Liam Lawlor dies in moscow taxi crash.

by - Sat Jun 10, 2006 16:29

& jolly good luck to her.

the papers she will sue are :-
Sunday Independent, the Irish Independent, the Sunday Tribune, the Sunday World, the Observer and the Irish Sunday Mirror.
If you want to know why she's suing them - read the whole article & its comments & imagine the edited bits again.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0610/148486....html

by patriot Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:37

Many of you might be wondering what you have to change in your life to get these trappings of success and respect. Some of you though, have no hope of getting the air bag mercedes or the flag draped coffin. You'll have to admit that to yourselves. Of the two, the air bag though is definitely more affordable, only 22$ a hire hour in some countries. Having a coffin draped in a tricolour is not one of the standard funeral parlour options, it is a sign that you were greatly respected during your life by republicans, and most probably did something violent, patriotic, historic or QT.
QT is a very Irish way of saying "hush-hush". You probably did something very "QT hush-hush" if you get the prime minister's aide de camp and a flag. Or else the flag is being devalued by the funeral parlour home people, (who are all FF cumann members)

What was it that Liam Lawlor, known only to us the lumpen poorly transported public as "the man who went to prison three time for not talking to a tribunal on corruption" did - to earn that flag?

Investigate.- Phone your local funeral parlour now and ask them can your grand-da / grand-ma have a tricolour on their big day.

by gutterpress Thu Oct 27, 2005 21:07

was buried today in the presence of former taoiseach Albert dog food Renolds, and the aide de camp of the current one, who was in London amidst generic and anaemic epithets and cliché.

Mercedes, was the former TD's favourite make of car, and many of the anecdotes told of the man focussed more on his love the car, than his acumen at construction business deals.

It was thus fitting that he was buried using a mercedes hearse and not the new fangled type horse drawn hearse such as was used by the only westy dublin criminal indymedia ireland have written about this year.

The airbag first marketted by Mercedes current corporate partnet Chrysler in 1967 was a trapping of luxury for most drivers and front seat passengers in Ireland till compartively recently.

When there is a moderate to severe frontal crash that requires the frontal air bag to deploy, a signal is sent to the inflator unit within the air bag module. An igniter starts a chemical reaction, which produces a gas to fill the air bag, making the air bag deploy through the module cover. Some air bag technologies use nitrogen gas. A pellet of sodium azide (NaN3) is ignited. A rapid reaction occurs, generating nitrogen gas (N2). to fill the air bag. Potassium nitrate, and silicon dioxide are used in secondary and tertiary reactions to deal with the sodium that is liberated; first the potassium nitrate reacts with sodium, yielding sodium and potassium oxides and further gaseous nitrogen, then the oxides react with silicon dioxide, forming more or less inert glass particles. An alternative may use argon gas. Nitrogen and argon are both harmless. However, sodium azide as an aerosol is dangerous.

From the onset of the crash, the entire deployment and inflation process takes only about 1/20th of a second, faster than the blink of an eye. Because a vehicle changes speed so fast in a crash, air bags must inflate rapidly if they are to help reduce the risk of the occupant hitting the vehicle's interior.

Once an air bag deploys, deflation begins immediately as the gas escapes through vents in the fabric. Deployment is frequently accompanied by the release of dust-like particles in the vehicle's interior.

If you are travelling in the back seat, you will still carry this dust as a forensic sample for upto 2 weeks later.

Mr Lawlor was laid to rest in a mercedes equiped with air bag.

by Paddy Thu Oct 27, 2005 17:41

From ireland.com, at the funeral:

His children - Ciara, Niall, Gerald and Shane - all spoke, describing a dedicated family man who "provided well" for them and his wife, Hazel.

He'd be some hoor if he didn't!

by :-) Thu Oct 27, 2005 14:43

cut and paste this term into your search engine
julia Kušnír
it may not appear properly on your screen, because "š" is the czech way of writing "sh". Now as we know, we don't have a czech imc, terrible things happened in Prague, and we're not that popular out there since summer time. But there has only been one report on Ms Kushnir in czech media too date. Confirming that Julie Kushnir had got home, and is still considering the writs. They won't be coming tomorrow, its the national holiday in the Cech republic. Apparantly though she lives in Prague, she does a lot of work triple translating for irish business (according to the irish examiner).

But her cv or work experience isn't online. Is her work "hush-hush"? The czech word for "translations" is "překlady" translator is "překladatel" or "překladatelka" and the group noun is "překladatelé" add them to your search.
Remember to try "yulia" instead of "julia" even "julie". You'll find that there are indeed 2 translators with the surname in all of the Czech republic but neither do ukranian or russian and both are males.

If you get bored of that, remember to read _very carefully_ this link :-
http://www.regrettheerror.com/2005/10/the_liam_lawlor.html

by - Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:20

Wonderful canadian site that compiles such problems :-
http://www.regrettheerror.com/2005/10/the_liam_lawlor.html

Now, The man is in the grave. Move along there nothing to see. We can forget all about it... Or can we? The story was carried in The Guardian's Observer, the Sunday Independent (Ireland), the Sunday Tribune, the Sunday World, the Star on Sunday, the Sunday People, and the News of the World. Thats a total of 7 papers not all of which are published or even owned by Irish commercial media interests. That means at least 7 journalists were involved and it would not be an exaggeration to suggest at least 20 people might get writs.

Q. Why should they expect writs?
A. Becuase the Irish Times said so.

Q. Is it difficult waiting on a writ?
A. Oh yes, being threatened with a writ for in the words of Bertie Ahern on Saturday night "doing your job" is very difficult almost traumatic. A Press council would ensure that members of the public would not be able to threaten or intimidate those who work as "journalistic professionals" into silence.

Q. Has the Moscow inquest results been published?
A. no.

Q. Have the Moscow papers / reuters office been scolded for starting the whole thing?
A. no.

Q. She's very slow for a polyglot lawyer this Ms Kushnir isn't she?
A. that's called "suspense".

Q. Do you think the Irish Times lied?
A. well whereas 7 papers "made the mistake" only one thought to intimidate an estimated 20 journalists and all of them working with business rivals.....

by RobbieS Thu Oct 27, 2005 07:52

Apart from anything else, it's hard to see the relevance of Lawlor's travelling companion in the crash. It's a distraction from whatever significance his departure has.

Here's what might have happened if there was accountability in this country.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1845137,00.html

by iosaf Wed Oct 26, 2005 21:28

Its after office closing time on the continent of Europe, and though three hours after late delivery in Ireland, the 7 news-titles publicised by the Irish Times have people gainfully employed all hours to accept the "legal letters".

by R. Isible Wed Oct 26, 2005 19:47

Have they expressed publically at any stage their disgust and concern at his refusal to co-operate with the Flood Tribunal? Have they made an effort to make sure that they are not the recipients of money that was obtained by perverting the planning process? If not then I'm not wasting any sympathy on them. And, for the record, I don't believe that the dead are sacred and immune from criticism.

by - Wed Oct 26, 2005 15:03

All those who would like to pay their last respects are invited to attend.

"The removal will take place tomorrow morning to St Patrick’s Church, Esker, near Lucan in County Dublin, for midday mass.

The funeral of Mr Lawlor will take place immediately afterwards at Esker Cemetery".

by Nadia - relation of the deceased Wed Oct 26, 2005 14:55 nastynad10 at eircom dot net

At the end of the day a man has died, my uncle was tragically killed so please try to show some compassion for his family who are devastated.

by Joe Wed Oct 26, 2005 13:58

How else am I to test your claim that they are "more usually described as brutal tyrannical despots with the blood of millions on their hands"?

Google claims to index billions of pages - it this was the 'more usual' description I'd presume it would come up at least once in a search for that phrase.

If you have another suggestion for how to judge your claim (other than 'it must be true cause I said so') then feel free to suggest it.

by rob Wed Oct 26, 2005 13:47

So you are basing your world view on google ratings?

by Joe Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:05

But when i google "brutal tyrannical despots with the blood of millions on their hands" I get
"Your search - "brutal tyrannical despots with the blood of millions on their hands" - did not match any documents." so I don't think your right there.

Interestingly if I google for images under 'criminal' I get Henry Kissenger, George Bush and a picture of the Nuermburg trials of the Nazi leaders (as well as others I don't recognise).

by rob Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:35

they are more usually described as brutal tyrannical despots with the blood of millions on their hands. My point (if your interested) is that to place Laim Lawlor in their comapny to make a vague point is absurd.

by Joe Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:05

I suspect his point is that of "Saddam, Pol Pot, Stalin....Bertie, Liam" none have so far been convicted in any court however people refer to some or all of them as criminals.

by rob Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:16

Saddam, Pol Pot, Stalin....Bertie, Liam

Dont you think you are being a tad hysterical?

by Badman Tue Oct 25, 2005 17:50

"Specific allegations were made - you called him a criminal (which he was not)... and, if you had a clue about publishing, would know that innuendo is sufficient to defame someone. Luckily for you, LL can't sue for defamation."

Liam Lawlor was a criminal. So is bertie, bush and blair. Saddam is a criminal, so was Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. The criminals who control states are hardly going to be be convicted by their own courts, so that is not a good measure of their criminality.

by Ben Tue Oct 25, 2005 17:16

You have to look at the facts. Remember, it is nearly always the first story that emerges that is the most accurate. It is always afterwards that we see the cover up.
When the Russian police arrived on the scene, they obviously took Ms. "Julia Kushnir" away for questioning, most probably in the hospital. She would have easily been fit for questioning as she received only minor injuries. This is what the police said in relation to Mr. Lawlor and Ms "Kushnir" after the preliminary questioning, "They were not close friends, she does not have a passport and appears to be Ukrainian. I can only assume that they met in the street." We were also told on Sunday Morning that she was very young, a teenager in fact.
24 hours later it emerges that Ms. Kushnir was in “fact” a 32 year old legal secretary mother of two who was a Russian translator. She had worked with Mr. Lawlor before and was traveling with him from Prague to Moscow. Amazing. Here is where the holes appear.
Firstly, were the Russian police all drunk when they first questioned her, as only 24 hours later it turned out that she was 32 and not a teenager? Could they have made such a mistake? Not likely.
Secondly, it is now understood that she flew with Mr. Lawlor to Moscow from Prague. This is indeed most interesting, as according to Russian police, she had no passport! Pretty strange don't you think for somebody according to the more "accurate" Irish media reports that emerged a day later, was in transit from the airport when the accident happened. Now I’m no expert, but isn't it a pre-requisite to have your Passport with you when flying from place to place?!
Furthermore, it has emerged that Ms. "Kushnir" has subsequently, we are reliably informed, disappeared of the face of the planet! Surprise Surprise. If you were not a prostitute, would you not stick around to prove to everybody that you are in fact the legal secretary that you claim to be. I know I would.

Finally, as the Observer said on the matter "It is known that, while on regular trips to Prague, Lawlor, the first Irish politician to be jailed for corruption, visited brothels and sex clubs in the Czech capital". Indeed I wonder are they, like the Irish media, are being made apologize for stating that. I would extremely doubt it, as I’m sure they could probably prove it.
So the question is why the cover up and by whom? This is anybody’s guess. There is a myriad of people and reasons why as Lawlor had both friends and enemies in high and low places, however, in a city where money talks and bullshit walks more than any other city in the world, it is not inconceivable that a donation was made to Moscow police for a spot of back tracking!

by Joe Tue Oct 25, 2005 16:58

Lawlor was an unconvicted crook who made huge amounts of money out of land corruption - this was not a victimless crime it had the effect of pushing up housing prices (and by extension rents) for ordinary Dubliners.

What has already emerged in the tribunals has made that clear. Of course because the nature of capitalism is 'corruption' Lawlor was never convicted or indeed even charged with any of this. After all if what he did was a 'crime' under Irish law than every Irish capitalist is a criminal. The courts are only for the dumb petty capitalists who rob bikes and handbags - the smarter ones put on the suit and tie and went into politics years back.

by bollocks! Tue Oct 25, 2005 15:39

The "source" for the story was NOT the russian media. The source for the stories in the Irish press was a british freelance journalist in Moscow who writes for the Observer (his source was an unnamed russian cop)- which the Sindo was tipped off by, then the Trib, then Star on Sunday, then Sunday World etc etc etc. All INM titles.

"The Irish newspapers received the information through AP and Reuters in the afternoon of Saturday. They took the information as given to them at the point as true."

It did NOT come in on agencies, other papers became aware when they spotted Sindo's early edition.

"in its correction took information provided by an associate of the Lawlor family as truth"

Bollocks again - it took info provided to it by the Dept of Foreign Affairs.....


"Now we in indymedia are not bound by the same laws ..... as the commercial or state media in ireland"

Yes you are.

"But beyond innuendo, no specific allegations were made"

Specific allegations were made - you called him a criminal (which he was not)... and, if you had a clue about publishing, would know that innuendo is sufficient to defame someone. Luckily for you, LL can't sue for defamation.

"Information which had been reported in another state was relayed to the readers in Ireland"

Repeating a defamation makes you just as culpabale, legally, as the originator...

Go and study libel law before you, yawn, lecture the rest of us...

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group Tue Oct 25, 2005 15:32

The original title of this article referred to Mr. Lawlor as a "convicted criminal". Other commentators made the reference until one commentator pointed out and demonstrated that Liam Lawlor was not a convicted criminal:

"You are perfectly correct, he was jailed for obstructing the work of the tribunal.
However, that is neither a criminal nor a civil offence. For someone to be accurately decribed as a criminal, he/she needs to have faced trial and be convicted.
Contempt of proceedings is not put on a criminal record - because it is not a crime as such, and doesn't require a trial, and a defence is not possible. It is merely the unilateral direction of a judge.
In much the same way as the Rossport 5 have no criminal record, nor does Joe Higgins for his bin tax caper. They too cannot be decribed as criminals."

by yawn the author of the contentious piece. Tue Oct 25, 2005 15:22

No incorrect reporting occured. There was an insult, which was not meant, the original post which read "FF convicted criminal" ought have read "FF politican with convictions".
The report was based on russian news services which reported the death in a hired car of an Irish national in the company of a un-known (she didn't identify herself) ukranian woman, who was described as "young" in the main red light area of Moscow far off the main road to the airport.

In the hours which followed, the Moscow police confirmed to the moscow reuters office that the dead Irish man was Liam lawlor. But still didn't clarify who the young woman was beyond her nationality.

The Moscow press published the story as the death of an irish law maker in the company of a prostitute. The Irish government were at that time informed and their embassy staff toured the scene, the dept. of foreign affairs and the taoiseach were informed. The Taoiseach went ahead with his Ard Fheis speech. No announcement was made that a former prominent member of the party had died in a road accident.

The Irish newspapers received the information through AP and Reuters in the afternoon of Saturday. They took the information as given to them at the point as true. Shortly after 6pm RTE reported the death, and the facts.

The following morning the sunday independent said that ukranian woman was a prostitute.

Mary harney accused of them insensitivity to the Lawlor family bordering on libel.

The Sunday independent withdrew the story and in its correction took information provided by an associate of the Lawlor family as truth, the woman 's name was julia, she was 28 years of age.

RTE re-issued the apology telling the Irish public that a complete and unreserved apology had been made and that the woman was 32 years of age.

The moscow press dropped the story.

Now we in indymedia are not bound by the same laws or same commercial considerations or even the same political leverage as the commercial or state media in ireland. A regular contributor who has been a trusted source of additional and background information on political affairs in the east of Europe and former Soviet union wrote an article which preluded the furore. But beyond innuendo, no specific allegations were made. Information which had been reported in another state was relayed to the readers in Ireland.

In addition the link to the wikipedia article on Lawlor and the Flood tribunal on corruption was given, so that contributors to this site could assist the wikpedia foundation and get the record right elsewhere.

Is there going to be a libel case?
Will Julia issue writs?
Do the Lawlor family want to go through it all?
Probably not, but we must remember that this man was worthy of public attention, because he refused three times to co-operate with a national inquiry on corruption, he represented a constituency which plays a key role in other current extra-state investigations, and he was accused of hiding ill gotten money in his son's accounts. Perhaps if Mr Lawlor had been less a character and rogue, and more fashionable, rigorously assidious to detail and his public oaths we wouldn't have read any article at all. But if we represent any interest it is that of those who do not look lightly on corruption either here in ireland or in Irish business dealings in other countries such as Russia or the ukraine,

Which is why I believe in the morning of Saturday whilst so many people knew something but still said nothing, I left a comment on the ease of investing in the ukraine elsewhere on the newswire. Thus my "subtitle" :- "maybe he was investigating ukranian real estate".

If I have caused hurt to the Lawlor family by anything i have written in the past 72 hours I apologise, but I will not retract information which was in the public domain which has not been denied at its russian source or even seen any legal notice served.
And this raises the question now, can I trust russian media to report facts properly? This is important as next year is G8 Moscow. Am I to stop believeing my contacts in russian reuters? OR everytime a foreign national (with colourful past) dies in an expensive hire car driving at undue speed in a redlight area of moscow, are we to stop and think:-

Ah! remember former Deputy Lawlor. we must be jumping to conclusions. she was a translator aged 28 and 32.

by RJS Tue Oct 25, 2005 00:39

No surprise about the Independent group reporting unsubstantiated fantasy. They're not the only ones who engage in this on a regular basis. I mean, a political culture of spreading dirt through the media, which they lap up.
Also, the uncritical reporting of Garda statements/leaks verbatum every day in the electronic and print mass media.

I wonder what LL was up to in Moscow. Legality is an emorphous concept in Russia, so planning laws are like Ireland's. We've no reason to believe that the money he was to use in enterprise was legitemately earned (not that anyone can actually EARN the money to usurp others' property).

D'oul segosha had a nexk like a jockey's bollocks, and his death means one less property/planning shark.

Will LL's family recipricate public respect by turning over all his books to the Mahon tribunal, and returning ill-gotten gains from his estate?

by y-u-l-i-a not j-u-l-i-a Mon Oct 24, 2005 21:02

We are still awaiting the confirmation that this was just an accident and the transfer of the remains of a known player in the corruption scandals that rocked our state and a plaintiff in more than one libel case (which i believe he lost).

But one of the key witnesses is not available for comment, and since I (as "hmmm") suggested Julia at 6.53pm saturday (your time) in the comments above no-one has thought to clarify that the young ukranian woman, mis-spelt her name.
Its Yulia in ukranian & while i'm at it, its Yulia in russian. Interpreters are a small circle. We're often quite political, look through your archives and you will find that we all know about the orange revolution because a deaf interpreter in the Ukraine broke her code of conduct and i (and others) told you all through our open news network.
Yes, we stick together. & very rarely afford expensive hotels such as the one the Lawlor family claim their ukranian julia went to after being discharged from hospital. Its like this, Moscow is not Timbuctu. Its just down the road, the phones work, its got an indymedia, and this story has not ended yet.

The Lawlor dossier, will someday be read from sordid beginning to sordid end. From F to F.
meanwhile, you are all invited naturally to contribute to both the Flood tribunal wikipedia entry and the Lawlor entry.

Let me put it this way, the very least "Miss julia mother one of one, interpreter resident in prague" can do, is attend the forthcoming funeral of her previous employer and offer her condolences to the Lawlor family.

don't you agree?

by Anti-Sindo Action Mon Oct 24, 2005 16:15

The Sindo, a dirty flithy rag by its own admission today, has pulled the original frontpage article from the internet edition of the paper.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/index.php3?issue_id=13173

Amazingly, they've even deleted the article from the *.pdf vesion

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/frontpagepdfs/2005/13173.pdf

This is great - the Sindo confirming that you just cannot believe anything written in it!

While I despise everything Liam Lawlor did and represented during his life, what the Sindo did yesterday was wrong. A fitting way for them to make up for this disgusting piece of trashy tabloidism would to donate the profits they made from yesterday's issue to charity.

This will definately lead to the establishment of a press council.

by moscow times Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:48

The link will become archive only soon so here is the C&P

["Former Irish Lawmaker Dies in Crash
The Moscow Times

Former Irish politician Liam Lawlor was killed in a car crash on the outskirts of Moscow early Saturday morning.

Lawlor, 60, a one-time lawmaker whose career ended in disgrace, died when his car crashed into a concrete post on Leningradksoye Shosse near Khimki, a Khimki police spokesman said Sunday.

He said Lawlor's driver was also killed and that a young woman was injured. He said the woman remained hospitalized Sunday, but refused to provide further details about her.

Irish and British newspapers, citing unidentified police officials, reported that the woman was probably a call girl.

"The woman had no passport and said she was not a close friend of the Irishman," Ireland's Sunday Independent quoted a police spokesman as saying. "She is a girl, and it seems they met on the street, and it is therefore likely she was a prostitute."

Britain's The Guardian identified the woman as a Ukrainian.

Lawlor's family, however, lashed out at media speculation about the woman, calling it inaccurate, "vindictive" and "reckless" in a statement Sunday.

The Khimki spokesman said police showed Irish Ambassador Justin Harman around the crash site. The Irish Embassy on Sunday referred questions to the Irish Foreign Ministry, and a ministry spokesman declined comment.

Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern paid tribute to Lawlor as "an engaging, witty and larger-than-life character."

Lawlor, who represented suburban west Dublin in Ireland's parliament, the Dail, until 2002, had served three short prison terms for failing to cooperate with a fact-finding tribunal into bribery and corruption allegations. The tribunal gathered evidence linking Lawlor to blackmail, bribe taking, money laundering and tax evasion."]

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2005/10/24/013.html

by iosaf Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:49

We hope don't we all, that the shame brought to her by those who thought she was a prostitute for sharing a taxi with a FF "rogue" will not lead to lawsuits.
& naturally that the taxi driver's family are well funded. julia checked into a 5star hotel according to the indo, and has since disappeared. Interpreters are like that though. They often blend into the background, its part of their valued training process. Julia is a mother of one. She worked with Lawlor before. I believe I mentioned her in a previous comment as being a very pretty but dangerous woman (this is due to her interest in self defence) [Julia got her black belt four years ago and teaches autodefence to youngsters in her holiday home of Prague when she gets the chance...,]

I would also like to point out to readers, that I and john mcdermott are not the same person. & I find it vaguely irritating that he/she always puts their address as Spain, as i live there, and it almost pushes the impersonation guideline. Thatmuch said, i do like the "remove FF" website. I agree with that. ;-)

http://unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1493017&issue_id=13174

by John McDermott - removefiannafail Mon Oct 24, 2005 06:38 Spain

The Indo has a good obituary on Liam,
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1493018&issue_id=13174
While,According to "The Examiner",
"The family of Liam Lawlor yesterday hit out at media coverage of the former politician’s death, saying they were saddened by unsubstantiated claims he had picked up a prostitute before his fatal car crash."
It,s a pity ,if the prostitute story is not true because it added a touch of colour to the passing of what was probably, Ireland,s greatest political gangster figure. (if we exclude C.J.H)
Funny thing is, the family( and Holy Ireland) are more horrified by the possibility that he had left this life in the midst of a sex romp,rather than wheeling and dealing with the Russian Mafia.He was undoubtedly the "King of Corrupt Land Deals" and section 4 rezoning; the respectable form of criminality in our society,to this day,and the source of many a Fianna Fail supporters wealth.
http://www.planformeath.com/News/?n=4

by Badman Mon Oct 24, 2005 01:49

According to today's observer, Lawlor was so reluctant to testify to the Mahon tribunal because of his fear of retribution from 'well known Dublin criminals'. Apparently he was laundering their drug money through his ex soviet bloc investments.

So, as well as being single handedly responsible for destroying west dublin through ignoring all planning principles for his own enrichment, it seems that he was aiding and abbetting the criminal vermin that have destroyed much of Dublin with heroin. Maybe it's not so surprising that the criminal gangs in west dublin have managed to enrich themselves with such impunity in the last decade.

Rot in hell Liam. It is rare that a bigger scumbag, gangster, dirtbird appears on the planet. We all walk lighter today.

by John McDermott - removefiannafail Sun Oct 23, 2005 21:39 Spain

"As a man lives ,so shall he die."
.There is of course a danger that the Russian Mafia who would have been deep into Lawlor,s doings; may get to the Moscow police,to "amend" their story if it brings too much heat on his murky dealings there.
Bertie has already spoken his obituary.It,s a little like Ray Burke,.I have both on my site;

by FF voter Sun Oct 23, 2005 15:55

he wasn't convicted of any crime. He wasn't a criminal, he served his constituents offering them an option to the communists of Tomas mc Giolla the sticky SFWP/ WP.
he was unfairly made a whipping boy after dirt was dragged up, and went to prison 3 times for his "convictions" his sincerity.
He would have loved to been at the Ard Fheis most probably but in the last months with his house and assets about to be seized he probably felt insecure and a bit rejected.

Because he was one of them. If he wasn't one of them, they'd show it. They'd say so. They'd show it in some way. They would have asked him to leave the party. They would have sent him out to the cold. They would have wanted everyone to forget him. They wouldn't have wanted him to die like that, then, there, - would they?

by a very regular contributor to online news and sort of expert - in overseas affairs. Sun Oct 23, 2005 15:47

I knew. Before you. Let's refine that.
I knew before the Sunday Independent & RTE.
I'll go one better. I knew before the FF ard fheis.
& I said horrible and hurtful things when yesterday after the story broke, people thought "but how could you write with such an attitude?". But earlier I had made "snide" references to the Ukraine and I other jokey stuff now edited about the "boil alert" in Moscow and the problem with verrucahs and the wonderful well established "ex-pat" community there.

Did I choose to write what the Sunday Independent published this morning?

Did I at any time in the last 36 hours use the "P" word? or the "under-A" word?

No. I could have "revealed" much much more.
I could have shown you maps, photos, spoken to you about so much. But I just told you the price of the taxi fare. And I asked after much thought "where was Lawlor at the FF Ard Fheis?".

Now If there is anyone in the great room of Irish politics (where Lawlor now might get a wikipedia entry written so quickly just like Garland got his in the last week) who knew "all the facts" before me -

It means - "they were on the phone to Moscow".
Their info was so real time, you'd almost expect them to have a motive in this untimely death.
In fact, it means they're a player.

"CAN" the good journalists of Ireland reveal anymore? Or is this terrible Ard Fheis example of what happens to the corrupt amongst us to be quitely forgotten? In short, its like this, Bertie! Willie! and even you Mickey Mc Dowell!
"yerman in cyber space has a dossier on these Moscow links".
HE must have a chip on his shoulder. But they don't speak pirate, so I won't profit.

by polyglot Sun Oct 23, 2005 15:24

and consideration of any evidence which might lead to a criminal investigation, the body will come back to Ireland. By which time the gossip in far off russia will have died down and only the embarrased silences of Gleneagles will last.
: "Hello Willie!"
: "Hello Mickey! funny we were just talking about you."
: "Who's in charge of the service now?"

by the fog Sun Oct 23, 2005 13:22

never speak ill of the dead but there is nothing good to say about this man. he was set to gain 2 million euros from the adamstown development even after all the prison sentences. rest in peace and may no one like you ever go into politics again.

by The squire Sun Oct 23, 2005 05:23

Alot of big property developers will sleep easier that Lawlor has passed on with his secrets. This was no accident it looks very much like a hit. Very similar to Princes Dianas car crash. The tribunal in planning corruption is now finished.

by observer2 Sun Oct 23, 2005 05:16

Is it truth or vengence you are looking for?

Even the most hideous fiends have mothers and partners and children, should those who are innocently connected to this man be subjected to an onslaught as they try to grieve?

I, for one, do not believe there is any political, moral or legal justification for that.

Indecent haste, know what I mean?

by Inquisitive, no schadenfreude here - defrauded citizens of Ireland Sun Oct 23, 2005 05:02

So, our criticisms of the corrupt living are circumscribed because of libel laws; and the powerful get interminable tribunals instead of court and jail like the common people.

Then when such laws no longer apply, we're told it's unkind to speak ill of the dead (Stalin, Mao and Kissinger too I suppose) - well not yet on the last one worse luck.

We can expect nothing but plattitudes from FF and the mass media for the next few days for reasons indicated by R.isible. He exemplified FF morality, and they don't want any new information coming out. Mealy-mouthed to the last, they will utter words like 'colourful character' and hope that it'll all blow over. If ever there was a case for a moritorium, this isn't it.

I can often understand contempt for the law, but when it comes from those who profess to embody the system, synicism knows no bounds.

What really were his links with National Toll Roads, and how much would he have got from us to buy back the contract. Which social wastelands in West Dublin should be mournful for his passing.

Other very newsworthy items pertaining to Dublin but I can't remember rightly which ones. He had his finger in so many pies.

A slíbhín of the highest order was Mr. Lawless - not personally speaking since I didn't know him, but public wrongs belong in the public domain.
Retrospective fawning, arguably, doesn't.

Lets use this new freedom to get at the facts.

by observer2 Sun Oct 23, 2005 03:07

May he rest in peace.

The dead are not immune from criticsm, but surely it is respectful to his family(who have committed no crime) to allow a reasonable period to mourn his passing. We should remember him a month from now, as he was!

by R. Isible Sun Oct 23, 2005 02:32

What on earth are you talking about "Mary"? Nowhere in the above comments has there been a suggestion that Lawlor's funeral will be disrupted. What has been suggested is that he should be immune from criticism just because he's dead. That strikes me as a completely wrong idea, especially as it's possible that now that he's dead some other evidence about FF corruption will come out from those that kept silent while he was alive.

by boo! Sun Oct 23, 2005 01:09

There will naturally be an inquest in Russia, as the death of a foreigner involves procedure.

& there will have been and will continue tomorrow a ripple amongst those rank and hopeful at the ard fheis of Fianna Fail in Kerry. Their former TD for Dublin West was not with them this weekend. Was this an unforeseen clash of engagements? Morbid puzzling will help us not, on the sidelines, hurling in the ditches. But Gleneagles, has been brought down to earth not by bird flu, but by death's apparant indifference to conversation. Speeches written with fine detail to the zeitgeist have yet again missed the proof of time. When Ahern addressed his party and told them they were FF and that is why they were there -
where was Lawlor?

by Mary O'Hara Sun Oct 23, 2005 01:08

Nobody can produce ultra-left wing views when someone dies. I am also neutral here but a person deserves to have a peaceful funeral without any criticism because imagine if you were to die, would you like people chanting insults at your funeral? Or would you like a peaceful funeral? Ok, Liam did was involved in such scandals but above all the days, his funeral deserves at the least to be peaceful.

by R. Isible Sat Oct 22, 2005 20:33

The dead should not be immune from criticism, especially when their crimes affect the living. Lawlors alleged crimes are worth detailing as we can be reasonably certain that he's not unusual in Fianna Fail. It's good to remind the public what the democratically elected scum get up to in and out of office.

by shocked Sat Oct 22, 2005 20:02

the poor man was a victim of circumstances. If the ambulance had come earlier, if the hospital had been better equiped, if the nurse had been better paid, if the doctor hadn't been on drugs, if the food he could have afforded to eat had been different
It wouldn't be this way!

But its different, he was a former member of the FF government travelling in a mercedes at the cost of 22$ an hour from Moscow Airport. He wasn't even on the metro he might be alive he had just gone to Kievskaja station and neglected the merc and the ukranian fellow passenger, or in a normal taxi. He was special. He might be warmly remembered if he had told the truth. But he didn't. He was special. He might have chosen to be honest and not take the money. But He didn't. He was special.

Well I'm not special. I'm horribly bitter with a chip on my shoulder. pretty typical. I doubt you're special either. Now lets talk about scandal, Flood tribunal and why we don't think a few extra wives on the FF list will win any sympathy from the voters.

by Martin Hynes Sat Oct 22, 2005 19:57

Hey, hey. Come on....
I'm not a Fianna Fail supporter myself but nobody deserves to be demonised when they die like this. Ok, so he did do some bad things in his lifetime but surely he doesn't deserve to be criticised when he dies. God bless him and may he have a peaceful funeral.

by hmmm Sat Oct 22, 2005 19:53

the rather effette political discussion site politics.ie is finding it hard to _react properly_ to the news that Liam Lawlor has died in Moscow.

Certainly we are all against accidental death in teh civilised world, that's why we have proper laws, seat belts, drivers insurance and pay youngsters like Al to check tax discs and tyre pressures.

But, one wonders will the politics.ie people now add Mr Lawlor to the little "wiki" guide to Irish politicians?

Or will he be neglected as a tad sticky. They're very selective over there.

I for one, just can't resist the sort of insensitive joke that those on the right might make about an elder member of the political community, fond of Moscow have made. - I wonder did the other passenger look like Julia? Very pretty if so. But very dangerous.

By the time you knew how dangerous, it would be too late. Anyway. we aren't stooping to that level over here. A decent obituary, floral wreath, and a thumbnail picture. Its all about time. You never know the moment or the way.

by hearses and pens Sat Oct 22, 2005 19:34

is the second high profile death related to the Flood Tribunal, we can't forget the death on September 15th 2005 of James Gogarty the original whistle blower.

The Flood tribunal was set up after Ray Burke a FF minister appointed by Bertie Ahern in 1997 was the point of serious allegations that he had received £80,000 from a property developer regarding the former Dublin County Council.
This was not the first time such allegations had been made against Burke or many other high ranking members of the FF party machine.

Burke denied the allegations but resigned from the Cabinet and from the Dáil after just four months in office. This allegation lead to the setting up of the Planning Tribunal chaired by Mr Justice Feargus Flood. In an interim report of the subsequent Flood Tribunal he was unambiguously judged by Flood to be "corrupt". In addition there also allegations that Ray Burke was made payments by a company called "Rennicks Ltd" which the details of which were published in the Irish Times in June 1997 immediately after the General Election If the article written by Geraldine Kennedy was published before the election, it is doubtful if the FF-PD coalition would have gained power Rennicks is a company associated with Tony O'Reilly, the day prior to the General Election O'Reilly's Irish Independent ran a front page editorial against the Fine Gael - Labour Coalition Government entitled "Pay Back Time" in order to influence the electorate. The publishing of the Editorial broke a long standing moratorium that all coverage of the election ceases a day ahead of the poll. The Flood and subsequent Mahon Tribunal have yet to deal with "Rennicks Payment" issue The issue on whether the Mahon Tribunal can now investigate the "Rennicks Payment" has now come before the Irish Court (Sept 2005) by way of an application for a full hearing into whether the Mahon Tribunal can investigate the alleged Fitzwilton-Rennicks payment to Ray Burke, the High Court decided that a full hearing will take place. A date has yet to be set for the full hearing by the High Court

In July 2004, he pleaded guilty to making false tax returns. After a period on bail, on January 24, 2005 he was sentenced to 6 months in jail for these offences, making him one of the most senior politicians in the history of Ireland to serve time in jail. He was released in June 2005 after four and a half months, earning a 25% remission of sentence because of good behaviour. He was prisoner number 33791 and served his time in Arbour Hill Prison in Dublin.

***************************************

Lawlor likewise was found to have done lots of naughty things with a few pittance here and there.
And by 2004 was facing seizure of his house valued at between 2 and 3 million euros in a constituency where dingbats only dream of going to Moscow and generally vote Trot and carry their own rubbish bags to the bin instead of keeping them in their son's locker stuffed with cash.

It was great stuff.
They found prosperity you see.
& they needed to share it with their mates.
Thats coz they're passionate about money.
& they love to keep it in their community.
But they do have bad luck.