Support for the Rossport 5 at the Hurling All-Ireland

by Bemused Fri Sep 16, 2005 14:45

Maybe he is, which is why I questioned why he was so agressive.

by interested Thu Sep 15, 2005 16:16

This is an artical in yesterdays Irish times.
Anyone know what the story is? I refuse to pay the website fee and didn't buy the paper.

by IF Wed Sep 14, 2005 18:50

Bemused - there are far more people who post on this site that you could aim such comments at.

Your holier than thou attitude is quite ironic. Could it be that the poster you have attempted to put down is also a victim in the injustice of this impasse?

by Bemused Wed Sep 14, 2005 18:20

Things are quiet in the media about this issue because there is an impasse - there has been no movement from Shell since mid-summer, nor has there been any move from the government since mid-summer; the newly commissioned safety review has yet to be completed and the case is not due in court until October 4th. From a news reporting point of view, nothing is happening; this is the reason for less coverage in the media. You can't expect reporters to repeat the same facts again and again; only columnists have that luxury. Your analysis of the situation is very immature; is this a game you want to win? Why do you gloat? Why such an emotional response to everything? What's your connection with this that you get so upset and angry in your postings? Were you bullied as a child? Do you have an inferiority complex that requires you to constantly have to put others down? Or are you paid to blog?

by Noel Wed Sep 14, 2005 14:24

Once the Shinners parachute into a protest the majority of Irish people lose interest and indeed become suspicious.
The SF vote has risen because coming from a position of fuck all it's not too difficult to improve.

by mayoman Wed Sep 14, 2005 14:18

SF have gone up in both the last two opinion polls. As for the campaign being dead, wishful thinking on your behalf and that of all the other friends of Shell. They timed this for the Dáil recess and Summer hoping that it would all be over by now. Instead, the Government will be coming back to find that it will be THE biggest issue they have to contend with and with the courts back and some major events planned, this will grow and grow.

by John Wed Sep 14, 2005 14:11

Its obvious you are both rather piqued because the whole Rossport 5 campaign is falling apart. No one is paying any attention. Its old hat now as far as the media are concerned. Attendances at demos are dwindling. Its on its last legs. SF and other leftist parties involved in the campaign have made no headway at all in the latest opinion poll, the first carried out since it began. You've wasted the entire summer with your silly demos. Just think of what you've missed. Sorry to rub it in. I know gloating is not particularily nice, but sometimes one can't resist it. Pack it in now and avoid further humiliation.

by Dubliner Wed Sep 14, 2005 13:07

Pointless individual, John. Find yourself a girlfriend and get away from the keyboard a bit more. You don't think anyone takes your adolescent taunts seriously, do you?

by Connacht Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:08

Pointless comment, John.

by John Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:58

Tragically pertinent to the point I made in my posts last night, I now see in the Irish Times website that a man was killed in Ballinasloe by the Dublin to Galway train last night. So, when does the campaign to close down railway lines to the West begin? Are any demonstrations planned?

by Tadhg Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:00

You know someone stole the t from Rossport during the match from our big poster?

We had to repair the sign with acrylic paint.

I wonder what they are going to do with our T...

by pr guru Wed Sep 14, 2005 02:14

we're not complete idiots, your writing style is identical and reminds me of pr speak, who do you work for? murrays? you sleep well?

by Michéal Ó Seighin - Prison no: 35992 Wed Sep 14, 2005 02:00 Cloverhill Prison, Dublin 22. 01 6304530

"Tis easy to forget that the objective of our being here is not first to get us out of jail but to make known the sad state to which Ireland has slumped and, nearly 100 years after independance our leaders, appointed and elected, seem to have no vision left - just a sickly version of grab what you can consumerism."

by Gyro Tue Sep 13, 2005 23:43

John lampoons the fact that even with such generous terms that our government offers, that international oil companies are not rushing in to take up our oil and gas. Fergusl Cahill of the Irish Offshore Operators’ Association raises the same issue in letters to national newspapers. Fintan O’Tooles column on the 16th August in the Irish Times pointed out that “The big International corporations – the Shells and BPs and ExxonMobils – are losing out to state-controlled energy companies”.

These state-controlled energy companies bring in the multi-nationals as equal partners. The governments have been able to tax the private sector companies more rigorously because it is not solely depending on them, a general principle of bargaining strategy established by Penrose many years ago (Penrose, 1960). Offering the carrot of low taxation rates to multi nationals, who are doing pretty nicely worldwide from the partnership arrangement, has no effect whatsoever!

Let me explain how this works in practice. There was a sharp disagreement on the 30th May 2002 between the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC) and its joint venture partners over execution of work-programme designed to substantially raise Nigeria’s crude oil reserves. The partners who include all the top Oil Multi-nationals were lax in keeping to their agreement in searching for new oil wells off Nigeria, so they were called to heel and told to spend a few shillings. The Nigerians invest a lot in their oil exploration programme through its investment arm of NNPC, the National Petroleum Investment Management Services. Partner Shell subsequently had quiet an upheaval to their share price, resignation of their chief executive etc. over the question of over valued reserves of oil/gas worldwide. So, they are under pressure to increase these reserves explaining why they are the most willing to take up Irish licences!

We are investing billions of euros in property abroad. Our banks are the most profitable in the world. Our government have been very successful in stoking (by well places tax relief schemes etc) the construction sector, one of the keys to our successful economy. The Irish have already positive indicators of the presence of hydrocarbons off our shores! With the price of oil rocketing upwards, and oil being so important to our commuter based economy; there is only one course of action that should be taken to safeguard our future economy. After all, everything up to now seems to be sacrificed at the ‘altar of economic prosperity’. Why the sudden reluctance when, in this humble writers opinion, investment in our hydrocarbons makes perfectly good sense?


Between 1966 and 1969 thirty-one dry holes at a cost of NOK 850 million were drilled by the Norwegians, without any significant find. They started with an old whaling ship and a derrick. The industry was becoming despondent and on the verge of packing up. Leading up to Christmas1969 the miracle happened, Philips Petroleum’s drilling rig the “Ocean Viking” struck a massive oil and gas field some 220kms from the town of Stavanger. The Norwegians now have close to €100Bn in a sinking fund, or retirement fund or whatever one wants to call it; all from the proceeds of oil and gas. What the hell are we arguing about? Those who speculate, accumulate!

What we need is a government with guts, a little fiscal/tax engineering and citizens will rush in an invest their surplus wealth. We have the Kinsale Field, Seven Heads Field, Corrib Gas Field. Tell me, how many more drips, drips, drips do we need to grow up and realise that there is liquid gold out there? Wealth that can secure the future for us Irish Citizens. The one major problem is that it needs investment on the Western Seaboard and no existing Dublin Government (includes the opposition) can see beyond the Pale. The fact that we could earn billions is jaundiced and coloured by the fact that investment will have to be diverted from Dublin! Remember the fishing industry when the Spanish fished Two Billion Euro a year off our shores through out the 20th Century! Dublin Political Parties will have to begin to start seeing beyond their noses if we are to profitably exploit our Hydrocarbons.

Rossport Five are innocent; but they languish in jail because of our political and legal system. The trial in connection with the killing of a Dublin lady, (May the Lord have mercy on her soul), could take place in August over in London, and reach a conclusion in early September. Mayo farmers have to wait close to one hundred days in jail until the Dublin Controlled Legal Fraternity return from their vacation! The English invested in our western ports and railways. The west was a triving place at the beginning of the 20th Century. It is now dying. I am a Mayoman in his fifties and am very worried that the Irish Race as a whole Has Lost It! The Rossport Five/ Exploitation of our Resources is a thundering disgrace and does not befit the current large salaries paid to our political representatives and legal profession!

by local Tue Sep 13, 2005 22:57

John have you not realised yet that your only supposed to have one view on this site? your supposed to be against Shell (and any chance of progress), and infavour of protests outside petrol stations (where people are trying to earn a wage) second guess the imprisoned 5(no other person in Rossport wanted this hassle!) why they cant purge their contempt and make sure you visit this beautiful area in Mayo that has been overrun with outsiders ( that people are sick of!!) watch how fast some commentators jump down my throat!

by John Tue Sep 13, 2005 22:12

If we are dependent on gas imports from eastern Europe and Siberia and these are disrupted by Al Quaida or other nutters in that part of the world, no one will be able to heat their homes, regardless of how well off or how badly off they are. What part of that don't you understand? Thousands will die. Hundreds of thousands will be laid off. Not me saying this, but ESRI. If gas is produced from within the country, that doomsday scenario simply doesn't arise. The price of the gas would, of course, continue to rise or fall in line with world market prices. In that respect the gas would be no different from other commodities produced in Ireland like potatoes or mushrooms, whose prices also move in line with world market prices. But, as long as the gas is physically available , it would be within the power of the elected government of the day to increase pensions to compensate for any increase in its price. That, of course, is what governments of different parties have always done in Ireland. This year pensions in Ireland have increased by 5 or 6 per cent in REAL terms, despite the increase in the price of imported oil and gas. If you want a detailed statistical analysis of the risk factor in other enterprises and activities for comparison with the risk factor in the Shell pipeline, I'll be perfectly happy to provide it. But, it will take some time. Its quite complex. But, if you require convincing, look at other countries that have major pipelines. How many people in western Europe have been killed by exploding pipelines? Now compare that with the number killed at level crossings. So, which is more dangerous? A gas pipeline running underground through the countryside, or a railway line running overground through the countryside? I don't see that there can be any doubt. When your arguments on the safety aspect of all this are shown to be absurd, you always seek an escape route by switching to the economics of it all. Most economists think the exploration terms granted in Ireland are perfectly reasonable, given the poor track record of oil and gas exploration in Ireland. Billions have been spent on exploration since 1970 and only 2 small gas fields discovered. Its absurd to suggest that Ireland can impose the same terms as Norway, since hundreds of oil and gas fields have been discovered in Norwegian waters. Most countries start off with reasonably generous terms to encourage exploration in unproven waters. If lots of discoveries are made, they grant less generous terms for the next round of licenses. If no discoveries are made, they may well be forced to grant still more generous exploration terms to retain any interest at all from exploration companies. Thats what happened in Ireland. You all seem to hanker for a return to the exploration terms granted by socialist Justin Keating in 1975. But, you forget that during the 15 years or so that those exploration terms were in operation, absolutely no oil or gas was discovered in Irish waters. Not one drop of oil and not one cubic foot of gas. Quite naturally, by the late 80s oil and gas exploration companies had lost all interest in exploring Irish waters. The Corrib field would never have been discovered if the exploration terms granted by Keating had not been relaxed, since no exploration would have taken place in Irish waters during the 1990s. Naturally, one hopes that the Corrib discovery is the first of many. Should that happen, then the Government (and I'm sure any alternative Government too) have allready said that less generous terms would be granted in subsequent rounds of licenses. Thats how it was done in the North Sea. But, it must be said, the antics of all these protestors are reducing the chances of that situation coming about, since the hostility they are showing to the exploration company that discovered the Corrib field may well deter other companies from exploring Irish waters.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Tue Sep 13, 2005 20:44

Do you notice, Trondheim, the issue is very much alive. with Shell supporters like yourself falling over themselves on these threads trying unsuccessfully to make the issue go away and vilify the cause of the steadfast Rossport 5.

I've been listening to the same tune from Shell supporters since the very first week of the shameful imprisonment of these brave men but facts won't buckle before Shell propaganda

by Gregor Kerr - WSM - 1st May - pers. cap. Tue Sep 13, 2005 20:12 kerrgregor at yahoo dot co dot uk

"If this project is stopped by rabble-rousers like Jerry Cowley and we have old people dying of cold in 3 or 4 years as a result of gas supplies from eastern Europe being cut off, then Cowley and his cronies should be charged with murder. As for Sinn Fein...."

You do realise of course John that unless the 'old people dying of cold..' can afford to buy gas at the then current market rate, it won't matter under the present deal whether it comes from the Corrib gas field, Kinsale, Eastern Europe, Norway or anywhere else. They'll still be dying of cold because we live in a system where the ability of Shell et al to make unlimited profits is much more important than the fate of the old or the poor.

by SH Tue Sep 13, 2005 20:11

John,

For someone who claims to have studied statistics in QUB perhaps you would like to produce your figures for the statistics that you claimed to be comparing. We would all be deligthed to see your figures.

This deal is not in the national interest. It is a travesty of a deal. Corrupt Fianna Fail ministers and other useful idiots have pulled a fast one. This deal is a terrible deal for the country. Tax take will be abysmal on what this project is worth. But hey John ignore it maybe Shell and Bertie will but you a drink if you keep trying to distort things. Statistically they are much more likely to buy you a drink then us.

by John Tue Sep 13, 2005 20:01

The risk from this pipeline is minuscule. All sorts of things bring minuscule risks. When you bring people from Mayo to Dublin for protests outside the Dail, there is a risk of an accident en route. Statistically, there's a much bigger risk from doing that than from this pipeline. If every industrial enterprise that brought some risk with it was abandoned, the country would be an economic desert. You'd have to close half the factories in the country. You'd also have to close all the airports since the risk of a plane falling out of the sky onto a residential area is much greater than any risk associated with this pipeline. You'd also have to close all the railway lines from Dublin to the West, since on average 2 or 3 people are killed annually at level crossings on these lines. That's a vastly greater risk than any risk associated with this pipeline. The overwhelming statistical probability is that during the lifetime of this pipeline, no one will be killed or injured. Apparently you are going to protest at the All-Ireland football final. I shall be there proudly sporting the red and white of Tyrone. I do hope you're not going to try to have it cancelled, because statistically there is a far greater chance of one of the 80,000 attendance being killed or injured in a road or rail accident on the way to or from the match than of anyone being killed or injured as a result of this pipeline exploding. Should you succeed in forcing the processing of the gas out to sea, the risk of fatalities (from a helicopter accident) is much greater than if the gas is processed on land. May I recommend that you enrol in a course on risk analysis at one of our universities. As for selling the gas abroad, gas is not like a pint of Guinness that you put in a bottle and ship abroad. The only way it could be exported is via a pipeline that would have to traverse half the length of Ireland before it got to a point where it could connect up with any foreign-controlled gas pipeline. If our gas supplies from abroad were halted, is it likely the elected Government would permit the country to grind to a halt and our senior citizens to freeze to death while having it within its power to physically stop that flow of gas from Ireland. The idea is daft. And, if they did permit it, they's be out on their ass in an hour. As for your comments about splitting up farms, they'll receive massive compensation. Land is often compulsorily acquired for roads, railways, houses, schools, hospitals. In all cases the landowners receive massive compensation. Is this what socialism in Ireland is now reduced to? Defending the rights of a few landowners to stop a project that is clearly in the interests of the vast majority of the population.

by Connacht Tue Sep 13, 2005 18:31

John has become very sentimental about old people dying of the cold in winter all of a sudden. Why concern for one sector of society and nothing but contempt for those who lie close to a potentially dangerous pipeline, whose farms are to be split up by this pipeline - you're not too bothered about how this might effect their safety, security, health or how it might effect them economically either, are you?

Again, John and In Favour are harping on about the security of supply. Objectors to this proposed pipeline object to the potential danger posed to them by this proposed pipeline, not to the bringing ashore of gas in itself. If the gas is brought ashore in a manner in which all applicable safety standards are applied, then as far as I understand it, they have no problem with it. It's time you both dropped that argument because you have been corrected on this many times. What you are posting is not only an incorrect interpretation of their objections, but you are lowering the tone on these postings by being so dismissive and contemptuous.

"Anyone who thinks that any part of the Corrib gas would be exported is misguided" . Whatever about being misguided, In Favour is actually incorrect in this. There is nothing to prevent the gas from being exported. SEPIL will be selling the gas at market prices, so although In Favour and John might rightly or wrongly be concerned about security of supply, for as long as there is security, SEPIL will freely sell, or export as the case may be, their gas to the highest bidder. That's how the market works. They're not a charity.

by John Tue Sep 13, 2005 18:30

Excellent post by 'In favour'. Couldn't have put it better myself. If this project is stopped by rabble-rousers like Jerry Cowley and we have old people dying of cold in 3 or 4 years as a result of gas supplies from eastern Europe being cut off, then Cowley and his cronies should be charged with murder. As for Sinn Fein, its part of their long-term strategy to cause the maximum economic distress possible, that being their only route to power. They'd love nothing better than the mother of all energy crises in Ireland in a few years time that resulted in hundreds of thousands of lay-offs and thousands of deaths of old people, knowing that their well-financed propaganda department would ensure their part in helping to create the crisis was forgotten. Its time people realised that energy is the main, weakness in the Irish economy and everything that can be done to increase energy supplies from within Ireland should be proceeded with as quickly as possible.

by In favour Tue Sep 13, 2005 17:36

John is absolutely correct. Anyone who thinks that any part of the Corrib gas would be exported is misguided, to be kind or just plain stupid. We are now a net importer of gas as kinsale is depleting. In other words we are on the end of a very long pipe. This, along with other reasons, is why we have one of the most expensive energy costs in europe. Security of supply is hugely important, particularly as our electricity demands continue to rise and our economy develops at the highest rate in europe. Corrib is a very important part of our continued economic success as this gas supply will assist meeting our increased electricity demand. Put quite simply by ESRI last week, if security of supply is interupted (as is possible in our current situation) the lights will go out and we will have an energy crisis like never before. Mayoman et al - this is a nationally important project and needs to be developed - and pronto!

by John Tue Sep 13, 2005 16:39

Its totally false that 73 per cent of the Corrib gas will be sold abroad. Not only false, but daft. In international terms Corrib is a tiny gas field. Its only large enough to meet about half of Ireland's demand for gas. There is no surplus for export. Neighbouring countries, to whom you presumably believe the Corrib gas will be exported, have gas fields that supply one thousand times the amount of gas that Corrib has. What Corrib will do is enable us to cut by half our imports of gas from abroad. Corrib on its own will not create an economic bonanza. Its far too tiny. But, if further discoveries are made, then thousands of jobs will be created. By driving the exploration companies out of Ireland, these protestors are doing everything in their power to ensure that there will be no further discoveries. If the UK and Norway had had similar protests after the first tiny gas field was discovered in the North Sea in 1965, then there would have been no North Sea Oil bonanza for those countries. The main advantage of the Corrib field on its own is increased security of supply. I suggest you read the ESRI statement on this released last week. The ESRI pointed out the dangers of Ireland relying for its supplies of gas on gas fields several thousand miles away in eastern Europe and in Siberia. If these supplies were disrupted by terrorist attacks, thousands of old people would die of cold in Ireland in winter. Thats what the ESRI said. No doubt such a situation would be to the electoral advantage of Sinn Fein, which may be another reason why they are trying to stop the development of the Corrib field. Trondheim is right. The whole protest is now fizzling out. No one is interested. It will collapse completely once the cold wet weather arrives. Won't be long now.

by Niall Harnett - Clare Shell to Sea / Rossport Solidarity Camp / Gluaiseacht Tue Sep 13, 2005 16:31 clare at shelltosea dot com

If we can get Statoil / Norway to withdraw from the Corrib gas project, as it stands now, that would be a step in renegotiating the deal in favour of the Irish people and reclaiming that gas for ourselves.
Padraig Campbell, Shell to Sea & SIPTU offshore spokesman, did also suggest, in the event of a renegotiation, consulting the Norwegian Oil Industry as to how best to manage the gas.
We will continue to work to expose the nature of the original deal in the first place. We will continue to work to expose the nature of the deal between Shell and the State with regard to land use etc.
These factors, and more combined, will result in the failure of the Corrib Gas project as it's currently proposed, and a new deal done constructed on the wishes and consent of the Irish people.

Vindicate The Rossport Five.

Shell Chun Farraige.

Drown the fuckers!

by mayoman Tue Sep 13, 2005 13:26

I wouldn't pay much attention to John. His only contribution to discussions on Rossport have been of this calibre - smart ass comments and defence of Shell and the state.

Shane is of course right in stating that the Irish people will get sweet f a from the Corrib field; in real jobs, revenue or cheaper gas. So closing the current project down would be no loss whatsover.

by Trondheim Tue Sep 13, 2005 13:01

Funny, 5 men being imprisoned by an Irish court for obstructing a project with financial benefits to a norwegian company didn't exactly rate highly in the voting consciousness of the Norwegian voters.

Let's be honest about it, for all the initial high profile publicity around the corrib field, it's become 'old news' and neither the mainstream media, the voters or the general public really seem that interested anymore, regardless of how many petrol station protests you have.

Current activists work simply hasn't worked.

by Shane - Socialist Party & Shell to Sea Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:32

The sad thing is that John's comments are not unusual. However it takes a lot of work to keep a broad campaign moving. Not because all of those involved don't believe they are fighting for the same thing but because of a desire in many people to open old wounds and unnecessarily stir s**t. The fact of the matter is that while it may have been tempting for John to take a swipe at SF he is missing the point. At present the Irish people have no rights to the corrib gas. We will be sold 27% of the gas at market rates (which have risen significantly). This means that we might as well be importing this gas as it will have no real benefit for the Irish people. The other 73% of the gas is going to leave the country nayway. The norwegian semi-state company Statoil has a better reputation than most oil companies when it comes to protection of the environment and of people. However in this situation their behaviour has been at odds with their record. By putting pressure on the norwegians we can get them to pull out of the consortium we are actually creating a situation where the gas can be used for the benefit of Irish people and perhaps more consideration will be shown for our people and countryside. I would urge everyone to write to the norwegian ambassador and keep the pressure mounted, our own government have let us down so we must turn to another.

by mary belmullet Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:29

Shame on our Irish govt for not sorting out this problem in the first place never mind Norway!

by John Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:11

Lets get this straight. Sinn Fein hope to use their influence with a foreign government to get them to halt the development of the Corrib gas field knowing that, if the Corrib development doesn't go ahead, Ireland will then have to import its gas from that very same country. I'd call that economic treason. From the point of view of the Norwegian government, it makes sense to prevent the development of gas fields in other European countries, since that will increase those countries' dependence on Norway. How much are the Norwegians paying Sinn Fein to stop the development of Ireland's offshore gas industry?

by eif Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:35

shame to have to depend on norway's government to sort out the problems of ours

by Mayoman Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:20

Looks like the Socialist Left party will be in coalition with Labour following yesterdays general elections. Contact has been made with the SV regarding Rossport by Sinn Féin who have fraternal links and apparently SV favour getting Statoil to withdraw from Corrib. Interesting times ahead!

by Tadhg Mon Sep 12, 2005 20:39

The Corpo are very slow to remove our posters around Croke Park after matches these days-signs of support on behalf of the City Council Council workers?

Dublin by night

This poster has been here two weeks

Gill's Corner House