The Roman Pontiff John Paul 2 has died

by Darragh Sun Apr 03, 2005 00:47

Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

by barry Sun Apr 03, 2005 04:15

an end to a truly remarkable papal career and a truly remarkable man. He broke the mould.
RIP

by Badman Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:08

Good.

by Devil Dog Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:13

How was he a hypocrite?

Don't have much time for the CC but his role in the downfall of the Eastern European Workers Paradises is to be commended.

by Order of Saint Martin de Porres Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:48

The pope was certainly no saint, or mother Theresa. Good riddance to bad rubbish

by Mother Theresa a real saint Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:55

Only those who die in love, service and exaltation of the Poor, shall taste immortality, alive always in the memory of the slaves and poor they adored.

It is a living miracle to see the poor exalted, to see the starving fed, child beggars uplifted, schooled, confident and clothed.

by remembering being a kid in dublin in 1979 in the park - with all the neighbours, C of I, jewish, the whole lot. Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:30

The XX century into which Karol Wotyla was born and through which he lived, saw the gravest threats of a millenium to the moral and ethical basis of human society. The twin darknesses of utopian materialist empires of Nazi-ism and the Soviet system brought genocide and experimentation and as of yet unknown ecological damage to the planet. The role played by Pope John Paul 2 in the collapse of the soviet system will be the subject of many books to come. The role he played in reaching out to the religious traditions of the books, of the talmud and koran was historic yet one which divided the conservatives and liberals of the Vatican on questions of orthodoxy.

If there are challenges for the XXI century for the Vatican and the RC church and all those of other denomimations or traditions who were touched and effected by this man, then surely amongst them must be the recognition that the solely material based utopian "state tyrannies" of Stalin are now "dealt with".
Also too, That the authoritarian "fascist" dictatorships that fellow travelled with Nazi-ism throughout the "RC world" and some might think were a dialectic response to stalinism are now on the wane and "dealt with".

But there is a new materialist utopic based evil, with a global reach and the potential to undermine the core constantine belief systems common to the RC and fellow apostolic churches and the traditions of the Talmud and Koran and the libertarian tradition of Equality, Fraternity, Liberty and the Rights of Mankind, and that is "unfettered and blatently unequal globalised capitalism".

The problems of the XXI century will all be based on the struggle against the evil which emerged "dialectically" in opposition to both Stalinism and Nazi-ism (in all their forms). The challenge of the XXI century is to return to the light, from the darkness of the XX century, in which we were all born, by which almost all of us, had our world and social visions shaped.

The new cult of science and equity - driven by profit and protected by lies which now threatens to enslave or make waste the majority of the planet and to afford a tiny minority a life of pleasure.

Yesterday I saw thousands of people walk and demand the right not to be locked up indefinitely either in where we walked or where they had been born for the simple act of crossing a frontier.
I was so touched by one african who carried a poster "Pope John Paul live long, I hope you live long I am an economic slave". I spoke to this man, and he explained that even if he wanted he can not return to his country, he earns no more than 40euros a week, his only option to return is to be deported. But if he is deported, before he will be interned, and he has no idea for how long, and he has no idea where he would be interned, "where we walked" or "over a distant hill out of sight", or somewhere else "even further out of mind".

We have had a pope who made history by reaching out to the world. Who spoke for the first time in hundreds of cities in hundreds of languages on many issues of faith and hope that we all in some way share, and some which we don't. But he was a lucid constant. May we have a pope who does likewise, who speaks in many languages and voices the truth -
.:. That we are all created equally .:.
Such a pope in fighting slavery, would make history.

Like many, I saw the Pope John Paul 2.
His parting is historic. But his message was so very human, and his understanding of his role and future legacy was more wise than many will ever guess. I don't really think you're suppose to wholeheartedly agree with everything a pope says, if you do, then you get a red silk dress, and a "top obedience" star on your ledger and come off seeming mostly hypocritical.

But He was a lucid constant.
.:. Lucem Gentum +
+May he rest in peace.:.

psalm 23.

by John Magee, Poisonmaker. Sun Apr 03, 2005 13:33

I keep hearing about the twin evils of Nazism and Communism that JP2 'resisted ' in Poland but consider this:

(1) No evidence exists to suggest he objected to Nazism or that he took part in any form of resistance though The Nazis carried out genocide against the Jews, trade-unionists, gays and gypsies in Poland.

(2) The Communist Party of post war Poland did not have concentraion camps and most certainly did not murder or torture sections of its population but the Pope openly campained against the regime and supported the already well supported CIA backed Solidarnosc movement. Contrast his ostrascisation of Archbishop Oscar Romero and Father Miguel D'escoto of the Sandinistas , who resisted real state terror.

by Devil Dog Sun Apr 03, 2005 13:40

Some nostalgic reminiscing about the good old days when Eastern Europeans lived as slaves under communism...

by John Magee, Poison Maker Sun Apr 03, 2005 13:50

Great to see that Poles are no longer slaves under Communism and have to come to Ireland to work for €3 an hour. Freedom me arse.

by Badman Sun Apr 03, 2005 14:12

big palace. camels, eyes of needles. Nuff said.

by Not John Magee Sun Apr 03, 2005 15:49

Wow, an actual Commie apologist, still alive and well in 2005. Could you please do me a favour? Embalm yourself and post youself to me - I could sell you on Ebay for thousands.

So JP didn't oppose the Nazis? Lemme see, how does 'being in the Polish army in 1939' rank in the list of anti-Nazi things to do around that time?

As for the Commies, you seem to want to congratulate them for not having concentration camps. You seem to miss the point that the fact that they were dictators impovishering the country and holding back its economic progress for decades is bad enough.

by Barry Sun Apr 03, 2005 17:30

The mans not dead 24 hrs and already the sickos have crawled out of the woodwork. Whatever his failings might have been , he was a remarkable man who was deeply loved and respected throughout the world.

If Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez can mourn his passing thats good enough for me.

Im actually disgusted by some of the posts here.

by John Magee, Poison Maker Sun Apr 03, 2005 17:42

If you want sickos look no further than the Vatican. Black soutaned child rapists and nazi war criminals were suitably assisted to escape Justice when Justice called.

by devils advocate Mon Apr 04, 2005 01:02

The deep evil he brought with him has now been permanently installed at the heart of Roman Catholicism. I think he took such a long time to die because he knew that the place he was going was far worse than the place he was at. He was truly a piece of shit. The only good thing I can think to say about him is that the thug who replaces him will almost certainly be worse.

by Anonymous Mon Apr 04, 2005 03:36

"Traditions of the Talmud"? Good? Have you ever read the Talmud?

by literate Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:44

I have read the talmud and the koran, also the synoptic and apocryphal christian texts, the works of augustine & aquinus, aristotle & plato, euclid & pythagoras, shakespeare & cervantes, goethe & schiller, ronsard & teillhard du chardin, virgil & homer, seneca & aesop, joyce & blake, swift & yeats. I have also seen the book of mormon and other heretical texts and regularly used a telephone book and read all the frankfurt marxist schools (both of 'em) and even found the time to read marcus & wu ming.

& what's more I've read 'em in original (but in the case of the talmud its been a bit of a transliteration word by word, letter by letter affair, and the koran was in translation) .

The Roman Pontiff is now lying in state in the Clementine Hall. The preparations for his funeral are underway.

Thereafter the cardinal electors will assemble in the Sistine (&Palatine) Chapel, the walls and ceilings of which were painted by Michelangelo and depict the core scenes of the Talmud and Synoptic Gospels. Such as the creation, (the most famous) the expulsion from Eden, the birth of the Christ, the presentation in the Temple of the Christ et cetera. The central roof panels also include depictions of various other non-identified characters. There the cardinal electors will remain till they elect the next pontiff. During which time the Swiss Guards carry the responsibility for sealing the Vatican state.


Its a very special place, but because these are also very special times an extra special effort is going to be made by the Swiss Guards to sweep the Vatican state and seal the Sistine / Palatine chapel so that no-one breaches the code with intrusive surveillance or attempts to hinder or influence the election in any way electronic or otherwise.


The late Pope, JP2 was also a prolific author and through his papacy issued many titles aimed at explaining the message of his spirituality. His last book was presented earlier this year, the product of several conversations he had with a prominent philosopher on the questions of materialism versus spiritual existence, in which he argued that most of the wrongs suffered in the planet of injustice, war, exploitation, slavery, inequality et cetera, found their roots in the european "enlightenment". Its certainly worth a thought that Chinese state communism, Californian biotech capitalism, Syrian Baathism, Korean fashion designer cloning, and even WMD all share common roots in western social and scientific thought.

But to pretend that all wrongs today found their roots there alone, is to ignore the true history of intolerance and absolutism which brought about the toast upon which the cheese does not move.

Rest in Peace JP2 you were Great.

by hildegard von bingen Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:33

though the death of the Pope was reported by electronic means (the Holy See employs its own postal service, telephone exchange, internet servers, and little dishies, email and fax and all the usual "tecky tack"), the decision has been made to switch off all electronic devices during the conclave.
There will be no mobile phones, no faxes, no emails into or out of the Vatican City.

The internet portal of the Vatican now mounts the seal of the of the Holy See which has replaced the seal used by John Paul 2. The person resonsible for Vatican internet communication interestingly is a woman, one of the few nuns to hold key offices, her name is Sister Judith.

The ripple of "spirituality" and deference to the effect this man's life had on the world continues to take effect. Some give the opinion that the so called power brokers will clinch the continuation of conservatism, which is a trite line, the RC church is conservative. Others express the belief that the church will "suprise" itself yet again as it did in the second conclave of 1978.
Tony Blair has postponed his announcement of the general election. China which has not previously recognised the Holy See has applied for diplomatic relations to be opened. The gurrier of the show Charles of Cymru, though remains unmoved and has issued the usual self-centred statement that he's prepared to hold a "royal wedding and funeral" no the 8th day of this month. Which is the 5th day of mourning. despite furious criticism from all sections of British society.

by holy joe Mon Apr 04, 2005 14:51

On New Years Day 2004 Pope John Paul II called for a "new world order... based on the goals of the United Nations."
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/01/01/pope.ny.ap/


"the most honest and natural man was one who believed nothing."

by Mrs Doyle Mon Apr 04, 2005 17:37

Pope lovers must lead very sheltered,insular lives.

My boyfriend in the 1980's was a communist catholic priest and glue sniffer.

I love the catholic church, but i hate the pope.

The trouble with the Pontiff was he kept blessing the constant stream of nasty,smug, guilty rich bastards who could afford to shuffle past him.

The Pope was in effect an empty, cold figurehead, of a rigid totalitarian institution which is totally disconnected from the harsh lives of ordinary working class poor catholics.

by ole hairy camel Tue Apr 05, 2005 02:37

Surely with the glorious Advent of Ryanair anybody, even ordinary working class catholics, can afford to fly to Rome or within 100 km thereof in order to have an audience with the Pope ....

by they line up Tue Apr 05, 2005 14:12

and spoke warmly of the peace efforts made by JP2.
The King & Queen of Spain will join ZP and the leader of the opposition (the first time ever they've done something officially together other than squabble) and pay the respects.
Israel has not said much.

may he rest in peace.
may we make the peace.

by Niall Harnett Tue Apr 05, 2005 17:04

The Pope, whoever he may be at any given time, has been and always will be the leader of the most dangerous and demonic cult of all, that is the catholic church.

by nicolo Tue Apr 05, 2005 17:12

I am totally amazed these posts and especially by this last one.

Its amazing that people like you are so full of yourselfs that you get a kick out making light of the beliefs of over 1 billion people!. You think you know it all and i'll bet it make you feel great to see what you posted appear on the net. But you know what I say who cares what you think little person, over 1 billion people believe in the catholic faith, now they may be idiots and unenlightneded but let them be, for many people without internet access and conspiracy theories, religion is their only source of comfort.

Ok your opinion is that the Church is a dangerous cult but let the worlds people grieve if they want to and stop hiding in cyperspace mouthing off, if there was a day of mourning I''ll bet you would take the day off work(if you do work that is)

by barry Tue Apr 05, 2005 17:23

these posts are just sick not to mention offensive in the extreme. Im not a huge fan of the Catholic hierarchy but spitting on a mans grave like that is bordering on the obscene.

If it turns out the Catholics ARE right , you boys are fecked , big style.

But ill be ok, and i think even Fidels just had an each way bet too. Or maybe hes just a gentleman with good taste and manners, unlike the sickos here.

by redjade Tue Apr 05, 2005 17:29

Italy: The Death of Pope Karol Wojtila
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69215

by Secular Republican Tue Apr 05, 2005 17:33

I thought the R in RSF stood for Rosary.
Away with you now. Bow the knee.

by Deirdre Clancy Tue Apr 05, 2005 18:00

"Only those who die in love, service and exaltation of the Poor, shall taste immortality, alive always in the memory of the slaves and poor they adored."

It is a living miracle to see the poor exalted, to see the starving fed, child beggars uplifted, schooled, confident and clothed."

I think that, although Mother Teresa genuninely believed in what she was doing, we need a more balanced appraisal of her. There's a lot of hagiography. Her detractors can be unnecessarily snide, nevertheless there appear to have been practices that were questionable, such as the refusal to use pain medications in hospices, the enforced conversion of Hindus on their death beds and the cosying up with dictators and ultra-right politicians. We need a more mature debate on the legacy of people who we unquestioningly hold up as exemplars of practical spirituality and sainthood, one that focuses specifically on the role of the modern-day media in creating images which may sometimes be romanticised, despite having some truth in them. We also need to find more room for an acceptance of ambiguity and of the fact that while people's intentions can sometimes be extraordinarily good, and indeed they can be extraordinary people, there can also be serious flaws.

I would concede that even within the Catholic paradigm, there is room for admission that saints are flawed, but personally, I would question a system that fasttracks canonisations such as that of Mother Teresa and ignores the likes of Oscar Romero.

by eeekkkk Tue Apr 05, 2005 19:48

"'Member when he was traversing the African continent with Paulie? 'Member how he was able to speak the lingo of the Washed Out Washington Establishment AND the natives? And, hey, let's not make believe that having a Celebrity Member doesn't count for anything among the Holy Members. Remember all of those scandals?

Clues to emerging front-runners will be hard to come by, though modern technology may offer a little bit of help. And if that's true, Bono's recently acquired contacts in Silicon Valley can't hurt.

The 2005 election will draw the most massive media corps ever for a conclave, creating enormous pressure on the cardinals to grant interviews ó once a rarity.

I begin to close by posing two questions: Who's better at bullshitting in an interview than Bono? And who's proved better than him that wilting under pressure is not an option?

He's the guy who managed to create a new wrinkle for his name off of World Bank African deaths, whilst creating a South African clothing line with his wife, and creating a (timely) self-serving profile for himself and the boys in the band.

C'mon he's a real Creator, in competition with the Creator Himself. And he's Dead Right. (4)"

by redjade Tue Apr 05, 2005 19:55

Windoze Media Player - streamed...
http://airamericaradio.com/layout.asp?baseurl=TheAlFrankenShow/4-4-05/AlFranken.wma

by Barry Tue Apr 05, 2005 20:38

Number one, ive got nothing to do with RSF. Number 2 Ive got very little to do with the Catholic church either.

If I ever do go down on one knee it will either be to propose marriage or steady my aim. (only joking)

Cuba has declared 3 days of mourning. Real socialists have shown genuine respect for the spiritual beliefs of others, and Im simply following the example of good taste and respect for the dead.

by knowing what the actress said to the bishop to the journo... - stream of conscience stuff. he was a great man he was. Tue Apr 05, 2005 23:04

for protocol types, please observe that Cherie Blair wore a black mantilla to the requiem service, black mantillas are obligatory for all women who go and meet the pontiff except of course for the queen of spain who for special reasons gets to wear a white mantilla. That's coz a spanish queen expelled the jews from Spain in 1492, and that was considered a good thing at the time. On the other side of protocol, the man who didn't get the plot line of the magic flute Charles of cymru attended a budhist temple consecration today just to show where his ideas of suffering are, somewhere up the bloody big mountain, the israelis are being told by Bush junior, not to expand their settlements and still haven't said anything clear about Isaiah 40 or the Pope. Blair called the election in the end, coz it has to be, and each state is allocated 5 people at the funeral, the yankee dixies have not yet announced which 5 they're sending to the big send off. The cardinals are being told to observe the rules, which means they are to stop making pre-conclave statements on the suitablity or non-suitability of any candadate for election, though some of them don't seem to be getting the "stay off line message", tsk tsk tsk. Even though it was written in latin by the late pope for them to study and get right. France has had quite a tough time of it on the protocol, being both traditional defender of the RC church and traditional defender of non-RC humanitarian values, so they tied their flags to the mast only showing one of the tricolour colours and now have revised their official statement coz Chirac got too catholic, historians will remember though that when the shit hit the fan last time, France didn't really defend the Constantine thing all that well. And for leonardo uniform watchers the swiss gaurds are not flying white ribbons on their halbards so a french general isn't in charge
The Italian state has of course installed a no fly zone over the dignatories for friday, which will even include as of yet one non-specified second party NATO observation craft. Sure if you can't feel safe in roma where can you? Some people have suggested that peace and long lasting justice between the nigerians and chinese of ulster would be a fitting memorial to the pope, some others have just wondered should their school allow their kids go home smoke drugs, download porn and skateboard on friday or not. Meanwhile, lots nay oodles of people are flying to Rome to "be there" and burlesconi who cried at last week is still crying, and billions still don't get enough food, water or vaccines, and there are still loads of wars going on, and there will be no souvenir mugs sold.
Bad taste is the order of the day, for probably in the lost scrolls the priory of sion -if they exist - keep in foxholes in lebanon, are included the long list of pharasees and saducees who went and paid their respect at the tomb of joseph of arimithea and asked the roman soldiers for the coat and the shirtoff "chertoff" after all the mockery as a relic.
Thus is toast made. It doesn't move. And it's cheesy. And the rules are very very very clear.
Let's see can these people observe them.

Its test time for the "powerbrokers".

Rest in Peace JP2.
You were great.
but they didn't listen to you. ¿did they? no they didnt. the just lined up to kiss your ring.

by the man Wed Apr 06, 2005 00:20

that he has condemned millions to death by sticking to his rigid conservative catholic rhetoric as regards contraception, AIDS anyone?

by barry Wed Apr 06, 2005 00:28

those Africans are just poor black, superstitious fools who do everything the catholic church tells them. Fortunately us white folks have more sense, even though the pope told us EXACTLY the same thing.

Aids in Africa is the popes fault. In fact he probably invented it, just for badness.

Meanwhile here in the enlightened educated west, with no shortage of sex education, there are NO teenage mothers, unwanted pregnancies etc. Nope , no pope here, nosirree bob.

by Barry Wed Apr 06, 2005 00:31

any of us white folks who get up the spout or catch an std...hey... its the popes fault. He told us not to wear rubber johnnies , so there.

by R. Isible Wed Apr 06, 2005 00:47

God's Representative on Earth has given moral succor and encouragement to those countries which promote abstinence education in preference to condoms.

Specifically, the "US Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria Act, 2003" allows faith-based organisations to get money for AIDS prevention without being required to make condoms available to those that want them. It specifically set aside 30% of the funds for abstinence programs in addition to that.

by Rooster Wed Apr 06, 2005 00:50

no pope here, nosirree bob.

by Chekov Wed Apr 06, 2005 01:13

Barry said: "those Africans are just poor black, superstitious fools who do everything the catholic church tells them. Fortunately us white folks have more sense, even though the pope told us EXACTLY the same thing."

For a start, it's simply true that superstitions are stronger in Africa than in Europe. Public health programmes consistently find that they have to combat suspicion of any initiatives, particularly those that attempt to change behaviour. I recall that the WHO resorted to locking parishioners into churches after mass in order to fulfill their vaccination targets in the "kick polio out of africa" campaign. In this context, a 'spiritual' leader announcing that condoms are evil is going to be seriously unhelpful.

Secondly, a large amount of aid money is spent on tackling the aids crisis today. Many of the aid agencies are controlled by the catholic church. They accept the money but refuse to spend this money on saving lives, prefering to preach uselessly instead. That has a big effect too.

by Niall Harnett Wed Apr 06, 2005 01:15

Getting back to what Nicolo and Barry were saying about my first 'Cult' comment. What I'm saying is not motivated by an intention to offend but a desire that people would cease to be part of the huge crowd admiring the emperors new clothes. I'll say it again another way because it's the truth. The pope is deceived to the utmost and is the blind leading the blind. I say that because It has to be said.

by barry Wed Apr 06, 2005 01:15

has the reverend Ian had anything to say about "oul red socks " demise, or is he getting too close to the grave himself to be taking chances ?

By the way I see a Presbyterian minister up in Antrim had to apologise after making fun of the popes Parkinsons disease while addressing a prayer meeting in a big protestant tent.

He was chastised by a local unionist politician for making fun of Parkinsons disease, and, fair play to him, he apologised to anyone with Parkinsons who might have been offended.

Tough shite for any healthy catholics who he offended though.

Just goes to show its not just Catholic priests and Indymedia posters who are a shower of sick bastards.

by BARRY Wed Apr 06, 2005 01:44

but the same spitritual leader is telling them that sex outside marriage and adultery is evil as well ? If theyre that superstitious surely theyd be too afraid of that evil too. I dont believe that those people are any dafter than ourselves. Sub Saharan frica is far from being exclusively Catholic, yet the pan demic is widespread. Cant blame the pope for that.

By the way im not some altar rail hugging Justin Barrett type. Just think certain people are looking a scapeoat to show how trendy and unlike their parents they are.

Although you have approached this subject more maturely than others.

by The renegade catholic church of the poor Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:05

The Pope is the catholic equivalent in backwardness to the Reverend Ian Paisley, but obviously the Pope is richer, and Mr Paisley is more bitter and hateful.

Many working class catholics like myself love catholicism, but do not feel the need to partcipate in the spectacle of the institutional catholic church, where the rich and well dressed get to parade and show off their social status and false piety and hypocritic respectability.

Many catholics who do not go to church, still pray every night, and have their own statues of saints, prefering to pray and offer devotion to these, and some would say, this devotion is more powerful and rewarding than praying through the church.

In idilic places like Cuba, where catholicism complements communism, and communism ensures the more backward aspects of catholicism are kept under control such as (not being allowed to use contraception) and not allowed to dominate their society.

In Cuba where nearly everyone is socially equal and there is no rigid class system, the majority of ordinary down to earth, poor cubans, get to practise true libertarian catholicism, where they have not been touched and have been protected from the inequality and corruption of the catholic church hierarchy( such as paedophile priests etc), and so will celebrate the life of the Pope gladly.

by yohomehearties Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:12

The Holy Father had become very ill and was taken to many doctors, all of whom could not figure out how to cure him. Finally he was brought to an old physician, who stated that he could figure it out.

After about an hour's examination he came out and told the cardinals that he knew what was wrong. He said that the bad news was that it was a rare disorder of the testicles. He said that the good news was that all the pope had to do to be cured was to have sex.

Well, this was not good news to the cardinals, who argued about it at length. Finally they went to the pope with the doctor and explained the situation.

After some thought, the pontiff stated, "I agree, but under four conditions."

The cardinals were amazed and there arose quite an uproar. Over all of the noise there arose a single voice that asked, "And what are the four conditions?"

The room stilled. There was a long pause...

The pope replied, "First the girl must be blind, so that she cannot see with whom she is having sex.

"Second, she must be deaf, so that she cannot hear with whom she is having sex.

"And third she must be mute so that if somehow she figures out with who she is having sex, she can tell no one."

After another long pause a voice arose and asked, "And the fourth condition?"

The pope smiled and replied, "Huge tits."

by Mrs Doyle Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:27

The reason the likes of the Catholic church and other religions ban contraception, is not rooted in holiness or piety, it is purely due to male selfishness and the desire ultimately for male sexual pleasure.

Men are revered in the mainstream catholic church, so nothing can interfere with their sexual pleasure, obviously condoms reduce penis sensitivity to the female vagina etc. So millions are left to contract Aids and HIV because of a backward unfair catholic doctrine which is dedicated to male supremacy and ultimately male sexual pleasure.

People are made to feel guilty and dirty if they use condoms, when in fact they are doing the MOST loving and caring thing for their partner. They are protecting their partners health and safety, and ensuring their partner doesn't catch fatal STD's.

by whats a matter can't get it up Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:32

I'm not a pope lover but even I can see the Joke about the Pope and huge tits, is offensive to catholics and women, can you remove it.

Only men/paedophiles/alcoholics with erectile dysfunction and poor sexual ability need the stimulus of huge tits.

by size doesn't matter Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:47

It is widely known that fellas with erectile dysfunction, and poor sexual ability not to mention limited sexual technique, need extreme sexual stimulus such as fantasies of seducing young girls/boys or sexual stimuls such as women with large mammary glands.

These men perform very poorly in bed, and give women absolutely no pleasure, prefering instead to treat women as sex objects, with no sexual needs of their own.

by geoffrey chaucer - doing the figures Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:29

it would be interesting to see the sales / supply figures for condoms in Rome these next days wouldn't it?
What do you think?
will the vending machines remain full or empty?
give your pal in the hostal a call.

Rest in Peace JP2 you were great.
your stencil is going back on the wall.

by The renegade catholic church of the poor Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:40

It's indicative of Geoffrey's lack of morals , that he doesn't object to the Joke about his reverred Pope, but takes offence to the mention of condoms.

by Barry Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:40

I watched a documentary years ago concerning a leaflet produced by the pope when he was a younger priest, as advice to married couples. He made it clear that the man had a bounden responsibility to his marriage to ensure his wife was sexually satisfied, and lectured men it was their responsibility to make sure they learned from their wife everything he could to give her pleasure.

So stick that in yer pipe and smoke it.

by condoms a measure of true love and tenderness Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:52

It may come as a shocking revelation to you men, but women can't relax and experience true sexual pleasure when they have to worry about, carrying a child for 9 months.

Not to mention catching Aids/HIV/STD's, off they're rich executive buisness men/jack the lad male partners, who've probably sleep with prostitutes when they're away on their high flying buisness trips or just out with the lads.

If you're lucky they'll have more consideration for their one night stands and use condoms, but more than likely men being selfish and very stupid won't, and will give you a lovely STD present or an Aids infected baby.

by barry Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:57

were all scum. all our fault, and the popes.

do you seriously think all the jack the lads are running about with hoors, while the poor little lady is at home worrying about organic spuds or something ?

by The rich have perfected the 5 knuckle shuffle Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:59

How would the Pope know about, how to give women/partners sexual pleasure?

How did the Pope manage to perfect his sexual technique?

by my revolutionary catholic soldier Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:08

In your sad case Barry yes. Barry glad to see you admit you're scum. You certainly sound like scum, and poor example of catholicism.

I on the other hand, am a true responsible catholic male, who uses condoms all the time, and gives the ladies all the pleasure, love and tenderness they need.

The ladies can lay back and relax and enjoy themselves, content in the knowledge they won't be burderned with a screaming child, or lumbered with Aids/HIV or the discomfort of an STD.

by barry Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:17

For a start I rarely go to mass, Ive feck all time for the Church hierarchy or most priests. From the day I became sexually active , in the midst of the Aids hysteria of the mid 80s, rubber johnnies have been de rigeur - full stop.

What Im pissed off about are posts here which basically say all Africans are fools who do exactly what Catholic doctrine teaches , as well as the ridiculous claim that MEN are running about spreading stds while poor innocent women and babies are the poor victims of their manly lusts.

That is all utter bullshit which belongs in the 1950s just as much as a lot of Catholic doctrine.

Idiot.

by they're all lovely ladies, not whores Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:19

Barry is a poor example of a man nevermind a catholic, he doesn't sound like a gentleman or a very proficient or considerate lover, calling women whores.

by Barry Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:25

In an ironic manner, to highlight the nonsensical claim that MEN are spreading disease, while poor innocent women are the passive victims.

What century do you live in ? Have you been out of the house lately ? Theres young ladies out there who would scare the shite out of you , drink wise and sexwise.

Theres very little difference between men and women concerning their attitudes to promiscuity and drunkenness. And thats not the popes fault.

by watching ye all "powerbrokers & mighty" - & we'll count the condoms later. Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:31

stipulate the non pariticipation of the mass media in the conclave or pre-conclave opinion making or influencing of the cardinal electors.

And also lay down the rules for the participation of the mass Church of 1.2billion baptised catholics.

They do not appear to be being followed.

& so the format gets changed.

pass it on. for He will rest in Peace.

by Dante Alighieri Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:45

The exact GPS determined coordinates of the late Karol Wojtila have been finally determined - according to latest wire reports. They are - as many have speculated, Circle VIII, Bolge VI.

For more info, see: http://www.arches.uga.edu/~redman/hell.html

The Inferno: BOLGE VI - Hypocrites

In this Bolge are the hypocrites, who are "weighted down by great leaden robes like cloaks with hoods pulled low covering the eyes, weary and defeated, in pain they must walk eternally round and round a narrow track. The robes are brilliantly gilded on the outside and are shaped like a monk's habit, for the hypocrite's outward appearance shines brightly and passes for holiness, but under that show lies the terrible weight of his deceit which the soul must bear through all eternity." If the sinner stops walking their cloak becomes hotter and hotter. These sinners include the likes of the (first) millennium priests as well as televangelists.

Like those of the fifth Bolge, the bridges across this Bolge were knocked down during Christ's descent into Hell. The rockslides that remain must be climbed down and then up to cross this Bolge.

by gabriel. - "we are not mass media". Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:48

you are to enforce the rules under the penalty of -
excommunication latae sententiae
which shall be globally witnessed.
.:. @ + *

81. The Cardinal electors shall further abstain from any form of pact, agreement, promise or other commitment of any kind which could oblige them to give or deny their vote to a person or persons. If this were in fact done, even under oath, I decree that such a commitment shall be null and void and that no one shall be bound to observe it; and I hereby impose the penalty of excommunication latae sententiae upon those who violate this prohibition. It is not my intention however to forbid, during the period in which the See is vacant, the exchange of views concerning the election.

82. I likewise forbid the Cardinals before the election to enter into any stipulations, committing themselves of common accord to a certain course of action should one of them be elevated to the Pontificate. These promises too, should any in fact be made, even under oath, I also declare null and void.

83. With the same insistence shown by my Predecessors, I earnestly exhort the Cardinal electors not to allow themselves to be guided, in choosing the Pope, by friendship or aversion, or to be influenced by favour or personal relationships towards anyone, or to be constrained by the interference of persons in authority or by pressure groups, by the suggestions of the mass media, or by force, fear or the pursuit of popularity. Rather, having before their eyes solely the glory of God and the good of the Church, and having prayed for divine assistance, they shall give their vote to the person, even outside the College of Cardinals, who in their judgment is most suited to govern the universal Church in a fruitful and beneficial way.

84. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, and above all during the time of the election of the Successor of Peter, the Church is united in a very special way with her Pastors and particularly with the Cardinal electors of the Supreme Pontiff, and she asks God to grant her a new Pope as a gift of his goodness and providence. Indeed, following the example of the first Christian community spoken of in the Acts of the Apostles (cf. 1:14), the universal Church, spiritually united with Mary, the Mother of Jesus, should persevere with one heart in prayer; thus the election of the new Pope will not be something unconnected with the People of God and concerning the College of electors alone, but will be in a certain sense an act of the whole Church. I therefore lay down that in all cities and other places, at least the more important ones, as soon as news is received of the vacancy of the Apostolic See and, in particular, of the death of the Pope, and following the celebration of his solemn funeral rites, humble and persevering prayers are to be offered to the Lord (cf. Mt 21:22; Mk 11:24), that he may enlighten the electors and make them so likeminded in their task that a speedy, harmonious and fruitful election may take place, as the salvation of souls and the good of the whole People of God demand.

85. In a most earnest and heartfelt way I recommend this prayer to the venerable Cardinals who, by reason of age, no longer enjoy the right to take part in the election of the Supreme Pontiff. By virtue of the singular bond with the Apostolic See which the Cardinalate represents, let them lead the prayer of the People of God, whether gathered in the Patriarchal Basilicas of the city of Rome or in places of worship in other particular Churches, fervently imploring the assistance of Almighty God and the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit for the Cardinal electors, especially at the time of the election itself. They will thereby participate in an effective and real way in the difficult task of providing a Pastor for the universal Church.

by raphael - wu ming Roma 1998 for we are not the mass media. Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:56 the catholic world.

"e tutto quello che chiederete con fede nella preghiera, lo otterrete"
Matteo 21 - 22
"per questo vi dico: tutto quello che domandate nella preghiera, abbiata fede di averlo ottenuto e vi sarà accordato
Marco 11 - 24
tutti questi erano assidui e concordi nella preghiera, insieme con alcune donne con Maria, la madre di Gesù e con i fratelli i lui
Atti 1 - 14

by pussy pleasure is paramount Wed Apr 06, 2005 15:02

You're not much of gentleman or real man Barry, to be afraid of lovely ladies.

At the end of the day, ladies are the fairer delicate sex, no matter what their social background or status.

A real gentleman, who is not insecure about his manhood, is not intimidated by strong , forceful women, or dainty lovely ladies, they're all lovely ladies, and deserved to be worshipped and treated as such.

by yer pa Wed Apr 06, 2005 16:38

Or the occasional tawdry hoor with a pert, upturned rack, and a frenzied little bottom.

by by bringing your attention to the text ladies and gentlemen - princes and abbeses Wed Apr 06, 2005 20:59 "she has returned to her room"

globally in 2003 we walked.

: in Rome we walked from the castle of the angel to saint peter's square :

you know the legends.
you know the rules.

can you stay silent?
can you keep a secret?
or are you indeed prepared to pay the forfeit for failing your test?

this flag was walked.

by mome Wed Apr 06, 2005 21:04

.

by psalter Wed Apr 06, 2005 21:43

Geneva, the birthplace of Calvinism, will once again mark its distance from the Vatican and not fly flags athalf-mast for the funeral of Pope John Paul.
The city, where John Calvin introduced his austere version of Protestantism in the 16th century, said it would make no exception to alocal rule that flags be only lowered for the death of a Swiss citizen.
"There is just no precedent of this sort in Geneva," said head of the local council Martine Brunschwig Graf, referring to calls for Genevato go along with the rest of Switzerland in a gesture of respect for the Pontiff, who died on Saturday.
Nearby Lausanne, home to the International Olympic Committee, will also keep its flags flying normally on Friday.
Calvin was a major figure in the Protestant Reformation and under his influence Geneva renounced papal authority, abolished mass andclosed down monasteries in 1536.

Calvinism spread quickly throughout northern Europe finding welcome believers amonst the house of Orange in the Netherlands, and through John Knox in Scotland. Thence Presbytarianism in its many forms spread to South Africa and North America and of course Ulster. Calvinists have always rejected the authority of Rome as did the Greek Orthodox and other churches. In the such spirit did Ian Paisley wave a sign at JP2 declaring him to be the antichrist in the European parliament years ago, till deputy Hapsburg of Austria ripped it from his hands. (yes a _Hapsburg_). Understandably therefore Dr Paisley hasn't expressed any sympathy-
c/ f www.ianpaisley.org/antichrist.asp


Cuba will attend the funeral and this has indeed been welcomed by many Vatican officials, and that's fine, they're not breaking the rules if they say things like "we welcome the condolences of Cuba for the death of peace loving pontiff and his highlighting of economic inequality and evil and eventelling us to release political prisoners, sure raul rivero did the same and he ended up in Spain


Ariel Sharon the rose of the desert and demon of Milton and sprite of Shakespeare has extended his condolence to the RC communion! Ha! he did it days ago, I was just ignoring it.
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/popeisraeldeath4290403.html

Another baddie -

Kim Il Jong, the supreme comrade of the workers paradise of North Korea, and the man who is attributed with causing good weather to miraculously appear during his visit to Russia (by his own media) has today at last allowed Samuel Jang Jae-on, chairman of the North Korean Catholic Association to extend a message of good will to the "pope's people" - (just goes to show Kiim allows freedom of religious expression).
http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=2980
The cloning fashion designer won't be attending the funeral.

updates on the Yankee Dixie delegation.
Mr Bush senior will join his son George Bush junior ( in a photo above) and Laura Bush (the mrs) and Mr Clinton, you'll remember the ex-presidents first flanked Bush 2 to ask america to help the tsunami victims and donate lots. (which they didn't really) Let us remind you that the american print media are pushing the influence of the media savvy american cardinals in the conclave, and they are all accordingly on the "disqualified list" and are on being considered like the Cardinal of Genoa as potentially excommunicated. Please note many of the cardinals come from countries with less weird media than we have, and aren't really used to the assault of the press corp or the power of media manipulation. John Paul 2 thought about that.
That's why he left very careful instructions and made very careful and special arrangements.
for all the world from craggy island to cuba.

RIP-.

Geneva City and Canton home to John Calvin. saying NO!

by not being the mass media Thu Apr 07, 2005 03:18

is iad na muca ciúine a itheann an mhin.
=
It is the quiet pigs that eat the meal.

Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor of Engurland and Cymru has said on the agreement reached yesterday evening by the general congregation of all the cardinals now in Rome to avoid giving any interviews in the nine days between the Pope's funeral on Friday and the election of his successor that is "concensual" but not "writ in stone". He added the time ought be one of prayer and "if there is a reticence on the part of the cardinals after the funeral, that is because we will be in a period of quiet. There are plenty of people talking to the media. The cardinals have to concentrate on prayer."

Quite right - maith an cardinal éist do bhéal.

The last will and testament of HH JP2 the Roman Pontiff will be read today and made public.

Now other rules are to be applied, the late pope quiet specifically stipulated that all that wished offer respects be allowed do so.and even set out passages from Mathew, Mark and Acts to set the tone. It is not acceptable that people be prevented from showing their respect or praying in the vicinity of the Holy See. That's a complete no-no. If the business and commercial life of the city is to be affected then that's that. Mr Burlesconi can handle losing money. Though paying respects or making an act of pilgrimage to Rome does not win you any extra indulgences, favour from God or magical powers in fact it might put you in a state of venial sin considering the damage to the environment and who you're giving money to by buying the cheapo flight. Have a think about that one, high time ye did.
The late pope quite specifically said respect was to be shown globally wherever the RC church is found. He didn't go inviting everyone to the Vatican and causing a big headache for the princes of the church who are reflecting and in prayer and tring to be quiet.
You can remember him at home, because its only his body which is there now, remember that, no need to get a bit of relic or chip a bit off the artwork, or heavens forbid try looking for clues in the stonework.

RIP JP 2 you were great.

by Tom Lehrer Thu Apr 07, 2005 04:46

First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Do whatever steps you want if
You have cleared them with the Pontiff.
Everybody say his own
Kyrie eleison,
Doin' the Vatican Rag.

Get in line in that processional,
Step into that small confessional.
There the guy who's got religion'll
Tell you if your sin's original.
If it is, try playin' it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
Two, four, six, eight,
Time to transubstantiate!

So get down upon your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Make a cross on your abdomen,
When in Rome do like a Roman;
Ave Maria,
Gee, it's good to see ya.
Gettin' ecstatic an' sorta dramatic an'
Doin' the Vatican Rag!

http://www.geocities.com/sysyphusrock/vrag.html

by i'm a ladies man unlike yourself Thu Apr 07, 2005 09:33

'Yer pa', Jesus would kiss and wash the feet of 'tawdry hoors' as you call them.

They're all the same, all lovely ladies, whether they be working girls, studious prudes, corner girl millies or high society debutantes.

Unfortunately its a fact that misogynist men are generally physically stronger than lovely women, and don't hold back when it comes to beating, abusing and putting the fairer sex down, these men seem to think it makes them look tough, when in fact, everyone, including other real gentlemen, know they're just pathetic wimps in life and useless in bed.

by Barry Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:27

Holy Jaysus !! SWISS TONY is posting on indymedia !!!
You know...posting on Indymedia is like making love to a beautiful woman.....

by iosaf Thu Apr 07, 2005 13:27

The seating arrangements-

As you will no doubt have noticed that amongst all those millions of people who are going to Rome to pay their respects, are several individuals and representatives of states who are not normally considered to be part of Christendom, or even at its widest the Catholic World.

Indeed without putting too fine a point on it, some of the congregation at tomorrow's funeral are considered to be enemies of the belief system and the Constantine, Sistine, Columbine, Palatine, et cetera traditions.

So being a sticker for protocol as I am, (sure war broke out and I put on a black armband and marched into the USA consulate waving a bunreacht at them) (didn't get far) or another example "always insist on a proper eviction / court order and if not sue 'em!"

I though to let you what the hocus pocus crew are doing to keep an eye on the suspicious mourners.

The delegation of the USA, comprises of Bush 2, Bush 1, Clinton, Laura Bush and Condolence Rice. [Baptists and presbytarians]. They will be seated next to the King and Queen and prince of Spain and the current president and current leader of the opposition.

Bush conferred a "medal of liberty" on the late Pontiff during his visit to the Holy See, and Rice (the most powerful presbytarian in the world) met in his place Cardinal Sodano the former secretary general of the Vatican (we say former, as according to the rules his authority has ended now - and according to the rules we can not say his authority will be granted again). c/f a photo of the JP2 and Bush 2 encounter :-
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65299&condense_comments=false#comment77377

Iran and Israel will be seated next to Ireland's representatives bertie Ahern and Mary Mc Aleese, whom you will remember were conferred with the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St George.
C/f
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65163&

Cuba will be seated next to Denmark, though not a catholic kingdom it's still on the ancient christendom list, and if the cubans start throwing bottles the Danish are obliged to kick the crap out them.

And if you go through the whole list of guests you will see that the Holy See diplomatic crew have arranged it very well.

Andorra which is a shared principality by Spain and France for head of state things, will be in the front row, thus both the traditional "pope's king" and "defender of the catholic church" (on one side) and "defender or the republic" (on the other mona lisa side) will give high level spooky diplomatic types to those five seats.

If Libya turns up, (which is quite likely everyone is turning up) then they will be seated next to Lichtenstein. (one step wrong and prince Hans is authorised to bite Ghadaffi).

Anything new I'll let you know. Oh yeah the official explanation for this is that the Vatican uses french as its language of diplomacy. This was in fact till comparatively recently an international norm, and the Vatican being sort of comparatively recently "forever and a day" traditional on things no-one else can bother arguing with them about, they've stuck to French as the langauge. Which conveniently gave us this seating arrangement.

Rest in Peace HH John Paul 2 the great.

we're not going to forget you.
Pax = Peace = Paix = Pace = Shalom = Saleem = Mir = Siochain = Frieden = Damai = Pau =
Rest = Liberty = Equality = Fraternity.

Peace = Rest = Liberty = Equality = Justice = "we are all brothers & sisters"

by iosaf - history is made of sarcasm and realism. Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:18

The funeral service has been held *outside* the basilica.
The Churches "in communion" have sat to the left of the door and the world leaders have sat to the right. Some of the national delegations have been split up. There's one swiss guard in uniform for every 50 world leader and boy are they handy with the halbards. Everyone is doing their best this morning to look respectful.

There's an awful lot of "other religious leaders", all of whom got a special mention in the Pope's will. He wanted the belief in God, and the Divine Plan, and the non-material nature of Humanity to be globally communicated in opposition to the cult of materialism. And that may we hope is the mission of his succesor. and each religious leader has his (for there are no female religious leaders) own type of special hat.

The aerial photos show this up quite well. On the left there's loads of purple for bishops and a line of other hats, mostly black for orthodox types. and then on the right its a sea of black world leaders, the Saudi delegations being easy to spot coz they're in their usual day wear but the wives are at home or on the boat.

Here is the list of religious leaders :-

Metropolitan Kirill, head of external relations for the Moscow Patriarchate.
(Patriarch Alexiy II -- who repeatedly refused to meet thePope -- has not attended )

Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew I
Spiritual head of the Anglican Church, Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams
Greek Orthodox leader, Archbishop Christodoulos
Head of Armenian Apostolic Church Catholicos Garegin II
Turkey's Armenian Patriarch Mesrob II
Metropolitan of Abkhazia Daniel Datuashvili
Maronite Patriarch Nasrallah Sfeir
Bulgaria's Orthodox Rousse Bishop Neofit and Vidin Bishop Domitian
Norwegian Bishop Finn Wagle of the Protestant state church
Swedish Lutheran archbishop, K.G. Hammar
Albanian religious leaders: the Catholic Archbishop and Orthodox Archbishop Anastasios of the Orthodox community.
Patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church Abune Paulos


Selim Muca of the (Sunni) Muslim community, Rrok Mirdita, Haxhi Dede ReshatBardhi of the (Shi'ite) Bektashi Muslim sect
are also Albanian but they're on the right.

Chief Rabbinate Director-General Oded Viner
is on the right, with a three other representatives of the Jewish religion.

The King and Queen of Spain are sitting in the row immediately in front of Bush who has been seperated from Rice.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has put on a white mitre to officiate at the ceremony at the doors of the basilica are closed with more than a hundred cardinals in front.

Tomorrow the Vatican will issue a special all italian edition of its weekly gazette, which is expected to be highly critical of the disrespect shown by many to the remembrance of the pope.
Of the items on the list which have offended normal decency are the number of mobile phone photographs "how many pixles you got" which were taken.

And that's that. He will soon be interred in the chapel sistine side where once rested John XXIII.

Maybe if some of the gurriers of world politics change their attitude and take the next pope seriously on the world peace message they'll get invited _*inside*_ the basilica of Roma the eternal blah de blah hocus pocus one of the best libraries on earth... don't chip the stone work, move along there... no you're not getting a peek in there!
to ... hear a mass.

RIP JP2

tv nor mobiles nor internet bring you close to spirituality. kill your tv. switch off your mobile.
if you can't use code leave the internet. There's a real world here and now and forever will be, and humanity is not a digital species.

by - Fri Apr 08, 2005 13:07

for the record.

front row K&Q Spain
second row France Pres & Mrs Chirac
third row Mrs and Mrs Bush 2 ,Rice (in mantilla veil).
fourth row Clinton.
as so on, and thats how the order they go in.

the remains of Karol Wotyla have now entered the basilica. And some of the world leaders are doing the "mafia funeral" thing, shaking each others hands and smiling. Bush 2 has took off his reading glasses, which you don't often see, and turned to talk to Clinton.
And just about now they've all crammed through the doors following the church people and with a lot of serious old money looking vatican men amongst them with the sort of medals you get if ... (who knows what you do for that sort of medal?)

The basilica is very big. it was built like most of the part of rome by Paul V the borgia. who to be honest wasn't really such a nice man. They cluck at you and say oh but he lived in a time of not nice men. And you hum, and mutter "suppose that makes it alright then".

Anyway the dedication over the door reads in latin-
paul v borgia of rome. looks like bourgois of rome.
That is what at end was different about JP2.
He may have annoyed you by not being a feminist.
But you cant say he was a borgia. He was a pole.
A child of the XX century in its worst darkness of nazi-ism and stalin-ism and now he's gone.

Meanwhile lots of people got blown to bits today.
Mostly in the middle east, if egypt is considerd the middle east these days. Some track this increase in murder to the war on terror which pitted islam (that same islam which is represented right now walking behind the coffin and capitalism - that same capitalism which is walking behind the coffin). See- Karol Wotyla brought them all together in the end I' like to think thats why all those creepy people in silk with permenant visitors passes to that honestly very unusual place elected him. If last wishes mean anything, I'd rather not spend a few days recently dead being photographed for the screensaver and have that crew near me in any kind of ritual. It just doesn't seem like REST-ing.

.:. Let's leave Him (& them) all alone now.

Karol would want us to talk about our future.

by JP2 had a bit of integrity Fri Apr 08, 2005 23:09

The Pope would be turning in his coffin, to see such a pack of attention seeking hypocritic gobshites flocking to cry their crocodile tears at his funeral.

JP2 was none too fond of them in life and I don't think he'd change his opinion now he's dead.

by pym unfortunate Fri Apr 08, 2005 23:15

Barry your failure in pleasuring women and intense hatred of them can be understood especially if you're gay.

No need to hide your sexuality behind an inherent hatred/jealously of the fairer, more delicate sex.