Arrests of loyalists with Northern Bank notes ignored

by pc Tue Jan 11, 2005 19:45

where did you find out ?

by eeekkk Tue Jan 11, 2005 19:45

and they were not the same notes according to the report I heard.

by Tim Tue Jan 11, 2005 19:50

both sides are criminals and both sides are scum and both sides rob banks and kill police if the get in the way, then some get elected to parliament or the dail and forget their past or ignore it and hold the high moral ground with blood on their hands. This web site seems to be more of a Sinn fein site every time I log on and I'm sick of the propaganda - stop selling drugs, punishment beatings and robbing banks and then I'll listen to ye but not just now

by Barry Tue Jan 11, 2005 20:20

Appears the arrests were coonected to a loyalist money laundering operation, not to do with the robbery.

Good try though Seamus.

by Séamus Tue Jan 11, 2005 21:17

There's NO confirmation as of yet that the money is not that taken in the Northern Bank robbery.
The PSNI has merely states that it is not linking it "at this stage".

RTE has said this much: http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0111/north.html

However, BBC would seem to confirm your suggestion: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4163783.stm

But, since a large proportion of the notes seized at the infamous raid were not traceable, does it not seem a little suspicious that the PSNI has straightaway ruled out a possible link?

by Barry Tue Jan 11, 2005 22:02

Seamus, Id agree with you about the PSNI. Frankly everything those tramps do is suspicious as far as Im concerned. Im certainly not going to jump aboard the establishment bandwagon on this one I can assure you.

The problem is no-one, and I mean no-one believes the provies on this.

Just prior to Christmas the BBC Spotlight team did a felon setting expose on "tiger" robberies in Strabane, almost exactly similar in nature to the way the Northern Bank job was pulled off. Sinn Feins Pat Doherty participated in the programme, accused anti-gfa republicans and claimed "the dogs in the street" knew who was responsible .He actually berated the PSNI for not taking enough action. What are the dogs in the street saying on this one ?

Only a few months earlier I witnessed the nauseating spectacle of Sinn Feins Mick Murphy from S Down go on TV and complain the PSNI werent doing enough to combat "dissident" republican activity in the S Down area, I believe the same dogs in the street were referred to there.

Worse still this was only shortly after the release of Down men Carroll and Brogan who the PSNI and British army had been caught out fitting up in a bogus sting operation.

What sickens me is Sinn Fein have been only to happy to collude with the establishment when it suited them. The word of the dogs in the street was good enough for them when they pointed the finger at other republicans. Now when it appears theyve been caught lining their pockets, their indignant denials are falling on deaf ears.

The PSNI/RUC have turned many a blind eye in the past for them, especially when it came to silencing republican dissent. They virtually worked hand in glove. Their denials were backed up by the RUC/PSNI, brit politicians and even Bertie Ahern.

As a result of this people have heard it all before and simply dont believe a word that comes out of P Oneills/Adams or McGuinnesses mouths any more. How is it that the word of Hugh Orde, in this case at least, seems more believable to grass roots republicans than the provie leaderships ?

Im afraid this is one Sinn Fein fantasy about securocrat agendas that people have heard too often. Theyve made a mockery of the truth too many times in the past and have no-one to blame for this only themselves.

by eeekkkk Tue Jan 11, 2005 22:09

' if the IRA didn't carry out the Northern Bank robbery, then perhaps it should have'

by shirt off Tue Jan 11, 2005 22:14

here's what you do-

Hire a Van.
wear gloves.
Get to know someone on the inside.
Make plans.
Have an argument before hand.
Get someone blamed.
Live in Dalkey.

by toneore Tue Jan 11, 2005 23:02 toneore at eircom dot net

I realize we're dealing with the Western European chapter of Mensa with a lot of the postings on this site, but is it just me who doesn't get how an author can claim that the arrests of loyalists with Northern Bank notes is "ignored" and then cite reports on both BBC and RTE? Which part of the word "ignored" don't you understand, Seamus?

by The Terminator Wed Jan 12, 2005 06:40

Did you hear the one about the Loyalist who tried to launder his dirty money?

He got caught in the Eastenders laundry by Pauline Fowler.

by mise Wed Jan 12, 2005 08:41

There was no bank robbery, it was just a simple ruse to discredit republicanism, and stifle democracy in NI. Don't get sucked into a big argument as to who did it. There was no robbery - as such. A simple psyop.

by agatha christie Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:09

1: undergo forensic training, you may like to watch the complete series of NYPD, The Bill and buy some gloves.
2: buy a distinctive Ford Transit 350 White Van, you might like to visit http://cars.rte.ie/usedcars/
"type white van man voter" into the search engine.
3: start your journey on the Fenian side of the border.
4: Get to know someone on the inside of the bank.
5: Have an argument before hand.
6: choose your bank in an area with a perceived level of crime activity and ready supply of scapegoats.
7: choose a bank that's in ownership transfer.
8: choose a bank where the money's insured.
9: carry a baseball bat.
10: loiter with your distinctive white van in the neighbouring streets.
11: phone up journalists of prejudice and cluelessness before hand, suggest running a Sunday front page feature with insulting headlines to make an obvious jaded and unhelpful political point.

Having observed the 11 points,

you will now presumely have a lot of money.
£26.5 million is a lot of money.
Police (Ulster Plod) have concluded that £1.15 million in new Northern Bank £100 notes and £50 notes was stolen, and they do not know the serial numbers.
In addition, "the gang" stole £4.4 million in used Northern Bank notes, £950,000 in used Bank of Ireland notes, £900,000 in used First Trust notes, £200,000 in used Bank of England notes and a further £2.4 million in assorted used notes, and no serial numbers are known for these. No notes for which serial numbers are known have so far turned up.

12 : you must decide which one of your bundles of notes are known to Ulster Plod, and which ones are just paper, (this is presuming you're interested in using the paper as money and not just as insured capital) If you don't launder the paper, then Ulster Plod will get suspicious that's the poorly paid overworked ploddy way.

13 :- Now the Insurance Investigators come in.
"thirteen lucky for some unlucky for others!"
(& the telephone records.)
Last Tip -

Don't rob banks, its not fun, its not clever, it doesnt look cool on your permanent record, and its not grown up. If you want to steal something steal some food, and give it someone who's hungry.

by Barry Wed Jan 12, 2005 13:03

If thats the sinn fein line now the next load of weeks could be pretty amusing. The old ostrich with the head in the sand routine wont cut it. No one believes them, anywhere. You surely dont even believe that one yourself.

by Séamus Wed Jan 12, 2005 15:40

I agree Tonore that there is some ambiguity in what I said. Replace "ignored" with "spectacularly downplayed".

by Barry Wed Jan 12, 2005 16:22

British counter insurgency strategy in Ireland from the mid 70s - Ulsterisation, normalisation, criminalisation of POWs, making some form of British rule acceptable to the nationalist population.

The GFA. - erm, isnt that EXACTLY the same ? If theres a difference Id like to hear it.

Could you please explain why "securocrats" would want to scupper a process which delivers precisely what Whitehall and MI5 have been struggling to acheive in the North since they first built the H Blocks in 1976 ?

by mise aris Wed Jan 12, 2005 22:13

...."making some form of British rule"....
I rest my case!

Honestly can you see th RA risking 20 volunteers at Xmas? Men with wives and kids, for a load of dodgy nordy notes that they can't spend?? Not to mention the implications for their political masters if the job have gone wrong! Whoever did this "job" knew their way round all Belfasts' world beating camera security, or knew that it didn't matter. Knew the details of Brit/Ruc Patrols or knew that they didnt matter. Knew the details of the Security at the Bank, or it didnt matter - inside job.

One dodgy picture of a white van. Oh hang on can we make it look like it came from the Dundalk area??

by Barry Wed Jan 12, 2005 23:39

Are you seriously telling me that the GFA doesnt uphold (never mind copperfasten) british rule. Unionist veto, acceptance of Stormont ?

As Sinn Fein MLA Francie Molloy infamously made clear to the Irish times, Easter 1999, "we have accepted partition, we are prepared to administer British rule for the forseeable future".

Theres not much for them to be worried about anyway. This crisis is absolutely perfect for Adams and the Brits. The impasse over Paisleys photo request is quite handily put to one side for a few months as a result. Adams doesnt have to cough up this side of an election (or sign up to the RUC/PSNI untill then either ), Paisley doesnt have to sup with the devil either. And when the time comes for the deal to finally be signed this can be used as a grand wee excuse to disband the militia.

Only something huge could have put the decommissioning photos demand on the back burner for months, and lo and behold something huge happens, bang on cue.

This robbery suits everyone, thats why the people who done it were at no risk at all. Hugh Ordes partial admission that they may have had prior intelligence will prove to be his death knell. But Britains peace process and Stormont Agreement will be firmly back on track once the elections are over as a result.

Dont see what the fuss is about really.

by Anne phoblact Thu Jan 13, 2005 21:58

Well, I think it is over. Or, at least, to put it more modestly, I don't see the way back. The two Governments appear committed to keeping the peace process going; this despite Ahern saying that he believes that Adams and McGuinness knew about the bank robbery plan even as they were in talks with him.

It is for him to decide how they can recover their credibility with him in the future but the Irish people will be astonished if he takes Adams' word for anything again.

I'm intrigued that some of my colleagues in political journalism are optimistic too. The repeated line is that Hugh Orde's blaming of the IRA for the bank robbery defers a deal until after the election, maybe even until next year. No, this time it is bad.

We wonder how the IRA could have been so stupid but they had got used to getting away with their crimes and the political fallout evaporating before it reached the ground.

Maybe they fell through a trap door into Aladdin's cave and could have survived again if they had not taken so much. If they had expected to get so much money, would they have planned two trips in the van?

The British and Irish Governments and police have been going easy on them. It was, supposedly, the price of peace.

The little reassuring myths are circulating. Some suspect the IRA is building a pension fund for when it stands down. There is one benign reading, founded on nothing.

Sinn Fein has already secured money for the IRA ex-prisoners through European funding and other grants. I don't doubt it could have negotiated more from Blair.

I think Ireland is aghast at what a monster the process has created. Sinn Fein has lost a lot of friends. Even the Guardian dropped them a like a hot potato on Saturday and urged nationalists not to vote for them.

This time it is even worse politically than Canary Wharf.

This time it is impossible to see how Sinn Fein can restore its credibility unless, perhaps, the INLA steps up with the millions and apologises for rocking the peace process.

Before the Canary Wharf bomb, Gerry Adams had warned that the ceasefire would end if political talks were not convened.

Many in the media actually blamed John Major for the bomb. Crucially, the IRA took responsibility for the bomb and dictated its terms. Blackmail isn't moral but it, at least, outlines a course of action.

This time Adams and the IRA refuse to take responsibility or prescribe terms by which future robberies might be cancelled.

The Canary Wharf bomb was a brutal but logical response, from a republican perspective, to a logjam in the peace process. The robbery appears to have had nothing to do with the peace process.

If Sinn Fein won't claim it as their own and if no one believes the denial, then how will they persuade anyone to believe they won't do that kind of thing again?

Crucially, why would Blair court another humiliation?

There is an easier course available to him: roll up the map and go and deal with others who play by the rules.

Of course it won't be that simple. The luvvies will be called on to endorse Gerry Mandela. Friends, wherever they can be found, will be paraded. Some right patsies will fall in line.

And Sinn Fein is not some wee party you can brush off and ignore. It is the elected representative of most nationalists. It will expect access to both governments.

How is Ahern going to manage the next photocall? I presume there is no chance now of Gerry being invited to the St Patrick's Day party in the White House, but British and Irish Ministers will struggle to keep their distance.

What of the Sinn Fein vote? It will be tested in May in local government elections and the General Election. If it goes up again that will be calamitous.

If most Catholics vote for a party of bank robbers and spies that will reflect on their commonsense and their civic commitment.

On top of that, district policing partnerships will collapse as SDLP members lose their seats and Sinn Fein refuses to take theirs.

Would it be even worse if Sinn Fein did take theirs now?

And how fair will the election be anyway if one party has a fighting fund of secret millions and all the patronage and influence that goes with such wealth?

by Barry Thu Jan 13, 2005 22:11

Well written piece.

by Northern Ireland Man Tue Feb 01, 2005 00:13

I don't like the use of the word Fenian !!!

by Great one Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:24

Sinn Fein's vote will continue to grow. If evidence was produced instead of opinions people might take it more seriously. Hugh Orde is not a respected figure amongst the majority of Nationalists neither is McDowell. They can scream all they want about the Provos being involved in the bank robbery it wont effect Sinn Fein electorally unless evidence is produced.