Sinn Féin Council Victories on Aer Lingus

by Dermot Lacey - City Councillor Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:01 dermot_lacey at labour dot ie

The motion was in fact co-signed by Councillors, Brendan Carr, Kevin Humphreys, Dermot Lacey, Dathai Doolin and Larry O'Toole

by Socialist Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:12

Sinn Fein delivers windfall for developers
By Cllr. Clare Daly
In January of this year, communities in Swords and Dublin 15 were celebrating the success of Socialist Party motions, that secured a green belt zoning on hundreds of acres of land, which had been targeted for residential development.

Of all the Dublin councils, Fingal has experienced the most growth, with the majority of that concentrated in the above areas.

Residents face daily gridlock, inadequate public transport, a schools' crisis and total dearth of facilities. The failure of the government to implement the Kenny Report on the control of the price of building land has fuelled massive speculation and profiteering. This has led to the phenomenal price of housing, and failure to deliver the necessary infrastructure to support the scale of development has resulted in residents paying on the double for this crisis.

At the end of May, the Development Plan changes had to be ratified by the Councillors. With decisions making a difference of millions to developers and landowners, the lobbying was intense to get some of the decisions overturned. The new brown envelope of "community gain" was introduced whereby the lack of schools and facilities were used by the developers to offer land for community purposes in return for getting thousands of houses. This is simply a more sophisticated version of interference in the planning process.

But for the first time, last year's local elections had broken the rezoning alliance of the right-wing parties which had dominated Fingal since its inception. The Socialist Party, Labour, the Greens and Sinn Fein, all of whom contested the elections on an anti-developer, pro-community platform, had a majority, and a real opportunity was posed to secure proper planning that took account of infrastructure.

However in a disgusting move, Sinn Fein sided with Fianna Fail and Fine Gael to overturn the decision for 140 acres in Swords and restore the residential zonings. Their Councillor did not participate in any of the discussions during the months of meetings on this plan and yet it was with that one vote that all the campaigning of the community was betrayed.

In Barnhill in Dublin 15, it was the absence of Sinn Fein and a U-turn by the Greens which saw a similar green belt zoning overturned.

These parties claim to represent the interests of ordinary people. They have betrayed the communities which elected them and ensured that the developers are laughing all the way to the bank. And these parties claim to be the radical alternative!

by The Daly Mail Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:29

Stop housing the proletariat! It is regressive, it makes them complacent; if we send them to shanty towns they will more readily revolt - Socialist Alliance for Property Tyranny

by Confuddled Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:32

Is this the same rezoning with the Gaelscoil and Educate Together schools that were facing closure and possible re-location if the SP got their way? I could very well be wrong, there's a lot of rezoning in Fingal.

by Indy Council Corr Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:33

Apologies to Cllr Lacey and thanks for the correction.

by the magnificent lord rothschild Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:33

Far better to herd them into overpriced jerry-built suburban estates and have them schackled with unpayable mortgage debts ... that'll put manners on them .....

by Mortgages!!! Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:57

Why, you're too kind, Lord Roth. Mortgages should be confined to the middle classes. Join the Socialist Alliance Against Mortgages for Poorer People.

by SP member Tue Jun 14, 2005 13:18

The reference to the Educate Together and Irish language school is a red herring. They would not have had to relocate if the rezoning had not gone ahead. You do not need a residential rezoning to construct a school.

Instead the developer went directly to the school board and parents' organisation and promised to construct a new building for them if they supported his rezoning. A section of the board and parents went along with this.

Naturally they were dissatisfied with their kids school operating out of a prefab and the lack of funding from the Dept of Education but this does not justify doing business in this fashion with developers. This is the new method of corruption in planning in Fingal. Because there is so much scrutiny on politicians taking brown envelopes the developers look to splitting the communtiy by offering to throw in a playground or sports field or school building.

There is already enough land rezoned residential in Swords that has not yet been built upon to satisfy the projected housing needs for the next six years. The Sinn Fein posters here are doing a grave injustice to the SP and community activists in Swords and elsewhere whose agenda is one of putting pressure on the council and government to develop the overstretched infrastructure in North County Dublin before further housing expansion takes place.

Sinn Fein do have a certain record in opposing bad planning proposals in other local authorities but their short time on Fingal has proven ignominious. Their councillor Felix Gallagher did not table a single motion on the scores of rezonnig proposals even in his own area of Mulhuddart.

He ignored the pleas of leading Sinn Fein activist in Swords, Matt McCormack to oppose the controversial rezoning prosals in Swords. In the end Felix took his cue from Sinn Fein head office (according to Matt McCormack) and sided with FF and FG in the Glen Ellen rezoning. He absented himself moments before the Rivervalley vote took place. In this instance the vote was tied 11 to 11 but Labour had the chairs casting vote.

by election watch Tue Jun 14, 2005 13:29

With Sinn Fein having initiatives like that and claiming sole credit it would appear that election fever has hit them. There is not a mention of Socialist Party councillors even where in Fingal one of the SP cllrs is a Shop Steward in Aer Lingus and is well known for her opposition to the right-wing sell-off of the company. SF also overlook the fact that there they were not the only party supporting/proposing the motions. Fair play to them if it was a genuine attempt to raise the issue. But my impression is that it was done to make it appear they did something on workers' rights in the past while.

by SP member Tue Jun 14, 2005 16:06

http://sinnfein.ie/news/detail/8335

Try make sense of this press release from February. I have read it thrice and I can't make head nor tail of its line of arguement.

by Sinn Féin Tue Jun 14, 2005 17:11

14 June, 2005

Sinn Féin councillors in Dublin succeeded in building a cross-party coalition to oppose the proposed sale of Aer Lingus at Dublin City and South Dublin Council meetings on Monday evening.

Councillors from Labour, the Greens and Fine Gael, along with Independents swept away opposition from Fianna Fáil and PD representatives across Dublin as Sinn Féin councillors followed up on the work of the party's TDs who had put a similar motion to Leinster House less than three weeks ago.

In Dublin City a delegation of high-ranking SIPTU Aer Lingus officials there at the invitation of the Sinn Féin Group watched as the sale of the airline was opposed. Their presence followed a meeting with SIPTU last Friday attended on behalf of Sinn Féin by Mary Lou McDonald MEP, Seán Crowe TD and councillors Daithí Doolan and Larry O'Toole.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Féin Tue Jun 14, 2005 17:23

Some things are inevitable. Gravity, the night following day, the aging process, annonymous SP members making false and misleading statements on Indymedia.

"He ignored the pleas of leading Sinn Fein activist in Swords, Matt McCormack to oppose the controversial rezoning prosals in Swords. In the end Felix took his cue from Sinn Fein head office (according to Matt McCormack)"

Not a shred of truth in this statement. Not a single solitary one.

"He absented himself moments before the Rivervalley vote took place."

Those who know me will be aware I've little time for the SP as a whole and like not a member of it, but I do genuinely respect some SP activists, and Higgins and Daly would normally come to mind.

But Clare Daly knows why Felix wasn't at that vote. She knows why he left. She knows it relates to a medical emergency. And she decides to use it to score cheap political points. I look forward to being able to do the same to her some day.

As for election fever, Jesus boys, grow up. It's two years away and you think press releases on indymedia are a sign of election fever?

And if you can't understand the press release there are classes in literacy availble in Dublin. The position not only makes sense, it was the one argued for by the workers of Dublin Airport, whom Ms Daly declined to represent on this issue. Don't remind her about it though, she's a wee bit embarassed.

Felix voted the way he did on the Swords rezoning for a number of reasons.

Firstly, we're in the middle of a housing crisis in this country and housing, especially the hundreds of social housing units contained in the development are badly needed.

Secondly, Sinn Féin has a strong position of supporting Gaelscoileanna and Educate Together schools. I have no idea what position the SP have on such and less interest but we take both initiatives seriously and give them our support when we can.

Thirdly, while we agree with many of the points made about congestion and lack of infrastructure , the Minister for Local Government has indicated that he will reject the Development Plan if there is not adequate 'headroom' rezoning. The ramifications of this are that the County Manager would be given the authority to carry out any rezoning he wished. Both the rezonings in question will be subject to rigourous planning requirements and local area plans.

As for Sinn Féin being finished in Swords, since FF and FG backed the motion are they finished too? In that case should Clare get a running mate to sweep into power? Is this your strategy for taking a seat in Dublin North?

And btw, the Greens backed the Barnhill rezoning too. Tut, tut, so forgetful.

Lastly, one SP wonders why the Socialist Party councillors in Fingal weren't mentioned in the press release. Well the Socialist Party councillors in Fingal didn't back a motion opposing the sale of Aer Lingus because the motion put in by Felix was ruled out of order on spurious grounds and they didn't bother to lend any support. So why mention them?

And a final note to Indy Council Corr. While your decision to post the press releases on the bin charges and Aer Lingus was probably done with the best of intentions, take my advice as someone who used to use Indymedia quite a bit.

It's not worth it. There's no genuine debate on this site and few people interested in such, fewer still capable of it.

by Curious Tue Jun 14, 2005 17:32

"The position not only makes sense, it was the one argued for by the workers of Dublin Airport, whom Ms Daly declined to represent on this issue. Don't remind her about it though, she's a wee bit embarassed."

Ah, don't leave it at that. Do tell.

by SP member Tue Jun 14, 2005 17:36

You are calling Matt McCormack a liar. Felix's cock and bull family medical excuse was just that, a lying ruse. He couldn't hang on for five minutes to copper fasten a vote that would have a dramatic effect on the lives of some 10,000 plus people in Rivervalley, pull the other one Justin.

The arguements you present are uncannily a verbatim carbon copy of Felix's justification the logical conclusion of which is that it is ok for developpers to attempt to appeal directly with inducements to parents and communities in order to get his own way.

As regards the point about the housing crisis, I'll take it then that SF will vote for every rezoning proposal. The excuse about "headroom" is the typical FF/FG goobledegook about critical mass being needed in the under-resourced north county towns before infrastructure can be put in place.

The other point you make basically implying that the rezoning was going to be imposed in any case so we might as well vote for it is simply not true. Even if it was it would be like voting for bin charges because of a threat to abolish the council.

by SP member Tue Jun 14, 2005 17:45

Clare's article mentions the Greens vote in Barnhill.

by honesty Tue Jun 14, 2005 18:07

read your own party produced paper for election fever justin!! an phoblacht's 2 last issues have been full of stuff about coalition government, its nice of you to be concerned but some of us don't just read indymedia for there news (i even read the kids bits in the sunday times if im feeling intellectual).

admit it justin moran sf are nearly wetting their pants at coalition government in the south. the 26 county partitionist state government well done sf, sure il drink to bobby sands wouldnt he be proud?!

more like sell out me thinks eh? or should that be its the brits fault its the brits fault they mades us like bertie ahern!!

by Anon O. Mouse Tue Jun 14, 2005 18:17

I can see your appeal to spers to use their real names has had a real impact.

by Neutral Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:53

I have just had a look at this thread and, while my knowledge of the issue is scant, it is blatantly obvious that some SP members' motivations have a great deal more to do with bitterness and specious point-scoring than any political ideal.

I remember some time ago a councillor being calumnied in a similar situation for being absent for a vote. It turned out that, despite the vituperation that some heaped upon him, the very serious personal resons he cited were verifiably true.

Bad things happen; we're human, not automatons and isn't it funny how the SP vent more fury and expend more energy attacking the Shinners than FF, FG and Labour. Shameful, pitiable and lacking in that basic human dignity which is the backbone of working class culture.

As a working person in Dublin I know that houses are badly needed and that, because our infrastructure has been so weak for decades, it will always be catching up with demand.

by SP Member Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:58

Sinn Féin should join our campaign and force the stoppage of all house building in the country until we can be sure that roads, schools, créches, patisseries, funfairs, windmills, flora and fauna, butterflies, overlooking mountains, a garda at every corner, pink postboxes, caff mochas and statues of Joe have been put in place.

by Real SP member Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:28

Let's get this straight. There were proposals for two major rezonings in Swords where there is already sufficient land zoned residential to enable housebuilding to go on for six more years at the present rate.

The two new proposed rezonings combined would have increased the Swords population dramatically. The proposals were to tag thousands of houses onto already relatively young estates that have not yet been provided with basic infrastructure.

Bear in mind in the 1940s and 1950s when this scale of house building was the domain of the local authorites places like Crumlin and Cabra which were deprived areas still had adequate school places, public transport, libraries, playing parks, playgrounds, swimming pools etc etc. The people and kids of Glen Ellen, Applewood, Castleviw, Brides Glen, Aston Broc, Boroimhe, Ridgewood, Rivervalley and so on have nothing that compares to what I have mentioned. Instead kids are sent for miles to schools and workers are left for half an hour trying to get out of the various Swords estates because they are so dependant on their cars.

The line taken by the overwhelming majority of residents in the areas affected corresponds with that of the Socialist Party who have gone door to door and held dozens of meetings on both sides of the town over the years which is that putting adequate infrastructure for the existing residents plus more infrastructure again to anticipate further population growth is a precondidtion to more residential rezonings taking place. Similarly more science and technology rezoning needs to be considered in Swords to get more workplaces set up in the town so that not everybody has to commute out of Swords to work.

Instead the people in half the estates mention above will have the problems I highlighted exacerbated thanks to FF/FG/SF and residents in the other half of Swords will have some respite for five years no thanks to SF whose counciller abandoned the meeting when the crucial vote was impending.

SF in this instance have used all the same arguements as FF/FG is justifying what they have done. The SP have devoted reams of column inches and leaflets to the role of FF/FG in Fingal over the years. We have rebuked the Labour Party and Greens when they faltered on issues like the bin charges. On this occasion we are exposing SF because they paint themselves as broadly representing the interests of ordinary residents precisely on issues such a rezonings.

Why do SF expect us to stay quite on this?

by eeekkkkk Wed Jun 15, 2005 15:20

tis like trying to read the weather

jm being back suggests someone in sf has looked at imc audience figures (on open ed lists) and worked out that sf on politics dot ire are talking to the terminally committed of all parties in a big wind tunnel.

Anyway I hope the broad agreement on official party policy towards imc on behalf of both parties (sf and sp) will not be what it was during last elexins - 'Support your own anonymous trolls on indymedia'

by veritas Wed Jun 15, 2005 15:50

If people go to the top of this thread they will quickly realise the motive behind the SP slabbering over alleged wrong-doings in Fingal. Point is that the SP are pissed off at SF muscling in on what they consider to be one of their exclusive preserves - the Aer Lingus workers!!

by SP member Wed Jun 15, 2005 17:09

The SP doesn't think in terms of "our territory" unlike your crew.

It takes more than motion on councils and hob nobbing with SIPTU officials from the Airport to make an impact on Aer Lingus workers.

by Real SP Wed Jun 15, 2005 17:15

As a member of the Real SP (formerly the Judean People's Front, formerly the People's Front of Judea), I object to Shinners thieving our clothes. Solidarity is only contingent on our micro party interests. Let's not build an alliance for radical change.

by SP member Wed Jun 15, 2005 17:24

You forget who your counciller voted with in Fingal. I'm sure Clare and Ruth would only be delighted to have Felix ally with them on future developper led rezoning proposals.

by veritas Thu Jun 16, 2005 09:48

Did the nasty shinners steal your ball?

I'm not an SF member by the way. Just amused at the manner in which a report on a DCC motion suddenly turns into a diatribe about some routine rezoning in Fingal that has damn all to do withcorruption. Are the SP afraid that some of the new residents might not vote for them?

by SP member Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:56

Well it is true that for many years the type of rezonings described above have been routine in Fingal given the way the FF/FG coalition worked. Bear in mind this is the epicentre of corruption in planning, remember Ray Burke. Sure even John Bruton disciplined a number of FG coucillors in the area, Anne Devitt, MJ Cosgrove and Cathal Boland over the stink of corrupt votes.

However there was an expectation that the new arithmatic in the council chamber post the local elections last year would see a qualtative change in the way planning decisions would be made. In actual fact the FF/FG/Gannon/Baily cabal didn't get it all their own way on this occasion but SF crossed the floor on a MAJOR controversial proposal in Glen Ellen and absented themselves on the Rivervalley vote.

It stinks, and no amount of smartarsery from Veritas can change that.

by veritas Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:02

A Councillor misses a vote for genuine reasons and it becomes another conspiracy theory. Seem to remember the same crap being spread about Dessie Ellis regarding a vote he missed on DCC on the bins, where he also had a situation that made it impossible for him to attend ONE vote.

Just as well no-one checks up on Higgin's attendence in Leinster House because virtually the only time he is there or contributes is on Leaders Questions where a motley band that includes such well-known socialists as Harkin, Lowrey, Connolly, etc give him the time to speak on behalf of the Independents.

by veritas Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:04

Not to mention Murphy's missing vital votes on the waste charges on SDCC.....

by SP member Thu Jun 16, 2005 15:16

Read the Dail coverage in the Irish Times today. It seems to me Joe Higgins uses the Dail far more effectively than any of the SF TDs.

By the way you refer to the technical group as if there was some sort of compramise in principles at stake.

However you forget that SF were initially also going to particpate in the technical group at a certain stage because the old arrangement in the Dail stipulated 7 TDs as the minimum for a group to constitute a party with speakers rights etc. The regulations were then softened to accomodate SF and the Greens who just feel short of the 7. Had that not happened SF would also be part of the technical group with Lowery etc.

In terms of the bin charge vote in DCC. How was it that the SP through its paper was able to anticpate the vote would work out ie that each party would play a role in insuring the vote was passed? Anyway the vote in Sligo and the remarks of people like Mark Daly in Tallaght demonstrate that SF and their sympathisers like Vertias are better off keeping quite regarding the bin charges

There is also a vast difference in Mick Murphy being late for a meeting and Felix voting FOR a controversial rezoning and absenting himself when another one was about to take place on spurious grounds. Do you doubt that Mick would have voted against the estimates because after Felix's late change of heart on the Glen Ellen vote SP wasn't 100% sure about how he was going to vote on the Rivervalley motion.

Your attempt to muddy the issues is pathetic Veritas. While any amount of smart arsery or "same old same old" can give you the last word on this thread people will not see a comprehensive response to the issues raised by Clare Daly in her article.

by veritas Thu Jun 16, 2005 15:40

SF and the Greens are part of the Technical Group so the rules were not "softened" to accomdate them (gosh another conspiracy theory gone)

Higgins is a member of the Technical Group but as part of the Independnets and is allowed take Leaders Questions every time that group has it with the support of all of the other independnets; Lowry, Connolly, Harkin etc.

I agree that he is a "good turn" and he gets media coverage because the SP are no more a threat to the establishment than Lowry or Harkin, and he's always good for a laugh.

As for Murphy, he was elected on the sole basis of opposing the bin charges and slandering SF and Labour and then misses the vital meetings on the issue!! If he was a Green or shinner or Labour the SP would be concocting all sorts of bizarre conspiracy theories around his absence. Myself, I just reckon it was incompetence or disinterest. No doubt he will have another "issue" to run on next time around.

by veritas Thu Jun 16, 2005 15:47

Oh, and the SP being able to predict what way people were going to vote!! What crap. You should set up a psychic chat line. Oh but then I am forgetting the great clairvonacy record of trotskyites over the years: "great events, fascism within a year, the Pakistani revolution, Militant taking power in Britian in the 1990s", etc, etc all the way back to Saint Leon.

by In Vino Thu Jun 16, 2005 16:11

Indeed, Harkin and Lowry have been using their Dail seats to highlight the exploitation of migrant workers and the ineptitude of the SIPTU bureaucracy, just like Higgins ... honestly, do you expect anyone to take this half-baked rubbish seriously? I'm not an SP member (REALLY) and I'd often be critical of them, but your comments are just drivel. I don't know the details of this dispute, but if you have to resort to those kind of tactics, I'd be inclined to trust the SP's version of events over the Provo one anyday.

by SP Thu Jun 16, 2005 16:15

You go on about Joe's attendance in the Dáil and then qualify your "praise" for his performance by insinuating that it has no effect. Try telling that to the GAMA workers!

I may stand corrected on the technical group situation but the point I make stands that you try to infer something by Joe's invovlement in it.

You refer to Mick slandering the Labour Party and SF. No slander was involved in us pointing out Labour's opposition to non payment and then voting in estimates that included bin charges despite an earlier promise to abolish them through a council vote.

No slander was involved when we picked up on Mark Daly's utterances about paying the charges.

No clairvoyancy was involved in the SP reported on sources that anticipated a sitution being engineered in the council were each of the parties would contribute in some way to the estimates being passed. The article appeared before the event.

by seedot Thu Jun 16, 2005 16:40

had thought jm had gone on to bigger and better things eeekks - surely one of the mini-chucks that dominate p.ie would have been sent over?

even with the 1m page views and 50k + viewers we get each month a rising star like mr. moran must have something better to be doing. maybe he just turns up to remind us all how much better indy used to be when he was around ;-). It sure isn't to contribute anything worthwhile.

as for the sp / sf flames - for two groups who supposedly only see elections as one aspect of their political activity they seem to colour everything they do.

by Mark P - Socialist Party (personal cap) Thu Jun 16, 2005 17:13

I've been avoiding this dreadful thread because frankly this kind of stuff bores me.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for Sinn Fein members to post articles about their councillors' work. Equally it's perfectly reasonable for others to point out the less attractive side of Sinn Fein's record on various Councils - rezoning, bin tax and so on. 30 or 40 further posts repeating the same points and rehearsing discussions which have gone on here a thousand times before? That I can do without.

A slightly childish urge to get the last word seems to effect many Indymedia posters of all political persuasions. In fact it's normally more effective to make your point, answer any legitimate questions and move on.

One issue which I do want to address here is one that seedot raises about elections. I'm honestly baffled by the idea that anyone could really believe that elections colour every aspect of the Socialist Party's work. We take part in elections and take them as seriously as any other part of our activity. But they are just that, a part of our activity. Take the last few months as an example. The main issue which the Socialist Party has been involved in is that of the exploitation of immigrant workers. That's been our primary focus almost to the exclusion of many other things we would like to be involved in. I think that the effectiveness of our approach to the issue isn't in doubt - but it's hardly the kind of political approach we would take if elections were our main concern.

by Socialist Thu Jun 16, 2005 17:51

Justin is a bit of a Indymedia angel - politics.ie devil and he does his own version of the psychic chat line.

Posted: 14 Jun 2005 10:38 Post subject: Dublin West Predictions

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I sank a couple of pints over the weekend with an old friend and former journalist now a community worker in the Dublin West area and in the course of the conversation he asked me my opinion of how the election would go in that consituency, to which I responded, 'Lenihan and Higgins definite and Burton fighting for the third with FG'.

His analysis was somewhat different, and might be of interest. He sees two safe seats alright, but not the ones I named. Lenihan is safe, and so is Varadkar. While I spluttered into my pint he pointed out that from an FG point of view there are two great things about Varadkar. Firstly, he's an excellent candidate. Hard-working, articulate, media-friendly, politically minded and ambitious. Fair enough I admitted, and his other attractive characteristic? Seemingly he's richer than the entire German Nazi Party. Now I'd heard he spent more than any other Dublin candidate in the Locals to get in but by all accounts he is continuing to spend a fortune, especially on massive direct mail-outs. And by massive, my source indicated bin-bag massive. Add it all up with his vote in 2004 and he's a lock according to my chap.

But what about Higgins? Well while he is more likely to get in than not my chap believed, his vote will be down. The GAMA issue is being thrown in his face at meetings (One resident suggested that if he wanted to get elected again he should run in Turkey) rather than being a vote-winner. Taking a principled stand not working for him. There's also a perception that he's not interested or even necessarily aware of the amount of anti-social behaviour in the area and certainly not active on the issue. And he's not delivered for the area in terms of investment or State support and so on. While he has an excellent constituency operator in Ruth Coppinger, he's weakening himself. Should still hold his seat but won't break 20% of the vote again.

As for Joan Burton? Gone, my source confirmed with the satisfaction that only a former member of the Workers Party can summon up. In fact he claimed there is a very real possibility of her being outpolled on first preferences by Felix Gallagher, the Sinn Féin candidate, pointing out that Burton was only 1,400 votes ahead of Mary Lou in 2002 and the Local results weren't exactly a big boost for her. With Varadkar hoovering up votes in Castleknock, a strong SF candidate in Mulhuddart and Higgins still swinging, she's as good as disappeared.

At which point I called for pints to celebrate.

I'll be honest, Dublin West is not a constituency I know a whole lot about, but my drinking companion has lived and worked there for years. I find the notion that Varadkar is THAT certain to get elected a bit surprising and the notion that we'll overtake Labour in the constituency hard to believe even though the numbers make an interesting argument for it.

Comments?
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And as the temperature rises:
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Posted: 16 Jun 2005 15:36 Post subject: Trotsky's Ice-Pick for Sale

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According to today's Guardian the ice-pick used to kill Leon Trotsky might be coming on the market soon after its existence was revealed by the daughter of a former secret service agent.

We've already started a fund in the Dublin Sinn Féin office to raise the money and was wondering if people wanted to chip in for a politics.ie fund?

I'm in for 10 Euros.

by Lev Davidovich Thu Jun 16, 2005 19:43

Maybe the SP should buy a few old shit-stained rags from Long Kesh and have a bonfire at the next demo. Just for the laugh, like, Justin - nothing wrong with mocking veneration of dead revolutionaries, now is there?

by seedot Thu Jun 16, 2005 23:18

just to clarify mark -I was only thinking of the behaviour of some of your comrades on here when they have a go at SF / labour / whoever. It seems driven not by honest disagreement over policies or tactics but rather the competitive positioning that colours electorally focussed parties. I would have a lot of criticisms of the socialist party but would be happy to admit that the grown up members in the real world will focus on activities and issues outside elections. it's just your online presence that shows such a petty, sectarian face.

by Barry Fri Jun 17, 2005 02:24

knows no bounds and is without the slightest hint of corruption

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3623008.stm

there was no case to answer in short strand and how dare anyone accuse sinn fein again this time .

by seedot Fri Jun 17, 2005 02:46

Maybe Eoin could explain this bit of the article:

"Mr O'Broin said people should accept his colleague's explanation that he was trying to solve a local housing shortage and intended to donate the houses to a local housing association."

Whats the housing association? Would this have been a donation of the land or would Mr O'Donnell have built the houses and then handed them over? Thats quite a generous donation - is this the new caring sharing SF - private charity to go with private schools?

Justin - will you give Eoin a shout and get him to pop along here. He did such an able job taking over from you last time.

by D15er Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:22

"There's also a perception that he's not interested or even necessarily aware of the amount of anti-social behaviour in the area and certainly not active on the issue."

Joseph Rafferty was shot and murdered in Joe's constituency, care to comment on the anti-social nature of that Justin?

by Chekov Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:01

"There's also a perception that he's not interested or even necessarily aware of the amount of anti-social behaviour in the area and certainly not active on the issue"

I love this line - the use of the passive voice, the projection of the opinion onto an anonymous commentator, all so innocent. The fact that actively creating this 'perception' is SF's principal electoral strategy for fighting Higgins is nicely omitted.

by P O'Neill Fri Jun 17, 2005 13:09

Chekov, that post was put up to attack SF not the SP. Irrelevant little bickering between SP and SF does nothing for the local residents, nor does attempting to forecast election results.

by Socialist Fri Jun 17, 2005 13:41

WTF are you talking about?
Which post was put up to attack SF?
The sentence quoted by both D15er and Chekov was made by a Shinner and not only that one who is based in the Dublin office i.e Justin.
Looks like you have difficulty spinning you way out of a paper bag.
While you are there in P, in relation to the question posed by D15er do you consider the murder of Joseph Rafferty to be an act of anti-social behaviour?

by P O'Neill Fri Jun 17, 2005 14:18

Are you trying to imply that I had something to do with that murder?

What other individual in the SF Dublin office said that?
Publish their name. Do you even know how many people work in the SF Dublin office?

Do you consider the treatment of Michael Gallagher, Joan Collins and Dermot Connolly to be the opposite of anti sociable?

How about the SP's head honcho up north and his informing to the police of certain leaders of direct action in QUB?
But I suppose it's alright they're only workers in uniform isn't that right?

by Socialist Fri Jun 17, 2005 16:18

"Are you trying to imply that I had something to do with that murder?"

I don't know, who are you? I am sure the murderer(s) is/are well known to 'P O'Neill'.

"What other individual in the SF Dublin office said that?
Publish their name. Do you even know how many people work in the SF Dublin office?"

For quite some time now, SF members have tried to imply that Joe does nothing and doesn't care about anti-social behaviour in Dublin West and Justin backs up that line in his 'psychic chat line' . If you have the time trawl the archives here to see more than one member of SF follow that line.

"Do you consider the treatment of Michael Gallagher, Joan Collins and Dermot Connolly to be the opposite of anti sociable?"

They made their own choices.

"How about the SP's head honcho up north and his informing to the police of certain leaders of direct action in QUB?
But I suppose it's alright they're only workers in uniform isn't that right?"

Rubbish. I suppose he ate their hamster as well.

by suspect Fri Jun 17, 2005 16:51

to one of the latest issues of community voice, local paper in D!5 a recent murder is being blamed by the cops on the IRA, the family of the deceased is also blaming the IRA. Whether it turns out to be black propaganda or a new case we'll have to see

by P O'Neill Fri Jun 17, 2005 16:57

Your talking absolute rubbish, about other SF'rs. Get a grip, your party is too irrelevant. You can't name name's because they don't exist.

As for Gallagher and co. they did not decide to have their characters assasinated by your members. Your members went on the usual Trot rampage of vilifying people after they leave the Cult.

Your head honcho up North did do that. I believe it has already been covered here. It was when activists occupied admin in Queen's. I'll contact the activist in question and get him to post details here, again. Your northern "leader" informs on other activists.

As for your ludicrous suggestion that I know something about Joe Raferty's murder stop spouting bullshit. If you know something go to the police, your northern "leader" has already set the precedence.

by Socialist Fri Jun 17, 2005 17:05

Can you not spot the difference between 'P O'Neill' and P O'Neill.

You know as well as I do that 'P O'Neill' knows who killed Joe Rafferty.

by P O'Neill Fri Jun 17, 2005 17:14

by calling myself p on'eill i see myself as the spokesperson for the Irish Republican Army, I am not a bar stool republican either and I'm definitely not wearing a celtic jersey and singing the fields of Athenry right now. PS, brits out of fingal

by Tom Joad - none Fri Jun 17, 2005 17:16

"As for your ludicrous suggestion that I know something about Joe Raferty's murder stop spouting bullshit. If you know something go to the police..............." - P O'Neill


Would P O'Neill offer the same advice to his own "comrades" who brutally murdered Robert McCarthy. Methinks not. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.... north and south

by Tom Joad Fri Jun 17, 2005 17:24

Since the complete insignificance of the SP has been stressed and restressed time and time again, mainly by SF members, I think we are all quite clear that the SP participating in any type of a coalition is ruled out. Without starting a whole other debate, I would like to ask a hypothetical question. If Sinn Fein did decide to enter a coalition with Fianna Fail, would they re-nationalise aer lingus

by Inner City Stick Fri Jun 17, 2005 18:20

Regarding the Joe Raftery issue it actually has its origins in the South East Inner City, and not in Joe Higgins' area even though that's what one of the posters on this site says. So I don't know what Joe would have to do with it.

A news-sheet in Dublin 15 claimed the IRA did it and everyone automatically assumes it to be true because the cops told the papers and we all know the cops don't lie when it comes to republicans, just anti-war activists.

The family, and I know a member of it personally, do not believe Sinn Féin or the IRA were involved but do believe supporters, not members, of both organisations were involved. The row has its origins in a feud in an inner city flat complex between two families who live within sight of each other. The names of those suspected of involvement are very well known in the south inner city and the cops lifted both of them but haven't charged them.

Sinn Féin have put a leaflet out around the flats urging people to go to the cops and I know Daithí Doolan has met with the family and the cops on the issue.

I have no idea what it's doing on a thread dealing with whether the Socialist Party or Féin are the real revolutionaries.

by pele Fri Jun 17, 2005 18:23

.

by Socialist Fri Jun 17, 2005 18:30

"Regarding the Joe Raftery issue it actually has its origins in the South East Inner City, and not in Joe Higgins' area even though that's what one of the posters on this site says. So I don't know what Joe would have to do with it."

According to the SF posters Joe is responsible for EVERY bit of anti-social behaviour in his constituency. This murder happened there.

"The family, and I know a member of it personally, do not believe Sinn Féin or the IRA were involved but do believe supporters, not members, of both organisations were involved."

Very McCartneyesque.

Refreshing all the same to see a stick vouch for the provo's.

by joey Fri Jun 17, 2005 18:49

it started when a sinn fein supporter said the sp don't care about anti social behaviour in d15, which would be strange as so many of them live there. The puppys replied by reminding our republican friend, some of their party are responsible (allegedly) for this very anti social behaviour!

by The Socialist - Issue 6 - May 2005 Fri Jun 17, 2005 21:40

By Cllr. Clare Daly

In January of this year, communities in Swords and Dublin 15 were celebrating the success of Socialist Party motions, that secured a green belt zoning on hundreds of acres of land, which had been targeted for residential development.

Of all the Dublin councils, Fingal has experienced the most growth, with the majority of that concentrated in the above areas.

Residents face daily gridlock, inadequate public transport, a schools' crisis and total dearth of facilities. The failure of the government to implement the Kenny Report on the control of the price of building land has fuelled massive speculation and profiteering. This has led to the phenomenal price of housing, and failure to deliver the necessary infrastructure to support the scale of development has resulted in residents paying on the double for this crisis.

At the end of May, the Development Plan changes had to be ratified by the Councillors. With decisions making a difference of millions to developers and landowners, the lobbying was intense to get some of the decisions overturned. The new brown envelope of "community gain" was introduced whereby the lack of schools and facilities were used by the developers to offer land for community purposes in return for getting thousands of houses. This is simply a more sophisticated version of interference in the planning process.

But for the first time, last year's local elections had broken the rezoning alliance of the right-wing parties which had dominated Fingal since its inception. The Socialist Party, Labour, the Greens and Sinn Fein, all of whom contested the elections on an anti-developer, pro-community platform, had a majority, and a real opportunity was posed to secure proper planning that took account of infrastructure.

However in a disgusting move, Sinn Fein sided with Fianna Fail and Fine Gael to overturn the decision for 140 acres in Swords and restore the residential zonings. Their Councillor did not participate in any of the discussions during the months of meetings on this plan and yet it was with that one vote that all the campaigning of the community was betrayed.

In Barnhill in Dublin 15, it was the absence of Sinn Fein and a U-turn by the Greens which saw a similar green belt zoning overturned.

These parties claim to represent the interests of ordinary people. They have betrayed the communities which elected them and ensured that the developers are laughing all the way to the bank. And these parties claim to be the radical alternative!

by D15er Mon Jul 11, 2005 16:53

Which family member do you know?

11 July 2005 14:54
The sister of murdered Dublin man Joseph Rafferty has said the people who killed her brother belong to Sinn Féin and the IRA.

Esther Rafferty told RTÉ Radio One's News At One programme that she contacted a Sinn Féin councillor prior to her brother's death, spelling out her fears for his life.

However, she said the response was dismissive.

The chairman for Sinn Féin Dublin later told RTÉ News the murderers were not members of the Sinn Féin organisation.