how the basques voted & "not voted"

by ezkerra Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:23

First of all the combined vote of parties that favour a move towards greater self-determination and possibly independence is over 50% but by no means an overwhelming majority.

Second, the percentage of Basques who believe armed struggle is justified is at most 12%, the vote recieved by EHAK, and it should not be taken for granted that all those support armed struggle.

My own take on this is that hopefully it will decouple the struggle for self-determination from terrorism ( and lets not forget the Spanish State engaged in terrorism as well as ETA, ie targeting and killing civilians) and allow the Basque people as a whole to decide their future, free from intimidation from either armed groups or state repression.

by - Mon Apr 18, 2005 13:35

in english translation from Spanish press-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4455361.stm

and from Basque TV-
http://www.eitb24.com/noticia_en.php?id=53944

by Iñaki Mon Apr 18, 2005 19:59 ziberzum at hotmail dot com

Just a comment:

ETA do NOT target civilians.In the few cases it happened ,the owners of Buidings (Or what ever) were advised hours before and they rejecteted to say any thing" to not spread panic"...Please.

As Northern Ireland with imperial England
.Franco was very eager and succesfull in bringuing inmigrants from
south-center Spain to Euskadi and Catalonia During 40 years for as heavier "Spanization" as possible.

So,still, A LOT of the voters in both countries are of the above (and their sons),
Spaniards

by Ezkerra Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:44

I dont want to get into a simplistic blame game but the facts are very clear: both ETA and the Spanish State have targeted and killed civilians in the past, although the level of violence has receeded in recent years. ETA has killed journalists and politicians, simply because they opposed ETA's aims or criticised ETA. This fact can be checked on Amnesty Internationals website, just print ETA in the search section.

Pretending that ETA have done no wrong only helps the unionists who tar all the Basques with a 'terrorist' brush and try to link the right of the Basque people to self-determination with 'terrorism'. Its the reverse image of the right-wingers who claim that the Spanish State from the highest level had nothing to do with GAL.

by thinkthanker Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:46

31 seats have gone to parties which call for economic and social policies on the left of the spectrum.
44 seats have gone to those of the centre and the right.
Leaving out "nationalism" and attitudes to "national questions" the electorate swung to the left.
Of those 31 seats, 13 are in what Irish people would understand as the "post-marxist/marxist left".
Now whereas they disagree on questions of culture, constitutional visions of state, they do agree on other important areas "in principle". Taken with the fact that abstention increased from a 21% average to 31% average, this is a sign of "unhappiness" with the economic and social effects of centre right and right wing government.
In the european model of political engagement, when "the left" is divided amongst itself so, on questions of "nationalism", there is always a risk of "going completely round the circle" (remembering that the left - right analogy is a poor one at best) and other localised concepts of social order emerge if a political solution is not forthcoming.
I refer to what the spanish would understand as the "proto falangist belief pattern", and the austrians would understand as the "neo-fascism of Haider", and older bavarians would have understood as "early nazi-ism".
This is the line we can not afford to cross in european political development. It is a line we will cross, if the parties of the right present xenophobic arguments to the less well-off in an attempt to win votes, if the parties of the centre favour authoritarian government and blind obeyance of laws which are unjust and if the parties of the left can't confidently present solutions to globalisation at the local level. It only takes a few more "weighty" characters on the chessboard at the "proto-falangist/ neo-fascist" side (suggesting non-syndicalist models of social assistance and authoritarian social values by promoting active opposition to democratically elected states) to tip the general social debate in that direction for the generation who yet don't have a vote and are happily toddling around at the moment worrying about their next plate of "papa".
Indeed the basque above who referred to the migration patterns in the peninsula of the 1950s- 1960s will remember that housing projects that concentrated those communities together and gave them a sense of loyalty to the state which they still carry. It is comparable to those communities who were re-located after WW2 in the larger european cities (such as London and the Nederlands) from the blitzed centres to the outskirts, re-housed, and still to this day voting on "exagerated nationalist / racist lines".
Unfortuanately because of more than forty years of sloppy use of language and political terminology, we are not properly prepared to name that particular "shift" for what it is. We've used up the words in un-thinking terms of abuse.

Which is the most worrying effect of all as seen on a pan-european basis, not just in the Basque, or Austria or the new member-states of the East.
For that at least, hopefully the parties in the Basque will move to political progress and solutions on non-partisan grounds in dealing with (as best they can in a globalised world) the problems facing their poor and their youngest.

I'll explore this further in the future, in a "sunday papers" article maybe next weekend, in the special "passover papyrus review edition". Hope the comment is welcome for the moment though.

by mms Tue Apr 19, 2005 18:41

it would be great to copy the article as well here or send me the link to read it! A Basque living in Ireland

by Iñaki Wed Apr 20, 2005 05:24

If you believe blindly Every Thig Amnesty International says.

Quite a Attacks from ETA has been lead it know in advance .To avoid killing inocent
people.
The "Knowers" said nothing, so the more the civilian victims, the worst propaganda against ETA.

Of course there has been a small % of civilians victims but they were NOT the target.

by Ezkerra Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:16

This sort of thing smacks of fanatical football supporters who never admit their 'team' do any wrong!

I have no wish to lump all the blame or even the primary responsibility for violence on ETA, but facts are facts. Even if we exclude the 'colateral damage' victims who were allegedly killed when state forces failed to publicise advance warning, we are still left with civilian victims deliberately threatened, targeted or killed by ETA. These include journalists who have been critical of the organisation and local politicians who opposed ETA. If you persist in denying this I will quote chapter and verse.

Now the fact that some of these belonged to the PP or were opposed to self-determination does not give ETA the right to kill them, no more than I have the right to kill my local Fianna Fail councillor because he is a corrupt right wing hack.

Again, I repeat, I support the right of the Basque people to self-determination, I believe that those Spanish politicians who conducted a campaign of terror (through GAL) against Basque nationalists should be tried and punished but I do no support acts of terror against civilians anywhere, by anybody.

by Iñaki Thu Apr 21, 2005 06:45

Is deeper than that. PERIOD

by Ezkerra Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:45

In my book killing civilians, regardless of who does the killing, is always wrong. Period.

by kaixo! Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:47

the PP have decided to break their co-operation with the PSOE in the central Madrid parliament on the "anti-terrorist pact". In a very heated exchange in which one young PSOE deputy saw his chair broken, and called an opposing PP deputy a fascist (for which he had to apologise you can only legally call PP deputies fascists on the street, in print or internet).
The PP are calling for the illegalisation of EHAK, before their new members get examined by the police and the megaphone is shared. THeir basis for this is the idea that 160,000 people don't vote for little commie parties, and the Lehandakari's first phone call was to the leader of the illegalised ETA political wing, and not to the leader of the little commie party.

Pressie ZP has reminded everyone that it's his job to run the anti-terrorist apparata of the state, and the Lehendakari (in functions) still looks to form a government and has said this is "his generation's last chance for peace".

by :-) Fri May 06, 2005 12:02

The results of the election left no clear winners. However the PSOE in the basque have yesterday confirmed their intent to lead the government coalition.
Thus depriving the acting lehandakari Juan José Ibarretxe of his job, and replacing him with their leader Patxi López. This means they have now opened formal discussion with all other parties.
The last weeks have seen the PNV talk to everyone else (except the PP) including the PHAK and the leadership of Batasuna who technically aren't in the parliament. It is now to be seen will PSE (PSOE in the Basque) also hold talks with EHAK and Batasuna.
Accordingly today the acting lehendakari went to Madrid to the Moncloa palace to meet Bambi himself pressie ZP.
http://www.lavanguardia.es/web/20050506/51183488534.html

Meanwhile, opinion polls in both the basque and spain indicate that telly viewers and newspaper readers are happy that peace stands more of a chance at the moment than before, and that there is less confrontation. They have also confirmed that they often skip through channels, and very rarely read the tv listings before hand planning in advance their night's viewing. They have also confirmed that they mostly think there are too many adverts on TV but not enough blockbuster movies.

by iosaf Wed Jun 22, 2005 18:00

The parliament of the Basque region has debated today and is debating its Lehendakari for the next governmental period after the elections which took place April 17th 2005 [see article above]

In alphabetical order the two candidates are:
Juan José Ibarretxe or Patxi López.
Ibarretxe is lehendakari (taoiseach) in functions and leads the PNV, EA, EB formation.
Patxi López is the leader of the PSE-EE (psoe in basque) formation.

They have each spoken for 90 minutes.

Ibarratexe plans a table of political normalisation without exception. (he might get the 2 votes he needs from EHAK and there have been protests against his acceptance of that) he has called for the localisation of prisoners and an end to ETA violence.
http://www.estrelladigital.es/articulo.asp?sec=esp&name=ibarretxe&fech=22/06/2005

López has asked to be the lehendakari who brings peace to Euskadi and has said he will bring a consensual "statute" [of constitutional reform] before a referendum [citizen consultation] in his first year he has also called for an end to ETA violence.
http://www.estrelladigital.es/articulo.asp?sec=esp&name=lopez&fech=22/06/2005

When the results are through there will be an update. Though shot in 2003, [during the Aznar PP regime] the independent film documentary "Pelota vasca. La piel contra la piedra" / "Euskal pilota. Larrua harriaren kontra" / "The Basque Ball: Skin Against Stone" is a "must see for anyone who wishes to see most of the debate, and the will for political normalisation.

The debates heard, we can not forget that the results of the elections were inconclusive. As many support either candidate, and thus is the need for concensus and consensuality expressed in democratic institutional form so that it may be normalised, for that is the responsibility of the political process and all political representatives.
It thus does not surprise me, or ought ye, that the deciding "wee vote" goes to Aintzane Ezenarro the only deputy of the Aralar party, founded by former members of ETA at its earlier stage, the pro-independence party [concentrated in one province bordering navarre] condemns consistently the violence of both sides and ETA in particular.

"normality" & the political process

by not waffling Thu Jun 23, 2005 15:46

He begins his next government with well wishes that peace and normality satisfy the need within the Basque people for change.
Bake = Paz = Paix = Peace
Comprehensive coverage of the horse-trading votes yesterday and today at link from basque news service berria on their english translation pages. Looking to the future!