The City Palestinian city of Nablus harshly abused

by Seamus O Raghaillaigh Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:32

The above further strengthens the need to boycott Zionist Facism. Dont buy israeli products nest time your are shopping. Check the fruit and veg origins, avoid Jaffa grapefruits and other Jaffa products among others. Easy way to show your solidarity with the most abused people on the planet.

No doubt some warped neo facist zionist will be on to vomit some lies and warped logic as to why this type of tyranny is justifiable. Well it doesnt wash with people whos minds are free and who can see israeli evil .
Long live Paelstine

S

by aviH. Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:41

You have been conned. The question is: are any of you big enough to admit it in time for Holocaust Remembrance Day?

Check this out:

http://www.pmw.org.il/

Read the material very carefully before you just dismiss it as 'Zionist Propaganda'.

by James Wed Jan 26, 2005 13:04

Quote
Easy way to show your solidarity with the most abused people on the planet.

How are they more abused than - the Sudanese, the Burmese, the North Koreans. the Congolese?

If you exagerrate, people wont listen to you - its just a tip if you are interested in making a point.

by Ali H. Wed Jan 26, 2005 13:55

Historically the Jews were the most abused people on the planet culminating in the industrial slaughter called the holocaust.

It is therefore right and proper that it be remembered as the example of how such behaviour ends if allowed to continue unchecked.

Here endeth the lesson!

Unfortunately those who should have learned that lesson were silent while industrial genocide was repeated in Rwanda, and to a lesser extent in Bosnia.

What is not right and proper however is how the holocaust has been systematically exploited by Zionists to justify their own behaviour in Palestine, which can justifiably be seen as both facist and xenophobic.

Ironically many of the most ardent Zionists guilty of political exploitation of the legacy of all victims of the holocaust do not have direct experience of the holocaust as they were resident in Palestine in the pre-WWII era or were in the US or elsewhere in the Middle-East.

This political exploitation defiles the memory of those who were persecuted and died.

Moral of the story use the holocaust as a lesson and not an excuse!

by avi H. Wed Jan 26, 2005 19:53

Did you actually examine the material on that web site? Look at the videos, for example. It is taken first hand from the Palestinian media. Moreover, it is recent material - i.e. some of it from the last couple of weeks. Look at the Palestinian school books. Then, come back to me with a meaningful comment and please, please not the Zionist propaganda thing.

I say this, because neither of you deigned to make any comment about the Palestinian media material.

Moreover, to claim that the holocaust is in some way 'exaggerated', is a species of holocaust denial. To imply that other peoples have suffered since then, which no-one has denied and certainly not me, therefore we should shut up about the holocaust, is also holocaust denial.

Do you know who practices holocaust denial? Fascists and anti-semites. Oh dear.

by James Thu Jan 27, 2005 13:34

I take it you are not referring to me,
I was pointing out that the claim the Palestinians are the most persucuted people in the world is blatantly untrue.

by Mary Thu Jan 27, 2005 16:54

Oh stop sniping James, you seem to have an air of superiority over other comments that of course is if your the same James that posts here quite often- so what if it is exaggerated, does it really matter? maybe thats what is needed to get the point across!.

by Big Fat Guy in a tu tu Thu Jan 27, 2005 17:25

Completly ignore ANY accounts of Palestinian sufferring. None of it is true. In reality, the Palestinians are very happy. They are quite happy to have their land annexed into settlements and have their kids shot. ( Always by accident of course.) Palestinians like being killled. They only pretend not to because a) they are jealous of Israelis b) they are jealous of Liberal democracy c) they are stupid, not like the Israelis.

Another reason one should ignore Palestinian suffering is because this week we remember the victims of the holocaust. Or rather, a certain individual that posts on these lists uses the holocaust and the suffering and murder of Jews in Europe 60 years ago as a glib excuse to silence any cry or protest of suffering from Palestinians. This one individual seems to look on Palestinians as ' untermenschen.' He mightn't want to anniliate them on the same grotesque, 'industrial' fashion as the Nazi scum did to Jewsish people, gypseys, homosexuals, communists, dissentors,Slavic prisoners of war, and anyone else not part of the uniquelly warped Nazi vision for Europe. However, he still feels those pesky Palestinians should shut the hell up, cos that is sensible. Shut up or get shot up.

Damn, he has convinced me. I love God.

by Seamus O Raghaillaigh Thu Jan 27, 2005 17:44

Well I no sooner had typed my comment about some zionist propagandist popping up to justify the slow strangulation of Palestine (-genocide by stealth?) when "Ari" pops up with his link to one of several zionist/facist/apartheid sites to justify their murderous ethnic cleansing and nazi tactics against Palestine. Yes Ari I have seen this site before and its easy to find extremists in any society. Does that in your mind justify all the brutality you are so proud of? There are equally extreme people living in "israel" and many of them are in the israeli army and love nothing better then shooting babies and children dead on their way to school. Do you think that wont drive people who have nothing to loose to extemes??? Are you israelis so stupid that you cant see that the more you murder and opresss a broken people the more they will resort to such tactics??

Finally, I never once denied the holocaust, how dare you accuse me of that! I have the upmost respect for all the victims of Nazism. How dare you use their name to justify your own Nazism. It is as an anti Nazi that I am pro palestinian and staunchly anti Zionist. I have nothing against jews at all. What has a bunch of fat greedy american jews got doing in occupied Palestine anyway, and what on earth links them in anyway to the slaughtered jews of 1939-45??You are truely contemptable and sad. Do you work by chance for the israeli embassy to spread your dirty propaganda?

by Noel Thu Jan 27, 2005 19:58

As if by magic, those arrested from the most abused people on the planet were actually members of Hamas.

You're gonna like it. But not a lot.

by Mr. Stellstein Fri Jan 28, 2005 14:34

...an Israeli missile went crashing through ( insert name of Palestinian district here) killing (insert number of civilians here). Wow.

Imagine the surprise I felt to learn that the surviving relatives, instead of embracing Liberal Democracy and having wet dreams about Bald Eagles and John Ashcroft, instead went off and joined Hamas. Goodness gracious me. Well, keep bombing the primitive fuzzy wuz..., sorry, opponents of Freedom, Isreal, yearghh, because IT IS TIME TO DEFEND WESTERN VALUES!

Yes, Amen. I love the West.

by A.Friend Mon Jan 31, 2005 17:08

I got to this web site in order to read some new, fresh thoughts from people with open minds. But it seems that its the same ol' tunes wherever you go. All are dug so deep in their "ideological bunker", so hard for them to see the rest of the colors in the world besides the color of the specs they were raised/educated with.

For non-israelies the ut seems like the Israelies will always be Facists, baby-killers who justify their actions by using the holocaust (right Seamous ?) or some sort of mutation of George W Bush ( who will forever be the stupid Texan trigger-happy cowboy) in the middle -east.
Why? Because its easy.Its easy to divide the middle-east to black and white than actually understand the complexity of the situation.
Because we all want to fight for the right cause, save the opressed and Israel is just convinient for that cause. Its close (4 hrs flight from most European cities) , there is plenty of news coverage about it (Ever think why? Its not like there isnt anything going on in Africa -but its easier to send a reporter for 6-8 hrs in Gaza or wherever, and then have him back in a bar in Tel Aviv by dinner time, than send someone into the jungle to report without a decent bar in sight. And for some reason CNN doesnt think genocide of black people is "sexy" enough to cover) and there is something intriguing about Arabs (Lawrence of Arabia comes to mind) and Jews (Christ was a jew after all...)
So, why bother with famine in Africa, Dictatorships in South and Central America or confiscation of Suomi lands in Sweeden when its much sexier to stand in front of an Israeli Booledozer ?

And the Israelies,seems like you can take the Jew out of the Ghetto but not the Ghetto out of the Jew... So frightened, so threatened, with so much suffering in their collective memory that they have become blind to the other. Paranoia is king in the Holy Land and too much is justified in the name of safety
Its hard to judge peple in situations where they fear for their life , but sometimes a physical existance isnt all - there has to be maximum effort to be compassionate to the other (Palestinian) or your own (Israeli) soul will suffer.

So, in short - you all bore me very much. You dig your heels into the opinions your teachers taught you and you are too lazy to develop an independant thought.
So what's the point in argueing ?


I'll be in my Atomic Shelter if anyone is ready to get out of their fixation.

by R. Isible Mon Jan 31, 2005 17:24

the above comment by "A. Friend" leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Such as:
1. Are you suggesting that we ignore the genocide being committed against the Palestinians in favour of focusing on genocide in black nations?
2. Do you have a suggestion as to what should happen in Palestine?
3. Do you recognise that what's happening in the above thread is that all opposition to Israeli genocide is being smeared as "anti-Semitic"?
In any event there's a good article at the link below from Counterpunch about the link between the pro-fascist ZZW party, Mussolini and the modern Likud party. It should give some people that equate Zionism with Judaism with anti-fascism a pause for thought.

by Noel Mon Jan 31, 2005 17:54

My dictionary defines genocide as the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

Israelis, therefore, must be the most inept genocidists in history. Deliberately targetting only terrorists.

As for all criticism of Israel being smeared as anti-Semitic. Where's the proof of that?
Criticism of Israel is healthy and necessary in a democracy.

However, it should be comparative and fair.
When Israel is singled out and criticised for faults which are far worse among other nations; then such criticism crosses the line from fair to anti-semitic.

by Ali H. Mon Jan 31, 2005 18:16

How many democracies are you aware of that

1. Discriminate via race-laws against their ethnic and religious minorities?
2. Systematically torture opponents?
3. Carry out state-sanctioned assassinations?
4. Develop and deploy banned NBC weapons?
5. Carry out collective punishment of entire populations?
6. Annex and ethnically cleanse the territory of their neighbours?
7. Invade and destabilise their neighbours?
8. Conduct campaigns of espionage against their friends?

As far as I am aware there is only one country that claims to be a democracy and practices ALL of the above.

If you expect to be treated as a democracy then behave like one otherwise be quiet and accept the consequences.

by Noel Mon Jan 31, 2005 18:29

Call me naive, I hadn't realised that all the Israel bashing on this site was because it's an imperfect democracy.

Now I understand.
Run all imperfect democracies into the sea!

by TheTroll Tue Feb 01, 2005 01:08

having some democratic qualities doesn't give Zionists thier alleged "birthright" of murderous theft of even 1 square centimeter of the Palestinian lands.

Who gives a damn if murderous thieving Zionist crusaders are democratic. It is like Zionist enablers think the Zionist Crusader State being democratic gives "Israel"/ the ZIonist's bloodsoaked occupation of Palestinian lands at right to be murderous thieves of Palestinian lands. well, being democratic DOESN"T give ZIonists ANY "birthright" of murderous theft of ANYTHING. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong and being democratic DOES give Zionists thier alleged "birthright" to just move into Palestinian lands, take over (with Judeo-christian interloaper appeasment), steal what they can, MURDER anyone who resists the ZIonist's offenses, route bereaving widows and orphans of ZIonist offenses into the wilderness.

Democratic! Well, ONE of the ways Zionists have continued to steal more and more Palestinian lands after the Zionist crusade climaxed in 1948 is to have thier DEMOCRATIC Ministry of Defense (AS if occupation of palestinian lands CAN be confused with DEFENDING oneself) declare palestinian lands VITAL for Israel's DEFENSE (?). Then the Palestinians would be removed. Then the farms and orchards on the lands would fall into disrepare. THEN the Zionist's DEMOCRATIC Ministry of agriculture would declare the land BARREN, and sell it. BUT not to the owners, who got kicked off when the DEMOCRATIC Ministry of DEFENSE (?, I'm still hoping SOMEONE can explain how Zionist occupation of Palestinian lands id defensive in ANY way!!!) kicked them out. 48ers got that money. NOT the people who lost thier lands to Zionist crusaders DEMOCRATICLY. And then the palestinians next to those lands had thier lands declared VITAL for Israel's DEFENSE (Nothing?) , because it was TOO close to the lands the 48ers DEMOCRATICLY stole and sold to Zionist Schindler type oportunists who would then make the desert ( the alleged desert which before 48 had been supplying 1000000 Palestinians with food) bloom. ZIonist 48ers gave the newer ZIonists a piece of paper that said they owned the land, just like the Nazis who did the actual invading of Poland gave Schindler an equaly meaningless piece of paper saying he owned a factory in Poland.

by Noel Tue Feb 01, 2005 08:49

Schindler, an interesting choice of Nazi to castigate.

Did Oskar Schindler save too many Jews from the certain death that awaited them for your liking?

by Ali H. Tue Feb 01, 2005 19:18

Either Israel is a democracy and must behave as such and prepare to be judged by the same standards as the rest of us.

There is no middle ground on standards for democracy and no room for fudging on this issue and all excuses/exceptions are invalid as otherwise everyone will have a "vaild" reason why standards don't apply to their special case making a nonsense out of the whole thing.

The alternative is that Israel is not a democracy, imperfect or otherwise.

by Ali H. Tue Feb 01, 2005 19:24

"[Criticism] should be comparative and fair.
When Israel is singled out and criticised for faults which are far worse among other nations; then such criticism crosses the line from fair to anti-semitic."

What if:

Ireland invaved the northern counties and bombed the Shankill Row and other Protestant areas, interned the population, reduced them to abject poverty, tortured them and murdered them when they continued their resistance from Scotland.

Would denouncing the howls of criticism from the rest of the world be taken seriously?

by Arthur Wed Feb 02, 2005 05:04

" Ireland invaved the northern counties and bombed the Shankill Row and other Protestant areas, interned the population, reduced them to abject poverty, tortured them and murdered them when they continued their resistance from Scotland."

Well, if Ireland was victim to 30,000 attacks in 4 years, I wouldn't blame them...
That's what israel has been subject to. 110 suicide bombings alone. That's you and me buddy, blown up for nothing but riding the school bus, or having a cup of tea with grandma...

by Ali H. Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:00

While the Brits are not perfect by a long stretch, under similar conditions in Northern Ireland the British did not conduct collective punishment of the Catholic population and bomb West Belfast. Nor did they build a wall around it nor did they reduce the population to poverty with 50% falling below the UNs poverty line.

That is the behaviour of a democracy.

Moral of the story: quit it already with the excuses and behave like a democracy, otherwise shut up and join the dictators and other outcasts. You can't have it both ways!

by Noel Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:11

Britain, a democratic state, acted imperfectly against a terrorist organisation.
Israel, a democratic state, acts imperfectly against a terrorist organisation.

However,
I can't remember the IRA stating they wanted to kill all Brits.
I can't remember the IRA murdering British athletes.
I can't remember the IRA taking schoolchildren hostage and then murdering them.

If Britain had faced such a genocidal foe their policies would have reflected this.

by Ali H. Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29

Trying to wriggle out of this by comparing yourself to a terrorist organisation simply doesn't wash.

You should compare your behaviour to that of democratic states given that you claim to be one.

Democratic states respect international law and call on the international community to support them and do not act unilaterally and outside the law.

The case of genocidal behaviour is credible in the case of Sudan but obviously not in the case of Israel where the vast majority of Palestinians (and Israels other neighbours) hold no such views (see the last election results! and the fact peace treaties are in place) and wish only for justice and to be left in peace.

by TheTroll Wed Feb 02, 2005 16:14

Notice how Noel didn't actually diagree with anything I wrote, he just added vacant alligations against me. Murderous thieving ZIonist crusaders being democratic DOESN"T give ZIonists ANY "birthright" of murderous theft of Palestinian lands. That remains true. That is the truth that you, and others, run away from.

I don't know any names of any other individual Nazi oportunists. I could have used corperate entities, Krupt or what ever. But I personaliazed it. If Schindler saved ANYONE from death camps that I don't believe even existed as death camps, then that is irrelivant to what I pointed out, that he was an oportunist nazi feasting off the misery of the poles. That crime remains, just as the ZIonists feasting off the vanquished Palestinian's misery remains the ZIonist's crime. And being democratic doesn't change that 1 little bit. So, you can spend your time debating meaningless rationalizations all day if you want to. Zionists remain 4 generations of murderous thieves with NO business being in Palestinian lands at all.

Arthur's coment was prejudiced and wrong. "blown up for nothing but riding on the school bus or having a cup of tea with grandma". Sure, that is the only reason. We will just forget about how Zionists are 4 generations of murderous thieves who have never stopped stealing Palestinian lands and never hesitated to murder the Palestinians who resist the ZIonist's crimes. Show me 1 single week since 48 when ZIonists were NOT conspiring to steal some Palestinian's land, and I will never return to ireland's IMC again. Just 1 single week.

And Zionists are not the victims of Palestinian attacks. Zionists are the vitims of thier own offenses and Palestinian resistance to Zionist offeneses. People do not engadge in murderous theft of thier neighbor's homeland and really expect peace. Not even ZIonists. By your reasoning, nazis occupying French lands were VICTIMS of french resistance fighters.

by TheTroll Wed Feb 02, 2005 16:22

Newswire, Paris, 1943,

3 nazis were victims of attack by 1 of the many actions taken by French terrorists. And all that the nazis were doing was having tea in a Paris cafe.

Sheesh, what a load. I don't se how ANYONE could be prejudiced enough to buy that fabricated newswire. But there do seem to be people prejudiced enough to suggest that of murderous thieving ZIonists and thier murderous thieving grandmas.

by workers unite Thu Feb 03, 2005 21:02 Workersunite726 at hotmail dot com none

THe comparison between Israel and Ireland is absurd. Ireland was invaded and colonized by the British. THe policies of the British led to torture, murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide, and the stealing of Irish lands. This took over 800 years. And the British are still occupying part of the North which they managed to gerrymander. There is a dividing wall in Northern Ireland. There are daily attacks by loyalist deaths squads against Irish citizens that are supported by the Northern police forces and the British government. Now the Israelis also colonized a land and a people. The Palestinians have been teated the same as the Irish have. They were ethnically cleansed from their lands, in order for the Zionists and their supporters to try and create a colonial settler state that would be supported by the U.S. and Britian. The U.S. and British imperialists needed this type of state to be created because it would help them dominate the regions of the middle east, and parts of Africa. The U.S. was able to convince Britian to go along with this, because Britsh rule in this area was weakened after WW2, so they alied themselves with this Zionist movement that began in the late 1800's, and was strenghtened after WW2 because of the Nazi holocaust against the Jewish people. Before WW2 most Jewish people did not agree with the Zionists, because they did not think it was justified for them to form a state on the blood and bodies of another people (the Palestinians). You must remember that before the forming of the state of Israel, Arabs and Jews got along for the most part, although there were conflicts building between them because of Zionist infiltration into Palestine. During this time there was only a 1 or 2 % population of Jews living in that area. And being Palestinian meant not just being Muslim, there were Christian Palestinians as there are today, but there were also Jewish Palestinains as well. After WW2 the Zionists were able to draw many Jewish people into this idea of creating a state based on being Jewish. They actually have draw nthe Jewish people into a death trap, called the state of Israel. who wants to become a junior imperialist partner along side the major imperalist powers of the U.S. and Britian. They are able to keep stealing land, because they are supported by the major imperialist powers. The state of Israel is nothing more than a colonial settler state that was formed, so that the U.S. and British could maintain dominance in this part of the world. Without U.S. financial and military support Israel would not have survived. And it still needs this support today. Israell is nothing but a beach head of imperialism, that is being used today as we speak as a leverage to invade and conquer other nations such as Iraq, because of where tIraq is geographically, and the resources that it can produce, form their natural resource reserves. THe jewish people are not loved by these imperialist, but only used by them to fulfill their own agenda. And there will be no peace in Palestine or anywhere else for that matter without Justice.