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Óglaigh na hÉireann Bank on it
"The British continue to claim sovereignty over part of our country and while that is the case armed struggle will always be justified." —RIRA Televised Interview, February 2003 The Real IRA (RIRA), also known as Óglaigh na hÉireann, is opposed to the GFA and Stormont. They believe that Ireland should be ruled by the Irish; and that, as Bobby Sands said, “The only way to halt the oppressor is through an armed struggle.” They adhere to the principles of true republicanism as put forth by James Connolly.
They broke away from the Provisional IRA (PIRA) in late 1997 when it was clear that the PIRA would go along with the so-called peace 'deal' and subsequently call a ceasefire.
Omagh
The RIRA are thought to be one of the groups responsible for big bank job
The RIRA are thought to be one of the groups responsible for the Omagh bomb (detonated at 3.10pm) that killed 29 people on 15 Aug 1998, and are the only entity to admit to their involvement thus far
Another republican group, which did not come forward, is also thought to have had a role in the operation; and the Royal Ulster Constabulary is suspected of collusion.
Although three warnings were issued and the location was given, video footage of the incident shows the RUC moving people into rather than away from the danger, thus killing 29 people and injuring hundreds.
BA/RUC response time to the warning call also seems to have been deliberately delayed.
After Omagh, the RIRA announced a ceasefire, and became inactive for a brief period of time.
It is believed that the RIRA is now growing rapidly because of the disillusion by the people with the mainstream RA leadership, and as more and more realise that the GFA itself was a sham designed primarily to secure Brit stronghold on the government and cement the loyalist veto option.
Alleged Locations of Strength
The RIRA's main support base is believed to be north Louth and So Armagh. It is also believed that, in addition to their highly successful units in England, there are active, trained units in Belfast, Donegal, Newry and Monaghan.
Two Real IRA cells in the Castlewellan area of south Down are suspected of carrying out a number of mortar attacks on a police station in Downpatrick and at Ardglass. According to the Belfast Telegraph, the Down unit is "one of the most active units in the Northern Ireland."
Other cells are believed to have been established in Cork, Limerick, Wexford, Kildare and Dublin, and Glasgow, Scotland.
England
A sustained tenet of dedication, as well as an ongoing cohesiveness, seems to come most from England — where the RIRA was thought to be responsible the for the bombing of MI5 Headquarters.
The RIRA are thought to have planted and detonated at least 12 bombs in the greater London area.
Their single biggest strike was in London on 3 March 2000, when they bombed the BBC Television centre.
This resulted in massive publicity for the group as the explosion was captured by a BBC cameraman and broadcast on TV stations internationally.
Security sources now say that the RIRA has three to four units based permanently in London. The units are thought to be well trained, and operating independently of each other to minimise the impact of a police intelligence breakthrough on the identity of some of their members. The England cells have also resisted infestations by moles, including attempts by the FBI/MI5 double agent, David Rupert, and the recently exposed Special Branch tout, Nick Gillespie.
It is also thought that the RIRA Volunteers have the support of a small logistical group, which is providing the bombers with accommodation in 'safe houses', vehicles for hits and at least one lock-up garage for preparing and storing explosive devices.
Weapons
Much of the RIRA's weapons are believed to have come from major shipments of arms to the PIRA from Libya and the United States during the late ‘80s and early 90s, including a substantial amount of Semtex.
Semtex is extremely stable and thus difficult to explode accidentally. It has an elastic-like consistency.
It is odorless for the most part (it does take on some low-level Nitrogen fumes when dormant) and is therefore difficult to detect by trained dogs and sensors.
Moreover, small moulded shapes of Semtex have the capability of passing undetected through the x-ray luggage screening machines installed at airports.
There are presently about 30 similar plastic explosives manufactured worldwide under different patents and names.
The RIRA has also perfected "barrack buster" devices and a variety of shoulder-launched projectiles based on the Russian Sagar missile. RPG 22 rockets were used in an attack on the headquarters of the British intelligence service, MI6, at Vauxhall Bridge in September 2000.
The Mark 15 Barrack Buster mortar, which contains ammonia nitrate, is believed to have been developed by an expert along Ireland's South Armagh-Louth border. It is comprised of six gas cylinder tubes, each packed with 20kg of explosives, which are welded to the trailer of a flatbed lorry before being fired over a perimeter wall using a remote control mechanism.
Moreover, the units are thought to have ample supplies of explosives smuggled from the Balkans, including military-type bombs that were manufactured in former Eastern Bloc countries. These 'lunchbox' bombs were used at Hammersmith Bridge in June 2000 and near Ealing rail station in July 2000, and at the post office depot attacks at Hendon in 2001.
Hits
In June 1998 a RIRA unit managed to detonate a massive car bomb in Newtownhamilton, Armagh, without being intercepted, causing huge damage. In July of that same year, it carried out a mortar bomb attack on an RUC station in the centre of Newry and on August 1, a huge R IRA bomb exploded in Banbridge, Co Down, injuring 33 people and causing £2m worth of damage.
In addition to the Taxi packed with high explosives that explode outside BBC Television centre in Shepherd's Bush, London and the ROG-22 rocket attack on MI6 headquarters in London, the RIRA is thought to be responsible for a bomb attack on Mahon Hotel, Irvinestown, Co Fermanagh, and two bombings that caused significant traffic disruptions, i.e., a. bomb attack on Hammersmith Bridge, London, and a bomb attack on a railway line near Ealing Broadway station, west London.
They are also thought to be responsible for a number of small explosions in the North of Ireland.
Casualties
Casualties include Rónán MacLochlainn, killed by Gardai after a robbery attempt, the actor Robbie Doolin and Joe O'Connor who is thought to have been killed by the PIRA. And Kevin Murray, who was denied medical care in Portlaoise Prison, and died of neglect.
Alleged Key Members
One key member of the RIRA is reported to be a Cork man who s regarded by Gardái as the prime suspect for the murder of IRA informer, John Corcoran in Cork in 1985.
One time member, Mickey McKevitt, brother-in-law of IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands, was thought to be the RIRA chief of staff prior to incarceration. He is the first person in the Irish Republic to be charged with "directing terrorism" under the legislation created in 1998. Double-agent (MI5 and FBI) Dave Rupert, will testify against McKevitt.
Seamus McGrane, was recently released on health grounds. McGrane was jailed after being caught during a Garda raid on a Real IRA training camp in Stamullen, Co Meath.
According to Ed Moloney's book, A Secret History of the IRA, McGrane sat on the Provisional IRA Army Executive until the Real IRA split in October 1997.
Colm Murphy, the only man convicted in connection with the Omagh bomb, was jailed for 12 years. He was convicted by a jury-less court despite the fact that Electro Static Document Analysis (ESDA) proved that “confessions” Murphy allegedly made to Irish police during numerous interviews were found to have been forged by detectived.
Pascal Burke, was captured during an attempted armed robbery at Ashford, Co Wicklow, in May 1998 where a RIRA activist, Rónán MacLochlainn, was shot dead by Gardai. The security forces had prior knowledge that an armed unit planned to hold up a Securicor van.
In Britain, three Co Louth men who attempted to procure arms for the Real IRA were jailed for 30 years last May, one of the longest sentences ever handed down by a British court for paramilitary-type offences. Michael McDonald, Fintan O'Farrell and Declan Rafferty were trapped in an elaborate sting operation by MI5 agents posing as Iraqi arms dealers.
Twins, Kenneth and Alan Patterson, were jailed for explosives offences earlier this year.
Portlaoise jail
In October 2002, RIRA prisoners inside Portlaoise jail issued a statement calling for the for the Army Council to stand down. However, under the IRA constitution the decision to call a ceasefire is at the sole discretion of the Army Council, and upon incarceration the chief of staff passed to another on the outside.
He is a reputed smuggler and the brother of a prominent republican who is convicted of a paramilitary offence. This man, along with a former Provisional IRA commander from south Armagh and another ex-Provo from the border area, holds one of three of the most senior positions in the Real IRA.
In words hauntingly familiar with 'Provo-ease', the statement said, "armed struggle should only be carried out when there is a reasonable prospect of success. When it becomes apparent that the continuation of armed operations is futile, it is the moral responsibility of the republican leadership to call a halt to such a campaign."
It also made claims that the outside leaders are lining their pockets. However, in a meeting prior to the prisoners' announcement, the current RIRA leader, in a strongly worded address, said the war would continue and there would be no talk of a ceasefire. Three weeks later, at a follow-up meeting in Dundalk, activists from the main faction demanded that the leadership North and South stand down, and a recently released prisoner read out a communique from the prisoners in Portlaoise saying that the existing Real IRA spokesperson no longer represented them. According to a report in the Irish Independent, "It was an extremely acrimonious meeting which ended in a verbal spat between the wife of a leader of the main faction and the wife of Liam Campbell, the well-known republican who was jailed for five years for IRA membership."
Members on the outside, for the most part, have rallied around around Liam Campbell, a 40-year-old farmer from Upper Faughart, Dundalk, said by police on both sides of the border to be the Real IRA's main strategist, and have vowed to continue the struggle. An article printed in Beir Bua exemplified this decision. Prisoner's still committed to the struggle, and thus still considered POWs, are listed on the POW prisoner list of this website, as are INLA and CIRA prisoners.
Despite the set-backs, the RIRA has become a force 'to be reckoned with'. As one Republican activist recently said, "Republicans have faced many situations in the past and have overcome them as various states have under estimated the will of 'The Risen People'. England, America and all Imperialist countries, know that the higher you build the barrier, the taller we become."
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national |
worker & community struggles and protests |
news report
Thursday December 23, 2004 12:21
by McMean
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Comments (69 of 69)
Jump To Comment: 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1REAL IRA leader Michael McKevitt has lost his appeal against his conviction for directing the activities of the dissident group.
The 54-year-old, from Beech Park, Blackrock, Co Louth, was jailed for 20 years by the Special Criminal Court in 2003.
At the Court of Criminal Appeal yesterday Justice Nicholas Kearns said the court was satisfied that the Special Criminal Court was entitled to conclude that the main prosecution witness, David Rupert, was a credible witness and able to accept his evidence.
The judge added the court was also satisfied all matters relating to the disclosure of documents had been properly dealt with.
McKevitt was the first person to be convicted of directing terrorism, an offence introduced after 1998 Omagh bombing.
He also received a six-year concurrent sentence for membership of a the Real IRA. His appeal, which was heard over four days last month, centred on the reliability of evidence given against him by FBI agent David Rupert.
The 6ft 7in American had built up contacts with the republican movement through his second wife after visiting Ireland in 1992. He was paid $$1.8m by the FBI for information and at one stage was given 8,500 dollars to buy a pub in Sligo. He was also introduced by the FBI to the British secret services and paid £400,000 by them.
McKevitt's lawyers had argued that Rupert was a deeply avaricious man, had been bankrupt three times in the US and had outstanding tax liabilities to the Inland Revenue Service.
He was charged with criminal offences in 1974 for writing bad cheques and worked as a police informer. The Court of Criminal Appeal (CCA) noted Rupert had been subjected to an 14 days of cross-examination during McKevitt's 2003 trial.
Rupert testified about Real IRA meetings he attended with McKevitt at which the Omagh bombing was discussed.
The CCA said in its judgment that Rupert had baggage due to previous personal and business activities which were close to the edge of illegality and perhaps tainted by it. But said he had been shown to be uniquely qualified for work as a double agent.
"The court therefore rejects all criticisms made of the court's judgment in relation to the credibility of David Rupert."
The defence had also argued that there had been inadequate disclosure, this was also rejected by the court.
There was heavy security around the Four Courts in Dublin in advance of McKevitt's case. McKevitt was returned to Portlaoise Prison to serve the remainder of his sentence. The security escort for the journey included five police motorcyclists and eight heavily-armed soldiers in two army jeeps.
Anybody with an ounce of knowledge concerning republicansim would know this.
But then again some people here reckon the free-state army fought in the GPO !!
In theory the IRA was born with the Procalmation of an Irish Republic in Easter 1916. In practice the IRA was born at the same time with the fusion of the Irish Citizens Army and the Irish Volunteers. The body that emerged from the ruins of the GPO, and probably in a practical sense, and more importantly, the network that was built up in the Frongoch internment camp was the IRA.
Of course they're not - look at poor old Slab Murphy - that libel case must mean he's down to his last few 100,000 quid.
as a 26 county taxpayer i do not accept the free state army,they are a 9 to 5 monday to friday joke have never had the balls to sand with the 6 county people and finish a job started in 1916 but as the song goes some men fight for silver some men fight for gold but the IRA are fighting for the land the saxons stole . take a look at yourselfs judas judas judas.
Are you for real?
What sort of credibility do Orde, Blair and the DUP have when known murderers and drug dealers like Johnny Adair are released onto the street under a smokescreen of unfounded accusations from the B-Specials ... RUC ... PSNI!
If Orde, Blair and Co. believe in the "justice" system in the North then why don't they make use of it?
Perhaps the confusion arises from the fact that Óglaigh na hÉireann, when translated to English, means Irish Volunteers. I know that the Citizen Army remained a separate unit throughout the War of Independence and, even through the Civil War, as far as I know. But the whole thing is a bit pedantic, really!
"During Easter week a declaration was issued from the GPO formally amalgamating the Irish volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army into one, distinct armed revolutionary body, the Irish Republican Army."
OK, I went to the histiry book to try an verify this and guess what..... no mention of it. I assumed Barry had some hard info and I posted that it had been a paper exercise. I was incorrect. There was no such event. There is no mention of the old IRA until 1919. I read through several histories with the first mention coming from a history of the first Dail which established the old IRA. Other than that, there is no mention of the Old IRA prior to 1919. All first hand accounts and histories refer to the Irish Volunteers. During the War of Independence, there is a mixing of the titles but nothing prior to 1919.
Barry, Please tell us your source!!!
It seems that there is a whole lot of reckoning going on which roughly translated means that it is someones opinion and is as likely to be a load of shite as it is likely to be true.
Having said that if Hugh says it then it must be true although there remain some lingering doubts about his impartiality. Indeed I heard some cynics just today paraphrasing John Major saying 'we dont believe you Mr Orde'.
As if decommissioning every rifle, bomb & bullit would mean a damn thing with a €40 million modernisation budget. (And that's ignoring the Stg£6M they reckon has been stolen by the IRA in the past year, and the Stg£2M believed to have been paid for training FARC reb-........publicising Columbian Tourist Authority destinations and rendering a new interpretation of that country's immigration statutes.
What's wrong with the world when Ian Paisley & Sammy Wilson start sounding like lone voices of reason?
Hi Barry,
I am not going to refute each and every inaccuracy that you post on this website. Invariably you will come back with further inaccuracies and mistruths to back up your story and I have better things to do with my time. It is best that you educate yourself properly about the events of 1916-1923 before commenting further. If there was any truth in your comments, it would be worth debating but it isn't. However since you asked, I will demonstate why your comments are incorrect. However I still recommend that you read reputable Historians of which Tim Pat Coogan is but one. There are many reputable histories, each giving a different view.
Anyway.
"that the Free State treaty was ratified under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" against the Irish people. How democratic a decision is that ?"
It is a democratic decision because it was the will of the people as ratified in an election. Why they voted one way or another is not a matter of historical fact and to say that it was is incorrect. There is always many influences on the democratic process, in fact many govts use that fact to their benefit when organising referendums. It is then peoples right to publish their feelings on a particuliar issue. It is a citizens duty to inform themself of the issues involved in a vote and vote according to their wishes. You will always get people expressing their views no matter what election or referendum you have. Politicians will urge you to vote one way or the other. Fanatics will attempt to use colourful examples to get what they want and many people will be quoted and misquoted. But Democracy is the will of the people and it is their duty to understand the issues involved in a vote. Views can change with time and a referendum that would fail one day will pass another. People are fickle. That is life.... and politics. It does not invalidate the results of a vote. Democracy 101. Get a politics book at any bookstore. The UN may make a decision as to undue influences on a vote as did the League of Nations on the election of 1921.
"The ONLY time the Irish people have ever exercised their will at the ballot box as a unit was in the election of 1918. "
Using your logic, the 1918 election can be seen as (and was) a backlash against the Conscription crisis. Does that invalidate the result?
"Our Declaration of Independence was done in stricy accordance with international law. "
It wasn't, Seeing that international law is a new phenonmenon (1919+). The declaration was seen as illegal at the time by many states including the US and France. The irish delegation to the Treaty of Versailles negotiations were not even allowed in the door where many other emerging nations were. You can say that it was the UK that influenced this but it was the decision of Woodrow Wilson in the end.
Your "landmark Declaration on Principles of ...." was written 50 years after the events of 1918/1921 and has since been superceded by "UN Declaration on Rights and Duties of States". However, you are mixing idealism with reality. Not a good idea.
"Furthermore in 1998 the Irish people did not vote as a unit"
That is correct. However the result on BOTH side of the border was in the affirmative by a good majority. I voted in 1998. I don't remember having a gun pointed at my head. I remember that the issues were clearly illustrated by the Referendum Commission. Admittedly, I am south of the border but my N. Ireland friends have similiar views to mine. Just because you think it was so does not make it so.
"The candidates which they elected stood as an umbrella group known as Sinn Fein on a clear independence platform."
I suggest you look at the Irish Independant Archives of the period and read the manifestos of the parties involved. Also note that there were many irregularities in that election. However the UN did not exist at the time and the result stands. The UN (which you seem to like quoting) has confirmed the validity of each and every Irish election and referendum since the 50s as did the League of Nations in the 20s and 30s. You claim these elections are invalid. Which is it. Do you question the validity of the UN or not?
"It was a British act of Parliament which gave this state legitimacy, not the Irish people acting as a sovereign independent unit." It was both. There was a british act of Parliament (as there always is) and a legal and valid election. The election was definately more legitimate than the election of 1918 but no more valid.
"The revolutionary Dail Eireann which was democratically established by the will of the people was simply overthrown by British military co-ercion, and a British created puppet militia known as the free- state army. They created them, they armed and equipped them, and they attacked on Britains orders. "
I won't even start on this. It is a good laugh but wildly inaccurate. Yes the british equipped the Free State Army.... as did the US and France. Much equipment was produced in Ireland. However, they were created by Dail Eireann and acted on the orders of their officers, who took their orders from the civilian administration who were elected by the people.
"The British created assembly which they replaced it with clearly wasnt and isnt. It began its treacherous existence under an Oath to the British monarch, and rather than being a stepping stone to freedom, today denies the very existence of the Irish nation and our sovereign rights"
This is really getting idiotic. Are you saying that the British appointed the deputies of the Dail of 1921? My (and everyone elses) understanding was there was an election in 1921. Seems all the history books are wrong. There was no election...... Come on. I post here to debate..... with facts..... not stories.
"What right then had Britain to partition the island ".
I suggest you look up "Boundary Commission" to get the facts on this one.
"As for there being no IRA in 1916, the IRA was proclaimed in 1916 on the steps of the GPO. The IRB, Irish volunteers and Citizens Army formally amalgamated into that revolutionary body at the commencement of Easter Week."
The Old IRA was set up sebsequent to the events of 1916. The IRA that you refer to was an attempt by the differing groups to form a unifying voice. It was nothing more that a paper exercise and bears no relation to the old IRA. The name stuck however and was subsequently used by the Dail of 1919 as a name for the Army which used much of the existing structure of the Irish Volunteers and superceded them. After 1921, the Old IRA became the new Free State army and our current Irish Defence Forces, Oglaigh na hÉireann.
Please. I have no further wish to give history lessons. Go to any bookstore and get a reputable history of Ireland. Then if you wish to debate facts and truths, I will debate with you, but I have no further wish to refute inaccuracies and half truths.
When you're done calling each other "idiot"...
"The IRA has been blamed for the multi-million pound Northern Bank raid in Belfast."
"Chief Constable Hugh Orde said that organisation was responsible .... "
Barry,
I read your response to Rooster regarding the
bigotry issue.
Try and take the emotion out of it. Do not lower yourself to his level. People like him have a huge chip on their shoulder for a number of reasons.
Firstly, people like him are descendents of a group of people who really do not belong in Ireland. They never assimilated into Irish culture when they were transplanted there. Instead, what they got, they were given on a plate.
Secondly, They do not really have any culture of their own. At least the true Irish have an ancient language, sport, dress, music, dance etc. and an ancient heritage. The true Irish did not come out of the gutters of northern England and Scotland.
Thirdly, having been in a privelidged position for so long, the Loyalist position has become weaker. Even their masters in London want rid of them, and have been scratching their heads for decades wondering how to do it.
Fourthly, they are considered an oddity by many free thinking peoples, and the images of them parading up and down the street banging their big drums and blowing into their tin whistles has raised more than a few laughs I can tell you.
Fifthly, they have been negotiated into a corner on more than one occasion and every time they adopt the "I'm not playing any more' attitude, because they want everything their own way, just as they have done for decades and even centuries.
Sixthly, the intransigence and downright injustice of the British system towards the real Irish cuased the re - emergence of the IRA in the Sixties and Seventies. In a short space of time they became the most sophisticated and feared guerrilla army in the world. Not content with having created the conditions for the re - emergence of the IRA , the Unionists now want everything to go away so they can negotiate on their own terms. More like dictate their terms to a people who have a greater claim to the country than they will ever have.
Rooster and his cohorts can bleat on about IRA assasinations etc. But I posed a question in an earlier posting which as yet has gone unanswered. I repeat. What would possess a group of people to pick up guns and fight? Do I have to remind Rooster et al of the Bombay Street burnings, or the B Specials indiscriminate attacks on Catholics, or of the government of the Republic having to mobilise troops on the border to threaten to come to the aid of a beleagured Catholic minority, or of the attacks on Bernadette Devlin and Austen Currie et al simply because they were asking for equal rights in their own land, or the Bloody Sunday atrocity, that even prompted John Lennon to write a song about it. There has to be a starting point for everything.
So Barry, having said all of that, isn't it a wonder than Rooster et al have massive chips on their shoulders? Purely defensive.
Take it from whence it comes, because, let me tell you, a deal has been done behind everyone's backs that will see a United Ireland in the next fifty years.
During Easter week a declaration was issued from the GPO formally amalgamating the Irish volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army into one, distinct armed revolutionary body, the Irish Republican Army.
Because following Easter week offensive operations did not resume until Soloheadbeag, the title was not openly used again until 1919.
After Easter week the remnants of both the Irish volunteers and Citizens army, open organisations as opposed to clandestine, retained their titles for a brief period as a public front.
Also that was not the first time in history republicans had adopted the title. Some of the Fenian grouping which invaded part of Canada had used the title decades previously.
"As for there being no IRA in 1916, the IRA was proclaimed in 1916 on the steps of the GPO. The IRB, Irish volunteers and Citizens Army formally amalgamated into that revolutionary body at the commencement of Easter Week. You seem a little squeamish on this point."
Barry, the above statement is sheer fantasy, the 3 bodies mentioned most certainly were not "formally amalgamated" at Easter 1916 - The Volunteers did not become known as the IRA until the start of the WoI. The IRB remained a completely separate body, its Supreme Council even voted in favour of the Treaty and the ICA was never subsumed into the IRA.
Your statement may serve to fit your Republican ideology but it has absolutely no basis in historical fact.
You "did not find anything which was factually true" ? What are you on about Pat. Before you sarcastically tell me to go away and learn my history, please at least have the courtesy to identify where I am incorrect (according to you all of what Ive said is incorrect). Clarify yourself man?
If all Iv stated is totally incorrect gobbledegook then it shouldnt be difficult to discount, except it seems for yourself. You havent identified anything incorrect.
Britain didnt threaten immediate and terrible war , is that right ? What else. As for Tim Pat Coogan ...reputable historian.....god help you Pat if your view of Ireland is shaped by that man.
Tim Pat Coogan is a 'reputable historian"! What a joke. Coogan is a Fianna Fail hack. A few years ago he was running around telling people that armed struggle was no longer necessary because demography showed that Catholics would soon outnumber Protestants in the North. No real demographer held any such views. The last census showed what a fraud Coogan is. Coogan is one of those clowns, and there are many of them, who loves to run with the republican hare while hunting with the Fianna Fail hounds.
Barry,
Half facts and made up fiction does not history make.
I don't wish to insult, but the above is gobble-de-gook. I mean, I did not find anything that was factually true in any of it. It show a clear lack of understanding of politics and history. I suggest you get a better understanding of the issues involved before making further comment.
Maybe you could read an "proper" history of Ireland by a reputable historian.
Maybe "Ireland since the rising" by Tim Pat Coogan or any other reputable historian.
Also I suggest you educate yourself in Politics and Democracy maybe Siedentop's "Democracy in Europe".
However, If you go to any public library, you will find many useful books.
are constantly insisting that the IRA ceasefire is intact, their refusal to decommission and their constant involvement in the huge crime wave currently hitting Northern Ireland proves what working class protestants have suspected.
And hence, DUP topping the toll with an ever increasing share of the unionist vote at the expense of the moderate UUP.
Pat, the huge flaw in your argument is that the Free State treaty was ratified under the threat of "immediate and terrible war" against the Irish people. How democratic a decision is that ?
We have to assume that this war would have bordered upon the genocidal. A mere 60 years earlier England had in fact embarked upon a policy of genocide here, it had recently gassed and bombed Kurds and Iraqis,so peoples fears at these British threats were obviously very real.
This cannot be considered a legitimate basis for a democratic decision, nor can it be called the will of the people freely expressed at the ballot box (with a British gun to their heads ?)
This action is highly ILLEGAL under International law, norms and conventions. The landmark "Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation Among States" clearly makes the case that "...all people have the right to freely determine, without external influence, their political status and to persue their economic, socialand cultural development..and every state has the duty to respect this right "
This most definitely did not happen in 1921, or 1998 for that matter.
Therefore all changes within the state have most definitely not been done by "democratic" means. This was as clear a case of military threat ,co-ercion and political fraud as you can find.
Furthermore in 1998 the Irish people did not vote as a unit. There were 2 entirely seperate referenda, on 2 entirely seperate issues, held on either side of the British imposed border. They were also held under the threat of force (Mo Mowlams threats of blood flowing on the streets of the south if they didnt pass Britains result should be remembered. They did that one before too)
The ONLY time the Irish people have ever exercised their will at the ballot box as a unit was in the election of 1918. They voted overwhelmingly for complete and total independence from Britain. The candidates which they elected stood as an umbrella group known as Sinn Fein on a clear independence platform. That was precisely why the people elected them, for no other reason.
This was a sovereign decision by a sovereign people. Our Declaration of Independence was done in stricy accordance with international law. The imposition of a British Treaty was not only totally undemocratic but clearly an illegal act. This cannot be viewed therefore as a legitimate state. It was a British act of Parliament which gave this state legitimacy, not the Irish people acting as a sovereign independent unit. Nor was the vote for the Treaty given freely, but done under military co-ercion. Nothing democratic about it.
The revolutionary Dail Eireann which was democratically established by the will of the people was simply overthrown by British military co-ercion, and a British created puppet militia known as the free- state army. They created them, they armed and equipped them, and they attacked on Britains orders. A counter revolution, pure and simple.
The Dail which this force overthrew was an All-Ireland body which upheld Irish sovereigny. The British created assembly which they replaced it with clearly wasnt and isnt. It began its treacherous existence under an Oath to the British monarch, and rather than being a stepping stone to freedom, today denies the very existence of the Irish nation and our sovereign rights. The are most definitely not the same body.
Also Pat, you have clearly undermined your entire argument by including the quote from the DoI. "the elected representatives of the Irish people alone have powers to make laws binding upon the people of Ireland". What right then had Britain to partition the island ? Surely the recognition of British jurisdiction on this island is in direct contravention of this democratically and freely expressed wish.Why should I and my fellow Irish men and women in the north (which is part of the Irish nation) have to follow laws enacted by a foreign parliament, approved by a foreign monarch.
As for there being no IRA in 1916, the IRA was proclaimed in 1916 on the steps of the GPO. The IRB, Irish volunteers and Citizens Army formally amalgamated into that revolutionary body at the commencement of Easter Week. You seem a little squeamish on this point.
Sorry Barry, but your arguments are very flawed. While stating facts that are correct, you leave out so much more that would place those facts in their context.
ie. You state that the Free State was set up by a British Act of Parliament.
To a point, that is correct. However, the Irish political leadership at the time decided to further legitmise the Free State by holding elections where the candidate were chosen by whether or not they supported the Free Sate or Treaty. Those who supported it won. The British enacted it by a Act of Parliament which was, and is, the correct legal procedure to follow. The USA was enacted by a British Act of parliament.
The major flaws in your argument also stem from the fact that all changes to the state in the last 80 years have been done by Democratic means. The "having abandoned all claim to a large part of the Irish nation" was done in agreement by both sides of the border and by a very big majority. Your arguments rarely take into account that referendums and elections are the democratic decision of a majority of Irish people. Or are you saying that Democracy is not a relevant practise???
"Ogliagh na hEireann have and claim the right to oppose the illegal occupation of part of this nation by a foreign, hostile and heavily armed power, the British state. They are the direct descendants of the revolutionary body which proclaimed itself as the Irish Republican Army in 1916, and are committed to the very same objectives - an end to British dominion in Ireland."
Again, I refer you to a proper and official history of Oglaigh na hÉireann, see
http://www.military.ie/introduction/history.htm
None of what you said above has anything to with Oglaigh na hÉireann other than that they are the direct descendants if the Irish Volunteers of 1916 (The IRA didn't exist in 1916, only the IRB).
"This declaration, which was passed overwhelmingly at the ballot box, ".
It wasn't. It was enacted by the first Dail, which had been elected by the people. It is still very relevant whether direct voted on or not. BTW, have you read the Declaration??? I draw your attention to
"'We ordain that the elected Representatives of the Irish People alone have power to make laws binding on the people of Ireland, and that the Irish Parliament is the only Parliament to which that people will give its allegiance:"
The same Dail that exist today.
Pointing out fact without context is far from a proper way to make an argument. Also, using beliefs and practises from the past to illogical. While historical and relevant in the making of modern ideas, thay cannot stand on their own.
Barry
I enjoyed your article. As an Irishman to an Irishman, I agree totally with where you are coming from and above all you have the courage to write your views unlike some on this site who just criticise.
Now Devil Dog - look in the mirror a.m. and the pull the hair from over your ear, if you see the three sixes, start to worry, you are then definitely a member of the PD Devil Dog Party, founded on Ethics, 20 years next September which has now turned out to be pure Bullshit (Granny robbers viz a viz nursing homes/care).
Now Devil Dog give us an article and give us the chance as decent Irish people who don't wear PD Crombie coats and then we will have little look as to where your little devil brain is coming from. I hope you are looking forward to 2007 elections when all you little PD devils will have hot pokers stuck up your asses i.e. metaphorically speaking and getting your P45's. The Mad Mullah and Miss Piggy. The Mad Mullah can then retire to Roscommon that is if his house is still standing because the Co. Council down there have a different view. It is called, Little Devil, legitimate planning application which the Mad Mullah now seems to have amnesia about.
By the way where is the Rooster, he has gone very quiet. Maybe he is with an old hen gone past her sell by date.
Liamo - I haven't heard from you for a while; the idiot who backed up Mutton Pullen's e Fiasco system with a strong smell of bleach coming from it.
I will close; well done again Barry. Keep writing and don't heed, the Rooster, the Devil, and the idiot Liamo.
Jack Russell (In search of equality)
Firstly I am not a member of RIRA or any other clandestine/ armed grouping. I cannot and do not speak for them. As far as Im aware they do not claim to be the legitimate Government of Ireland (a wholly seperate grouping referrring to itself as the Continuity Army Council does I believe. Argue it with them) .
So too does the free-state government, despite obviously not being in control of, and having abandoned all claim to a large part of the Irish nation. Ireland comprises 32 counties, therefore they are not the Government of Ireland either. They simply govern an entity which was created by the British administration, and look after British interests within that state, often at the expense of the Irish peoples interests (Dublin Monaghan being a prime example of this)
What I do know however is that Ogliagh na hEireann have and claim the right to oppose the illegal occupation of part of this nation by a foreign, hostile and heavily armed power, the British state. They are the direct descendants of the revolutionary body which proclaimed itself as the Irish Republican Army in 1916, and are committed to the very same objectives - an end to British dominion in Ireland.
The legitimacy of their resistance is derived in part from the Irish Declaration of Independence. This declaration, which was passed overwhelmingly at the ballot box, established the legal sovereignty of the Irish nation. Britain refused, and continues to refuse to recognise what was the democratically expressed wish of the Irish people - to have the sovereign integrity of the Irish nation recognised and respected.
The arrrogant refusal to leave our nation in peace, along with continued British interference and armed aggression here is an insult to the very notion of the sovereignty of the Irish nation, our dignity as a people ( a mickey mouse status as white savages),
and in clear contravention of numerous UN charters on self determination.
That is the root of all armed conflict here and will undoubtedly continue to be so.
Furthermore at no point did I refer to the population of the 26 counties as traitors, quislings etc (you know this, why are you claiming I did if you arent scraping the barrel).
As to your point about 15 year old kids, there are numerous instances of your heroes in the British crown forces recruiting children of that age as informants, interning 15 year olds in 1971, and even shooting them dead, which they quite deliberately did on a number of occasions to both boys and girls, some of whom were younger than 15.
I believe the incident you are referring to was when someone of that age was used as a lookout at a training camp in county Meath, well away from the zone of conflict. Virtually any film, book or account of any resistance movement throughout the world, including the French resistance, would show teenagers engaged in similar look out activities. This occured 5 years ago,and despite numerous raids and arrests of republicans since there has been no similar occurence. It is therefore unlikely to be a common occurence and I would guess that it most likely will never happen again.
My own opinion however is that it was wrong, and I know for certain that view is shared by many within the 32CSM.
Why, what's wrong with those questions? What is your view of the RIRA vis a vis being the govt/army of Ireland?
And is the bit about the 15 year old factually incorrect?
I had you pegged as a more worthy adversary. Try harder old bean.
So Bazza, all of us who accept the legitimacy of our state and its agencies are quislings/West Brits/etc??
So is the RIRA really our legitimate govt & Army? Do you think they could ID themselves so we know to whom we shd give our allegiance???
Things must be bad when you have to recruit 15 year old kids.....
A good view of their historical legitimacy can be found at
http://www.geocities.com/microrepublican
Were created by a British Act of Parliament, armed to the teeth by the British Army, and set loose on the streets of Dublin on the orders of Churchill, Lord Birkenhead etc.
Their sole purpose was the military destruction of Ogliagh na hEireann and the safeguarding of British rule and interests on this island. They have done a remarkable job of this throughout their shameful collaborating history.
The 1913 volunteer movement it self split and the overwhelming majority of its members joined the British Army in WW1.
The historic title of Ogliagh na hEireann refers to the remnants of that movement, along with the Irish Citizen Army who amalgamated into the Irish Republican Army, a revolutionary body dedicated to to Irish republicanism and the removal of the British presence from our nation.
They have simply misappropriated the gaelic name of the IRA in a bid for historical legitimacy. They are most definitely not the Ogliagh na hEireann which fought in 1916 and against the Black and Tans. In fact they MURDERED many of those who did, with British supplied guns, artillery and armoured cars. And they did this on the orders of British politicians.
Theres no traitor like a free-stater.
Ogliagh na hEireann Abu.
"So it was the Free State Army then who carried out this robbery?"
That is impossible since the Free State no longer exists. The Free State (or Saorstát Éireann) ceased to exist as a result of the 1937 Bunreacht Na hÉireann which was enacted by the people of Ireland in 1937 and supported by a majority. The name Irish Free State was changed to Éire or Ireland under Article 4 of said constitution
"Article 4
The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
Also supported by
"Article 48
The Constitution of Saorstát Éireann in force immediately prior to the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution and the Constitution of the Irish Free State (Saorstát Éireann) Act, 1922, in so far as that Act or any provision thereof is then in force shall be and are hereby repealed as on and from that date."
see:
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/297.htm
The subsequent Republic of Ireland Act 1948 changed the name to the Republic of Ireland
"2.—It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland."
see:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA22Y1948.html
Hence the Free State Army became the Irish Defence Forces, or Oglaigh na hÉireann in Irish, in 1937.
Hence your statement is invalid.
Fallujah is merely the last of a long series of war crimes perpetrated by the "civilised" countries against the innocent civilian populations. A minority of people in those countries are "Islamonazi headhackers", as compared to the majority of people in the USA, UK, Ireland, France etc etc who have knowingly and willingly supported the murder of civilians under the UN's "Food for Oil program". The most famous straightforward public statement of support for war crimes (which occurred under the criminal Clinton administration) was U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Korbel Albright's statement that she thought that the death of over 500,000 children in Iraq was "worth it". I don't know what you'd accept as proof if you wouldn't accept Fallujah, so I doubt that you'll accept the above example (which you could have found easily if you were trying to be honest).
So it was the Free State Army then who carried out this robbery? That figures, given all the corruption in the 26 counties.
Oglaigh na hÉireann refers to the Irish Volunteers, founded in 1913. The Irish Defence Forces are directly descended from the Irish Volunteers and retain much symbolism from them such as the cap badge and buttons etc. No amount of propaganda can change what is fact.
For a proper and official history of Oglaigh na hÉireann, see
http://www.military.ie/introduction/history.htm
"PLEASE, don't tell me the op in Fallujah was an example of the latter."
Sorry to disappoint you, but it was a reprisal against a disobedient civilian population - if not that then what? It certainly wasn't a military target.
"Because German Armed forces murdered civilians by the thousands in their last war, does it follow they'll do so again?"
Yes. I seem to remember the US forces in Iraq doing so too.
"I really can't believe you posted drivel like this and anyway, how am I supposed to prove a negative?"
If you want to argue that rape is not widespread in the occupation, you should try to point out what structures and safeguards have been put in place to prevent it happening, anti-rape brigades, special investigations and all that.
Calley did all of 30 days in the brig for the My Lai massacre. Now runs a jewellry store in Colombus, Georgia. Powell did his best to cover it up.
If you're prepared to drop nuclear weapons on people, fail to apologise after you do it and threaten to do it again and again...all (rape as policy etc et al) becomes permissable..
Chekov: Can't wait for WSM justice to be implemented - the presumption is now that one is guilty, good stuff. "Armies of Occupation" in the past would have seized food supplies and executed civilians in reprisal for the activities of partisans - does this mean these things are going on in Iraq today? And PLEASE, don't tell me the op in Fallujah was an example of the latter.
Because German Armed forces murdered civilians by the thousands in their last war, does it follow they'll do so again? I really can't believe you posted drivel like this and anyway, how am I supposed to prove a negative?
8th of May: don't have time to go thru all those links, looked at a few of them - once again, specific evidence that Marines have raped Iraqis please...and why am I a coward?
As for My Lai, the perpetrator was court-martialed and punished (shd have been executed) but during the massacre, a US army helo positioned itself between Calley's men and the villagers and a Warrant Officer ordered his men to open fire if Calley's unit attempted to close with the civilians.
As for the Marine from 3/1, an investigation is underway....caleed "due process"....I look forward to lots of links detailing the various "war crimes" of the IRA/FARC/ANC/Hamas& the Islamonazi headhackers in Iraq...but I won't be holding my breath.
U.S. soldier was recently court martialled and sentenced for raping and shooting dead an Iraqi male.
http://www.albasrah.net/warcrimes.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411B.html
http://www.rense.com/general60/troops.htm
http://www.unknownnews.net/040428falluja.html
http://www.theinsider.org/mailing/article.asp?id=334
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm
http://www.oilempire.us/warcrime.html
http://www.ukar.org/martin/martin02.html
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-10817_USA_marines,_war_crimes,_caught_on_video....html
At the out break of hostilities a number of British soldiers were captured by the IRA, fed drink all night in a safe house and then set free (usually passed to a priest who then conducted them to the nearest barracks)
There are also photos of British soldiers in armoured cars saluting the funerals of IRA volunteers in Belfast, the turret guns pointing skywards as a mark of respect also.
Brits could even drink in Republican areas. They were known to prop their guns along the bar in both the Falls rd and S Armagh, and even showed young catholic men how the SLR and sterling worked if you bought them a pint.
Then the British govt became determined to crush the Irish peoples resistance. They sent in their dirty tricks brigade as well as the heavy squad, and after that the rest is history.
The activities of the British simply brutalised previously docile and law abiding people.
As Tom Barry pointed out in an earlier campaign "down they went into the mire, and into the mire after them we had to go"
However not always. There is a well known account of a ferocious engagement in Crossmaglen when the M60 was used for one of the first times in the 70s. An IRA unit wiped out a Brit patrol. 3 Brits were killed, one badly wounded. The wounded Brit ran out of ammo and crawled under fire towards the rifle of a dead comrade. He ran out of ammo again and repeated his action. After running out of ammo again he was doomed. The IRA unit drew up alongside him, nodded, and drove on. His bravery was acknowleged.
As for giving medical assistance to British soldiers, Marion Price who was recognised as an absolutely formidable IRA volunteer, worked as a nurse in the RVH. She regularly cared for wounded soldiers. She made it clear that as far as she was concerned, once the soldier is wounded he is no longer a combatant, or in the field in anyway, and therefore entitled to the best medical care available.
You dont seriously expect a republican volunteer to hang around and wait for an ambulance, do you?
"Any evidence please?????"
In the vast majority of wars of occupation in the history of humanity, rape and other mistreatment of the civilian population have been commonplace. This includes the US army's most recent, very well-documented, major occupation: Vietnam, where rape was a 'standard operating procedure aimed at terrorizing the population into submission'.*
You should consider the enormous body of evidence pointing to rape as an almost universal tool of occupation since documented history began. You should also consider the specific evidence of the US army's most recent war of occupation. If you do, you will surely come to understand that the existance, probably widespread, of rape by US occupation forces is a scientifically safe assumption without specific evidence to the contrary. If you want to argue otherwise, you need to convince us that the US army has defied history in such an impressive way. When it comes to the burden of evidence, the ball is in your court.
*Maria B. Olujic, "Women, Rape, and War: The Continued Trauma of Refugees and Displaced Persons in Croatia," Anthropology of East Europe Review, Volume 13, No. 1 Spring, 1995; Special Issue: Refugee Women of the Balkans
Glad to see you blithely dismiss the democratic views of the vast majority of the Irish people.
Brave Provos? How brave do you have to be to kill some 60 year old ex-UDR guy in front of his family or bomb some kids to shit? Anyway, so what? I can equally apply the ephitet "brave" to the Waffen SS.
Why do you link to that blog? He's generally sympathetic to 3/1....Marines raping Iraqis? Any evidence please?????
And please - don't lecture me about what that Marine did - when did Provo scum ever offer aid to wounded Brit soldiers or take prisoners for that matter?
Devil Dog(usmc?
If they support the occupation of our island then yes they are.
I find your views consistent with the murder ethic of U.S marine war criminals!!!!!!!
Good ol' devil dogs, huh!
Check out the link and then come back and lecture me about the courageous freedom fighters of Oglaigh na h-Eireann!
USMC DEVIL DOGS. The few?
yes the few murdering war criminals who have been butchering civilians and raping defenceless women in Iraq!
Sorry Brian, although youre usually quite sensible, your theory on the bank job is way out on a limb Im afraid. Unfortunately rational decent people usually sound like theyve lost their marbles when it comes to defending New $inn £ein.
Examples of this from Connolly House include the rocket attack on MI6 HQ and bomb attacks in Derry actually being the work of "securocrats". In shinner world, anyone resisting British rule is a Brit agent, anyone in $inn £ein collaborating with it is a patriot. This twisted logic has made people Ive known and liked all my life sound like foil-hat wearing mungo's on many an occasion.
In fact anything which might possibly make Adams and co look bad is routinely blamed on British intelligence out to damage "the peace-process". I assume your theory is simply the result of a mindset others have encouraged and not refelective of a mental illness.
I agree with you though whoever did this seemed very sure that they were going to get away with it. This is were I (HORROR OF HORRORS) have to agree with Devil Dog.
The provies have absolutely been allowed to get away with all manner of criminality in the interests of Britains peace - process. Ask yourself why the Brits were able to intercept so many military operations in the past, yet seem totally incapable of being able to prevent major heists involving dozens of people over the last number of years. Why did McDowell even do a major U-turn on his claims of criminality in Dublin?
As for Devil Dog, referring to the day in 1987 when brave men were set up and slaughtered (in order to create this stinking peace-process) as a "happy day" is highly offensive and deplorable.
It was a stinking treacherous act. While those who died asked no quarter and gave no quarter in their fight against British occupation, the fact that they and others were set up by the likes of Fred Scapitticci, a key henchman of Gerry and Martin, is no cause for happiness. The sordid activities of the British state and their collaborators have dragged our cause through the mire, and merely left our country in the rotten corrupt state its in today.
Thats why an organisation which followed the path of their Sticky forebears and went wholesale into collaboration and organised crime has been given virtual immunity from prosecution. Within a short space of time they will offically be up to their necks within the PSNI/RUC and presumably investigating their own criminal acts. As a supporter of "law and order" as well as the British occupation forces, you will shortly be on the same side as those you currently profess to despise.
I am ecstatically happy that I wont and never will be again.
Brian, you need to examine your obsession with conspiracy theories. How wd knocking off £22 million help "maintain British military rule in NI"?
You answer your own questions -of course the perpetrators knew they were going to get away with it, the IRA has gotten away with numerous instances of criminality during this sham of a peace process, why would this be different?
You're also right about the "one way PP" - the sight of 2 govts supining themselves to appease the criminals and murderers of the IRA is indeed "one-way" and absolutely disgusting.
Your attempts to deflect this to the NI SF reminds me of the spin attempts by the IRA after Enniskillen (" the Brits set it off") and the MURDER of Jerry McCabe ("The SAS did it"), not to mention the "Peace process observers" in Colombia.
8th of May: Great username, reminds me of that happy day in 1987. BTW, are the 99% of the people in the RoI who accept the legitimacy of their state and its organisations "quislings & traitors"?
It was just about this time of year that the last great chieftan Donal "Beara" O'Sullivan made his retreat from the Beara peninsula in the face of Brit military might, he and his people had to fight their way to the safety of O'Rourkes castle in Leitrim.
It wasn't Brits he had to fight it was sell out Irish leaders, who for personal gain were prepared to butcher their own people and support the crown.
Not a lot has changed in 400 years. The Beara O'Sullivan was right, though few in the south supported him.
Quislings!Cowards!Traitors!
Spend your shilling well.
There is only one Army and it's not the one protecting imperialist american warplanes at Shannon.
Oglaigh na h-Eireann abu !!!!
No room at the inn. Youll have to try elsewhere.
On behalf of the Breton Liberation Front, the Occitan Army for a People's Struggle and the Martian Movement for a Free Mars, I'd like to thank the 32csm and its handful of members for helping to maintain the profile of isolated cranks in Ireland.
You're doing a great job guys, and your political wing really hurried the cause of Irish Freedom along with that Omagh stuff.
Got room for any more isolated cranks??
ACTUAL REPUBLICAN REVOLUTIONARY OBJECTIVES !!!
Not for ANOTHER load of pubs in SPAIN. Allu shinners out there, will I na,ws and places. Go on challenge me. Its hilarious.
Those who defend irish sovereignty are the true army of Ireland.
accept no imitations. up the Real. I.R.A
Personally thinking - and it's just a hunch - that this job was 'manufactured'. Yes it's a psyop, a false flag job. Why? To maintain Brutish military rule in NI. Simple.
Whoever did this job [ knew ] they were going to get away with it. The Ra would not have risked 20 volunteers at Xmas to do this job, nor jeopardise the one way peace process.
Ok yes! Maybe then I suppose you could say that's exactly what those cunning terrorists would want you to believe.
But if it had gone wrong it would have been political and
tactical suicide by the OnhE. Turkeys voting for Xmas in fact. Just too much risk.
Would you be referring to the free-state army ? The organisation which was created and armed by a British cabinet, and which has consistently collaborated with British rule since its inception. An admirable job they have indeed done in protecting Britains border and partition.
Never done a great job of protecting the Irish people though. Much too busy rounding up republicans and protecting the Brits. Nowadays they like to protect illegal warplanes which are violating Irish sovereignty and neutrality as well. A fine body of men and women.
Thats a bigger mistake than a couple of typos from me. (ps I never have gone in for graffiti much, or Fianna Fail for that matter)
P O'Neil? really .
Whats your problem with dyslexics?
You wouldn't happen to be a narrow minded bigot who discriminates against the 10% of the population who suffer from dyslexia?
Oh. sorry I forgot , sure your a FF'er, thats the party that dosen't give a f**k about schoolchildren with learning difficulties!!
Police raid home of leading republican
24 December 2004
Police search the Ardoyne home of leading republican Eddie CopelandA leading Belfast republican today said he had "no idea" why police hunting the Northern Bank armed robbery gang searched his Ardoyne home.
Teams of officers in white boiler suits raided the Holmdene Gardens house of Eddie Copeland at 9.30 this morning as part of their investigations into the spectacular £22m heist earlier this week.
Mr Copeland said the officers left his 20-month-old daughter in tears after they went through his home and opened 30 Christmas presents during the search.
Officers remained at the house for two hours.
He also said they removed footwear and clothes as well as mobile phones.
Forensic officers were seen removing several bags from the house.
Mr Copeland (34), said the officers had told him they were investigating the Northern Bank robbery but said he had "no idea" why they searched his house.
He said: "I have nothing to do with any robbery."
The well-known republican was alleged in court in 2001 to be a senior IRA man in north Belfast during an abduction case which did not proceed.
There have, however, been conflicting reports in recent months over whether he has become distanced from mainstream republican leadership.
Local Sinn Fein councillor, Margaret McClenaghan, said the finger of suspicion was being pointed at republicans "unjustifiably".
"It's a disgrace that this family have gone through this on Christmas Eve," she said of the raid on the Copeland house.
It has also emerged that officers searched two houses in the Lenadoon area of west Belfast today as they attempt to close in on the robbery gang.
Yes, Barry (done any good graffiti lately?)? there is only one "OGLIAGH na hEIREAINN". Presumably , they're the dyslexic terrorist organization, the IAR.
On the the other hand, there's only one Óglaigh na hÉireann. Their salaries are paid by the Irish taxpayers, through the Minister of Defence, and not by racketting, pushing drugs, protection rackets, robberies, violence, and consultancy to FARC, Al-Qaeda and the PLO.
it´s not even legal tender.
But with that kind of currency, isn't it a bit like breaking into Toys R Us and taking the Monopoly money?
And more to the point, what is the exchange rate these days?
Two of your euros to the pound, pathetic!
People will stop robbing banks, when banks stop robbing people!
But with that kind of currency, isn't it a bit like breaking into Toys R Us and taking the Monopoly money?
Theres only one Ogliagh na hEireainn. They are the real and true IRA. Forget the collaborators and trash, the republican analysis is as solid today as it ever was. Ireland unfree shall never be at peace. Up the REAL IRA. BRITS OUT, PEACE IN.
There's only one Óglaigh na hÉireann. And they currently report to Willie O'Dea. So, shut up/.
What have the Irish Defence Forces got to do with the IRA?
The above comment is in the opening thread, funny the author did'nt mention that the bomb was deliberartely planted.
The chickens are coming home to roost for Adams and Co.
Oglaigh na h-Eireann abu!
an phoblact abu
end british rule. join 32csm
$INN £EIN are the only "republican" organisation sponsored by Coca-cola, so thats a joke for a start.
Joe OConnor was no hood. Ive never had a hood for a mate in my life and never will. The same cant be said for the tramps which murdered him. While Joe OConnor was working every hour God sent to provide for a young family, those tramps were running about in stolen cars. They were the ones which used the IRAs name for protection. They even approached him to join in the past and were met by a firm no. He knew them all his life as petty little gobshites who were out for themselves.
Did you even know the man ? Or are you just repeating the shinner spin and bullshit they used to justfy his cowardly murder. In the immediate aftermath of Joes murder $inn £ein referred to him as a young republican and a friend of theirs and offered codolences to his family.. This was when both they and the RUC were falsely trying to blame others for his murder. It was only when it became clear the killers had been identified did the shit-machine swing into action and drag his name through the dirt.
As usual, the $inn £ein tactic is to resort to slimy personal abuse (unqualified of course) rather than engage in a political argument or debate. No $inn £ein representative has ever attempted to debate republicanism with those of us who remain true to our analysis and objectives and reject the GFA for the sell out it is. One even stormed out of a local radio station when he learned a representative of 32csm would be present for debate. The politics of collaboration are obviously impossible to justify when faced with a true republican analysis. They always have been. But thats what happens when you adopt the SDLPs policies as well as selling out the socialist republic. Debate the issues if you can.
As for stating jo-jo got what he deserved ? 10 bullets in the head in front of his family in broad daylight ? For what exactly ? Thats simply the comment of a fucking snake with NO politics, who will hopefully get what he deserves in the future. Hopefully youll be one of those who'll follow $inn £ein directives and join the PSNI in future. Maybe then youll be seen for what you are, a collaborator, and treated the way such trash has always been.
Joe O'Connor was one of the many hoods who flocked to join the Cokes (not to mention the many touts and informants) because they believed that the IRA name would provide them with some kind of protection. They were soon proved wrong there.
Séamus Ó Cadhain was right, Jo Jo got what he deserved.
In reply to the slurs against dead republicans by Seamus O Cadhain (or more precisely his spitting on their graves).
Joseph OConnor was a long time friend of mine and my family. As regards your nonsense about him being a late convert to republicanism, he attended republican commemorations along with myself as far back as 1996. He was also extremely close to my own late father who was a lifelong republican and one of the founder members of the Provisionals.
To talk about late converts to republicanism is a joke when one considers prominent $inn £ein spokespersons such as Billy Leonard, former Orangeman, RUC man, SDLP collaborator and now in 2004, a fine upstanding shinner. Or maybe theres Mary Nelis, former;y of the peace-people, who led marches to the doors of Derry provisionals during the 70s and denounced them as a bad influence on the youth. Then she was in the SDLP for years before doing an about turn and joining the bandwagon. Lets not forget Mary "who?" MacDonald, former Fianna Fail revolutionary and socialist. To be lectured on republicanism by the likes of these slimy opportunists is an absolute joke.
Joe O Connor had more integrity in his wee finger than these traitors put together.
He refused to have anything to do with Sinn Fein whom he viewed not only as sell outs but out and out gangsters.. He was only too well aware of the sleaze and corruption within their ranks. He had seen it every day on the streets were he grew up. Many of those involved in his murder (and there were up to 20) were former car thieves and petty criminals which he regarded as a joke.
The local people whom you claim he threatened were in fact none other than these same petty crooks and collaborators who abducted a republican at gunpoint, stripped him naked and tortured him in a bid to acquire information and prevent the RIRA from carrying out attacks in Belfast. Joe armed himself and booted down their doors in order to gain his comrades release. These same cowards fled the estate en masse and promptly released their captive. They also gave (false) assurances that it had been a huge misunderstanding and they wanted no further disputes. These assurances, like so much of their statements, were simply lies.
As for your false claims that Joe was a gangster, Joseph O Connor had no criminal record. The same cannot be said for the cowards that murdered him. Furthermore on the afternoon he was murdered, he was taking a lift from a relative to the Falls Rd dole office. He could not even afford a car of his own, never mind the taxi fare. He was that skint the inquest at his death showed he had eactly 8 pence in his pocket when he was murdered. Hardly a very succesful gangster.
Furthermore the RUCs role in the events of that day are highly sinister indeed. At Joe OConnors inquest their actions on that day were roundly condemened by the judge and many question marks remain as to their attempts to blame another organisation and refusal to name the provos as the killers. They still refuse to specify them
I am absolutely convinced that his murder was simply a state execution, with the provisionals acting at their collaborating best.
As regards the unfortunate death of Robbie Doolin, to sneer at the death of any republican is simply typical of the standards within New $inn £ein.
Furthermore your definition of republicanism is an absolute and total crock of shite. The primary ethos of republicanism is to reject British rule in Ireland, in all its forms, as illegal. Not to accept it and collaborate with it.
The objectives of British counter insurgency strategy are well known to genuine republicans. Ulsterisation, normalsiation, criminalsiation of POWs, making some form of British rule acceptable to the nationalist population. The GFA which $inn £ein helped draft, delivers every single one of these counter-insurgency objectives to the British. This is an act not only of total surrender but outright collaboration with the occupying force. No amount of bullshit about visions of participatory democracy can blind republicans to this treachery, or to the fact Britain has no right to occupy Irish soil.
If all Seamus can do is sneer and spit on brave mens graves, while attempting a bit of revisionism which would do Eoin Harris proud, it isnt surprising that republicans will continue to reject this crass nonsense and join Oglaigh nahEireainn.
And more inside than you think. Belfast is one of the most heavily secured cities in the world. More cameras, Brits, armed cops, observation posts, security checkpoints.
They knew all the staff details, where they lived. All the Bank detalis. 20 armed men???
Chief of Londons Flying Squad (the Sweeney)
"It was [spin] virtually a military operation".
Who has that sort of manpower and intel?
The Provos? The UDA? Nah the Brits/RUC.
Nah, I don't believe a bunch of hippies could have done it. Still you might as well claim it for a laugh. I don't really care as long as the loyalists don't get their blood-soaked hands on any of it.
Using a secret codeword we earlier informed various mainstream pig-dog medial channels of the exact hows, whys, whens and wheres of this financial reclamation - which were ignored.
Using our guns (loaded only with flowers) we decided to re-appropriate this newly minted cash, with full knowledge of its unwashable attributes. No non-animal beings were harmed in the operation.
Several red-tops have been stating that we will have to burn the cash.
We knew this from the very start. In the coming weeks when the furore and PSNI heat has died down, the IRA (not to be confused with other organisation of the same name) will proceed to burn all the cash from this robbery. Independent monitors from pretentious art galleries will be invited to see that the cash has been put verifiably beyond use.
This action has been taken to show that we reject imperial and hyper-capitalist financial transactions taking place on this island. Money is the source of all misery in the world. Other financial institutions both north and south that continue to perpetuate the global and local systems of exploitation and inequality may be subject to similar raids.
You have been warned. All banks, financial traders, corporate institutions, building societies, and other for-profit-only machines take note: your cash is a legitimate target.
McMean clearly has a very simplistic vision of armed struggle.
Also, his inclusion of Robbie Doolin and Joe O'Connor in the list of RIRA casualties suggests a great deal regarding the integrity of this organisation. Doolin died surfeited with alcohol and cocaine after he decided to return to a taxi depot, at which he had instigated a row, with a baseball bat (and got more than he bargained for). This is not exactly what Bobby Sands might have liked to be associated with.
As for Joe O'Connor, this late convert to republicanism threatened local people in Belfast, behaving like a mindless gangster. He very much fell on his own sword.
Your argument regarding armed struggle, as though it were some abstract and irrefutable principle, is baffling. It is worthwhile remembering that Pádraig Pearse did not join the IRB until 1913, when it became evident to him that there was no peaceful alternative. Previously he had supported Home Rule. All intelligent republicans view armed struggle as a means, not an end, as a tactic, not a totem. Anyone with a strategic mind can see that the Ireland of 2004 is not a place in which any successful armed struggle can be fought. Being a republican is not about being a nationalist with a gun, but being a person who supports the most participative vision of democracy possible. How can one build such a political dispensation by being elitist and exclsuiove in one's view of what it is to be a republican?