Politics of Noam Chomsky

by ? Sat Oct 22, 2005 16:09

Who is organising this?

by Chekov Sun Oct 23, 2005 21:45

And it's organised by the SWP.

I wonder why they forgot to mention this?

Could it be because Chomsky thinks that they, and leninists in general, are 'enemies of socialism?' I'm sure that they'll mention this as their reputation for honesty is so untarnished.

by Mark C - Teacher Mon Oct 24, 2005 09:50

If you'd really like to understand the politics of Noam Chomsky and don't want to go to a SWP gig, try getting tickets for his lecture in Trinity on January 18th, free in.

by MV Mon Oct 24, 2005 13:15

Or better still go to either the Ploughshare or rossport meetings
real politics is an alien concept to the arswippys
with wespect
Masters Voice

by Mark C - Teacher Mon Oct 24, 2005 13:20

I don't see how either of those events will encourage a discussion of "The Politics of Noam Chomsky", interesting and all as they would be. I fear that those events might have more pressing issues to attend to.

by Paul Baynes Mon Oct 24, 2005 14:38

That Chomsky lecture on January 18th is the Annual Amnesty Lecture. Olivia O'Leary will chair the discussion. Tickets are available by calling the Amnesty Ireland Irish Section office on 01 6776361 or by emailing [email protected]

Priority will go to members of Amnesty International.

by Buck Tue Oct 25, 2005 02:26

"Could it be because Chomsky thinks that they, and leninists in general, are 'enemies of socialism?' I'm sure that they'll mention this as their reputation for honesty is so untarnished."

What about Trotskyties?

by Joe Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:11

The Chomsky quote referred to is actually from an Irish publication - Red and Black Revolution.

RBR: The importance of grassroots democracy to any meaningful change in society would seem to be self evident. Yet the left has been ambiguous about this in the past. I'm speaking generally, of social democracy, but also of Bolshevism - traditions on the left that would seem to have more in common with elitist thinking than with strict democratic practice. Lenin, to use a well-known example, was sceptical that workers could develop anything more than trade union consciousness- by which, I assume, he meant that workers could not see far beyond their immediate predicament. Similarly, the Fabian socialist, Beatrice Webb, who was very influential in the Labour Party in England, had the view that workers were only interested in horse racing odds! Where does this elitism originate and what is it doing on the left?

CHOMSKY: I'm afraid it's hard for me to answer this. If the left is understood to include 'Bolshevism,' then I would flatly dissociate myself from the left. Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism, in my opinion, for reasons I've discussed. The idea that workers are only interested in horse-racing is an absurdity that cannot withstand even a superficial look at labour history or the lively and independent working class press that flourished in many places, including the manufacturing towns of New England not many miles from where I'm writing - not to speak of the inspiring record of the courageous struggles of persecuted and oppressed people throughout history, until this very moment. Take the most miserable corner of this hemisphere, Haiti, regarded by the European conquerors as a paradise and the source of no small part of Europe's wealth, now devastated, perhaps beyond recovery. In the past few years, under conditions so miserable that few people in the rich countries can imagine them, peasants and slum-dwellers constructed a popular democratic movement based on grassroots organisations that surpasses just about anything I know of elsewhere; only deeply committed commissars could fail to collapse with ridicule when they hear the solemn pronouncements of American intellectuals and political leaders about how the US has to teach Haitians the lessons of democracy. Their achievements were so substantial and frightening to the powerful that they had to be subjected to yet another dose of vicious terror, with considerably more US support than is publicly acknowledged, and they still have not surrendered. Are they interested only in horse-racing?

I'd suggest some lines I've occasionally quoted from Rousseau: when I see multitudes of entirely naked savages scorn European voluptuousness and endure hunger, fire, the sword, and death to preserve only their independence, I feel that it does not behoove slaves to reason about freedom.

Rest of the interview at

by Aristide Tue Oct 25, 2005 16:46

Whatever you may say about Lenin, he didn't come out with that "horse-racing" quote, it was Webb, who was one of the great shitehawks of twentieth-century Britain, and a Stalin-lover too. I'd imagine Lenin would have been on the side of the Haitians.

by Joe Tue Oct 25, 2005 16:50

Read the original more carefully and you'll actually see the quote was correctly attributed

"Similarly, the Fabian socialist, Beatrice Webb, who was very influential in the Labour Party in England, had the view that workers were only interested in horse racing odds!"