Benefit for jailed anti-fascists

by BlackPope Wed Jun 26, 2002 17:08

So this is what 'anti-fascists' get up to in their spare time - attacking people selling their paper on the streets.

Yes, that sure sounds like a democratic approach to rational political debate, and not in the least bit fascistic.

But these heroic Lads were willing to sacrifice all to save us from the 'Real Fascists'(TM), not just because they themselves enjoy hooliganism and the infliction of GBH on the streets.

I do not know these 'Lads' personally nor any particulars of their case - but if they are in any way related to the violent 'anti-fascist' elements it has been my displeasure to meet on other streets, then I can only estimate that the public interest is better served by having them inside rather than out.

Unfortunately, the chances of them learning the error of their ways appear to be slim to negligible - but please do pass my sentiments along and let them know that I wish them a speedy recovery in any case.

Schalom, BlackPope

by Brian Cahill Wed Jun 26, 2002 18:19

Two of the jailed anti-fascists above are members of the Socialist Party.

It is good to see a benefit being organised.

On the wider issues:

1) It was acknowledged by the Crown Prosecution Service that one of the Nazis present at the incident which led to the anti-fascists being jailed, had swung the first blow and shouted "Do you want some nigger lover?". Of course no members of the National Front were charged.

2) The sentences handed out appear to be a deliberate attempt to make an example of anti-fascist protesters. Jonathon Woodgate, the Leeds footballer, recieved a community service order when found guilty of the same offense, Affray, for his part in an assault on an asian student.

3) The National Front, the BNP and other fascists have to be opposed anywhere and everywhere they try to organise. Allowing them to carry out street activities means allowing them to intimidate ethnic minorities, trade unionists and the other victims of their hate.

by blackpope you pillock Wed Jun 26, 2002 18:26

There always has to be one idiot who starts off "I do not know the particulars of the case but" and then goes on to denounce people who are prepared to oppose hate groups as fascists themselves. If you are really insistent on equating fascism with anti-fascism then go back to reading the Irish Independent.

by BlackPope Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:52

Dear Outraged Whoever,

I can see you are a little stung by my not-100%-supportive thoughts, however, you are overreacting if you inflate this to a denunciation.

All I am questioning are the 'Lads' methods of opposition, and also maybe their integrity as political thinkers.

Attacking in packs people distributing papers on the streets is a fascistic behaviour not normally observed in healthy democratic societies. Hitler's Brownshirts (SA) were pioneers of this policy. Do you really want such figures as role models?

This is *not* an equation of 'fascism' with 'anti-fascism' (whatever those terms may mean to you!) but merely calling to your attention something that would be patently obvious to most people. There is no need to feel insulted just because not everyone agrees with your position.

And I genuinely do wish the 'Lads' all the best, I would just discourage them from such stupid and contra-productive actions in the future - a strategy not involving getting half-cut and then racing out of the pub to 'get Nazis' might bring more positive results.

By the way, I never did read the 'Irish Independant', but will now, on the power of your recommendation, begin subscription.

Yours etc. BP

by blisset Thu Jun 27, 2002 13:17

black pope u are a cccrrriiiittttiiiicccccc as beckett would say

by Paul Thu Jun 27, 2002 14:05 Meath

The authors of the following two quotes would be better advised to READ clearly the piece they proport to be criticising(in this case - blackpope's piece), before firing off Murdochesque style comments, which clearly show a lack of understanding of basic English. As I'm sure the authors in question do have a good grasp of the English language, I can only assume they believe that violence is a legitimate form of protest. I'd welcome a rational responce, but please save me the tabloid trash. I do pass my sympathies on to the prisoners and given the nature of such confrontations I'm sure they weren't the only ones to blame.

"The National Front, the BNP and other fascists have to be opposed anywhere and everywhere they try to organise."

There always has to be one idiot who starts off "I do not know the particulars of the case but" and then goes on to denounce people who are prepared to oppose hate groups as fascists themselves.

by Oly Thu Jun 27, 2002 14:27 buggeredby at priest dot com

If you saw a bunch of nazis selling their wares on a street in Dublin, for example, a newspaper with 'Niggers out' or 'Send home refugee scum', would you ask them politely to stop? Maybe you'd organise a rally and get your friends to bring placards. Maybe you'll walk past, shaking your head muttering something about freedom of speech and coming on to this board later to give out about them. Fuck that. The only language this scum understands is a smack in the face and a boot to the teeth. The only way to stop fuckers like that from selling and spreading their hate is direct action, and if that means kicking them off the streets, then that is what we should do.

I know two of the lads who got sent down from when I was living in Leeds. I'm proud of what they've done, and I'm sure they are too. If it means there's one racist bastard scared to walk the streets, it's a victory.

by BlackPope Thu Jun 27, 2002 17:13

Dear Blisset,

this reference is lost on me, as my reading skills never extended as far as Beckett - please enlighten me.

Dear Oly,

what you just said is in itself practically a definition of 'hate-speech'. You use this forum to spread your hate. Which private army should then come and kick your vigilante AntiFA-SA face in after all the bad 'nazis' have been dealt with?

Schalom, BlackPope

by Oly Thu Jun 27, 2002 18:52

Consider this:

A family of refugees is intimidated for weeks by a gang of neo-nazis. Excrement smeared on their doorstep, shouted at whenever spotted outside their home, threats of violence; with the police not interested until they get a firebomb through the window.

A group of nazis who advocate and embrace this kind of violence against innocent human beings are confronted by people who believe that they are wrong. A fight breaks out, guess who goes to jail.

If you see violence against minorities the same as violence against nazis, then all I can say is WOW!

If you were to see a racial attack happening in front of you, what would you do? Wave a placard? Maybe shout 'STOP' and run? If you were to hear people using racist terms, or brag about a racial attack to you, what would you do? Stay quiet, let the fucker speak and tell someone later? And what if you were to see someone that you -knew- hated groups of people so passionately that it would be just a matter of time before they attacked them, if they haven't already? Would you walk away, or confront them?

If you would not confront a racist in any other situation than them attacking someone, you have to ask yourself that if you believe in anything, how can you back down on some occasions and not others.

by babsdebrawl Fri Jun 28, 2002 15:34

yee ha, well done to the lads, brit narzis are particularly nasty cowardly hunscum. good to see em beaten in their own cuntry. keep up the good work, i was a member of the socialist party, and in my time i've beaten a few turncoat hunscum, but i had the smarts to make sure there were no witnesses and i've always got a way with crime, why do time when you can get away wif crime. sorry to hear the lads got sent down, next time make sure there's no witnesses.