Anti War vigil as US Joint Chief of Staff meets Minister of Defence

by Elaine Wed Jul 20, 2005 23:24

Great Men

The great ones of the earth
Approve, with smiles and bland salutes, the rage
And monstrous tyranny they have brought to birth.
The great ones of the earth
Are much concerned about the wars they wage,
And quite aware of what those wars are worth.

You Marshals, gilt and red,
You Ministers and Princes, and Great Men,
Why can't you keep your mouthings for the dead?
Go round the simple cemeteries; and then
Talk of our noble sacrifice and losses
To the wooden crosses.

- Siegfried Sassoon

Waving for the Tourists

Now theres a sight you don't see every day! Catholic Workers and IAWM tell it like it is

Waiting for the General (on a grassy knoll)

by BG Thu Jul 21, 2005 01:11

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70964

by Noel Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:52

Wow ,

I am sure Myers will be quaking in his boots, what a sad bunch of idiots you are, the only ones you do any harm to is your demented campaign.

Gen Meyers was here representing the brave soldiers of his country which are fighting and dying to protect the freedom you enjoy to insult him. In my view you should have been thanking him and his country.

You are an embarrassment to this country

by tell it like it is Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:01

I think you probably mean the poor, innocent, socially disadvantaged f**kers who mostly signed up due to economic hardship in the hope of bettering their lot and are now dying in far foreign fields for the greater glory of the plutocrats and oil barons ... not to mention the huge numbers of wounded and maimed who are clogging up the US military hospitals in Germany and elsewhere but who thankfully can be kept out of the news.

The number of people who believe that the USA is fighting for "freedom" in Iraq is pretty low these days. Maybe you should get out a bit more Noel and talk to some real people. Spending too much time in cosseted circles can seriously skew your view of what is really going on in the world among ordinary people.

But I forgot, you and your elitist ilk have nothing but contempt for "ordinary people". You just want to tell us what we should think and believe.

by Ciaron - Pit Stop PLoughshares/Dublin Catholic Worker (personal capacity) Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:34 087 918 4552

Noel your sad little litany of abuse, empty state authoured cliches and imperial cheerleading are now worth repsonding to, so I won't.

This visual opposition to U.S. General Myers (see the above link for his 30 year history in the dark arts of mass murder rorm Indo China to Afghanistan to Iraq) visit to Dublin was initiated at 10.30 pm the night before...so given a 18 hour start it wasn't bad.

We were way outnumbered by heaps of Garda - 2 inspectors, sergants & rank 'n file. This goes to show that the State took this visit & the possibility of anti-war opposition more seriously than the broader peace and justice movement in Ireland takes itself! IAWM maintained a presence at the more secluded entrance to the MOD building & the DCW crew maintained a vigil at the more visible entry to Phoenix Park. Autonomy and mutuality worked well.

There was a lot of supportive response from passing traffic to the anti-war vigil which indicates there is a lot of passive opposition to escalated Irish involvement in this illegal invasion of Iraq that rarely translates into public expression. I've been here 3 years and haven't worked out if this passivity is cultural (800 years of colonisation within the pale), geographic (we're on an island + shit weather=introspection orientation) or the times we're in (atomisation + privatisation of life post Celtic Tiger). Any way lots to ponder while vigilling!

It has been an interesting week in terms of American elites in Dublin. An NBC (war cheerleading network owned by Arms manufaturer General Electric) crew have been investigating Ireland as the soft entry point for fundamentalist Islamic warriors into Europe, a senior member of the FBI golfed and met with senior Garda this past weekend. And now Bush and Rumsfield's main military adviser, Chair of the Joint Chiefs Staff and international, wholesale terrorist extradorniairre General Richard B Myers. The General prefers to do his bombing from 20,000 feet and call it foreign policy.

Monday's Evening Herald credits General Myers with masterminding the wholesale terrorism of the U.S. B-52 bomnbardments and carpet bombing that spearheaded the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, is in town! The tactic of "Shock and Awe" that opened the Iraq invasion was modelled on Hiroshima, to terrorise the entire population with such indiscriminate firepower that it would wipe any will to resist. Well that's what I call terrorism and looks like a complete failure in terms of its objectives outlined 2 years on.

The Herald also celebrates that relationships between Irish and U.S. militaries are presently at an all time high due to the central role played by Shannon Airport in the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq. The special relationship Ireland has with the U.S. can only be described as faking orgasm while being raped.

If the NBC theory is right (which I doubt), Ireland could be used in a similar way that Liverpool was used by the paramilitaries...for safe house and caches but not as a target.So if you're taking the ostrich position that may bring some comfort! Otherwise Shannon Airport remains a soft & significant target in this war that has come home to NYC, Bali Aussie hangouts, Madrid and now London. What we do know is that British security has been expecting this latest attack for 3 years ("it's not a question of if but when") and they have spent 3 years preparing their post attack agenda eg. disconnect the London bombings from the invasion of Iraq in the public mind, prepackaged anti-terrorist legislation that will limit all dissidents ability to organise and express ourselves.

You can be sure that the U.S. has bene preparing it's own post-London agenda and part of that agenda is escalating Ireland's role in U.S. warfare and serving & securing U.S. imperial ambitions.
The gombeens that pass for Government Ministers & TD's parrot the line that 28,000 U.S. troops through Shannon Airport month does not mean Ireland is part of the war on Iraq which is as convincing as Ahern applauding the 100,000 on Feb 15th. marching against the war for "supporting his government's position". Say it three times and believe seems the logic of these folks.

Ploughshares return to trial October 24th. We will have a series of events leading up to trial and welcome many international anti-war resisters to Dublin for the weeks of trial.

We continue to vigil outside the GPO on Mondays 4pm-6pm. Drop by for a chat if you're in the vicinity

by A Thu Jul 21, 2005 13:26

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71027

by Michael Thu Jul 21, 2005 13:45

1. Find someone who's got access to a library computer in TCD, UCD, etc...
2. Give them these links, asking them to send you the content.
3. Share it with the rest of us (too cheap to pay for a subscription).
4. ?
5. Get rich!

Public opinion in the Republic of Ireland - 2003
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com


The "War on Terror" and Non-alignment

Andrew Newby and Gavan Titley

Abstract:

Against such an enemy, there can be no neutrality.

--President George W. Bush, March 11, 2002

Two European Union countries--Ireland and Finland--could never be called "enemies" of America. Nevertheless, they remain, for historical and pragmatic reasons, outside any formal military alliances. Because of this non-alignment, they have been pressured since 9/11 to state exactly where they stand in relation to the U.S. and its "War on Terror." Both are members of NATO's Partnership for Peace (PfP) initiative, and their positions are closer to what James Skelly has described as "impartial" rather than isolationist neutrality.

Finnish soldiers have served with distinction in peace-keeping operations and their diplomats have been seen as honest brokers in Yugoslavia and Northern Ireland. Irish soldiers have helped to keep the fragile peace in Lebanon and East Timor, and Ireland has provided the UN with major .gures such as Mary Robinson and Dennis Halliday. The importance the citizens of these countries has given to the role of the UN in world affairs was amply illustrated in the anti-war demonstrations of early 2003, when the light-blue flags of the UN were much in evidence in Helsinki and Dublin.

Some parties claim that non-alignment remains so popular with the Finnish and Irish people because they fail to understand contemporary geopolitics. Yet, it is more than coincidence that both countries witnessed at close hand some of the hypocrisy at work in the War on Terror. Finland borders Russia, whose government has used much of the Bush rhetoric to justify a mutually destructive campaign in Chechnya. The Irish, similarly, have observed for decades the way the British government has conducted a "dirty war" in Northern Ireland. With this experience comes a realization that terror, whatever form it takes, can seldom be beaten by violence. By contrast, and perhaps by necessity, the governments of these countries have obfuscated the issue in order to be all things to all people. The high-wire act that both have performed in order to convince their electorates that their non-aligned status is intact, and yet at the same time keep in Bush's good books, has produced great elasticity in definitions of neutrality.
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/

by Noel Thu Jul 21, 2005 13:58

Ah yes lads,

Come on now you are neither anti-war nor pro peace ye are simply anti-american.

All this shite about the American military, dont foret that twice in the last century the US came to the aid of Europe and saved democracy. Do you think that Hitler would have allowed you protest like this.

which country stood up to Communism and defended Europe.

It is American lives that have given you the right to talk this shite and protest. Its apalling that you now turn on the very defenders of your freedoms.

What do you think would have happened if you did this in Iraq pre invasion.

Is there anything you guys agree with

And another thing its a bit ironic that a group calling itself "Catholic Workers" etc are protesting against the spread of American Imperialism

I mean the catholic church could never be described as being imperialistic, holding peoples lives to ransom and placing no value on human life now could it, remember boys and girls the head of the catholic church was once a nazi.

As father Ted once said

"Nazis are people who dressed in balck and went around telling people what to do, priests arent like that"

by redjade Thu Jul 21, 2005 14:06

perhaps a bad day for willie to associate with war criminals?

by Noel Thu Jul 21, 2005 14:18

Where are the headlines about the thousands saved because of the invasion,

wars produce casualties thats a fact but in the long term Iraq is better off

by redjade Thu Jul 21, 2005 14:22

That's an off equation you have there - so, how many Iraqis would have to die under US/K occupation before Iraqis would not be 'better off'?

Please tell us a number.

by Anarch Thu Jul 21, 2005 14:37

Noel - welcome to Planet Catholic Worker, check link, alleviate your ignorance


http://movies.lovarchy.org/POA/

by Noel Thu Jul 21, 2005 14:48

http://www.catholicworker.org/index.cfm

by redjade Thu Jul 21, 2005 14:51

That's just the central webpage

ok, here's the more local Catholic Workers
http://www.geocities.com/DublinCatholicWorker

Noel, will you answer my question? How many must die before its not worth it, from your perspective?

by Noel Thu Jul 21, 2005 15:00

As many as it takes

The end justifies the means

by redjade Thu Jul 21, 2005 15:23

I appreciate your clarity.

by redjade Thu Jul 21, 2005 16:38

Rep. Ted Strickland [D-OH]

[....]

Then he concludes his e-mail with this sentence. "The gap between President Bush's rhetoric and the reality that I saw on the ground is enormous." It is time for some truth telling from this President and this administration. The American people can deal with the truth. But I say to my friend from Hawaii (Mr. Abercrombie), the American people are sick and tired of exaggerations, of distortions, of mischaracterizations, of twisted and distorted intelligence.

The American people and young Americans like John Bocerri that I just talked about earlier deserve to hear the truth from this President.

I thank the gentleman for allowing me to join him for these moments. It is good to be back with my fellow colleagues as we talk about these important issues.

Chair: The Chair will remind Members to refrain from personally offensive references toward the President.

Rep. Ted Strickland [D-OH]: Mr. Speaker, as a parliamentary inquiry, does that mean that I cannot make characterizations about actions that are taken by this administration?

Chair: References to the President suggesting he obscured the truth are out of order.

Rep. Ted Strickland [D-OH]: May I say that the President mischaracterized the intelligence?

Chair: Mischaracterizations, without an intent to deceive, are not necessarily out of order.

Rep. Ted Strickland [D-OH]: I thank the Speaker.

I would clarify my statement by saying that I believe the President has mischaracterized the intelligence and that, in fact, has led us into a war that in my judgment has not been justified.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-h20050719-64

Ted Strickland:
http://www.house.gov/strickland/
http://www.stricklandforcongress.com/

by wayne Fri Jul 22, 2005 05:57

Well Noel It`s not funny that annalists are now predicting civil war in occupied Iraq, and that Terrorism is at an all time high since the invasion. No one is questioning the defence of freedom, but our own `heroes` are commin home in bags mate and those alive are suffering from the effects uf DU. Do you know what DU is Noel. Talk to ANY Gulf War vet. or soldier comming home from Iraq.
.....and check out the effects of DU, it`s not funny.

by Noel Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:15

Freedom has a price

by By Any Means Necessary Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:30

" The generals gave thanks as the other ranks held back the enemy tanks for a while...!!! "

There can be no doubting that arm chair "freedom fighters" revel in the death and glory antics of warfare...the US Army is down on recruits and black and hispanic recruits who used to take up 21% of places are significantly down.....the pool of willing recruits is lessening every day....what do you say about that...?

No Iraqi ever called me ni**er


So go you and fight your war against terror, leave us out of it

by Noel Fri Jul 22, 2005 13:20

If I could I would go,

Again your statistics are wrong just like the warped statistics regarding vietnam, balck and hispanics make up the same proportion of the military that they in society in the US.

Freedom has a price, now dont live in freedom and condemn those that give you that freedom

leave you out of is

I would willingly but you are protected by the freedom that the US gives the world

Death in war is horrible but its inevitable and in 5 years time Iraqis will thank those who liberated their country

100,000 or 1000000 may have to die but its a price worth paying

by eeekkkk Fri Jul 22, 2005 13:22

it would be 'worth it'.

by John McDermott - www.soldiersofdestiny.org Fri Jul 22, 2005 22:07

Bush took his eye off the ball when he destroyed Sadaam Hussein.The biggest own goal in history.Pity his american squaddies,G.I.,s. who come home in bodybags once more.
A new Vietnam.
Pity more the suffering people of Iraq,
The Bushes,and many American Presidents have dealt fraternally in the past with far worse tyrants in their own southern pl;ayground of Latin America....
Even armed them and sent in advisors...
The only nation that Sadaam really harried was Israel.
Who rules America.?
God bless America.
And God bless Israel too.
God bless the suffering ,and the maimed ,and the dead ;from whatever faction ,or religion, or alliance ...

by Fuse Fri Jul 22, 2005 22:32

I wonder if Noel was paid a visit and whisked away to an American holding centre, without charge or representation, indefinitely would he be as supportive of America's war on terror? Would he continue to be assured that the ends justify the means? Noel, it's not freedom or justice we're all alarmed at, it's the abuse of it - can you see that? At all? I suspect you can and you have a little too much time on your hands..

by curious Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:05

So why can't you Noel ?
This is no time for making feeble excuses.
"We" are engaged in a global war on "Terror".
Time for you to give a good example and don a uniform and play your part. Or do you prefer hiding behind your keyboard and playing the armchair warrior ?

by Andy N Sat Aug 13, 2005 14:06

Jaiz Michael - give us your email (or email me on [email protected]) and I'll send you a copy! Andy Newby

by Barry Sat Aug 13, 2005 17:58

There is absolutely no problem for foreign based workers getting very well paid jobs driving lorries in the supply convoys for military bases . No problem at all getting that type of work . Surely youd be of more use to the war effort that way than sitting on a computer . If you really really believ this sacrifice for freedom is worth a million Iraqi lives then you should be prepared to sacrifice your own current job as well . So many of your American and British buddies are dying and your just lingering behind the lines doing SFA . Shame on you .

Go on Noel , the boys and girls desperately need those supplies , join the convoys and get to it .

by kintama Sat Aug 13, 2005 18:39

not to worry if Noel cant drive I will give him a lift as far as Syria.