Again monday-protests in Germany (in 225 towns!)

by until it sleeps Mon Sep 13, 2004 20:28

Germanys economy is in the crapper. This is not due to the 'evils' of capitalism, rather the opposite, excessive welfare and labour mkt restrictions. these mild current reforms will need to be combined with more far reaching ones to rejuvenate the economy. I don't understand how people who claim to represent the interests of the workers can support such massive disincentives to work. This is not to absolve the govt of blame of course, there have been some spectacular incidents of incompetence and corruption in recent years and this must be tackled as part of future reform.

Oh and those calling for protectionism can you in good conscience condone the effects of rich world tariff walls and subsidies on the 3rd world?

by poverty victim Mon Sep 13, 2004 17:20

Its a pity theLabour party Sinn Fein and the socialist' party/swp and the people working in the poverty industry in Ireland dont try something like this. The EU is moving ever more in a neo liberal direction, and the cuts in the welfare state in Germany are part of this. With these cuts will come tabloid type attacks on 'single mothers' 'spongers' etc. These diatribes are best ignored as they only appeal to the most ignorant in society, we see a few of them on this thread. The important thing is to recognise what is happening elsewhere in the EU and to resist it when it happens here, as we are certain to see more attacks on what is left of our own welfare state.

by newsforthedeaf Fri Sep 10, 2004 17:45

Direct action advocacy for individuals against eviction, termination of welfare benefits and deportation.
Ontario Coalition Against Poverty:

It was during the Rae years that OCAP first took up in a serious fashion the Direct Action Casework that has played such an important role in its development. We began bringing mass delegations into welfare offices and taking similar actions. People began to turn to us as an organization that could make a difference in their lives and act to defend families under attack. Since that time, this method of resistance has grown to include mobilizing to stop deportations, to prevent evictions, to compel employers to pay wages they owe and to stand up against the violence of cops and security companies.

In its eleven year history OCAP has shown that a poor peoples' movement can shake those in power and contribute to the building of decisive social struggle. As a militant, anti capitalist organization, we reject the notion that we have any common set of interests with those who hold economic and political power. We also reject the rituals of token protest that confine movements to the level of futile moral arguments. We fight to win and are part of a growing force in society that is ready to organize on just that basis.

Sounds like something worth globalising!
http://www.ocap.ca

by Fergus Thu Sep 09, 2004 17:33 newsforthedeaf at yahoo dot com

The article points out that 'unemployment payments'
are being reduced to the level of 'welfare benefits'.

'unemployment payments' = a persons entitlement to a govt. payment equal to that persons old pay packet.
eg you'd still be able to maintain your outgoing costs (mortage, car etc) even if you suddenly lost your job.

From what I've seen this is been scrapped not because govts. can't afford to pay
but because capitalists want to turn
public 'unemployment payments'
into a business opportunity to sell
private 'income protection' insurance.

Capitalists are publically lobbying govts. to cut social spending

At the same time capitalists are also lobbying you the consumer
through advertisements
to buy 'products' that you 'need'

In this case the 'product' is private insurance
And you 'need' it because govts [obeying the capitalists] no longer spend the public money needed to protect the people.

This is an all pervasive problem
Here's one small example.

by daniel Mon Sep 06, 2004 21:21

jeff: I don´t think it is represantive if u talk to one of 85 millions [by the way: the spelling is "scheiße" :-) ] and what u read in the mass media is not worth talking about.

john: If u have eyes to see you see that capitalism is the wrong order. I don´t have time enough to discuss with you, sorry. Capitalism is up to show us its ugly face again. u will see.

by John Mon Sep 06, 2004 18:17

ok Daniel, would you care to comment on the opportunity cost of having 3 million taking from society instead of contributing.
A 5% cut for the rich is not bankrupting the country, you didnt mention anything about the huge tax all companys pay for employing people.

by jeff Mon Sep 06, 2004 15:02

"The rich don`t pay: this is why the state does not have any money at all. And this is why the state is not able to afford to pay social subsidies to those who need them."

You just said the rich "only " pay 47% tax. I remember meeting an arsehole from Germany who, like me, was a "mature"student being subsidised by his government( and me by mine). The difference was that while I genuinly want to complete my degree and get ahead and out of the system of claiming, he was studying folklore just to pass the time!

I met him in a pub in Galway, and he was wearing a t shirt saying 'Arbeit ist scheizer', and he was going on and on about the various benefits he got. He disgusted me.

Last year I remember reading about a German who lived in Florida on a boat because the German welfare department allowed him to.

The fact that Schroder's party are centre left says something in itself. It is not like they are cutting spending in education or health. Get a grip, and stop being a bleeding heart.

by daniel Mon Sep 06, 2004 14:20

The Schroeder government made a tax-"reform".
1.Now the multinational and the german companies have the abilitiy to pay no taxes if they do not make abroad as much profit as they wanted and if they did not make as much profit as they wanted in the last few years.
2. In contrast to the past companies in Germany nowadays do not have to pay a number of taxes: e.g. almost no "Gewerbesteuer". Which means cities do have to close public swimming-pools, theatres, etc., because they gain less money per year.
3. Since about ten years the rich in germany do not have to pay the so called "Vermögenssteuer" anymore at all. This was a tax for especially rich people.
4. The Schroeder governments tax reform offered tax cuts for the well-off people: their taxes were cut down from 53% to 47%; which is 5% less taxes - while the taxes for the normal workers remain high.

The rich don`t pay: this is why the state does not have any money at all. And this is why the state is not able to afford to pay social subsidies to those who need them.

Today evening I will be on the street. With hundred thousands. Thats for sure.

by John H Mon Sep 06, 2004 13:10

Shalom, protectionism is not the answer, it never is, you need to be forward looking - you can not opt out of the world, you must live in the reality.
John, German multinational companies and otherwise most certainly do have to pay taxes and lots of them. the employee tax is among the highest in Europe - that is a major problem, the cradle to the grave social system may be popular but it is already gone. Although people who come out and say full pensions will simply not be possible have gotten death threats, this is a very difficult time, I am gaining respect for Schroder.

by T - Socialist Party Mon Sep 06, 2004 00:12 socialist at belfastsp dot freeserve dot co dot uk 02890 232962

Majority support for socialism
Today 79% of east Germans and 51% of west Germans think that Socialism is a “good idea” that was “only badly implemented” in the former Soviet Union and eastern Europe. That is the judgment after 15 years of capitalist unification. Clearly in the midst of the current determined campaign by the German ruling class to cut living standards the opposition and alienation from capitalism is growing.

These facts has not come from socialists or anti-cuts campaigners but are contained in the “2004 Data Report” published at the end of August by the government’s Federal Statistics Office in conjunction with two research institutes.
Germany is in the midst of the protests of tens of thousands against the savage cuts in unemployment pay due to be implemented next year. At the same time more and more companies, and public sector employers, are demanding that their workers work longer hours for no extra pay.
The growing anger, especially in eastern Germany, is hinted at in this official survey. After all the false promises of prosperity at the time of capitalist unification there is deep bitterness at the current average 18.5% unemployment level in the east, the lack of a future and now the sharp cuts in unemployment benefit when there is no work available. Only 39% of easterners are happy with the way in which German “democracy” currently functions, in the west the figure is 63%.
Alongside the mass protests, this survey is another indication of the possibilities that now exist in Germany for building a new workers’ party and a party with socialist policies. Recent opinion polls have shown that if the WASG initiative goes ahead with launching a new left party it could immediately receive 11% in elections. A campaigning workers’ party had really challenged capitalism and presented a genuine socialist alternative, while making clear its opposition to Stalinism, could rally mass support and challenge the capitalism system that now can only offer a future of lower living standards
Committee for a Workers' International, PO Box 3688, London, Britain, E11 1YE, Tel: ++ 44 20 8988 8760, Fax: ++ 44 20 8988 8793, [email protected]

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Sep 05, 2004 23:57

Most interesting content.

I agree with the comment that protests don't work unless people who can make change are influenced.....Let us avail of the Theme chosen Social Awareness by Fianna Fail for their 'Think Tank'.

Awareness: Yes, each individual needs this. I note from the first comment that the neo Liberalist Social Democratic Green party plans a big surprise for citizens of Germany in January 2005.

The plan is most definitely corporatist. It is called Hartz IV. The purpose is an overhaul of the social welfare system and is the greatest attack on social welfare since WW2.

Let us remember that East joined West but East had to be accommodated to become on par.....!!!!!

Now, we see in former East Germany high unemployment rates. They remain similar to Ireland in the 1980's of 18 to 20%.

Already, we hear that the number of Germans who are attending the Monday Protest meetings is increasing.

Why would they not be when social welfare for unemployment could be cut to one euro an hour and enforced. Yes one euro per hour.

This greatly alarms me; I was one of the many forced to emigrate from Ireland in the 1980's, having tried many options to create work and income in that bleak 1980's Ireland of duality of ethics.

We need awareness. The Tanaiste uses the new buzz word 'Knowledge Economy'........what does this really mean?

Remember we have inward investment due to tax incentives, corporates enter the market with an objective of profit. The time has now come and incentives planned in the 1980's/1990's are coming to a close and movement to new European locations provide options.

This is the time to be alert and ensure those who are vulnerable, without work, ill, disabled are adequately provided for, by ensuring taxation is sufficiently in place, not to be prejudiced against the vulnerable members. Humans are humans and horses are horses!!!

I always end with a quote. Before doing so I would ask people to beware of our environment......I refer to the Shell proposal and the Lough Corrib.

Betrayal Confucius (c 551-4678BC) Chinese Philosopher

'To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice'

by shalom Sun Sep 05, 2004 21:32

Capitalism is not the problem, globalization is. EU should protect its markets from countries like China in order to protect jobs. Nobody wants GDR back. Communism is dead.

by john Sun Sep 05, 2004 19:59

The protest seems to have a very strong anticapitalistic attitude - no wonder: in former GDR unemployment did not exist as well as nobody did have to sleep on the street.

The capitalistic german state has money to sponsor its armys´ actions around the globe and the multinational companies in Germany almost don´t have to pay any taxes anymore - the schroeder government almost freed them from paying taxes. At the same time the schroeder government created agenda 2010 and Hartz - laws that mean drastic welfare cuts and poorness for many.

protests in 225 towns:
http://germany.indymedia.org/2004/09/92021.shtml.

all reports on indymedia germany:
http://germany.indymedia.org/2004/08/89225.shtml

by * Sun Sep 05, 2004 16:18

"It could all turn ugly; an unratified European Constitution, stagnating economies, new dark nationalist politics and a fragmenting European Union."

by John Sun Sep 05, 2004 14:42

and the protests are growing in size, I not being funny they are growing in siye because many 'unemployed' are coming back from holidays. the opportunity cost of having 3 million people drawing money from the state is pretty much unimaginable and cutting the unemployment should be part of a concerted effort. The protests will do nothing, Germanys ageing population is a crisis and the government will have perform many more unpopular measures, this is just the start and it is going through

by shalom Sun Sep 05, 2004 13:42

All protests are meaningless unless protestors have clear agenda how government can raise enough money to pay this welfare. If state runs out of money, then understandably they cant keep on paying welfare anymore. Only solution would be to create more jobs. People should activate themselves and figure out how to start new profitable busineses instead of just yelling in the streets like idiots and waiting government to give them free money.

by www.all4all.org Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:55

I marked a ot of links in this text.

But in this edition it seems they are not marked and they can`t be clicked...
May be somebody can help to solve this problem?