World blind to Israeli murder machine

by avi15 Tue Oct 05, 2004 16:05

but the fact is, if the psychos of Hamas were not firing rockets at random into Israel, killing children, there would be no Israeli incursion. Moreover, we try as much as possible not to hit civilians but if the brave men of Hamas hide among crowds, it is inevitable that civilians are going to get hurt: that's how much they care about their own people. Further, the only way to stop the firing, which can be anywhere within a 9km range, is take and hold all the territory within that range, and to kill or capture all the terrorists there.

Got any other solutions? And don't suggest negotiations, as Hamas wants to destroy all of Israel and won't negotiate.

by sharon sharon Tue Oct 05, 2004 17:28

Go tell your sob story about the poor palestinians to the parents of Yuval Abebeh, 4., who had her legs blown off by Hamas. If they stopped harboring terrorists there would be no incursion.

by space3 Tue Oct 05, 2004 17:38

In fact the Palestinians have on several ocassions offered to negotiate but it is Israel who refuse on the grounds that they will not negotiate with terrorists. The Israelis also want to negotiate purely on their own terms. This is not negotiation, this is subordination.
Check out the UN vetos made by the US on behalf of Israel to Palestinian proposed negotiations who every one in the world except Israel and USA saw as being a fair starting point for negotiations.
As far as Israel not starting anything if it wasn't for those pesky Palestinians, thats bollox. Quite clearly the state of Israel has had an aggresive foreign (has evryone forgotten their invasions of neighbouring countries eg Lebanon)

People dont just commit suicide bombings for the craic, Palestinians are forced down the road of extremism by ever diminishing standards of living and an ever increasing air of non-acceptance for their culture.
Similar, it could be said, to why the State of Israel was set up in the first place.
The culture which experienced its cleansing from German society is now attempting to 'cleanse' its 'own land' of Palestinians.

by avi15 Tue Oct 05, 2004 18:11

Jews to Nazis is a standard anti-Semitic gambit these days. We've heard it all before. I repeat: Hamas doesn't negotiate with anyone, and last time I looked the Palestinian authority weren't stopping Hamas, but in fact was deeply implicated in its terrorism anyway.

We've also heard before the usual rubbish about despair causing suicide bombing. Well, an Israeli academic study has shown that most suicide bombers are not the poorest of the poor, as that theory would lead us to expect, but are generally people from comfortable middle class families. In fact, they are just the kind of people who go off and join Al Qaeda. Often, also, they are blackmailed or coerced into it, especially women and adolescents. And deliberately targetting civilians, whether by suicide bomb or random rocket, is a war crime. So is kidnapping. Moreover, for your information, although the press don't report it, that Al-Zakawi psycho, who does the beheadings and kidnapped Bigley, is of Palestinian origin.

by Nordie Tue Oct 05, 2004 19:13

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1096970580542B253

Come on. Lets hear the rest of the non-Nazis on here explain why they had to shoot her 20 times as she ran away.

by Jo Take Tue Oct 05, 2004 19:23

The Israeli Govt also had the effrontery to claim that the UN were smuggling rockets for Hamas militants. These hypocrites claimed that a folded up stretcher was a rocket in a nasty attempt to have Peter Hansen UN Rep in Gaza removed, probably just because he reports the truth.


.

by Nordie Tue Oct 05, 2004 19:29

The UN say it couldn't have been a rocket which the man in that video was shown carrying because a rocket is too heavy to be carried like that.

by Laurence Tue Oct 05, 2004 21:43

Isreal 2004

Zionism a racist, expansionist political belief
Crackpot belief in “The destiny of the Jewish race to reclaim land lived in 2000 years ago.”
Annexation of Palestinian land
Collective punishment of civilian population.
Mass deportationsroundups internment without trial in prison camps

People rounded up in ghettos.
Civilians routinely killed and ,tortured by occupying army.
Palestinian slaughter ignored by the west


Nazi Germany

Nazism a racist expansionist political belief.
Crackpot belief in “”Historic destiny of Aryan” race”
Annexation of Polish and Russian ”Lebensraum”
Collective punishment of civilian populations.
Mass deportations, roundups internment without trial in prison camps
People rounded up in ghettos
Civilians routinely killed and tortured by occupying army..
Jewish slaughter ignored by the west.

The Warsaw Ghetto

The West Bank

by avi15 Tue Oct 05, 2004 21:45

(He was born Jewish, you see). It just about sums it up:

Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.

by Nordie Tue Oct 05, 2004 21:54

Yes, Mr.Dylan might have been trying to be a bit of a smartarse but he must have forgot that this particular neighbourhood bully is armed with, say a gun, while his victims come armed with knives and sticks. In a way.

How do you feel about the latest non-murder of a Palestinian child by your non-Nazi heros?

by l.a. Wed Oct 06, 2004 07:56

Yes, we (except for the americans) are gatting tires of excuses, an israeli was telling me the same story about the palestinians, that it's the only way to stop them, I guess if they attack you is because you want it all, you don't care about them, you are causing their anger, put yourselves in their shoes...

by Ben Wed Oct 06, 2004 08:14

If my gov. shoots an innocent girl 20 times or kills innocent people for land I'll be against it, but the israeli are never against what their gov. does no matter how absurd they might be...And if we criticize we are called anti semitic...

by Ali H. Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:17

for collective punishment which is against the UN charter to which I believe Israel is a signatory.

The Israeli occupation forces seem to have a policy of executing 10-20 Palestinians whether they're combattants or innocent civilians in reprisal for the killing of a single Israeli.

Finally if you are quote history to justify Israels actions be aware that the last time we saw anything like this was the Nazi reprisals against partisans in France, Italy, Yugoslavia and Greece during WWII.

by avi15 Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:51

ignorant and abusive comparisons - all of them. Try finding out the true facts before you mouth off on a topic.

by Ali H. Wed Oct 06, 2004 13:14

A). That Israel is carrying out collective punishment of Palestinians in breach of the UN charter?

B). That the Israeli security forces kill civilians with no fear of punishment?

by Benjamin Goldenthal Wed Oct 06, 2004 16:44

Loaded questions!
You couldn’t conduct a reasonable argument if you tried.

I read that article about the poor little girl who was mown down in a hail of bullets.
Put yourself in the boots of an Israeli soldier standing guard against a ruthless enemy who is prepared to stoop to the depths of depravity. He could not take the chance that this girl was not a suicide bomber. In fact by leaving her school bag behind her as she ran sealed her fate. Suicide bombers have dressed a orthodox rabbis in order to sneak into Israel and attack innocent civilians. They have disguised themselves as pregnant women. A woman pushing a pram with a baby even blew herself up. A teenage boy strapped with explosives tried to blow himself up at a checkpoint before thankfully he was given the option of surrender or a bullet into the forehead.
How would the soldier have known that the girl who ignored challenges to stop and then leaves her bag behind her was not a bomber? She was shot twenty times because the M16 rifle carries a 20-round magazine. The soldier made sure to be sure.

Speaking of the Nazis they sent little boys on bicycles in SS uniforms and armed with rifles to attack the advancing Russian troops entering Berlin. At first the Russians guffawed and split their sides in laughter until they started getting shot and killed by these baby faced young crackshots. The Russians overcame their disbelief and treated the young killers as they would treat the adult German soldiers they met previously – shoot to kill.
In combat you don’t have a second chance- the quick thinking Israeli soldier who shot the girl wasn’t going to take any.

Avi 15 don’t waste your time trying to convince these goyim.

by Wha? Wed Oct 06, 2004 17:03

So you equate armed teenage boys (in a full-scale battle) with an unarmed schoolgirl going about her daily business? You do live in some very strange headspace.

by Jimmy - Free earth Wed Oct 06, 2004 17:52 jimmy345 at hotmail dot com

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

Active in Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas wants to liberate all of Palestine and establish a radical Islamic state in place of Israel. It is has gained notoriety with its assassinations, car bombs and other acts of terrorism.

Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

by Ali H. Wed Oct 06, 2004 18:22

Israeli soldiers seem to have a free hand in murdering whom they please with the excuse of protecting themselves. Similar excuses were used by those guilty or warcrimes in the past. As for using disguises the Palestinians probably learned this tactic from the Israelis for whom it is standard practice. Take for instance the example of Ehud Barak who disguised himself as a woman to perform an assassination, or more recently Israeli agents posing as Canadian citizens attempted to assassinate a Palestinian living in Jordan etc. etc.

The fact remains the Israelis are illegally occupying the Palestinian lands and behave like barbarians collectively punishing the Palestinians for rising up against them. Reading the sort of purile rubbish trotted out by Zionists in defence of the indefensible makes me hope there is a hell where you can join Adolf & Co. to answer for your sins!

by nordie Wed Oct 06, 2004 18:30

No, no. The non-Nazi is right here because Hamas have the ability to not only disguise themselves in school uniforms but to turn their bodies into 13 year old girls. Do none of you people realise by now that the non-Nazis can't commit murder because of their deep grained humanity and total respect for life? Are you all so blinded by realities that you can't believe the fiction?

by Benjamin Goldenthal Wed Oct 06, 2004 19:15

Palestinian children are indoctrinated with the most despicible and vile Anti-Jewish propaganda. They are taught that Jews are pigs and monkeys. Posters of suicide bombers are posted on walls as they were Brtiney Spears or the Backstreet Boys.
Children are being made ready for the teenage youth wings of Hamas, Alasqa Martyrs, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and the PLO where they are taught how to use pistols, submachine guns and automatic rifles and use of explosives.
Sound familiar?
The Hitler Youth applied the same system.

The Germans fought a nihilistic struggle to defeat the world for the future of the Aryan race.

The Palestinians are in a nihilistic struggle to destroy the Jewish State and create an extremist Islamic republic which would be Disneyland for terrorists to launch sorties against secular Europe.

That dead Palestinian girl could have been armed with a bomb in her school bag and by her actions the Israeli soldier had to assume she did - so he shot her.

Someone pointed out that the young Nazi school boys I mentioned earlier where killed in a full scale battle. I don't have to remind you that Israel is involved in a full scale battle against Islamic terrorists who hide behind the Palestinian civilian population to launch attacks against innocent Jewish men women and children. We have EVERY right to defend ourselves.

We are targeting and killing the terrorists who ride about in SUV's through crowded streets as they plan their attacks. Every effort is made to limit collatoral damage but this is not always possible to avoid.

Palestinian terrorists however deliberately target innocent men women and children on buses going to school and work in the morning rush hour.

The Palestinians must give up their struggle and we will negotiate with them on OUR terms.

by Kelly Wed Oct 06, 2004 19:24

Major Palestinian Terrorist Attacks Since September 2000



29 September 2000 - Palestinians riot on Jerusalem's Temple Mount, hurling rocks at Jewish worshippers at the Western Wall and Israeli policemen. Fire bombs are also thrown.

12 October 2000 - Two IDF reservists are brutally lynched by a Ramallah mob after taking a wrong turn on the way to their base. The body of one of the soldiers was tied to a car and dragged through the streets.

19 October 2000 - Shooting of Israeli civilians on an outing on Mt. Eival, near Nablus. Rescue efforts continued for several hours under heavy Palestinian gunfire. The civilians could only be evacuated under the cover of darkness. One Israeli was killed and four were wounded.

2 November 2000 - Terror attack near the Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem. A car loaded with ten kilograms of explosives blows up on a side street near the market, killing two Israelis and injuring 11 others. The terrorists managed to escape.

20 November 2000 - An explosive charge and a missile were fired at a bus carrying children on their way to school in the Gaza Strip. Two Israelis were killed and nine were injured, among them small children whose legs were blown off. Following the attack, Israeli naval ships and IAF helicopters struck installations of the Palestinian Authority and its security apparatus.

14 February 2001 - An "Egged" bus driven by a Palestinian rammed into a group of Israelis waiting at a bus stop south of Tel Aviv. Eight Israelis were killed and three female IDF soldiers were seriously wounded.

4 March 2001 - A suicide bomber blew himself up in Netanya, killing three Israelis and injuring more than 80.

18 March 2001 - For the first time since 1967, mortar bombs fired from the Gaza Strip fell inside the pre-1967 borders of the State of Israel.

26 March 2001 - An Israeli infant is shot in her head and killed by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron. The infant's father, who was holding her at the time, was moderately injured.

18 May 2001 - A suicide bomber kills 5 Israeli citizens and wounds 110 near the Netanya Mall.

1 June 2001 - A suicide bomber blew himself up among hundreds of Israeli teenagers waiting outside a popular nightclub at the Dolphinarium, in Tel Aviv. The blast kills 21 youths and injures 106 others.

9 August 2001 - A Palestinian suicide bomber detonates himself in the Sbarro pizzeria in downtown Jerusalem, killing 15 and wounding scores of others.

9 September 2001 - A Palestinian terrorist shot at a bus carrying teachers to school. The driver and a female teacher were killed and three additional teachers were wounded. After several hours, an Israeli Arab resident of the Galilee detonated himself at the entrance of a train station in Nahariya. Three Israelis were killed and another 80 were injured. A short time afterwards, a suicide bomber exploded in a car at Beit-Lid junction, wounding 13 Israelis.

2 October 2001 - Terrorists infiltrate into Elei-Sinai in the Gaza Strip, killing two Israeli youngsters.

4 October 2001 - Shooting attack at the central bus station in Afula: a Palestinian dressed as an IDF soldier opened fire on a bus and killed 3 civilians.

17 October 2001 - Israel Cabinet Minister Rehavam Ze'evi is murdered by terrorists belonging to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Israel issues an ultimatum to the Palestinian Authority for the arrest of those responsible.

18 October 2001 - The IDF enters the major Palestinian towns in "Area A".

28 October 2001 - A terror attack in the center of Hadera kills 4 Israeli women.

4 November 2001 - Shots fired at civilian passengers on an Israeli bus at Jerusalem's French Hill intersection, killing two teenagers.

24 November 2001 - Mortar bombs fired at Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip kill a soldier. The IDF responds the next day with strikes on Palestinian Police targets throughout the Gaza Strip.

27 November 2001 - Shots fired at civilians in the central bus station in Afula. 2 Israeli civilians were killed and 31 wounded.

29 November 2001 - A terrorist explodes himself near the "Camp 80" junction in central Israel, killing 3 civilians, seriously wounding 2 and one other lightly.

1 December 2001 - 2 terrorists and a booby-trapped car exploded in the Ben Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem. 10 Israeli civilians were killed and 183 were wounded. One youth died later from his wounds.

2 December 2001 - A terror attack on a bus in Haifa kills 15 civilians.

12 December 2001 - A terror attack on a bus traveling to Emanuel in Samaria kills 10 people and wounds 30.

25 December 2001 - A terror attack on the Jordanian border. A soldier is killed and 2 officers and 2 soldiers wounded during exchanges of fire near the border.

3 January 2002 - The interception of the "Karine A," a Palestinian ship loaded in Iran, containing approximately 50 tons of arms and ammunition intended for the Palestinian Authority.

9 January 2002 - A terror attack against the "Kerem Shalom" position in southern Israel - terrorists penetrated the position and killed 4 soldiers. The Hamas claimed responsibility.

17 January 2002 - A terrorist bursts into a Bat Mitzvah celebration held at a Hadera catering hall, shooting 6 civilians dead and wounding dozens more.

22 January 2002 - A Tanzim shooting attack in Jerusalem kills 2 women and wounds dozens of civilians.

27 January 2002 - A female suicide bomber detonates herself in Jerusalem, killing one Israeli was killed and wounding over 100.

16 February 2002 - The Hamas launches a Qassam 2 rockets into Israeli territory. The rocket lands near Kibbutz Kfar Azza, but there were no casualties.

17 February 2002 - Two Israelis killed and 29 wounded in a suicide bombing in the Yovelim Mall in Karnei Shomron.

20 February 2002 - A terrorist attack on a military position near the Ein Arik checkpoint, west of Ramallah, kills 6 soldiers and wounds an additional soldier.

3 March 2002 - An attack near the Kissufim checkpoint in southern Israel kills one soldier and wounds 4 others.

4 March 2002 - Suicide bomber explodes in the Beit Israel neighborhood of Jerusalem, killing 11.

4 March 2002 - Seven soldiers and three civilians are shot and killed by a sniper at a roadblock near Ofra in Samaria.

6 March 2002 - A terrorist opens fire at Tel Aviv's "Seafood Market" restaurant, killing three civilians. The terrorist also threw two grenades, which did not explode, and stabbed other patrons.

6 March 2002 - A suicide bomber explodes on a bus in Afula, killing one and wounding 15 others.

6 March 2002 - Shooting incident on the Tunnel Road south of Jerusalem kills an Israeli civilian.

8 March 2002 - Eighteen Israelis were wounded, 5 seriously, in a gun battle with a terrorist cell that infiltrated into Atzmona.

10 March 2002 - Two Israeli civilians are shot and killed by three Palestinians near the Netanya hotel district.

10 March 2002 - A suicide terrorist explodes himself at the entrance to Jerusalem's Moment Cafe near the Prime Minister's residence. The blast kills 11 people and wounds some 50 others.

10 March 2002 - Terrorists attack a paratroop corps encampment in the northern Jordan Valley, killing an officer and wounding three soldiers.

21 March 2002 - A suicide bomber explodes in a bus at a stop near the village of Mous, in northern Israel killing 7, including 4 civilians and three soldiers, as well as injuring 29 others.

25 March 2002 - An Israeli woman was killed from shots fired at the armored bus she was traveling in near Ateret in the West Bank.

27 March 2002 - Suicide bomber explodes himself in the midst of a Passover Seder at the Park Hotel in Netanya, killing 29 and wounding over 130 others.

29 March 2002 - Suicide bombing in Jerusalem kills two.

31 March 2002 - Suicide bomber strikes a Haifa restaurant killing 15 and wounding another 45 civilians. IDF forces enter Kalkilya.

10 April 2002 - Suicide bomber blew himself up at Yagour Junction in northern Israel, killing 8 and wounding 20 others.

12 April 2002 - A female suicide bomber blew herself up at the Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem, killing 6 and wounding 85 others.

12 April 2002 - Shooting incident at the Erez Checkpoint, killing one and wounding 2.

27 April 2002 - Three terrorists infiltrate the village of Adura in the West Bank, and begin a shooting spree. As a result 4 civilians are killed, among them a 5 year old girl.

7 May 2002 - A suicide bomber blew himself up in a club in Rishon Le'Zion killing 15 people and wounding over 40.

19 May 2002 - A suicide bomber blew himself up in a market in the city of Netanya killing three people and wounding dozens more.

22 May 2002 - A suicide bomber explodes himself in a crowded sidewalk in Rishon Le'Zion killing 2 people and wounding 33 others.

23 May 2002 - A bomb exploded against a fuel tank at the Pi Glilot fuel terminal in Hertzelia. There were no casualties.

23 May 2002 - An attempt to carry out a terror attack at 'Club 49' in northern Tel-Aviv. 3 people were lightly wounded by the blast. The car exploded after a security officer fired at it.

27 May 2002 - A suicide terror attack at the 'Em Hamoshavot' Mall in Petach Tiqva. Two Israeli citizens were killed and 53 were wounded.

28 May 2002 - A shooting terror attack towards a car near Ofra in the West Bank. One Israeli citizen was killed and another one was injured.

28 May 2002 - During the night, a Palestinian terrorist entered the community of Itamar in the West Bank and shot at students of a high school Yeshiva, killing 3 students and wounding 2.

5 June 2002 - A powerful car bomb struck a bus in the Megido Junction. As a result 17 Israelis were killed, 13 of which were soldiers. Dozens more were injured.

8 June 2002 - Two terrorists infiltrated the community of Karmei Tzur in the West Bank and opened fire towards caravans. Three civilians were killed and six were injured.

11 June 2002 - A 14 -year-old girl was killed and 15 others were wounded when a Palestinian suicide bomber set off a pipe bomb at a restaurant in Herzliya.

18 June 2002-19 people were killed and 74 injured -six seriously - in a suicide bombing on a bus in Jeruasalem. The bus, which was completely destroyed, was carrying many students on their way to school. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

19 June 2002 - Seven people were killed and 50 injured - three of them in critical condition - when a suicide bomber blew himself up at a crowded bus stop and hitchhiking post at the French Hill intersection in northern Jerusalem. The Fatah Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade claimed responsibility for the attack.

20 June 2002-Five people, among them a mother and her three children, were murdered when a terrorist infiltrated the community of Itamar in the West Bank, and began a shooting spree.

16 July 2002 - Terrorists detonated an explosive charge towards a bus traveling to Emmanuel in the West Bank. When the passengers exited the bus the terrorist began shooting towards them at close range. Nine Israelis were killed, among them small children.

17 July 2002 - A double suicide bombing near the old central bus station in Tel-Aviv killed 4 citizens, of which three were foreign workers.

31 July 2002 - An explosive charge laid in a busy cafeteria on the Mt. Scopus campus of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem kills eight people, five of them foreign students.

4 August 2002 - An explosive device explodes at the Meron Junction inside a bus travelling from Haifa to Safad. Nine people were killed, and dozens others injured.

4 August 2002 - A shooting attack at the Nablus Gate in the Old City of Jerusalem. Two people were killed, a security guard and a resident of eastern Jerusalem. Seventeen people were injured.

18 September 2002 - A policeman was killed and three people were wounded in a suicide bombing at a bus stop at the Umm al Fahm junction in northern Israel. The terrorist set the charge off early when approached by the police for questioning. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

19 September 2002 - Six people were killed and some 70 injured when a suicide bomber detonated a bomb aboard a bus on Allenby Road in Tel-Aviv. The Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

10 October 2002 - An Israeli woman was killed and some 30 other people injured when a suicide bomber, who tried to board a bus on the Geha highway near Bar-Ilan University in central Israel, blew himself up. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

21 October 2002 - 14 people were killed and some 50 were injured when a car bomb containing about 100 kilograms of explosives was detonated next to a bus traveling along Wadi Ara en route to Tel-Aviv at the Karkur junction. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

27 October 2002 - Two IDF officers and a non-commissioned officer were killed and about 20 people were injured in a suicide bombing at a gas station in Ariel.

4 November 2002 - Two people - a security guard and a teenage boy - were killed and about 70 were wounded in a suicide bombing at a shopping mall in Kfar Sava. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

10 November 2002 - A terrorist infiltrated Kibbutz Metzer in the Sharon and shot to death 5 people, among them a mother and her two young children. The terrorist managed to escape before security forces arrived on the scene. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claimed responsibility for the attack.

15 November 2002 - Armed terrorists began shooting toward an IDF force and Border police force escorting Jewish worshippers to Kiryat Arba. In the ensuing battle, 12 Israeli security personnel were killed.

21 November 2002 - Six people were killed and 43 wounded in a Palestinian terror attack on the Likud headquarters in Beit She'an.

28 November 2002 - A suicide bomber exploded within a municipal bus in Jerusalem, killing 11 people and injuring 50.

12 December 2002 - Two IDF soldiers were killed in Hebron.

20 December 2002 - A resident of the Israeli community of Netzer Hazani, in the Gaza Strip, was shot to death while traveling along the Kissufim Corridor.

27 December 2002 - Four Yeshiva students were killed and four others were injured in the Israeli community of Othniel from terrorist gunshots. In addition, six IDF soldiers were wounded in this incident. The Islamic Jihad terrorist organization claimed responsibility for the terror attack.

5 January 2003 - Two suicide bombers detonated two explosive charges near the old bus station in Tel-Aviv. 23 people were killed and over 100 were injured. Many of the casualties were foreign residents. The Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claimed responsibility for the suicide attacks.

12 January 2003 - A resident of the Israeli community of Gadish, near Afula, was shot to death by two terrorists. Six other people were injured in the incident, including two Border Policemen.

18 January 2003 - An Israeli citizen was killed and three others were wounded when Palestinian gunmen opened fire towards the IDF post they were manning near Hebron.

5 March 2003 - A suicide bomber blew himself aboard an Egged commuter bus in the Carmel neighborhood in Haifa, killing 17 Israelis and wounding dozens more. Among the victims were two IDF soldiers and school children on their way home.

30 March 2003 - Suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance to a caf? in Netanya.

24 April 2003 - Suicide bomber attempting to enter the Kfar Saba railway station, was stopped by the security guard, and blew himself up in the entrance, killing the guard and wounding 14 people.

30 April 2003 - Suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance to a pub in Tel Aviv-killing 3 and wounding 60 others.

4 May 2003 - The body of a resident of Beit Aryeh was discovered in a garage in Rosh Ha'ayin with numerous stab wounds. The suspect, the victim's boyfriend, a 21-year-old Arab resident of Kafr Qasem, is believed to have carried out the murder as part of a "loyalty test" administered by Palestinian terrorist organizations.

5 May 2003 - An Israeli driver was killed and two other passengers were seriously wounded when terrorists fired shots at their vehicle near Shvut Rachel, in Samaria.

11 May 2003 - A Givat Ze'ev resident was killed by Palestinian terrorists in a roadside ambush half a kilometer from Ofra.

17 May 2003 - A Kiryat Arba couple was killed by a suicide bomber in Hebron.

18 May 2003 - Seven people were killed and 20 wounded in a suicide bombing on Egged bus no. 6 near French Hill in Jerusalem. A second suicide bomber detonated his bomb when intercepted by police in northern Jerusalem. The terrorist was killed; no one else was injured.

19 May 2003 - Three people were killed and about 70 people were wounded in a suicide bombing at the entrance to the Amakim Mall in Afula.

5 June 2003 - Two bodies of Jerusalem residents were found near Hadassah Ein Karem Hospital in Jerusalem, brutally beaten and stabbed to death.

8 June 2003 - Four people were killed and four were wounded when Palestinian terrorists wearing IDF uniforms opened fire on an IDF outpost near the Erez checkpoint and industrial zone in the Gaza Strip.

8 June 2003 - A soldier was killed in Hebron while pursuing two Palestinian gunmen who earlier had wounded a Border Policeman on guard at the Tomb of the Patriarchs.

11 June 2003 - Seventeen people were killed and over 100 wounded in a suicide bombing on Egged bus #14A outside the Klal building on Jaffa Road in the center of Jerusalem.

12 June 2003 - A Netanya man was found shot to death in his car near Yabed in northern Samaria.

13 June 2003 - A soldier was shot to death in Jenin by a Palestinian sniper as his jeep patrol passed by.

17 June 2003 - A seven year old girl from Yemin Orde was killed and three members of her family wounded in a shooting attack near the Kibbutz Eyal junction on the Trans-Israel Highway. The terrorist fired from the outskirts of the West Bank city of Kalkilya.

19 June 2003 - A resident of Moshav Sde Trumot was killed when a suicide bomber blew up inside his grocery.

20 June 2003 - An Eli man was killed when his car was fired upon in an ambush by Palestinian terrorists near Ofra. His parents, visiting from from New York, were seriously wounded and his wife lightly injured.

26 June 2003 - A Hadera man and Bezeq employee, was killed in a shooting attack in the Israeli Arab town of Baka al-Garbiyeh.

27 June 2003 - An Israeli navy commando, was killed in an operation in Gaza to capture a Hamas cell, believed responsible for several bombings and the firing of anti-tank missiles in the Netzarim area.

30 June 2003 - A construction worker from Bulgaria was killed in a shooting attack on the Yabed bypass road in northern Samaria while driving a truck.

7 July 2003 - A 65 year old woman from Moshav Kfar Yavetz was killed in her home on and three of her grandchildren lightly wounded in a terrorist suicide bombing.

15 July 2003 - A Bat Yam resident was killed when a Palestinian armed with a long-bladed knife stabbed passersby on Tel Aviv's beachfront promenade, after a security guard prevented him from entering the Tarabin cafe and was wounded.

8 Aug 2003 - An Israel Navy commando was shot in the head and killed in an assault on a Hamas bomb factory in Nablus.

12 Aug 2003 - A Rosh Ha'ayin resident was killed by a teenaged Palestinian suicide bomber who detonated himself in the local supermarket.

12 Aug 2003 - Two people were killed by a teenaged Palestinian suicide bomber who detonated himself at a bus stop outside Ariel less than half an hour after the Rosh Ha'ayin attack.

19 Aug 2003 - Twenty-three people were killed and over 130 wounded when a Palestinian suicide bomber detonated himself on a No. 2 Egged bus in Jerusalem's Shmuel Hanavi neighborhood.

29 Aug 2003 - A Homesh resident was killed in a shooting attack while driving northeast of Ramallah. His seven month pregnant wife, sustained moderate injuries, and gave birth to a baby girl by Caesarean section.

4 Sept 2003 - A soldier was killed by a terrorist sniper in Jenin.

5 Sept 2003 - A Naval Commando was killed in a clash with armed Palestinians in Nablus. A senior Hamas bomb-maker, believed to have orchestrated several fatal suicide bombings, was also killed in the clash. Four soldiers were wounded, one seriously.

9 Sept 2003 - Eight IDF soldiers were killed and 32 people were wounded in a suicide bombing at a hitchhiking post for soldiers outside a main entrance to the Tzrifin army base and Assaf Harofeh Hospital.

9 Sept 2003 - Seven people were killed and over 50 wounded when a suicide bomber at Cafe Hillel in the German Colony neighborhood in Jerusalem.

25 Sept 2003 - A soldier was killed and six soldiers wounded in an IDF operation to arrest wanted Islamic Jihad and Hamas terrorists in the El Boureij refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip.

26 Sept 2003 - A man and baby, both of Negohot, south of Hebron, were killed during the holiday meal on the eve of Rosh Hashana when a Palestinian terrorist infiltrated the settlement and opened fire with an M-16 assault rifle after he knocked on the door of a house and the door was opened.

4 Oct 2003 - Twenty-one people were killed, including four children, and 60 wounded in a suicide bombing carried out by a female terrorist from Jenin in the Maxim restaurant in Haifa.

19 Oct 2003 - Three soldiers were killed and another soldier was seriously wounded while on patrol in Ein Yabrud, north of Ramallah, when terrorists fired on them from behind.

24 Oct 2003 - Three soldiers were killed and another two soldiers seriously wounded when terrorists infiltrated the community of Nezarim in the Gaza Strip.

Nov 3 2003 - A suicide bomber blew himself up in the West Bank village of Azun, near Kafr Qasem, when he saw Israeli security officials searching for him. One IDF soldier was lightly wounded. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claimed responsibility for the failed attack.

Dec 25 2003 - Four Israelis were killed and over 20 wounded in a suicide bombing at a bus stop at the Geha Junction, east of Tel Aviv, near Petah Tikva. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attack.

Jan 14 2004 - Four Israelis - three soldiers and one civilian - were killed and 10 wounded when a female suicide bomber detonated a bomb at the Erez Crossing in the Gaza Strip. Hamas and the Fatah Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed joint responsibility for the attack.

Jan 29 2004 - Eleven people were killed and over 50 wounded, 13 of them seriously, in a suicide bombing of an Egged bus no. 19 at the corner of Gaza and Arlozorov streets in Jerusalem. Both the Fatah-related Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 22 2004 - Eight people were killed and over 60 wounded, 11 of them school pupils, in a suicide bombing on a No. 14A Jerusalem bus near the Liberty Bell Park. The Fatah Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.

by Nordie Wed Oct 06, 2004 19:45

Right enough Benji, the only reason that Palestinians hate you all is because they're taught to in school by the bold boys. Don't worry though because your non-Nazi friends destroyed a pre-school yesterday and non-murdered 5 school boys with a tank shell last week and also have been non-murdering a pile of Palestinian school kids in seperate incidents for years so you'll probably stop them hating you by killing loads of them as, again, the only reason those children hate you all is because of the bold boy teachers who were taught in school to hate you themselves and so thats the only reason the teachers also hate you.

And you have just as perfect a right to defend yourselfs as the Nazis had to defend themselves in Lidice.

by Nordie Wed Oct 06, 2004 20:27

So Kelly, I take it you're right now typing out a list which should be three to four times as long about the Israeli non-murder machine? No? Why? Don't say it because the Israelis only target militants because even when militants target non-murdering Israeli soldiers here you count it as murdrer. How strange.

by avi15 Wed Oct 06, 2004 23:57

They're not worth it.

by Ali H. Thu Oct 07, 2004 09:44

then absent yourselves from this forum permanently. You're as welcome here as Nazis at a Bar Mitzvah. There is simply no excuse for locking people in a ghetto in 3rd world conditions, shitting on them and then murdering them when they strike back or simply try to get on with their lives as best they can. Go off and agree with each other somewhere else.

by ruairi Thu Oct 07, 2004 15:43

why can zionists(for that is what they are) not take any criticism whatsoever, whether merited or not, whether valid or not? You cannot argue with someone who rules out FACTS that don't suit them. The IRA can conceed they've made mistakes, the british army can conceed they've made mistakes but zionists cannot give an inch. They are always right, nomatter what attrocity the israeli gov. commits on their behalf. Sounds a bit like fundamentalism to me!

by ruairi Thu Oct 07, 2004 15:45

emphasis on mental. i.e. FundaMENTALism.

by ali15 Thu Oct 07, 2004 18:00

Currently, 66% of Palestinians in Gaza live on less than $2 a day - the UN-defined poverty line, and by 2007 72% of Palestinians will be living in poverty.

In 2004, an average of 45 Palestinians have died every month in fighting, and since 28 September, 82 Palestinians and five Israelis have been killed in Gaza, including 26 children. The UN estimates that an average of 120 residential buildings have been demolished each month this year by the army.

According to the UN Israel should "respect its obligations under humanitarian law by ensuring the safety of the Palestinian civilian population".

by seal Thu Oct 07, 2004 21:09

so where are their Arab brothers then-particularly their oil-rich ones?
A Palestinian is , it seems, a much more useful pawn in a camp to anti-Israeli forces.

by Ali H. Fri Oct 08, 2004 15:45

The Palestinians reject foreign interference and represent themselves and nobody else. They have diplomatic and humanitatian support from many including the EU and UN and have made a concerted effort to represent themselves as an independent nation. Their status as an independent nation would doubtless be undermined were they to be percieved as a "front" for the agendas of oil-rich nations, which they are not. As is obvious through the diplomatic efforts of Arab nations the UN sides with the Palestinian cause. The Arab nations to whom you refer also support a range of charitable organisations in Palestine including the Red Cresent, hardly standing idly by as you maintain. The Israelis on the other hand use the US through their lobby to promote their own interests and those of their allies to the detriment of all goyim, whether Arab or non. Criticism, like charity, begins at home.

by Caspian Sat Oct 09, 2004 00:57

Listen to this racist peice of shit! Don't wast your time on the goyim, Ari.
Goyim indeed. This is what God's chosen people think of the rest of us. Murdering swine!
The whole world despises Israel now.
How dare these Europeans and New Yorkers invade Palestine and set up a state consisting of only Jews. No multi-culturism for that lot. Goyim not welcome!
Bloody child murderers.
Most of the car bombs and so-called suicide attacks were done by the Zionist to keep the terror pot boiling. They don't care if a few isrealis are killed. They are doing the same thing all over Iraq. That country is crawling with Mossad agents. The latest bombings in Egypt look like a typical Mossad job. Most of the dead were in fact Egyptians.

by Tim Sat Oct 09, 2004 15:05

28 of the 33 dead in the Egyptian bombings were Israelis. Two of them were Britons.

by TheTroll Sat Oct 09, 2004 23:01

When a small fraction of the Czech population blew up the forieng invadors occupying thier homeland, Nazis respond by wipping Lidice off the map.

When a small fraction of the Palestinians occupied by murderous thieving ZIonist crusaders blow up ZIonist occupying the Palestinian's homeland, Zionists destroy towns and kill people too. Like Zionists in Palestinian lands, Nazis used the actions of French resistance fighters as a rationalization to take Vichi France too, and they used the actions of freedom fighters all over Europe as a rationalization to torture and to murder. Nazis, like ZIonist cruaders, didn't consider ending THIER offensive war of conquest and leaving thier chosen victims to gain peace. Because niether tribe wanted peace. they wanted to be murderous thieves of thier neighbor's homelands. Nazis didn't expect peace when they chose to become murderous thieves of thier neighbors lands. And neither did ZIonists.

Would anyone be so obtuse as to blame Lidice on the vanquished victims of Nazi agressions like they blame all Palestinians for the actions of a small fraction of the Palestinian population???

Zionists have no "birthright" of murderous theft of Palestinian lands, even if the Judeo-christian dominated 1947 UN appeases the ZIonist's crusade. Judeo-christians also appeased and supported the Judeo-christian crusader states. Let's hear how you think Cubans, and Haitians, and el Salvadorians, and Britts and French (who also appeased the nazi occupation of Czech lands) and Americans have ANY business giving Palestinian lands to ZIonist invadors.

by TheTroll Sun Oct 10, 2004 16:08

Native Americans scalped many a wagon train. But the brutality of the scalping of "civilians", men women and children, didn't change the facts. White invadors were still the offending party and the native americans were still responding to the extream duress of being the invador's victims and they were still defending themselves against foriegn agressions.

Like ZIonist invadors in Palestinian lands, the US governement sent general George Armstrong Custer out to pacify the natives. He did so by slaughtering whole villages. He got his.

If you look ONLY at the "civilians" being scapled, you might think Custer slaughtering natives was a just reaction. If you look at the whole picture, of who the offending party was and who was defending themselves against murderous thieving invadors, then you get a better understanding. Cetainly a more compleat understanding.

Zionists want you to only see thier children, whom they sacrificed in thier war of conquest. That way, you will not consider who is responsible for the ZIonist's bloodsoaked crusade and all the hostilities thier bloodsoaked crusade created. Zionists are 4 generations of murderous thieves who have never stopped stealing Palestinian lands (even as you read this), and who have never hesitated for a second to MURDER the Palestinians who resist the ZIonist's chosen life of crime, or the palestinians who are just in the way as defined by the ZIonist agressors.

facts is facts.

Palestine + ZIonists = Israel + dead Palestinians + Palestinian refugees

Tell us how ZIonists have thier alleged "birthright" of murderous theft of Palestinian lands before you curse Palestinians because a tiny fraction of the Palestinian population chose violence as thier responce to defending themselves from those murderous thiving ZIonist invadors. .

by John mcdermott - Remove Fianna Fail Party Sun Oct 10, 2004 17:06

Much more abuse of Zionists and the Irish Indymedia will probably be closed down by their american brothers in the F.B.I ,C.I.A.etc....

by Devil dog Sun Oct 10, 2004 17:28

When a small fraction of the Czech population blew up the forieng invadors occupying thier homeland, Nazis respond by wipping Lidice off the map.

I actually do think you believe the crap you're typing here so that's what's prompting me to reply - the fact that you clearly have no idea what prompted the liquidation of Lidice speaks volumes about your views. Oh yeah..use a spellchecker, will you.

by dissenter Sun Oct 10, 2004 17:30

There is a difference between abuse and fair criticism. But perhaps the Zionists are incapable of tolerating any dissenting voices.

by seal Mon Oct 11, 2004 14:23

Maybe it has something to do with fear of annihilation. (see 20th Century european history for further details...or for further updates perhaps an Islamist website).
You 'human rightists' ( or is that Hamas rightists) and' peace activists' can have some unusual bedfellows.

by Ali H. Mon Oct 11, 2004 17:35

as you intimate Seal, then why does Israel need 200-400 nukes. A well stocked library ought to be enough to anhilate most enemies. What you really don't like is the pangs of conscience which arise as a result of criticism making its way into your Zionist bubble. As for your assertion that a reason for the Zionist refusal of any criticism having something to do with history, are you sure it is not more driven by the belief you are the chosen people and God is on your side no matter what you do? In the latter case you are in dangerous company .

by seal Mon Oct 11, 2004 19:57

If Israeli wanted to be a nuclear aggressor then now would be the best time when they are still the only nuclear power in the mid-east wouldn’t it?

My assertion is that a People, who experienced untold persecution all throughout history, and worse of all within the last two generations, don’t feel that they could trust anyone else but themselves for their own defense and will pursue it by any means open to them.

This is, I suppose, is a form of exceptionalism but then I’d forgive them this when I read the type of crude anti-Semitism expressed in your post and moreso typical of your culture in general. This anti-Semitism I suspect, more than any real concern for human rights, is motivation for much of the opposition to Israel in the Arab world (and indeed in the West).

by mr data Mon Oct 11, 2004 21:39

To refer to Arabs as anti Semitic is a strange charge since they are by definition Semites. Semites are all people who speak Semitic languages. Arabs are included in this list. To brand all who criticise Israel as anti Semitic is lazy and counter productive ( some Jewish critics were also branded as anti Semitic and enemies of the state e.g. Norman Finkelstein)
To criticise the policies of a nation does not make you a bigot . If one was to criticise Italian policy would one be anti Catholic? The State is NOT the religion. Israel has a Muslim population of between 15/20% (depending where you source) so criticising the state policy does not make an Arab anti Semitic for saying it.
To shrug of all criticism as anti Semitic or religious hatred can not be justified. Historical suffering can not excuse modern crimes( could the native Americans kill settlers today for the suffering of past generations, could the Armenians butcher the Turks?)

by seal Tue Oct 12, 2004 00:09

“To refer to Arabs as anti Semitic is a strange charge since they are by definition Semites. Semites are all people who speak Semitic languages. Arabs are included in this list.”

So you’re basing your understanding of the realities of the middle-eastern conflict on semantics?
Okay then, for all you pendants out let’s just say ’Jew-hate’ or ‘Jew-hatred’ instead then, all right?


“To brand all who criticise Israel as anti Semitic is lazy and counter productive”

I could agree with that in general, but my comment was a direct response to ‘Ali H’‘s post which was IMO ‘anti-Semitic’ (in the anti-Jewish racist/ sectarian sense).

“Historical suffering can not excuse modern crimes”

Again I agree, but my point about Israel is her ‘crimes’ i.e. military actions, is that they deserve be seen fairly in the wider context of an existential conflict and the specific nature of the enemy she is dealing with.

“could the native Americans kill settlers today for the suffering of past generations, could the Armenians butcher the Turks?”

AS cold-blooded acts of historical ‘payback’ of course not! But Israel isn’t bombing Germany or the Ukraine for WWII or Russia for the pograms. Israeli ‘exceptionalism’ is based on a uniquely forged and bitter collective experience.-both the history of world Jewry and the current massive enmity, much of it purely sectarian/racist, they face from much of the whole Arab/Muslim world.


What must be understood about much of the Arab opposition to Israel is that unlike many of you naïve, human right and peace activists is that they are not against Israel for her policies or her Government (both of which may be legitimately criticized, indeed Israel is a democracy) - they’re against her because she IS-not for what she DOES- they’re against her BECAUSE she EXISTS.
She is therefore characterised by an uncompromising determination to survive at all costs, and that includes sweeping aside the niceties of international convention. Really who could blame her?
For Israel to forfeit her nuclear deterrent, as ‘Ali H’ would insist, in a world of increasing proliferation would be tantamount to collective suicide.

Every war that Israel has ever fought, including pre-emptive ones, have all been DEFENSIVE. One defeat would mean annihilation, think about it!

by avi15 Tue Oct 12, 2004 08:42

UR 150% right.

by Ali H. Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:18

How exactly does the possession of nuclear weapons ensure Israels survival Seal, when what it actually guarantees is the destruction of Israel should she ever decide to use them! Remember the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)? The possession of these weapons simply guarantees that others in the region will attempt to acquire such weapons, stifling the economic development which would surround Israel with trading partners rather than enemies. The mindset of Israel makes it the last bastion of the cold war and destined ultimately to economic ruin when the US stops bankrolling your economy. Your primitive belief that the end justifies the means, shows you have more in common with Al-Quaeda than anything else!

by righteous pragmatist Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:39

i hope that eventually there will be a Palestinian state run by a democratic government that allows the existence of diverse political parties, opinions and positions, civil liberties such as freedom of speech, women's equality, freedom of sexual orientation, the right to join a union, universal sufferage and separation of church and state.

But these simply do not exist in Palestine.
In fact Palestinians are trying to destroy a state that in fact espouses just these very same values- Israel.
These values are central to European and American culture. This is civilisation.

The stated goal of Palestinian terrorists (look up their websites and educate ourself) is not to create a state that includes Gaza and the West Bank but the end of the state of Israel.
This includes the explusion of the entire Jewish population of more than 6 million.
In short this means ethnic cleansing - this can only be done by deportation and murder of an entire population.

A comparison would be the plans of Republican terrorists in Northern Ireland to expell the Protestant population from Ulster won their day came.

This is pure psychosis and how you can support the Palestinian terrorists can only be explained by your anti-Semitism.

by Nordie Tue Oct 12, 2004 13:20

Proof please, rp, that republicans had plan to expel protestants from north.*

*please note that pages from extreme unionist and loyalist paramilitary websites that you visit are in danger of only satisfying the mentally deranged buffoon class.

by seal Tue Oct 12, 2004 17:26

Well Ali, you see it doesn’t really matter what I think about it. But since you have such an avowed faith in the power of persuasion it seems that the onus is on you to try to persuade the People of Israel of the folly and unacceptability, as you see it, of their Government’s stance on this issue.

After all, as the only (functioning) democracy in the Middle –East it is in their power to elect a Government who could disarm if they wished.
But since they’re a people who have had a knife at their throats for over half a century I sincerely doubt your argument is going to cut much ice with them and I must say I wouldn’t blame them.

As for ‘the ends justify the means’ as applied to Al quedea? I fail to see your logic as both their intended ENDS and their MEANS both are heinous beyond belief and belong in the realms of the insane . Nothing justifies either except perhaps to the sickest and most twisted of minds.


Over and out!

by Devil Dog Tue Oct 12, 2004 17:43

"Proof please, rp, that republicans had plan to expel protestants from north.*"

Not so much plans as actual deeds - IRA killings of Prods in border areas were explicitly designed to etnically cleanse them.

As for their plans for Unionists as a whole - that was their main problem - they refused to countenace the fact that Unioinsts ARE Unionists, thinking that deep down inside each Prod there was a United Irishmna waiting to jump out if only the Imperialist Britsh govt would go away.

by Nordie Tue Oct 12, 2004 19:30

...You chose to answer the exam question for the righteous non-terrorist and have failed. Nil points, I'm afraid.

Now I'll explain. The IRA was involved in a war with the armed Unionist and British establishment. The Protestants the IRA targeted around the border area weren't killed because of the fact that they were prods but because of the fact that they just so happened to be members of the RUC/UDR/UVF etc.etc who were killing not just republicans but uninvolved Catholics. Hardly evidence of a campaign to drive out protestants because a campagin to drive out protestants would have been targeting all protestants. You see? You may like to believe that the targeted killing of members of paramilitary forces is somehow sectarian but we all know you have some strange beliefs though we do try to tolerate them. In fact the whole sectarian thing might just have mostly (note I said 'mostly') been the other way round in the bitter North. I know that may offend the myths you grew up with and I do apologise but apart from one horrible sectarian mass murder at Kingsmills by the IRA, which was off the bat of some local terrorists (yes, murdering civilians in a war does make one a terrorist and you would do well to remember that applies to all combatants you big ole supporter of non-terrorism you) and which never happened again after the Belfast leadership went mad, I can't really recall reading about any sectarian campaign along the border by the IRA (although that’s not to say there wasn’t isolated incidents) and I definitely don't recall reading about any pogroms except in those loyalist websites that the right wingers on those board love to visit. The one's that are linked to Combat 18 and other such impartial students of history.

If the IRA were engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing around the border someone really should have told the Protestants who still live in Crossmaglen, Forkhill, Keady and so on, because it would have been awful impolite to have left them out of it.

Maybe you can take the test again and produce some evidence of republican ethnic cleansing, if you can find any.