Breaking News from Cuba!

by Paul Revere - Sons of Liberty Sat Nov 20, 2004 06:31

First of all Greetings to all my Irish Comrades, Fidelista; barry 32 csm; and Irish.

You all share the love for Truth and Freedom and Brotherly Love that only concerned Socialists seem to behold.

As to that little lowlife, IMcer, whose cunning comment regarding the subject of Cuba...Where the relevance to Ireland in this?

I suppose IMcer would rather the Irish people not look outside their windows and beyond the trees to see that there is indeed a real world out there! A world that needs caring and attention, not exploitation and savagery, as practised by the bloody capitalists!

Please I urge everyone to go to this site, Murder Inc; and read the article, The Secret Wars of the CIA. You will soon find out who the real bad guy is in the western hemishere.

You will be shocked to learn just how low your capitalist father will go for the Yankee Dollar!

Don't forget to print out copies of Part 1 and Part 2 of The Secret Wars of the C.I.A. by John Stockton, the highest-ranking CIA official ever to leave the agency.

Please distribute them at all college's, etc.

LINKS: http://www.connix.com/~harry/secret1.htm

and
http://www.connix.com/~harry/secret2.htm

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

by Fidelista Wed Oct 27, 2004 16:07

According to Amnesty International (2004 report), Cuba holds 84 political prisoners, or "prisoners of conscience" (some of whom funded directly by a certain embassy in Havana ).

Relative to other countries, not that many Cubans attempt to leave each year. Given the economic sleeperhold (illegal, and being vote on in the UN tomorrow) its not suprising that some do attempt the 70 mile journey.

70,000 people have not been murdered by Castro. That's a ridiculously high number. There have never been hundreds of thousands of political prisoners. That is fiction.

Could you work out the stats on all the sponsored civil war in the hemisphere over the last 50? Civilian deaths? Political prisoners?

by barry 32csm Wed Oct 27, 2004 04:06

notice Statistician conveniently forgets to mention the millions of external dissidents liquidated by the US from Vietnam to Iraq. Perhaps the Cuban people would have been better off with say, Mr Pinochet, Papa Doc Duvalier or one of the many US imposed madmen they have inflicted in their terrorist wars against working class people throughout the world. Maybe Henry Kissinger would have done a better job running Cubas' affairs, thats the stark alternative to the current system.Sure Fidel isnt perfect but compared to those monsters.....come on. As for how the yanks deal with internal dissent to their system, remember the black panthers, Martin Luther King, Leonard Peltier ?.What everyone seems to forget is that Cuba has been under constant siege from a massive aggressive superpower, and therefore in a constant state of war and unable to fully develop it's full potential. Its guarding of it's sovereignty, independence and nationhood against these huge odds is truly awesome and inspirational. Its a pity we in Ireland arent blessed with a government capable of even paying lip-service to Irish sovereignty and the needs of the working class, never mind defending them.

Viva Fidel, Viva Che, Viva la Revolucion !!!!

by statistician Tue Oct 26, 2004 18:54

All of you sympathetic to the Cuban "Revolution":

Approximately 70,000 people have been murdered by the Castro gang since 1959. That is not to mention the hundreds of thousands imprisoned and all of those who choose voluntary exile.

Had the United States engaged in a similar purge of internal dissidents over the same period it would have resulted in around 1,750,000 deaths.

Think about it ....

by lish Tue Oct 26, 2004 18:29

for anyone who's spent any time in cuba there are many contradictions difficult to get your head around.
a socialist country with dollar fuelled tourism where someone driving a taxi illegally makes more in a day than a doctor in a month and where international travel is extremely difficult and causes a lot of resentment.(mostly because cubans need an invitation from abroad to get visas because most countries won't issue visas without them and at least partly due to cuban state bureaucracy.)

on the other had there is genuine concern for the people in a way that is non-existent ,or only induced by public pressure , in neo-liberal economies such as ours.

in a country squezed by an ever tightening U.S. economic blockade most of the money is still spent on health, including incredible health research, education & culture & developing new industries such as biotechnology , rather than on arms, which is amazing given the very real threat of invasion or military intervention Cuba faces.

in the early 90's when the Soviet Union collapsed & Cuba was in an economic crisis new art schools were still being built whereas in ireland arts & culture are the first to be cut.

Cuba has the highest life-expectancy & literacy rate in the region as well as a very low crime rate & low rates of social problems like drug abuse and virtually no homelessness.

schools, including universities are free to Cuban citizens, including food & accomodation & offered cheaply to students from developing countries. the standard of education is respected throughout the world.

best of all there is no advertising, except for a little in the tourist resorts. no signs proclaiming "BIENVENIDOS A LA PLAYA COCA COLA!" just lots of revolutionary slogans ( or propaganda if u like) from "Hasta la Victoria Siempre! " - onwards to victory always to "Patria o Muerte" -country or death.

the tv & papers are full of anti-neoliberal sentiments & worldwide anti-globalization demos. the news i would love to read here, combined with inflated reports of how great everything is going which is standard for any government.

Castro gets standing ovations when he speaks yet there are jokes about the length of his speeches.
he is seen as a grandfather figure by some people i talked to, old-fashioned yet grudgingly respected.
no-one i talked to seemed afraid of him & i never heard the word dictator.

the trade off seems to be how much of a nanny state there is & how much control the govt has over the people's everyday lives, where they live, where they work, how much things cost, what they can buy & sell & the media , as all media is state owned. internet access is expensive & limited & books are unofficially censored. try finding george orwell for example.

i didn't see any anti-govt graffitti or alternative pamphlets but there is a punk scene...music festivals are actually govt. sponsored.

who knows how different Cuba would be now if it weren't for its aggressive neighbour to the north. one thing is for sure & that is that Cuba has survived alone, against all the odds & against the full might & displeasure of the U.S. I don't believe this would be possible without the help of a majority of the population. all in all i think the Cuban revolution was & is a brave attempt at an equal society in an unequal world & i don't reckon it could have kept going if it had been done any differently.

most people i talked to are ready for less restrictions, more stuff and travel but unwilling to give up free health & education.

whether or not the revolution's been worth it & what happens next will be up to the Cuban people.

by IMCer Sun Oct 24, 2004 20:00

Where the relevance to Ireland in this?

by IMCer Sun Oct 24, 2004 19:58

Because this 'story' and most of the comments following on are gloated in somebody getting injured and many of them are actually wishing that he suffers a horrible death. Bad and all that he might be this 'story' if you want to call it a story should have been reported in a fair and accurate manner which is certainly not the case here.

by Scáth Shéamais Sat Oct 23, 2004 20:49

Wow. A mature comment.

Thank you, Fidelista.

by Fidelista Sat Oct 23, 2004 19:04

The discourse on this forum is generally very limited and this example is no different.

The Cuban Revolution came about because of the crap conditions most people in the country lived in. It was a owned and run by the CIA, Mafia and by an elite who didn't even attempt to give the people a decent life. It was a tinpot country. It's interesting that now the people who are most active opposing Castro now are the same people who opposed Castro when he was trying to end the criminal dictatorship on the island. Since Castro took control (and even before then) the country has been put under the most enormous external pressure by other countries, who have used biological and chemical weapons against the population at large and have sabotaged Cuba's economy by placing illegal restrictions on trade. And its exactly because Cuba was going to give its population healthcare, education and a say & a share in their country that it was attacked.

Fidel Castro is not the Messiah or anything like it but his government, when compared with others in the region, comes out quite well. They have achieved alot, there is some participation in government and there are some political freedoms. The population have 1st world health care (with first world indicators) and 1st world education. Cuba's health and science research is reknowned and even the World Bank have praised the government there for the job it has done running services on a shoestring budget. The standard of living in Cuba is substantially higher than most of its neighbours . You'll find the majority of Cubans who are very aware of the system while at the same very appreciative of the things "the Revolution" has brought them, they are proud of their country. A famous boxer of theirs turned down $10 million saying " I wouldn’t exchange my piece of Cuba for all the money they could give me.". Obviously a more free and fully democratic Cuba is better than a less free and less democratic one but Castro isn't the anti-Christ . And although he's a Nike wearer and BMW driver he's not stashing money away for a golden retirement, it's not that type of corruption.

So instead of throwing about clever phrases like "dictator" and getting bitter about some deviation from a marxist doctrine try to think just a little bit more about what Cuba has done in the last 40 years. It deserved at least a level playing field and if it had that, the situation there would be far better for the people.

by sagicious type Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:14

everyone's happy now. they have a little litter tray.

by Tim Fri Oct 22, 2004 20:50

"At least Castro is upfront with his policies and doesnt instill a false fear in his people!"

Your absolutely right. The Beard uses upfront policies to instill REAL fear in his people.

by cuba libre Fri Oct 22, 2004 19:40

Sounds nice. Something i can support. Down all dictatorships! Freedom to people to do what they want instead of what "their" party wants.

by operation indi freedom Fri Oct 22, 2004 18:59

Bring all your Che T-shirts. We'll burn them to the Miami Vice soundtrack. Roll on justice and freedom for the Cuban people.

by cuban Fri Oct 22, 2004 18:45

Cuba is no workers paradise. It is not democracy. It is not socialism. The Cuban working class need to rise up, overthrow Castro and his Stalinist cronies and replace him with genuine workers democracy.

by operation indi freedom Fri Oct 22, 2004 18:38

Everyone gather in College Green and party, party,party when this horrible old man finally kicks it and Cuba is free! What a day of celebration it's going to be, when we're rid of this guy!

by cuba libre Fri Oct 22, 2004 18:07

"Where'd ya learn your English buddy!"

Dont be racist buddy! Not everyone speaks english in this planet as their primary language. BTW i learned it in school.

"I suppose the Cuban people are about as free as the Yanks are!"

Yeah right! I would say Cuban people are more free than people in North Korea, maybe as free as they are in Libya, Morocco etc. That is not free enough. Not to me, and looking at all those refugees from Cuba to Florida, it seems like working people in Cuba agree with me.

by Simone Stinkbomb Fri Oct 22, 2004 17:56

Where'd ya learn your English buddy! I suppose the Cuban people are about as free as the Yanks are! At least Castro is upfront with his policies and doesnt instill a false fear in his people! Socialism Rocks. Its the only way forward- We'll see in the years to come!!

by Kav Fri Oct 22, 2004 17:00

Apparently one of them put an empty can of Devils Bit cider on the steps. That did the trick.

by pat c Fri Oct 22, 2004 16:52

Did the Black Block push him? Lemme buy them a pint!

by worker Fri Oct 22, 2004 16:39

Castro is a dictator. I would like to see him and his corrupt aparatics booted out and replaced by a genuine workers democracy in Cuba.

by Observer Fri Oct 22, 2004 16:33

Was a dictatorship too; so any of this nonsense about free trade unions being crushed is just that; nonsense. The trade unions before 1959 certainly weren't free.