believe this is the case anyway)"

Not if you are under 16

"Workers left their workplaces to attend the protest - what about them? Should they lose their job? What if an employer tried to do that? "

Many employees would face severe disciplinary action if they left their place of work. Examples would include nurses, doctors, guards, army personnel .... lots of people really. When you join the workforce there is a good chance you will be prevented from disappearing every so often to protest about something.

by Cian Thu Jan 26, 2006 18:04

Hey,
We are in voluntary education so, we are not under 16.

I go home for lunch, if on my wa home I as knocked down and had to go to hospital I would obviously not be able to come to school after lunch. If the ules were applied 'black&white' I would recieve a detention for this. But it wouldn't be. They would recognise that I had a valid reason to miss part of school.

In previous incidents I have been attempted to be punished, on avice from a teacher is skipped the detention, was brought in from of a dispilinary committe to discuss this. They found that I had due cause not to attend the detention (as I shouldn't have been given it in the first place) and thus I was allowed go without having to redo the detention or seve one for missing it.

This too is an exeptional case, it too is a case of due cause. The question is whether they recognise that I had a valid reason for missing school i.e. wether I had a valid reason to attend the protest and whether the protest is a valid reason. That is one 'legalistic' argument we are putting forward.

An other is that the right to protest is much more fundamental than other rules, it is in the Irish Constitution, the EU charter of student rights and the UN charter of Human Rights. The real argument, however, ids the political one - Students have a right to protest, and we will struggle for it. Many Trade Unionists, activists and officials, party activists, officals and pulic reps, students and teachers recognise this.

Again - there will be a proper report for today soon.

Thanks,
Cian

by harold Thu Jan 26, 2006 18:17

your headmaster was dead right - without a note the school has no insurance on you... better still you should have been in school stay there study and be a top executive in the largest multi national in the world - earn millions and don't worry about this rubbish - 'tis just a phase...oh and UCDSU socialist department are a shower of D4 rich kids - playing at socialism...

by Damien Thu Jan 26, 2006 18:22

"I go home for lunch, if on my wa home I as knocked down and had to go to hospital I would obviously not be able to come to school after lunch. If the ules were applied 'black&white' I would recieve a detention for this. But it wouldn't be. They would recognise that I had a valid reason to miss part of school. "

Again you are wrong - If the rules were applied black and white you would not receive a punishment - The Education Act makes provision for absence of school due to sickness.

"This too is an exeptional case, it too is a case of due cause. "

I'm not sure where you get this notion of "due cause" and exceptional cases from - The Education Act clearly outlines the acceptable reasons for absence from school. These are essentially that the school is too far away, or that the child is sick. How is a protest exceptional? They are on every day.

"Students have a right to protest"

Only if they also attend school.

It is worth noting that parents are legally bound to ensure children attend school, and that all absence are recorded on a national database which is maintained by NEWB

You also seem to think that because you are at the top of your class you should receive special treatment. If you don't attend school properly you do yourself a grave injustice no matter how clever you think you are. Also your attitude is quite selfish as you don't consider the needs of the others who left with you......they may suffer much more by missing days of school

by Cian Fri Jan 27, 2006 17:35 ComradeCian at eircom dot net 085-7077919

Hey,

Sorry about not getting to post up here yesterday, I was too busy with other things. There have been significant changes in the last 2 days, but still not clear.

Yesterday when I came home for lunch there a letter had arrived from the school for my parents saying: "Thank you for your letter giving permission to your on Cian for hi absence o 09 December 2005." That was all it said. It seems to be in response to a complaint note my parents put in last week when we got the detention notice (our note as put in on Tuesday).

At this point it was completely unclear what this letter was, it could have just been a bare letter which meant we all were still being punished, it could have been the vehicle by which the school was recognising that we were right to leave (cancelling all 3 of our punishments) or it could have been a divisive tool allowing one or two of us off but still punishing the other(s).

My dad wrote a response note asking whether the new note invalidates the detention and I brought that back to school. I gave it to the dean of discipline who refused to answer my question over what it meant and who else got them, telling me to go to the principal. She sent it was nothing to do with her and sent me back to the dean of discipline who again refused to clarify and told me to interpret it as I see fit. So I was very unclear at this pint and aware that it could just be a red herring. With that in mind we decided to continue on the campaign until we had it clearly said that none of us were getting detention.

Then last night it became clear that the other two got letters saying "Am I correct in assuming now that you gave permission to your son to be absent on 09 December 2005?” This could be an olive branch. Their parents are replying with something along the lines: "I am aware and supportive of my son leaving school on 9th-dec-05 to attend the Irish Ferries protest. I agree with his decision and recognise his right to protest therefore supporting his absence.” obviously that is not a direct quote but tat is what the idea shall hopefully be. Both of their parents will write the letters. It is possible that this will then be used as the alleyway and justification for their retreat. Unfortunately we are still unable to get clarification from the school. My dad called the school asking to speak to someone about the note he sent in yesterday. He is still waiting to be called back.

Unfortunately one of the 2 forgot their note today, and the dean wasn't able to talk to the other as he gave him his note so we are still unclear. The possibility that we have to be very mindful of is that this could be, as I said, a Red Herring, a spanner to the works. They could be hoping that we will now stop and wait to se the outcome and therefore they would be in a stronger position, possibly continuing the punishment leaving us having to remount the whole thing. The fact that the letters are so vague, that I can get no clarification and that my parents also can't seems to suggest that this isn't a breakthrough. We will have to see but we will have to keep up the campaign until they actually say the punishment is cancelled. Another twist is that today Joe Higgins, who called and wrote to the school, received a letter saying that the matter was being referred to the school solicitor. That letter must have been sent around the same day as our ones. That supports the idea tat they are still keeping the punishment.

As I said above - we must keep up the pressure and the campaign. We know have the school saying that I did have permission to leave the school but not saying that that invalidates me being punished for 'leaving school without permission'. They have at the very least weakened their case; hopefully they have seen sense and followed their Christian morals to justice...

In other news: this story was in the Examiner. I think the Independent may have also covered it; it is in the Limerick Leader county edition too. I am unsure but I think Cllr. Kieran Walsh, and Cllr. James Houlihan have sent out press releases recently. Hopefully statements may come out by Jan O'Sullivan. ASTI and others are still discussion this. Other high-ups in the Union movement have said they will go about applying pressure to the school.

We must keep letters, emails, and faxes and even phone calls up on Monday. Again, pass the information on to individuals, unions, officials etc.

[Update: the school is now not answering and my dad has had his call returned, I presume he will not hear anything till at least Monday -> my parent-teacher meetings :-) ]

Thanks a million everyone for the support,
We may be getting somewhere, keep it up please,
Cian

by Cian Sun Jan 29, 2006 21:14 ComradeCian at eircom dot net 085-7077919

Hey,

Over the weekend we have discussed between ourselves and with those supporting us. Our plan for Monday is to try to get clarification over whether the detention has been invalidated but also to appeal to the teachers in case it hasn’t and to keep up phone calls, emails, letters etc to make sure the school realise that they have to re-evaluate their decision. Press releases have been issued and it should be in a some papers tomorrow, we may also be on a late night chat show tomorrow and someone may call in the morning chat show on our behalf. We have written a joint letter and will approach the teachers as I said. We will also be providing another letter from my parents about the interpretation of the letter, saying that we are interpreting it as meaning the detentions are cancelled and that if this is not the case please contact us and explain why.

It is vital that pressure is kept up on Monday so if you haven’t called yet then please do, if you haven’t written then likewise please email. The sample letter is comment 31, the contact details of the school are:

Phone: (061) 453828 or 455251

Fax: (061): 325035

Email: [email protected]

Thanks again,
Cian

by Cian - Socialist Youth Thu Feb 02, 2006 16:24 ComradeCian at eircom dot net Limerick 085-7077919

Hey,

Very sorry for the delay in the update. It is a mix between me being very busy still and also things being unclear. As it stands there are 'significant developments'.; the three of us appear to have had our punishments cancelled but we are awaiting written assurance for the the third person. Due to this uncertainty we obviously didn't want to post up tha we had won, while the school may still have backtracked and left us in the awkward position of trying to re-liven a campaign that we had already declared victorious!

Hopefully when it all becomes clearer we will post up here a summary and some of the important points/lessons, and send something similar to others who have supported and helped us.

Thanks again,
Cian

by Cian - Socialist Youth Sat Feb 04, 2006 21:07 ComradeCian at eircom dot net Limerick 085 7077919

Hey,
Today it is official. We have won. The detention we had been threatened with went ahead today without the three of us present or required to be. The school backed down on all 3 cases, even in the case where the parents made it clear they had not given their son 'permission' to go, but that they recognised his right to protest and make his own decisions. This is all a great success and a great example of how students and young people can beat oppressors in school and society - through organisation and struggle.

At first the school said they wouldn't even accept it if parents gave in permission the next day, now they have obviously recognised that the right to protest makes this an exceptional case and have given in. Their ruling, which does deviate from the 'black and white' of the rules obviously shows that when pressurised schools can be forced to recognise that justice is more important that rules and that the right to protest is more important than a black-and-white application of the rules. Now this obviously wasn't any 'realisation' on their part, just like it wasn't last time. This was obviously a reaction to the campaign we mounted.

We managed to quickly get the support of Socialist Youth and Socialist Party, with their public reps calling, writing, and issuing a press release. We also used the Union of Secondary Students as a way to get in contact with the union officials in different Unions. We contacted people in the Limerick Trades Council and got their support. We then brought our campaign to different public reps including Labour party TDs and councillors, who supported us; calling and writing letters and press releases. Later ICTU and ASTI also were contacted and said they would work behind the scenes. Noam Chomsky also gave us his support, which we contacted through a connection from his recent visit. We got support from other groups such as Anarchist Youth, WSM and Labour Youth, on top of the already mentioned Socialist Youth.

We managed to also get media coverage. Indymedia has provided us with a point of contact with many people. The Limerick Leader covered the story, including the front page on the Limerick Chronicle. The Examiner covered it also, and the Independent at least enquired (not sure if it went to print). It was on regional radio and even got a mention on RTE Radio One news at lunchtime, apparently.

The really important point to take from all this is that young people can actually stand up, fight back and win. Too often young people are defeated or pessimistic about the ability to beat schools, especially in my school. What is needed is for young people throughout the country to organise Student Action groups and to begin building a strong, fighting, and democratic students union. We also need to discuss ideas and fight against the government and companies in their attacks on us. As I said already, the lesson to learn is we CAN do all this. What we need is to organise, to discuss with those with experience and to have a fighting attitude and strategy. I would love to talk to and help anyone who wants to set up action groups, fight back against their school or workplace or the government I would urge such people to look into socialist ideas. Struggle is remerging in Ireland now, with huge struggles like Irish Ferries, and this is only going to grow over the next while. What is needed is for this struggle to realise who is really to blame - the bosses who pit worker versus worker to try maximise their profits at our expense. We need to realise that it is the bosses and their system - Capitalism -that is to blame for much of the low pay, economic crises, war, environmental destruction etc. that is in society. Flowing from that our problems can only be dealt with in a truly democratic society where people come before profit and workers' democratically control and co-ordinate the economy and society. That is a socialist society. That is what we need. I would encourage anyone who would be interested in discussing these ideas to also contact me, and to look u www.SocialistYouth.cjb.net and www.SocialistPart.net

Thanks to everyone who has supported my fellow students and I. This is a victory for the student movement and one that should be remembered. And I would like to extend my solidarity to all teachers who have followed this story. What is needed is for unity between teachers and students in the struggle for youth and worker rights and better wages for teachers etc and in the struggle for democratic schools.

Thanks again,
Cian

by ('',) - AY Sat Feb 04, 2006 21:46

Congrats...

by yawn! Sat Feb 04, 2006 22:18

You're such an SP drone. You got let off detention, well done. You have not overthrown the state.

Keep fighting, look to yourself a bit more and "the party" a bit less. You might get somewhere.

by Cian Sun Feb 05, 2006 22:42 ComradeCian at eircom dot net Limerick 085-7077919

“We are very pleased that the school has finally reconsidered and recognised our right to protest. This is a great victory for all young people and shows that when we organise and struggle we can defeat injustice. We took part in the Irish Ferries march to defend our futures and now we have defended our right to protest. I hope people in every city and every school will in future be confident in standing up for their rights, whether it is opposing punishments like this, opposing low pay bosses or opposing the government on things like ASBOs etc. We call on all students to join the struggles to defend their rights and futures, to set up action groups in their schools and to start building a democratic, fighting students’ union. We would be very willing to give support and advice to anyone who wants to join the struggle to defend our rights and futures, please call 085-7077919 or email [email protected].”

That statement has vbeen circulated to diferent media people. There wil also be statements by the USS, Limerick Socialist Youth and Cllr Kieran Walsh of the Labour Party plus anyone else who wants to. We do not want statements to be 'rubbing their noses in it' but to be making the wider points that student can take on education officials etc. and getting the information out there for the future.

Thanks,
Cian

by Limerick Socialist Youth - Socialist Youth & Socialist Party Sun Feb 05, 2006 23:29 info at socialistparty dot net PO Box 3434, Dublin 8 086-3870569

The three students from Ardsoil Ris who were threatened with punishment for attending the mass protest against Irish Ferries slave labour plans and the Race to the Bottom have had that threat withdrawn. The march was the largest Trade Union protest in over 20 years; with 10,000 in Limerick alone and over 100,000 nationally. Ten students from Ardscoil attended the march and three were singled out for punishment. They organised a campaign of phone calls, letters, emails, faxes and media coverage to pressurise the school

Limerick Socialist Youth spokesperson Ashling Golden welcomed the school’s retreat saying “This is a great success for these students and all students in Ireland. It is the right of all students to protest and this shows how attempts to attack youth rights can be opposed – through organisation and struggle!”

Ms. Golden went on to say “Wage competition and the Race to the Bottom is a serious threat to all young people as it is our future wages and conditions that are being attacked in this brutal attempt to increase profits”.

The students concerned got a huge amount of support from the public, trade union activists and officials and public representatives, including Joe Higgins, Socialist Party TD as well as from students, teachers and their unions. (see www.IndyMedia.ie/article/73840 for more details).

Ms. Golden concluded by saying “Young people throughout the country should follow these students’ example and take a stand to defend our rights by opposing punishments like this, opposing scrooge bosses and opposing the government on things like ASBOs and the use of Shannon Airport by US Military! To do this we need to organise and struggle, setting up action groups in schools and building a democratic, fighting students’ union”

For more information or an interview with one of the students call:
Ron on 086-3870569

by Cian - Socialist Youth Wed Feb 15, 2006 14:47 ComradeCian at eircom dot net Limerick 085-7077919

In recent weeks, students from Ardscoil Ris, Limerick have fought for the right to protest and we won. On the day of the protest against Irish Ferries slave labour plans there were 20 to 30 students ready to walkout to defend our futures. Unfortunately the school scared some but ten of us joined the huge protest.

Then a month later, three of us were singled out for punishment, presumably for leading the walkout. We refused to accept the punishment and decided to fight back.

We quickly got support from Socialist Youth, and Socialist Party public representatives wrote and phoned to complain. We used Indymedia and local and national media to get our story out there, we even managed to get on the front page of the regional paper.

We also contacted trade unionists and public representatives and convinced them to help us out. The school was bombarded with phone calls, letters, faxes and emails – so many that they refused to take any more of the calls! With this stream of complaints, media attention, union demands and possibly staff pressure, the principal was left with no option but to give in.

In Ardscoil we have seen this kind of treatment before back in September over the right to leaflet (see October issue of the Socialist online). The reality is schools are scared by the growing anger of some young people and our political ideas. It’s not only in school that we are under attack: companies are driving down our wages and the government are criminalising us with ASBOs. Our victory shows that we can beat attacks on our rights through organisation and struggle.

What we need is to organise throughout the country, spreading the ideas of struggle and socialism but also setting up school student action groups and by getting involved in Socialist Youth.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a copy of an article inthe current edition of the Socialist Party paper